Brawl+ Ness (SEVENTEEN ****ETY THREE)

[Simna ibn Sind]

they dont have to be hard to escape just not so easy that they are escaped like every time....also i edited my last post...basically saying that a DI capacity increase to some degree less than originally planned might work out good

 

[shanus]

How about I post the version I made and everyone test it over the weekend?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

let's do that

 

[shanus]

Yeah and if it sucks or is too over the top, etc, we will test it for a long time so the next build has it perfect.

As the PKT1 Speed-up and PK Flash stuff would require GCT stuff, this pac I put online later will *only* have the fair change in it.

 

[thesage]

Hey guys, I think Ryko and I discovered a potential problem. A Ness that has really good timing with psi magnet can camp really hard with it. People who are slow and/or have bad range have an extremely hard time getting around it.

 

[shanus]

Hey guys, I think Ryko and I discovered a potential problem. A Ness that has really good timing with psi magnet can camp really hard with it. People who are slow and/or have bad range have an extremely hard time getting around it.

This has actually been something I have been concerned about for a long time. Using fair and retreating magnets, its a nightmare to get through.

 

[CountKaiser]

We may have to get rid of the psi magnet buff.

 

[GHNeko]

Ness is the New Pit.

 

[Rykoshet]

Here's the truth of the matter with it.

Ness is sitting in psi magnet, you're any character but link, yoshi, toon link, meta, or snake. You've effectively lost every viable approach or magnet stopping option available to you. Ike's fair requires a screw up of timing on the ness's part to get hit, and that move is about as far as it gets as fair ranges are concerned. Snake can try to get pass it with properly stripped and cooked nades to force ness to drop it but that's about it. Your option is to hit ness as he puts it up. Due to ness's mobility I doubt many if any characters can actually do that.

 

[Scufo]

Have we actually seen magnet camping in action or is this all just theorycraft?

 

[Rykoshet]

When I came up with the idea last night I made sage do it. The only time I hit him with ike's fair due to its range (right at the tip) was when he screwed up the timing. Otherwise I just kinda floated there and the move went over his head or stopped right in front of him. Faster characters, as mentioned, can just rush him in the 24 or so frames it takes to set up the situation but otherwise nah.

 

[shanus]

Have we actually seen magnet camping in action or is this all just theorycraft?

Characters with fairly disjointed movesets fair fine through it, but no projectiles or disjointed moves can be shut down fairly well with fair mixed magnet. I've been saying this for a fair amount of time lol

 

[[TSON]]

We may have to get rid of the psi magnet buff.

FINALLY.

NOBODY LISTENS TO TSON YOU KNOW :v

 

[leafgreen386]

So basically, all of ness's specials have been overbuffed at one point or another. Awesome.

 

[KOkingpin]

Give psi magnet quick start up and nothing else. With the windbox shiek and ganon have no chance of recovery to name a few.

 

[Deleted member]

...!?! Did this go unnoticed by the "WBR" entirely? What kind of balance checks do you guys even do if "senior" members didn't realize that Ness has been buffed like **** for no reason?

 

[GameSystem]

If you remove windpush on ness's down b can you remove it on pit up b as well? His is gayer because he can plank with it.

 

[KOkingpin]

I would love to see wind boxes taken out of the game all together (except Mario's Cape, Squirtle's water gun [it should do dmg] and mario's FLUDD [same as squirtle's water gun])

 

[shanus]

People realize that during windpush, if you initiate a dash during it, it cancels the momentum entirely?

Or a pivot. Etc

 

[Alphatron]

Ness is sitting in psi magnet, you're any character but link, yoshi, toon link, meta, or snake. You've effectively lost every viable approach or magnet stopping option available to you.

Samus too.

And don't completely remove the wind buff. Redo it. Reduce the AoE range a good deal, so that Ness has to put himself at some risk when using the move.

And on the subject of Ness' fair, what would purely removing the auto aim angle do nerfwise? Serious question.

Finally, we're gonna blame the PSI magnet change on Ness mains, alright guys? Even though it was a change most of them were originally against.

 

[PKNintendo]

Yeah removing the wind buff would make me a sadass panda.

I say we decrease the time Ness can exit out of his Psi magnet.
Hey Shanus did you post the new fair PAC?

 

[Alphatron]

Decreasing cooldown on a move with meh cooldown already.

 

[shanus]

Yeah removing the wind buff would make me a sadass panda.

