Brawl+ - Official 5.0 RC1 Build is now online! (Re-Use Autoupdater, Snake bug fixed)

[FrozenHobo]

Umm.. Frozen, that's the window for TECHING, teching at 10 frames doesn't work right, I wasn't saying for the window for L-CANCELING obviously it would be lower but it would still be **** easy if it were to be based off the tech window code which currently allows you to HOLD the button to tech.

he wss only giving an example of a possible coding solution, a solution that can be heavily edited (much like every ****ing thing else we've done to this game so far). just because regular teching has a large window doesn't mean it can't be modified, assuming that solution would even be used.

 

[Yingyay]

All you people who want techs are the same people chanting Brawl+ isnt Melee 2.0. Why not let the game settle down so that maybe we can learn some new techs? O_O

 

[Machiavelli.CF]

CAN we talk about something other than lulz-canceling? Like this character specific hitstun?
...
I wanna know how this is gonna work. Maybe this will lead into a throw mod.

basicly characters will suffer from specific amounts of hitstun
wolfs is being lowered and luigi's is getting raised ect.

 

[polyopulis]

god ****ing ****it, I posted at the bottom of the page again. please someone at least read my post at the bottom of page 288 rather than ignoring it like all my bottom-of-the-page posts.
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7746727&postcount=4320

 

[Revven]

he wss only giving an example of a possible coding solution, a solution that can be heavily edited (much like every ****ing thing else we've done to this game so far). just because regular teching has a large window doesn't mean it can't be modified, assuming that solution would even be used.

I hate theorycraft as much as the next guy but, there are limits to what you can do when you hack a game. When trying to fix the teching code so you can't hold the button to tech, it caused ill effects to the game, such as being able to AD INTO a tech (yes, AD straight into a tech). That alone is a problem and I'm pretty sure there were many more things wrong with it. And from that point, if you try to fix something like that, another problem could occur. Things stack onto each other until there is no way for there to be any more problems with the code OR the code is clearly impossible to work the way we want it to. Teching window is a great example of both a code that works effectively but, trying to fix what's wrong with it is a great feat that probably would just lead to more and more problems.

I am not saying that if L-Canceling was based on the teching code it could have the same ill effects if you try to fix the "holding the button L-Cancels the move", what I am saying is that there is a possibility for that to occur and it is just not worth the time to do something like this for something so few people want when we could just implement character specific ATs (CF's moonwalking for example) instead or something intuitive like M-canceling.

Can we drop this ****ty discussion now? It irritates me to no end and leads nowhere as it is never going to be done, ever, no matter how much debate there is.

 

[Yingyay]

I hate theorycraft as much as the next guy but, there are limits to what you can do when you hack a game. When trying to fix the teching code so you can't hold the button to tech, it caused ill effects to the game, such as being able to AD INTO a tech (yes, AD straight into a tech). That alone is a problem and I'm pretty sure there were many more things wrong with it. And from that point, if you try to fix something like that, another problem could occur. Things stack onto each other until there is no way for there to be any more problems with the code OR the code is clearly impossible to work the way we want it to. Teching window is a great example of both a code that works effectively but, trying to fix what's wrong with it is a great feat that probably would just lead to more and more problems.

I am not saying that if L-Canceling was based on the teching code it could have the same ill effects if you try to fix the "holding the button L-Cancels the move", what I am saying is that there is a possibility for that to occur and it is just not worth the time to do something like this for something so few people want when we could just implement character specific ATs (CF's moonwalking for example) instead or something intuitive like M-canceling.

Can we drop this ****ty discussion now? It irritates me to no end and leads nowhere as it is never going to be done, ever, no matter how much debate there is.

Yes! Lets talk about fixing wut we got. And wut we got iz BLAZBLUE!!!

on topic. Aside from character specific hitstun, what else is being updated in the upcomming set?

 

[FrozenHobo]

I hate theorycraft as much as the next guy but, there are limits to what you can do when you hack a game. When trying to fix the teching code so you can't hold the button to tech, it caused ill effects to the game, such as being able to AD INTO a tech (yes, AD straight into a tech). That alone is a problem and I'm pretty sure there were many more things wrong with it. And from that point, if you try to fix something like that, another problem could occur. Things stack onto each other until there is no way for there to be any more problems with the code OR the code is clearly impossible to work the way we want it to. Teching window is a great example of both a code that works effectively but, trying to fix what's wrong with it is a great feat that probably would just lead to more and more problems.

I am not saying that if L-Canceling was based on the teching code it could have the same ill effects if you try to fix the "holding the button L-Cancels the move", what I am saying is that there is a possibility for that to occur and it is just not worth the time to do something like this for something so few people want when we could just implement character specific ATs (CF's moonwalking for example) instead or something intuitive like M-canceling.

