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Brawl+ Kirby

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
98
Location
Lawton, Oklahoma
To start things off, this is a WIP (obviously) so don't worry about things that arent on here yet. But anyways...

kirby has been buffed greatly thanks to brawl+ physics and is now definately high or top tier material. Most of his combos from brawl still work and some now work even better. None of his attacks have changed by buffing or nerfing except for there being slightly more end lag on his f-smash. But some of his attacks now do different things because of hitstun.

Changes from brawl to brawl+:

The most obvious change is the amount of combos kirby can pull off now while still keeping his combos from vbrawl. Kirby is actually one of those characters that hasnt really been changed that much. You'll most likely be playing him the same way you did in vbrawl but with the addition of new combos.

Kirby's ground moves:

1. The u-tilt:
The u-tilt retains its use of juggling but now does an even better job. It can now be done at around 4+ times and still lead into other attacks. This move still hits from behind kirby and its actually preferred you do so since they practically have to be on top of kirby for it to hit from the front. It leads into b-air, n-air, f-air, pretty much any air move. Overall its a great move and should be used as one of your main combo starters.

2. d-tilt:
This move is okay. It still trips and it has pretty good range and it can now be used after a dash thanks to crouch canceling. Not useful for comboing but it is good for spacing and of course the occasional trip always helps.

3. Jab (neutral A):
Still the same move but it is now harder to smash DI out of the multi-hit part and you can always mindgame people with it by stopping early and then going for a grab, tilt, smash etc. It all depends on who you're playing against and you definately shouldnt do it all the time, just once in a while to throw them off.

4. f-tilt:
It's pretty quick, and it's a fine GTFO move, thanks to decent range.

5. f-smash:
Despite the cooldown nerf on Kirby's F-Smash, it is still his best killing move, and is probably still the best F-Smash in the game. Several of Kirby's attacks can combo into this:
U-Tilt -> Dash Pivoted F-Smash (angled up)
D-Tilt trip -> F-Smash (angled down)
D-Air -> F-Smash
F-Throw -> F-Air (First one or two hits)-> F-Smash
Get creative!
It can also be used as an edgeguarding tool, thanks to No AutoSweetspot Ledges. Just charge it and aim down, if you aren't brave enough to go for the gimp (which Kirby excels at, so why wouldn't you?!).


6. u-smash:
Not the best Smash, but it still has its uses; particularly good against fastfallers and the larger characters like Bowser and Dedede. This can come out of a U-Tilt or D-Throw, depending on percentage.

7. d-smash:
Relatively useless unless you hit with his toes. And even then, it's still pretty laggy. In combination with dash-canceling (with a crouch), Kirby can use this as a form of approach, but his D-Tilt is infinitely better at doing so.

8. dash attack:

I personally like this attack, but it's relatively easy for the foe to SDI out of. I usually use this to set up a F-Air Fence of Pain or the Stairway to Heaven combo. Best used after a weak multi-hit aerial (meaning F-Air), an F-Tilt, or a D-Tilt.


Kirby's air moves:

1. d-air:
Overall my favorite aerial and one of kirby's best. This move is great, it forces them to do somewhat of a roll (think snakes d-throw except you can't choose whether you roll right or left) and you are always guaranteed a f-smash no matter who the character is. Also, on some characters you can land a grab after the d-air which leads into other combos making d-air another good combo starter. If you want you can also just do continuous d-airs since you have have control over whether they go left or right. Hitting the d-air towards the left half of your opponents character causes them to go right and hitting them on the right causes them to go left. Another great move made better because of brawl+. Use it well. It also lets you cancel momentum hitstun.

2. u-air:
Fun to use when dropping through a platform, and it's one of the best juggling aerial moves in the game, thanks to its low KB and KBG. A long string of U-Airs is referred to as "The Stairway to Heaven". At lower percents, SHFFLing it can set up for a Grab combo, another of Kirby's specialties.