I say we decrease the time Ness can exit out of his Psi magnet.
Hey Shanus did you post the new fair PAC?

Not yet, at work

 

[GameSystem]

If you can cancel wind push from magnet by doing a dash or pivot, then why is it a problem? Couldn't you just approach with fox trots and dash dances?

 

[Rykoshet]

Make the move give push, slightly lessened with a slightly smaller AOE, on startup and lower the lag to punishable within reason. Make it a windbox shine essentially, you'd be fine that way because the ness would have to commit to doing the move instead of just sitting there and releasing B when he sees someone pull a dylan ("you too close man!"). Hell the move would probably be perfect if you just changed when the wind showed up and nothing else.

If you can cancel wind push from magnet by doing a dash or pivot, then why is it a problem? Couldn't you just approach with fox trots and dash dances?

You approach, you get pushed, you dash to cancel it and then commit to a move. Ness, by this point, can move again and obviously isnt getting hit by whatever you decide to throw and is either fairing you for trying to make up for the distance you just canceled or moving away and setting up tent again. Wut.

 

[GameSystem]

Would DD spamming get through it or is shanus giving me false hope?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Changing PSI Magnet huh?

I have an idea...7/10 Magnet (JC able, no wind, fast startup)

also shanus where is that fair? im probably gonna have smash company today and i'd like to use the your fair

EDIT: I'm not sure I'm for changing psi magnet really....is it really THAT good?

 

[Lil'E]

Changing PSI Magnet huh?

I have an idea...7/10 Magnet (JC able, no wind, fast startup)

also shanus where is that fair? im probably gonna have smash company today and i'd like to use the your fair

EDIT: I'm not sure I'm for changing psi magnet really....is it really THAT good?

Just don't forget how horrible it was in the air.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

well....it wasnt horrible in the air.....a line of code that was supposed to be used was removed which made it slow in the air....shouldn't've been that way

but that was before PSA.....there is probably an easier way to add JC to it now

 

[Steb]

Hi Ness guys.

I have some stupid Ness videos from a few weeks ago. Not top level Ness play cause I just picked him up that day. It's mainly to show how stupid PSI magnet is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnFEBTc204M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ca9tfkaFYo

Please don't change it back. It's too funny.

 

[[TSON]]

Imma upload some wifi matches with leaf.

Cuz im gay lololo

 

[thesage]

I think this is the current psi magnet frame data.

Start up: 7
Absorbs: 8
Hits: 29 (wind effect)
Ends: 44

That means that there's 15 frames after the wind effect initially hits. I believe the wind effect lasts through all 15 frames though.

Ryko: I think we'll test it out some more cuz I may have an idea that just nullifies it (run up and shield).

Also wind effects are counterable.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Why dont we do a comparison of Ness' current PSI Magnet to Doc's Super Sheet in Melee?

 

[[TSON]]

I managed to get one vid up xD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHjVPIfrKX4

 

[Rykoshet]

I think this is the current psi magnet frame data.

Start up: 7
Absorbs: 8
Hits: 29 (wind effect)
Ends: 44

That means that there's 15 frames after the wind effect initially hits. I believe the wind effect lasts through all 15 frames though.

Ryko: I think we'll test it out some more cuz I may have an idea that just nullifies it (run up and shield).

Also wind effects are counterable.

Shielding seems to be an answer that I saw in that kr3w video but really that would be a matter of just not jumping the gun. Person runs up to you, if you see an attack you let go and they dont hit you, if they shield just wait for the shield drop and let go.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Really tho....compare this to Doc's sideB. I think we may be jumping the gun thinking about changing this.

What do you do if you run up to Doc and he uses sideB on your attack?

EDIT: i think more of the problem is that too many players arent used to how wind works and they're not used to the proper way to act after being winded.

 

[GHNeko]

Wait...Doc? As in Doc Mario? As in Doc Mario of Melee? A completely different game with different mechanics and physics?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Humor me, please.

 

[shanus]

i tend to agree with simna on this one. If you are close to shield their magnet response, you can just DC and redash it and be way close enough that they can't camp you again with it. Its really way overhyped.

 

[CountKaiser]

Funny thing is that this new magnet was all Cape's idea.

Anyway, Shanus, I have a request about fair.

Could you raise the BKB of the linking hits a good bit? I don't feel like eating an attack after landing the fair and having someone hold back and drop out of it behind me, then getting punished for having the audacity to attack someone and actually land the hit.