Can we drop this ****ty discussion now? It irritates me to no end and leads nowhere as it is never going to be done, ever, no matter how much debate there is.

we have a guy making an entirely new engine for this game, do you really think we couldn't find a way to get it working?

and i know its going to be dropped because the people making this game are wanting a competitive game with casual controls and don't want to scare away their potential players by making it hard to get good at.

 

[Yingyay]

holy **** its back again.

ANYWAY!!! I was reading some stuff bout DJC having invici-frames. Is that being looked at?

 

[Revven]

holy **** its back again.

ANYWAY!!! I was reading some stuff bout DJC having invici-frames. Is that being looked at?

Ness DJC was dropped due to constant complaints. If it were kept, that would obviously be removed some time later.

 

[kupo15]

Don't pull out the Sakurai **** on me, you can't be that desperate.

Not desperate because I know the game is lacking in the need for practice department and I already knew that l canceling was yet again going to be denied. Being here from the beginning of the project, ever since the time around when Almas shanus cape joined, the ideals of b+ changed. Not saying they were responsible for that, just used that as a time line. It was originally about making the game more competitive, but now, its about what makes the game the easiest so everyone can pick it up and win and now the game technically is easier than vbrawl

The whole reason we're arguing against l cancel is because it doesn't add risk because everyone learns it after 2 days and you're back where you started.

This is my last post on the matter, unless the need is desperate.

Depends on what you compare it too. If you compare it too ALR, sure I guess. But if you compare it to the fact that if you never l canceled before, you are not back where you started from because you went from slow to fast because you practiced.

So... then you'd be making L-Canceling even easier by nature. As the tech window works by just HOLDING the button when you're within that 15 frame window. L-Canceling would then essentially be the same thing, you would HOLD the button near the ground. That's even worse than what you want... especially if it's to fix the whole window issue it has in the first place, people would hate it even more so because then all it's doing is making you hold the button to cancel lag... wow...

I don't understand you, ever, all you want is a button press and one that needs to be held at that. gj kupo, gj.

****, I can't understand your idiotic responses sometimes. No **** it won't be 15 frames and last I checked, teching was fixed to be a single button press. Use your brain before you make yourself look like a fool. gj smk gj

But the tech barrier doesn't need to be arbitrary, why does it have to be MLC, why can't it be individual character techs? I would agree with a lot of your points on "the game is too easy" but putting in a universal tech that everyone must learn sets the tech barrier way too early in a player's development. It should be something that is a little less absolutely mandatory or even better, as I said, character specific. That way you can start with easier characters and move up to harder characters, like starting with sheik in melee then moving to marth or fox. It also makes the characters more diverse and puts a whole lot more stuff in the game to learn.

I completely and wholeheartedly agree that there are too few techs in the game and the game isn't technically challenging enough but i think that MLC is not the best way to remedy this.

I can't see anything character specific that will make the game more technical. The l canceling already is different to each character based on style and fall speed so you could put that under a single tech is also character specific.

Something else that made melee difficult and some characters is that jumping was even faster. Its quite hard to shffl as sheik for the first time. Its so fast that I constantly full hop instead of short hop. That would nudge more technique but I think it might be too hard for the newcomers... so **** that. I remember people complaining about not making jumps as good as melee back in the day.

:o

 

[Yingyay]

Not desperate because I know the game is lacking in the need for practice department and I already knew that l canceling was yet again going to be denied. Being here from the beginning of the project, ever since the time around when Almas shanus cape joined, the ideals of b+ changed. Not saying they were responsible for that, just used that as a time line. It was originally about making the game more competitive, but now, its about what makes the game the easiest so everyone can pick it up and win.
Depends on what you compare it too. If you compare it too ALR, sure I guess. But if you compare it to the fact that if you never l canceled before, you are not back where you started from because you went from slow to fast because you practiced.

****, I can't understand your idiotic responses sometimes. No **** it won't be 15 frames and last I checked, teching was fixed to be a single button press. Use your brain before you make yourself look like a fool. gj smk gj


I can't see anything character specific that will make the game more technical. The l canceling already is different to each character based on style and fall speed so you could put that under a single tech is also character specific.

Something else that made melee difficult and some characters is that jumping was even faster. Its quite hard to shffl as sheik for the first time. Its so fast that I constantly full hop instead of short hop. That would nudge more technique but I think it might be too hard for the newcomers. I remember people complaining about not making jumps as good as melee back in the day.

See what you said might be worth some salt if you realized that sheik from melee and sheik from brawl is different. Sheik's aerials in brawl have nearly no landing lag so.....L-canceling for a Sheik+ player would be almost non-existent anyway. Like I said just splice l-canceling into your own set instead of shoving this down others throats.