3. b-air:
Has been and always will be Kirby's best aerial. It's quick and strong, and with 50% ALR, SHFFLing it makes Kirby's feet a near-impenetrable wall. Also makes a good Fence of Pain move.

4. f-air:
Does Kirby have no bad aerials? Methinks so. I probably use the F-Air more than any other aerial, simply because it combos, sets up for combos, builds a Fence of Pain, and is just an all-around great move.

5. n-air:

Since the N-Air now has to share its auto-cancelling ability with Kirby's other aerials, he doesn't seem to have much use for it anymore. It has a long duration, and the weak hit can be used to link moves together, like Grab combos (I love those ^^)


Kirby's throws:

Info will be added later.

Kirby's B moves:

Inhale(neutral B) - Used for three major purposes:
1. Obtaining useful projectiles - Putting the pressure on foes by using their own spammy moves against them. Pure genius. Kirby, thanks to his multiple jumps, can effectively create a wall of projectiles, and simply add to his ability to annoy the hell out of people;

2. Starshot Stagespiking - It's risky, situational, and not very practical...but it's still pretty cool to pull off;

3. Swallowcide - Another of Kirby's specialties. If you're at too high of a percent to risk dying to a Smash, or do you have a significant stock advantage? Suck 'em up and drop into the abyss. If they break out, gimp them and recover; if they don't, then that's a free kill on both ends.

Hammer(side B):
No Kirby main doesn't incorporate the [Aerial] Hammer into his game. Thanks to increased hitstun, this can easily be strung into, especially during a Throw or aerial combo. It's also an interesting recovery assistor; if you're recovering against a dangerous aerial foe like Metaknight or Lucas, whip out the Hammer to guard yourself. Lighter characters will not like getting smacked by this thing.

Final Cutter(up B):
Shouldn't be used for anything other than recovery or gimping against certain characters, such as Bowser or Ike. Even then, it's easier to Swallowcide gimp.

Stone(down B):
Fun edgeguarding tool on stages that have the "Shaky Brick" glitch. It's also good for preventing being edgeguarded while recovering from up high, just don't forget to time the edge sweetspot.

Combos:

1. Gonzo combo:
Still works great and you are now guaranteed a hammer after a f-throw so can do f-throw> u-air> f-throw> hammer. But still depends on the character.

2. b-throw combo (dont know what else to call it):
Pretty good and simple combo I found. Just b-throw> d-air> b-throw> d-air> etc. Thanks to what you can do with d-air now, this is possible. It Does'nt seem to work on floaty characters and it doesnt work at high percents but I will look into it more and give details.

3. D-Throw> U-Tilt x?> B-Air, U-Air, F-Air (depending on DI), especially effective against FFers.


Thats all for now. It will be updated as time goes by and as new things are discovered. Matchups and strategies will also be added along with videos. Also Gonzo has agreed to help me with this so he might be doing some of the sections.
Any feedback is welcome so please tell me when you think something should be added.
 

storm92

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 6, 2008
Messages
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SoCal
I've Uthrow'd-->Aerial Hammer'd spacies/FFers a few times at mid percents.
Its a pretty cool combo and sets up for some great edgeguards, but I'm not sure if its a combo or a string.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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Messages
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Fayetteville, GA
Kirby still has **** Grab combos :3

My personal favorite on non-FFers is: F-Throw > F-Air > F-Throw > Giant Swing (Air Side-B) > F-Air chase

On FFers/heavies you can D-Throw > U-Tilt x? > Pivot U-Smash > U-Air juggle


Has anyone tried redoing the Gonzo combo?
 

TL?

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
576
Location
Chicago, IL
Throw combos all day. Try this one at super low %s.
fthrow -> fair -> uthrow -> uptilit -> uair -> bair
 

storm92

Smash Ace
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Feb 6, 2008
Messages
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SoCal
I haven't tried in the latest versions, but before you had to jab reset the opponent for the grab after the Fthrow for the Gonzo combos.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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You cant do this at 0 on FFers%
Then I guess one could lead with F-Throw > F-Air to give about 12%. You can regrab after the F-Air and go into that D-Throw > U-Tilt........ combo.

