Brawl+ Kirby

[BRLNK88]

There is NO guaranteed 60-80 combo even counting the low 0% grabs.

Dude, no combo is "guaranteed", it all depends on the opponents DI and weight. But an opponent can't always have good DI. There are just certain chances a combo will produce certain results. For example, Kirby against DK, there's a solid chance of a 60% combo, but its not guaranteed.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Dude, no combo is "guaranteed", it all depends on the opponents DI and weight. But an opponent can't always have good DI. There are just certain chances a combo will produce certain results. For example, Kirby against DK, there's a solid chance of a 60% combo, but its not guaranteed.

Thats not true. First off, a true combo in itself means a guaranteed string of attacks. There are guaranteed combos even in vBrawl. At 0% fthrow>up-air>grab is pretty much guaranteed on most people in brawl+. Most every character has true combos. In fact, i cant think of one who doesn't.

Anyways, I support a small damage output nerf (in addition to the one's already received) but other then that i don't think anything should be changed quite yet.

 

[BRLNK88]

Thats not true. First off, a true combo in itself means a guaranteed string of attacks. There are guaranteed combos even in vBrawl. At 0% fthrow>up-air>grab is pretty much guaranteed on most people in brawl+. Most every character has true combos. In fact, i cant think of one who doesn't.

No, certain combos are more likely to work on certain characters. But do you really think the aforementioned combo would work on say... Jigglypuff?
No, there's no guaranteed string of attacks that will work every time. Even a DK with monster DI might avoid what you stated.

 

[cAm8ooo]

No, certain combos are more likely to work on certain characters. But do you really think the aforementioned combo would work on say... Jigglypuff?
No, there's no guaranteed string of attacks that will work every time. Even a DK with monster DI might avoid what you stated.

No doubt that combos are character based due to many different attributes including different weights and fall speeds among a few other factors but there are true combos on different characters. Just because a combo wont work on one character while it works 100% on another doesn't mean that isn't a true combo on that character. No amount of monster DI will get you out of a true combo performed correctly. I guaranty you that there are at least a few characters who have inescapable combos on DK. I would like to see monster DI get out of them.

 

[homsar]

cAm8ooo speaks the truth.

 

[warpd]

Discussion for Kirby just kind of died. How is his meta game looking right now?

 

[Rkey]

1. d-air:
Overall my favorite aerial and one of kirby's best. This move is great, it forces them to do somewhat of a roll (think snakes d-throw except you can't choose whether you roll right or left) and you are always guaranteed a f-smash no matter who the character is.

Are you SURE about that? Sounds a bit imba o.O

 

[IC3R]

In all honesty, I believe a Kirby+ thread revamp is in order...

...instead of getting more bump.

 

[Mew2King]

guys I would like to play brawl+ if you make Kirby better

he has trouble KOing.

F smash is obvious and not that hard to avoid, and is a lot weaker than it should be for his primary KO move. Bair is all he has, and it's not even that great. This character could use some buffing cuz there's like ~20 characters better than him right now.

make kirby better and I'll start playing this game at tourneys it'd be fun. He sucks too much right now. I want him to rock, not suck ;P

 

[HoN3Y64]

Are you SURE about that? Sounds a bit imba o.O

How the heck is that imba? >_>;

 

[matt4300]

guys I would like to play brawl+ if you make Kirby better

he has trouble KOing.

F smash is obvious and not that hard to avoid, and is a lot weaker than it should be for his primary KO move. Bair is all he has, and it's not even that great. This character could use some buffing cuz there's like ~20 characters better than him right now.

make kirby better and I'll start playing this game at tourneys it'd be fun. He sucks too much right now. I want him to rock, not suck ;P

LOL, one of the few people the backroom might actually do this for... Mostly because we need the suport of big name smashers for people to realise + isent just some stupid hack. But really??? have you played mario or link? You want kirby to be better? He downright ****S some characters. There is no way there are 20 better characters. I mean I could say the same for my mains ... Anyone can... I'm forced to deal with link the way he is. I did everything I could to make him useable in brawl+ and still am.(me and a couple other link mains are fixing his fair) but I just have to deal with the fact that he has huge weaknesses. kirby shouldnt get a free pass, and it sounds ridiculous to tell people to give him one.

 

[Isatis]

guys I would like to play brawl+ if you make Kirby better

he has trouble KOing.

F smash is obvious and not that hard to avoid, and is a lot weaker than it should be for his primary KO move. Bair is all he has, and it's not even that great. This character could use some buffing cuz there's like ~20 characters better than him right now.

make kirby better and I'll start playing this game at tourneys it'd be fun. He sucks too much right now. I want him to rock, not suck ;P

Without going into specifics, we're looking into it.

How the heck is that imba? >_>;

Keep in mind you're replying to someone who made that post 3 months ago...lol

 

[matt4300]

Without going into specifics, we're looking into it.



Keep in mind you're replying to someone who made that post 3 months ago...lol

You looking into mario as well?... because kirby is better than mario. That seems really bias.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

You looking into mario as well?... because kirby is better than mario. That seems really bias.

This is true, guys.

