Brawl+ Kirby

[IC3R]

EDIT: An interesting observation earlier is that they nerfed metaknight's tornado but not kirby's! You can fly around like crazy with it if you feel like it. Not huge or important, just interesting.

Question: Aside from changing the angle is there any other bonus to fsmashing angled up/down? I know it helps Luigi's but idk about kirby's

I noticed the non-nerfed Kirbynado. Too bad it's still not as good as MK's

I think you get a small boost in horizontal knockback if you angle Kirby's F-Smash down, and a slight damage boost and a large vertical knockback if angled up. Could be bad DI though...

 

[storm92]

This is for all Kirby mains:
Nair is among our worst moves (of course, with amazing aerials we can't complain), but if we were to get a slight buff to it, what would the Kirby community want it to be?
Right now the angle is at 20, which we could change to 35 degrees to allow for better comboing, but what do you guys think?
Slight KB buff, etc.

To any mod, I'm not asking for a buff, I need the feedback of the Kirby community for changing the move for BR purposes.

 

[Wavedash Master]

Kupo's set already buffed Kirby's neutral air. Not the Plussery though.

 

[IC3R]

It'd be interesting if Kirby's N-air became more of a WTF?! move.

But he's extremely good as it is; he doesn't need any buffs.

 

[storm92]

Well, its a trade-off for another thing.

What I'm thinking of doing is making it so the KB settings put the opponent earlier into tumble, so its better for techchasing as it already has a 20' low angle. In addition to that, the first hitbox will get buffed in KB slightly so its not pathetically weak, and the start-up animation will be sped up so it comes out on frame 5 rather than 9, so that Bair and Fair aren't ALWAYS the better options over them.
This, of course, will come in exchange for a nerf in Fsmash...

 

[IC3R]

Well, its a trade-off for another thing.

What I'm thinking of doing is making it so the KB settings put the opponent earlier into tumble, so its better for techchasing as it already has a 20' low angle. In addition to that, the first hitbox will get buffed in KB slightly so its not pathetically weak, and the start-up animation will be sped up so it comes out on frame 5 rather than 9, so that Bair and Fair aren't ALWAYS the better options over them.
This, of course, will come in exchange for a nerf in Fsmash...

STAY AWAY FROM MAH FSMASH!!!!!!

Anyway, tumble tech-chasing would be an interesting use for the N-Air...

 

[AndreVeloso]

Maybe keep the angle the same, and make the move multi-hit like MK's neutral air, though nowhere near as possible.

 

[storm92]

STAY AWAY FROM MAH FSMASH!!!!!!

Anyway, tumble tech-chasing would be an interesting use for the N-Air...

Heh, as Kirby as one of my mains I know, it hurts.
But the Fsmash really is too good right now.

Yeah, I'm going to tinker with some values and see how it works out.

 

[Shining Aquas]

Quick question:

What is generally the best way to deal with abusively fast characters like Sonic and Marth...........and Pikachu?

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Since a tourney near me is playing Brawl+, I'll get my game up on Brawl+ with Kirby now, though I haven't played it in months. ☆

 

[cAm8ooo]

http://www.youtube.com/user/cAm8ooo

New kirby vs peach vids up for anyone who wants to watch

 

[MK26]

:D

<3 shanus for adding a kirby nair buff to teh latest set

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

I don't enjoy this game that much right now, but Kirby.....Kirby makes me feel powerful. After deciding to main him in B+, it only took a few matches to get to an adequate level of skill. I don't play B+ much, but I agree with what was said in this topic. Kirby is very simple to learn.

As for Kirby's Nair, I hardly use it, and when I do, I'm normally offstage. I forget that it's such a long lasting move. Any way we can speed up the animation so it ends quicker? Just a thought.

 

[storm92]

:D

<3 shanus for adding a kirby nair buff to teh latest set

It was me

But in all reality, you like it?
I tried to get it so it sends the heavies (specifically Fox/CF/Falco) into tumble at around 35%, which is a healthy percentage to start some good techchasing at.