At 30-40% on most characters, you can guarantee an aerial Hammer after an F-Throw.

I just love Kirby in this game ^_________^
 

cAm8ooo

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
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Kentucky
^^^^ yea. Ill usually go fthrow>f-air>grab>downthrow>uptilt

Kirby is one of the best characters in brawl+ no doubt. His gimping ability is just stupidly good.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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Fayetteville, GA
^^^^ yea. Ill usually go fthrow>f-air>grab>downthrow>uptilt

Kirby is one of the best characters in brawl+ no doubt. His gimping ability is just stupidly good.
HELL
YES

With no ASL, Kirby gimps well with D-Tilt and SH D-Air spikes. He can also Swallowcide and Starshot Stagespike a lot easier. So he ***** onstage and offstage. The little guy is too good (even though his F-Smash is much laggier).
 

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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Lawton, Oklahoma
you can also bthrow> dair> fsmash. works really well and since theres no stale moves you can use it without having to worry about saving fsmash as a kill move. Although at higher percents it wont work but still good as a starter combo. also, anyone here wanna help with making some sort of guide? I know its still a bit too early but we could start something.
 

xDD-Master

Smash Champion
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Sep 22, 2008
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Berlin
If Kirby swallows DDD he should be able to throw waddles instead of inhale -.-

I dont know if this is possible but it would be cool.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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If Kirby swallows DDD he should be able to throw waddles instead of inhale -.-

I dont know if this is possible but it would be cool.
Not the place to discuss this
even though that would be cool T~T

What kind of info are we missing preventing us from creating a guide to the little guy?
 

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
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Lawton, Oklahoma
Not the place to discuss this
even though that would be cool T~T

What kind of info are we missing preventing us from creating a guide to the little guy?
Just the fact that the games not officially done. But we can still make one now. I already started one but ill need help since I've never made a guide. And I know it looks really crappy. I'll get on a computer tomorrow and make everything look pretty and add info on specific moves.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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Just the fact that the games not officially done. But we can still make one now. I already started one but ill need help since I've never made a guide. And I know it looks really crappy. I'll get on a computer tomorrow and make everything look pretty and add info on specific moves.
You can PM me the rough draft and I'll edit and add as necessary, if you'd like :)

I may not get to play Brawl+ for a while, so I can't get any further knowledge for matchups that I already have (which isn't much). I'll need everyone else to do that. I can theorize on paper all day, but I need to see it work in practice. Kirby is a simple character; nothing special about him. He has few ATs, compared to most of the cast, and his strategies are basic.

Combo up and KO; this is Kirby's path...
We are his followers...
We must use his power to better our own skills...

Only then will we attain victory...






(WTF was with that?!)
 

~Gonzo~

Smash Ace
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Jul 28, 2008
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Where are we adding vids of Kirby in Brawl+?

I got 4th at Chu's Brawl+ tourney, and their should be vids up from it later on JCeaser's youtube account
 

cAm8ooo

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
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Kentucky
It's about time we get to see your brawl+ kirby gonzo :)

As you can probably tell, my vid thread got locked. We really dont have a place for vids at the moment besides i guess here. Someone like you or Mk26 needs to make a guide and video section for kirby if masterplum doesnt mind. If not i guess i can try to make one.

btw, did Chu stick with kirbz or did he go falcon again?
 

Roxas215

Smash Lord
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Dec 21, 2008
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Kirby is just stupid good. I haven't played him myself as he just don't fit my style of gameplay but i've played against a good kirby and ill admit it. Im scared of this puffball in brawl+
 

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
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Lawton, Oklahoma
oh and some of you guys should try this. bthrow> dair> bthrow> dair. just chase and grab them after the dair and you got a pretty good combo.
 