 

[kupo15]

See what you said might be worth some salt if you realized that sheik from melee and sheik from brawl is different. Sheik's aerials in brawl have nearly no landing lag so.....L-canceling for a Sheik+ player would be almost non-existent anyway. Like I said just splice l-canceling into your own set instead of shoving this down others throats.

How does the sheik jump comparison have anything to do with l canceling? And splice what l cancel code? The code that pw made is not a correct l canceling code. If you compare how that one works to how melee's worked, now THAT is the definition of arbitrary tech skill (no offense to pw of course)

 

[Yingyay]

How does the sheik jump comparison have anything to do with l canceling? And splice what l cancel code? The code that pw made is not a correct l canceling code. If you compare how that one works to how melee's worked, now THAT is the definition of arbitrary tech skill (no offense to pw of course)

you remember typing this

Something else that made melee difficult and some characters is that jumping was even faster. Its quite hard to shffl as sheik for the first time. Its so fast that I constantly full hop instead of short hop. That would nudge more technique but I think it might be too hard for the newcomers... so **** that. I remember people complaining about not making jumps as good as melee back in the day.

:o

^^^^^
Short hop fast fall L-cancel is what shffl stands for. AmIrite? Now you tell me, why would you bring up jumping heights in a L-canceling argument?

 

[Revven]

****, I can't understand your idiotic responses sometimes. No **** it won't be 15 frames and last I checked, teching was fixed to be a single button press. Use your brain before you make yourself look like a fool. gj smk gj

Nope, it wasn't fixed, I can still hold the button. There are legit problems when you try make it a single button press. Way to keep up with the codes kupo.

 

[kupo15]

you remember typing this




^^^^^
Short hop fast fall L-cancel is what shffl stands for. AmIrite? Now you tell me, why would you bring up jumping heights in a L-canceling argument?

Nice, but I was only focusing on the jump part. That paragraph was separate because of the word I used to start the paragraph

Nope, it wasn't fixed, I can still hold the button. There are legit problems when you try make it a single button press. Way to keep up with the codes kupo.

There is also a punishment window to the teching code is there not? I am almost positive that was fixed. I don't remember having to hold down to tech. Regardless, don't know why you assumed I wanted 15 frames that I could hold down unless you were going out of your way to try and make a fool out of me.

 

[Revven]

There is also a punishment window to the teching code is there not? I am almost positive that was fixed. I don't remember having to hold down to tech. Regardless, don't know why you assumed I wanted 15 frames that I could hold down unless you were going out of your way to try and make a fool out of me.

You still can hold down to tech or you can press it, there is a point where if you hold down too early you miss the tech but, you can still hold to achieve the same effect as if you pressed it. And I didn't say you wanted 15 frames, I was saying that the current tech window is AT 15 frames, obviously L-canceling would be way lower but if it were to be based off the tech window code (in theory) you would also be able to hold the button to L-Cancel as that is inherently how the tech window code currently works.

 

[kupo15]

In any case, the point is it would still be a better code than the other one which is basically unplayable.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Oh yea, BTW Gecko 1.9 doesn't read my disc, when it says Reading Disc.... it fails and resets =/ anyhelp?

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

wow kupo do you realize how much you flip flop on issues

 

[Skip2MaLoo]

oh yea can spammable moves be less spammable?

 

[shanus]

Oh yea, BTW Gecko 1.9 doesn't read my disc, when it says Reading Disc.... it fails and resets =/ anyhelp?

Look for the development version of Gecko 1.9.1, it should fix your issues.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Look for the development version of Gecko 1.9.1, it should fix your issues.

Yeah when it says Reading Title..........it says Disc Erorr, and says Press B to restart.

 

[VietGeek]

Yeah when it says Reading Title..........it says Disc Erorr, and says Press B to restart.

Looks like it's time to clean your disc drive lol. Nintendo should still have disc cleaning kits, although you may have to order them online.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Yeah but i can play Melee, Sonic Advanture 1 and 2, Animal Crossing: City Folk, and vBrawl fine

 

[VietGeek]

Yeah but i can play Melee, Sonic Advanture 1 and 2, Animal Crossing: City Folk, and vBrawl fine

Huh.

Have you tried putting your Wii sideways when you try to load B+?

Also if all else fails try to learn to make your own B+ codesets into snapshots and load it via Snapshot Method.

You can then use older versions of Gecko (1.7 specifically) which are more lax in disc reading.

 

[Nybb]

We should require that everyone presses the shield button 3 times to airdodge. It would make the game deeper because you're pressing more buttons

I would just like to throw in that this is a really good point. Having to press shield 3 times within say 10 frames to airdodge is pretty much exactly the same as L cancelling. Both are just arbitrary ways to hold back noobs from doing something useful so that pros can have an advantage. The only reason why the airdodge thing is thought to be silly and manual L cancelling is not is because of the precedent set by Melee and 64.

It's undeniable that B+ is lacking in technical skill. But arbitrary things that require no thought at all are not the way to go.