It says so quite clearly on the Brawl+ Tier List and Complete In-Depth Match-Up Discussion

...

>_>

 

[Alphatron]

Funny enough, he's actually right about Kirby having trouble KO'ing. He doesn't rack damage as well as DDD either. It's not as bad as melee where bair was his only good move...but he's like Mario in the sense that he simply feels as though he's lacking in comparison to other characters.

Actually proving that he needs the change would be another thing though. I wouldn't go for Kirby or Link first for that.

 

[JCaesar]

If there are 40 characters in the game and ~20 are better than Kirby, then it sounds like Kirby is balanced pretty well, no?

 

[BG3]

Matt, you are completely right. Kirby is way better off than lots of other characters. He shouldn't be getting any attention before the other half the cast at least gets looked at a little more. *Cough* Mario and Link *Cough*.

 

[PKNintendo]

guys I would like to play brawl+ if you make Kirby better

he has trouble KOing.

F smash is obvious and not that hard to avoid, and is a lot weaker than it should be for his primary KO move. Bair is all he has, and it's not even that great. This character could use some buffing cuz there's like ~20 characters better than him right now.

make kirby better and I'll start playing this game at tourneys it'd be fun. He sucks too much right now. I want him to rock, not suck ;P

I hope to god this isn't a trolling attempt.

Mew2REAKING King! Man, if you actually started playing B+ that would be ridiculously awesome.

 

[Alphatron]

I'd say Kirby is a better character than Ivysaur.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

I'd say Kirby is a better character than Ivysaur.

I would disagree. Ivy can kill before 150%.

 

[Mew2King]

no kirby is a lot worse than tons of other chars. I have used Kirby in B+ for tons of hours and Vanz easily beat my Kirby with Fox (oh btw I was ****** Vanz's EVERY character with DDD then Vanz got DDD SUPER nerfed so now he's worthless) and then I fox dittoed (I NEVER EVER played fox EVER) him and I beat him knowing NOTHING about the char, meaning fox who I don't play is way better than my kirby who I've used for tons of hours. Kirby sucks but he's the only one I like in that game for some reason. You don't have to make him better if you don't want but if you make him better (he sucks right now and Chu, the best Kirby in Brawl, wants him to be better as well) then I will start playing this game that's all I'm saying so please make him better.

 

[Veril]

Sup M2K. I was hoping I'd see you here.

Your post timing is kinda funny. We are actually toning down the nerf to Kirby's f-smash (making it roughly average in kbg between the vBrawl and 6.0 variants of the move), since it was way overnerfed given how many other changes he's suffered.

 

[BG3]

So is it still as good as it was in vBrawl?

 

[Plum]

It's going to be in between the two in terms of power.

The nerf came from the fact that Kirby had autocombos into Fsmash in previous versions. Throw tweaks and overall game changes (less hitstun) make the nerf to his killing power more or less overdone.

Also consider that stages should be getting a reduction in boundary size. So while it will be in between vBrawl and 6.0 KB values, you also have to account for tighter boundaries. That's going to improve Kirby's direct kill moves, as well as his gimp game.

 

[Veril]

That's kinda hard to answer. General mechanics changes make it better (dash-canceling, hitstun, shieldstun, etc), but it will still have lower kbg (though not as low as it currently is).

This change was agreed on a few weeks ago btw. I didn't just go, "O.o M2K I better go change that". If I must justify this with a disgusting wall of text I certainly can (please don't make me).

 

[warpd]

So how has Kirby been lately?

 

[Alphatron]

Not terrible, but kind of lackluster. He doesn't kill conventionally very well (as in, without gimps) and when he gets you to high percent, he'll have a hard time trying to kill you at all. He has no setups once that happens and bair doesn't even send at a edgeguard worthy angle, due to DI'ing up all the time. He'll have to get lucky.

Thankfully, this is already being looked to. I always found Kirby fun to play.

 

[warpd]

Please fix his grab game. It is so dumb down. He almost can't do anything with it.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

yeah, and supposedly, his f-smash has lost almost all of its kill power, I know you must get tired of hearing complaints saying "make X better, he sucks against Y, whinewhinewhine" but quite frankly, if M2K's complaints are legit, then that's the 1 thing keeping me from playing this. That and the lack of an SD card that I know how to work.

 

[Alphatron]

Kirby's problems have already been looked into. In addition to the stage boundary fixes, he should be fine in the gold set. I could help with any problems you have with an SD card though.

 

[Veril]

I already responded to this complaint like 1 page back... anyway here's excerpts from the PMs I sent M2K recently.

The f-smash nerf was overdone and is being adjusted.

Kirby's f-smash is getting switched to an average of its kbg from vBrawl and its value in 6.0. That combined with boundary reductions on many stages will mean f-smash KO% will be substantially lower in the next iteration of B+ than in the current set.

Kirby also has 3 moves with the "sakurai" knockback angle: nair, bair, and f-tilt. Since nair and f-tilt don't KO I don't see any reason to alter these. Bair can combo and WoP so its trickier deciding what to do with that move. Having a static angle of ~30° instead of the Sakurai angle would remove weird low% bair trips and improve its WoP and KO potential. But... until I've done a lot testing with that move specifically (and currently I'm testing new stage boundaries primarily) I won't know exactly how that fix will pan out.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

Im loving the activity on the character boards....