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
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Messages
98
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Lawton, Oklahoma
With humans or CPUs? DI or none? Can they break out of hitstun quickly enough?
I do it on my friend bassem6. not sure if you know who that is or not but hes a really good wario main and knows how to DI well. the times ive done this ive been able to go up to 46% but then messing up since depending on what side of them the last hit of the dair hits thats where you have to chase. but it doesnt seem to work on floaty characters like ddd because they can jump before you get the dair in. but its a pretty good combo and gives us a use for the bthrow
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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Seems like it'd be useful to B-Throw them offstage and spike with the D-Air.

Man, we really aren't getting anywhere. Kirby is just so simple :ohwell:
 

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
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Lawton, Oklahoma
Seems like it'd be useful to B-Throw them offstage and spike with the D-Air.

Man, we really aren't getting anywhere. Kirby is just so simple :ohwell:
ya he is pretty simple but its still early. just give it time and more things will be discovered. but if you use that combo more onstage you can rack up alot of damage. uggh my phones being gay ignore the discover at the end. discovered
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
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So is Brawl+ Kirby almost as good as N64 Kirby (aka God mode :p)

It sounds and looks like it. I've only played Brawl+ for like 10 minutes, and I was too busy being shocked at how easily a Ganondorf could combo me to really try stuff out myself. Plus, some moves seem to have weird properties that they didn't have in regular Brawl, like how they send the opponent at different angles.

Still, I feel like if I were to practice Brawl+ for half an hour, I would be able to utterly decimate any and every opponent that came across my path with Kirby.

Is there a justification for increasing the speed of his Fair and Dair? lol
 

MK26

Smash Master
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Jun 29, 2008
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http://www.mediafire.com/?zj2oddmz0yy for ZSS fix!
So is Brawl+ Kirby almost as good as N64 Kirby (aka God mode :p)

It sounds and looks like it. I've only played Brawl+ for like 10 minutes, and I was too busy being shocked at how easily a Ganondorf could combo me to really try stuff out myself. Plus, some moves seem to have weird properties that they didn't have in regular Brawl, like how they send the opponent at different angles.

Still, I feel like if I were to practice Brawl+ for half an hour, I would be able to utterly decimate any and every opponent that came across my path with Kirby.

Is there a justification for increasing the speed of his Fair and Dair? lol
lol they werent sped up, hitlag was decreased across the board

uhh

<3 Kirby+
 

cAm8ooo

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
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Kentucky
So is Brawl+ Kirby almost as good as N64 Kirby (aka God mode :p)

It sounds and looks like it. I've only played Brawl+ for like 10 minutes, and I was too busy being shocked at how easily a Ganondorf could combo me to really try stuff out myself. Plus, some moves seem to have weird properties that they didn't have in regular Brawl, like how they send the opponent at different angles.

Still, I feel like if I were to practice Brawl+ for half an hour, I would be able to utterly decimate any and every opponent that came across my path with Kirby.

Is there a justification for increasing the speed of his Fair and Dair? lol
Kirby is a very good character but there also other characters equal if not better then him. He is one of the top tho. I would make a guess that he is top 5, top 10 for sure. I love him.

As MK26 mentioned. Kirby didnt get a buff. What your seeing is lower hitlag, its like that for every move (just more noticeable with multihits)

Acutally. Kirby did get a nerf, his Fsmash has slightly more end lag but it doesnt really bother me. The fact that it doesnt stale makes it a even more deadly move. Probably best fsmash in the game.
 

Asdioh

Not Asidoh
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But I thought that his Dair had a faster startup? And Fair attacked faster?