There is something to consider about where people want Brawl+ to go.

Do you want Brawl+ to be able to continuously gain popularity?
Or do you want to limit the game to the small community we have right now?

The best way for Brawl+ to keep gaining more users is to remain an easy to pick up game. This means that there are no immediate barriers between players other then their knowledge of the game.

...

That said, I wouldn't mind a more technical game, but I do not want to eliminate one of the great things B+ has going for it: a game that it easy to pick up. The route I would rather go though is into character specific AT's, and perhaps more of a reward for performing them. Some already have these types of options, like I said earlier with Sheik and Luigi's crawldashing and Squirtle's shellshifting.

...

If we look into the character techs already available and actually give them an advantage when used correctly then that deepens competitive play without shutting out new players. Even better would be creating new B+ specific character techs on top of that which rewards a player who can execute them effectively and correctly. Players don't need these techs to succeed, smart play will always be able to make up for a lack of tech skill, but those who can would have a natural advantage because they would be given more available options and different rewards.

This on the other hand, is a great way to put more emphasis on the technical side of things. Things that require similar amounts of effort (on the players' part) to L cancelling, but add a lot more variety to the game. The only disagreement I could possibly see with this would be that it takes a lot more time to be implemented by the mod team, but I would say that the overall benefits would be worth it.

Yeah but i can play Melee, Sonic Advanture 1 and 2, Animal Crossing: City Folk, and vBrawl fine

Can you load other games with Gecko though? If not, try re-downloading it and re-installing, making sure you have the latest version. I've had a couple Homebrew apps randomly decide to stop working on me, but re-installing always fixed them.

 

[Shell]

You guys can keep arguing but the majority of the WBR's pretty firmly set against the re-introduction of traditional manual l-canceling.

 

[GHNeko]

We're STILL on this? FFFFFFFFFF.

Come off it guys. It's not happening. You people forget that L-Canceling was trigger sensitive in Melee, but Brawl lacks that feature. L-Canceling in Brawl would be horrendous. V:

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

Good, the WBR isn't smart then, L-canceling wouldn't work in Brawl, and it would make it dumb. Why need tech skill in this game. Its not a good idea what so ever

 

[Arkaether]

Good, the WBR isn't smart then, L-canceling wouldn't work in Brawl, and it would make it dumb. Why need tech skill in this game. Its not a good idea what so ever

I get the feeling someone's trolling. You "just happen" to have this random stranger waltz in, make a stupid, shallow, pointless remark with no evidence or backup immediately after the conclusion of an argument which has been debated over for pages and pages, who can't even utilize proper grammar, apparently doing nothing but trying to incite more argument.

And he can't even use sarcasm right. That's what really saddens me.

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

..Wow ive been around for Brawl+ since Nov 2008, get your facts straight. And no I do have evidence, last time tech skill was added to Brawl+ it sucked, and it was pointless. I played in the first Brawl+ tournament ever and got 3rd when Chibo got PA into Brawl+ in 08. It was dumb back then and I don't want it to ruin what we already have

 

[GHNeko]

Even if WBR was for L-Canceling. The fact Brawl has no analog trigger ability shuts it down point-blank.

That's it. Stop talking about it. Let it go.

I mean for ****'s sake. I figured the hardware limitation would of been brought up alot sooner. :V

 

[Arkaether]

Even if WBR was for L-Canceling. The fact Brawl has no analog trigger ability shuts it down point-blank.

That's it. Stop talking about it. Let it go.

I mean for ****'s sake. I figured the hardware limitation would of been brought up alot sooner. :V

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239282

 

[GHNeko]

Well I completely missed that thread by miles. D:

**** son.

EDIT: Editted so I dont get ***** for censor dodging. x__x

 

[Deleted member]

...? Lawl, you think l-canceling would be horrible pressing the button all the way in? Everyone I have ever known that plays Melee goes all the way in. Also, that's what she said. In fact I never even knew you could do it otherwise.

 

[Arkaether]

Good thing that that doesn't change the fact that MLC's never making it back in.

 

[GHNeko]

...? Lawl, you think l-canceling would be horrible pressing the button all the way in? Everyone I have ever known that plays Melee goes all the way in. Also, that's what she said. In fact I never even knew you could do it otherwise.

Everyone I've known to play Melee doesnt press the button in all the way.

Also, just because you press it in all the way doesnt mean much because its possible for the l-cancel to go off due to analog sensitivity. :V

 

[PanzerOceania]

regardless of l-cancelling it would be nice to have the analog presses back in the game.

 

[SketchHurricane]

So what's to look forward to in the next nightly?

 

[Yingyay]

So what's to look forward to in the next nightly?

^ Dont post anymore you got 666 posts lmao keep it like that.
And yes for the love of Hal, What are we looking forward to in the next nightly?