Anyway so after being assured that Kirby was going to be "fixed" and a decent character I decided I would start to play him. Im almost certain im dropping him. Wow does he suck...He has absolutilly NOTHING reliable about him. His grab game is among the worst, and it used to be great. I honestly couldn't find a single reliable combo starter, combo move, kill move, or kill move set up. Im not a bad player either, so that's not the problem. All of his moves are situational, and extremely easy to see coming. nair is completely pointless, among other things. bair is one exception, even though it's not amazing either. Brawl+...I know your all about doing absolutily nothing lately...but Kirby just seems terrible.

 

[matt4300]

Im loving the activity on the character boards....

Anyway so after being assured that Kirby was going to be "fixed" and a decent character I decided I would start to play him. Im almost certain im dropping him. Wow does he suck...He has absolutilly NOTHING reliable about him. His grab game is among the worst, and it used to be great. I honestly couldn't find a single reliable combo starter, combo move, kill move, or kill move set up. Im not a bad player either, so that's not the problem. All of his moves are situational, and extremely easy to see coming. nair is completely pointless, among other things. bair is one exception, even though it's not amazing either. Brawl+...I know your all about doing absolutily nothing lately...but Kirby just seems terrible.

Mario........

 

[GHNeko]

Im loving the activity on the character boards....

Anyway so after being assured that Kirby was going to be "fixed" and a decent character I decided I would start to play him. Im almost certain im dropping him. Wow does he suck...He has absolutilly NOTHING reliable about him. His grab game is among the worst, and it used to be great. I honestly couldn't find a single reliable combo starter, combo move, kill move, or kill move set up. Im not a bad player either, so that's not the problem. All of his moves are situational, and extremely easy to see coming. nair is completely pointless, among other things. bair is one exception, even though it's not amazing either. Brawl+...I know your all about doing absolutily nothing lately...but Kirby just seems terrible.

.....this post is so hilariously off its kinda lost the funny.

If you think Kirby is terrible...then...i just don't know...

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

.....this post is so hilariously off its kinda lost the funny.

If you think Kirby is terrible...then...i just don't know...

Whatever I can do with Kirby I can do with Metaknight 5 times better...Sorry I just don't see how Kirby can be as effective as most of the other cast. Unless you have some amazing secret about him to back up your claim that he isn't terrible, I might keep using him, but that doesn't seem likely.

@Matt4300 - Mario needs some work to, but not as much as Kirby.

 

[GHNeko]

MK is better than Kirby, sure.

But not 5x better.

Kirby is far from the worst.

 

[CountKaiser]

Well, considering that Kirby has a good kill move (fsmash), and a way of comboing into it (dair -> fsmash), he can't be as bad as you say he is.

 

[GHNeko]

Dair > recoveries. Dair > Footstool off stage.

Bair STILL walls.

Still can kirbycide. Has access to SHDL through Falco, and normal Brawl tornado through MK.

Fsmash ***** with new boundaries and still is out for 405834508355305834534 million frames.

Still has a good recovery.

Grab combos at low percents until mid percents.


Kirby is not bad. at all.

 

[RiteToRmnSilent]

bunch of situational circumstances.

Honestly if you get hit by Kirby's dair on the ground to get comboed into fsmash then give up on this game lol. Dairs so easy to see coming...I already said bair was a good move also. Kirby's too slow to really catch you offstage effectively and hit you with dair. Kirby copy abilities are completely situational along with kirbycides. His fsmash is good but yet again it's easy to see coming and hard to combo into. Almost everybody has a good recovery so that's not really some Kirby exclusive advantage. The only decent throw is dthrow and with good DI it's effectiveness is very limited and it doesn't help that it was nerfed from 6.0 to gold. So once again I will state my point that Kirby has nothing reliable about him and is much less effective then just about the whole cast. Everything about him is situational.

 

[KOkingpin]

well ill just say this B air is such a potent move it stops a lot of chars approaches. U Tilt is amazing and combos well. D tilt Trips and Leads to F Smash. F Tilt is an amazing Spacing Tool and Shield Pressure Tool.

Kirby has one of the most Dangerous off stage games. Its ridiculous to think that he is out classed by most of the cast. Anyone with a Terrible to Decent recovery gets wrecked by Kirby. That being said he does have some terrible Match ups. MK is definitely not one of them.

F Throw is a great Tech chase tool at low percentages and D throw is good for Tech chase at Medium percentages. Up throw can be used on Tricky Stages to get Fairly Low percentage Kills. B throw isn't all that useful without Terrible DI. Did I mention D air is insanely Good. Oh and Fair is a combo Machine.

God I can go on for Days about how not bad Kirby is. He is Mediocre, maybe a little better than that, but he is definitely not bad.

Dair > recoveries.

Bair STILL walls.

Fsmash ***** with new boundaries and still is out for 405834508355305834534 million frames.

Still has a good recovery.

Grab combos at low percents until mid percents.

Also I dont really see how these points are situational. They seem pretty **** valid if you ask me.