Hitlag implies that you actually hit something, right? I could be hallucinating, but I thought that when I played Brawl+ for the 10 minutes that I did, that Kirby's Dair had a faster startup ._. which is what I heard somewhere so I was expecting it

This was when I was attacking in the air, not when I was attacking someone, inducing "hitlag"
 

cAm8ooo

Smash Lord
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Dec 22, 2005
Messages
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Kentucky
I checked over the total changelist again which can fount here: http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?dmwjyrt2gv0

The only Kirby specific change is the fsmash lag. There is also no talk of buffing kirby (for obvious reasons)
Except maybe more hitstun when he copies someone

So you must have just thought it was like that or possibly the person with the codeset added it themselves outside of the official set.
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
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Fayetteville, GA
To start things off, this is a WIP (obviously) so don't worry about things that arent on here yet. But anyways...

[snip snip]

Kirby's ground moves:

[more snip snip]

4. f-tilt (in progress)
It's pretty quick, and it's a fine GTFO move, thanks to decent range.

5. f-smash (in progress)
Despite the cooldown nerf on Kirby's F-Smash, it is still his best killing move, and is probably still the best F-Smash in the game. Several of Kirby's attacks can combo into this:
  1. U-Tilt -> Dash Pivoted F-Smash (angled up)
  2. D-Tilt trip -> F-Smash (angled down)
  3. D-Air -> F-Smash
  4. F-Throw -> F-Air (First one or two hits)-> F-Smash
  5. Get creative! :)
It can also be used as an edgeguarding tool, thanks to No AutoSweetspot Ledges. Just charge it and aim down, if you aren't brave enough to go for the gimp (which Kirby excels at, so why wouldn't you?!).


6. u-smash (in progress)
Not the best Smash, but it still has its uses; particularly good against fastfallers and the larger characters like Bowser and Dedede. This can come out of a U-Tilt or D-Throw, depending on percentage.

7. d-smash (in progress)
Relatively useless unless you hit with his toes. And even then, it's still pretty laggy. In combination with dash-canceling (with a crouch), Kirby can use this as a form of approach, but his D-Tilt is infinitely better at doing so.

8. dash attack (in progress)

I personally like this attack, but it's relatively easy for the foe to SDI out of. I usually use this to set up a F-Air Fence of Pain or the Stairway to Heaven combo. Best used after a weak multi-hit aerial (meaning F-Air), an F-Tilt, or a D-Tilt.

Kirby's air moves:

1. d-air:
Overall my favorite aerial and one of kirby's best. This move is great, it forces them to do somewhat of a roll (think snakes d-throw except you can't choose whether you roll right or left) and you are always guaranteed a f-smash no matter who the character is. Also, on some characters you can land a grab after the d-air which leads into other combos making d-air another good combo starter. If you want you can also just do continuous d-airs since you have have control over whether they go left or right. Hitting the d-air towards the left half of your opponents character causes them to go right and hitting them on the right causes them to go left. Another great move made better because of brawl+. Use it well.
Not to mention it helps you cancel hitstun momentum :)


2. u-air (in progress)
Fun to use when dropping through a platform, and it's one of the best juggling aerial moves in the game, thanks to its low KB and KBG. A long string of U-Airs is referred to as "The Stairway to Heaven". At lower percents, SHFFLing it can set up for a Grab combo, another of Kirby's specialties.

3. b-air (in progress)
Has been and always will be Kirby's best aerial. It's quick and strong, and with 50% ALR, SHFFLing it makes Kirby's feet a near-impenetrable wall. Also makes a good Fence of Pain move.

4. f-air (in progress)
Does Kirby have no bad aerials? Methinks so. I probably use the F-Air more than any other aerial, simply because it combos, sets up for combos, builds a Fence of Pain, and is just an all-around great move.

5. n-air (in progress)

Since the N-Air now has to share its auto-cancelling ability with Kirby's other aerials, he doesn't seem to have much use for it anymore. It has a long duration, and the weak hit can be used to link moves together, like Grab combos (I love those ^^)

Kirby's throws:

D-Throw and F-throw are for comboing, U-Throw is for killing, and B-Throw has its situational uses.

Kirby's B moves:

Inhale - Used for three major purposes:
  1. Obtaining useful projectiles - Putting the pressure on foes by using their own spammy moves against them. Pure genius. Kirby, thanks to his multiple jumps, can effectively create a wall of projectiles, and simply add to his ability to annoy the hell out of people;
  2. Starshot Stagespiking - It's risky, situational, and not very practical...but it's still pretty **** cool to pull off;
  3. Swallowcide - Another of Kirby's specialties. If you're at too high of a percent to risk dying to a Smash, or do you have a significant stock advantage? Suck 'em up and drop into the abyss. If they break out, gimp them and recover; if they don't, then that's a free kill on both ends.

Hammer - No Kirby main doesn't incorporate the [Aerial] Hammer into his game. Thanks to increased hitstun, this can easily be strung into, especially during a Throw or aerial combo. It's also an interesting recovery assistor; if you're recovering against a dangerous aerial foe like Metaknight or Lucas, whip out the Hammer to guard yourself. Lighter characters will not like getting smacked by this thing :)

Final Cutter - Shouldn't be used for anything other than recovery or gimping against certain characters, such as Bowser or Ike. Even then, it's easier to Swallowcide gimp.

Stone Drop - Fun edgeguarding tool on stages that have the "Shaky Brick" glitch. It's also good for preventing being edgeguarded while recovering from up high, just don't forget to time the edge sweetspot.


Combos:

1. Gonzo combo:
Still works great and you are now guaranteed a hammer after a f-throw so can do f-throw> u-air> f-throw> hammer. But still depends on the character.

2. b-throw combo (dont know what else to call it):
Pretty good and simple combo I found. Just b-throw> d-air> b-throw> d-air> etc. Thanks to what you can do with d-air now, this is possible. It Does'nt seem to work on floaty characters and it doesnt work at high percents but I will look into it more and give details.

3. More will be added later.
D-Throw> U-Tilt x?> B-Air, U-Air, F-Air (depending on DI), especially effective against FFers.

Thats all for now. It will be updated as time goes by and as new things are discovered. Matchups and strategies will also be added along with videos. Also Gonzo has agreed to help me with this so he might be doing some of the sections.
Any feedback is welcome so please tell me when you think something should be added.
Added stuff.
 

Masterplum

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
98
Location
Lawton, Oklahoma
thx IC3r i havnt had time the whole week to do anything else so thx for the help on those. I cant add it now though since i dont have access to a computer but i might be able to do it tomorrow.
 

Veril

Frame Savant
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Jun 20, 2008
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Kent Lakes, New York
Ah Kirby. So much fun. I'm curious as to his matchups since I might use him as a second if he counters anyone who has the advantage on Jiggs (my main).

For the purpose of this question I'm gonna ignore all the other characters I play.

Here's the people I might use a CP for: Marth!, Luigi, Ness, Zelda, MK, GW, ICs. As of now at least... does Kirby do well against them (esp Marth)?
 

IC3R

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
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Fayetteville, GA
Funny thing is: Kirby has either a slight or a strong disadvantage against all of the characters in that list.......in vBrawl.

Brawl+? Not so sure...

btw, Veril: how's that texture working for you? Does it need any tweaks?
 

Arkio

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
39
Location
Polk County, FL
Kirby is my main so naturally i have been trying different things with him and i found the dsmash is kinda cool at times due to the fact if they standing dodge the dsmash it's still waiting for them when they come out and i have been able to combo out of that, he could just be using poor DI though =/

EDIT: An interesting observation earlier is that they nerfed metaknight's tornado but not kirby's! You can fly around like crazy with it if you feel like it. Not huge or important, just interesting.

Question: Aside from changing the angle is there any other bonus to fsmashing angled up/down? I know it helps Luigi's but idk about kirby's
 
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