@TUSM- Nair shouldn't be used off-stage. Dair/Bair/Fair are always better options, whether it be for simple edgeguarding or gimping with Dair. Nair has been buffed at the one thing its good at- tech chasing. Now it can actually be used some. Also, I'm planning on the start-up frames being shortened from the hitbox coming out on 9 to 5, not a cooldown speed-up. That is when we have room in the Frame Speed Mod.

 

[Revven]

Nair seemed to kill quite early, Storm, which is actually good IMO but anyway the kill % was around 120-130ish which is nice considering Bair takes a little bit longer to KO with and Fsmash got a slight KB nerf.

Overall, it's a nice move to use as a mix-up, a pretty good OOS option too btw.

 

[storm92]

Nair seemed to kill quite early, Storm, which is actually good IMO but anyway the kill % was around 120-130ish which is nice considering Bair takes a little bit longer to KO with and Fsmash got a slight KB nerf.

Overall, it's a nice move to use as a mix-up, a pretty good OOS option too btw.

Well yes, the BKB was raised a good 50 so I'd hope it does.
I'm just saying that the horrid endlag won't be fixed.
By speeding up I was hoping to make it also a better GTFO move in close range, especially OoS.

Also, we have yet to nerf the Fsmash in KB.
We still have to do that.

 

[Shiken]

i love the new nair for koing, it gets priority in some strange places compared to bairand its a nice running momentum move, good for ledge rollers too.ill even use it in a running jump off the stage for a style ko, and realize its good even when not for style, as long as you keep an eye on the ending lag.one step closer to his awesome sex kick in 64 xD

 

[Asdioh]

Is it just me, or are the people hacking Brawl+ changing WAY TOO MUCH about the game?
Seriously, I want to play an altered, improved version of the game, but I don't want it to be SO different that I feel like I'm playing a totally different game.

I mean, I haven't been able to play Brawl+ other than for like 10 minutes a month ago, but buffing his Nair? Seriously, what's the point in that? It's already a great move in regular Brawl if you know how to use it right, buffing it just seems like a pointless change made for the sake of making changes.


>=(


On a more important note, has anyone seen any cool Kirby textures lately? I've seen awesome ones like the Majora's Mask Moon and the Awesomeface Kirby, but what I really want is extremely simple to make, but I've never seen it: Purple (or Grape) Kirby!

 

[Revven]

The Nair change isn't for nothing, it's in-exchange for a weaker Fsmash (so it doesn't kill at least below 120%). The new Nair is nice to me, I think you should try it before talking about it Asdioh, esp. since you've only played Brawl+ for 10 minutes a month ago. >.>

 

[storm92]

Is it just me, or are the people hacking Brawl+ changing WAY TOO MUCH about the game?
Seriously, I want to play an altered, improved version of the game, but I don't want it to be SO different that I feel like I'm playing a totally different game.

I mean, I haven't been able to play Brawl+ other than for like 10 minutes a month ago, but buffing his Nair? Seriously, what's the point in that? It's already a great move in regular Brawl if you know how to use it right, buffing it just seems like a pointless change made for the sake of making changes.


>=(


On a more important note, has anyone seen any cool Kirby textures lately? I've seen awesome ones like the Majora's Mask Moon and the Awesomeface Kirby, but what I really want is extremely simple to make, but I've never seen it: Purple (or Grape) Kirby!

As Falco400 outlined above, we're buffing the Nair in exchange for the Fsmash nerf.
The point in it was giving it more uses, therefore giving Kirby more options in situations which equals more depth. It wasn't for the sake of making changes, it was because the move wasn't too useful when you look at Nair/Bair/Dair in B+. Not only can it tech chase better now, but can KO and as others have outlined has more uses.
Also, 10 minutes is nothing to be able to judge.

 

[H8 Making Names]

my favorite combo with kirby is: (starting from extremly low %): fthrow -> uair -> dthrow -> utilt -> uair
it works against everyone i play except the uair isnt guaranteed....

 

[Lily]

thanks for posting this plum! it was very informative. i'm excited to start practicing brawl+ with kirby! :]

 

[IC3R]

my favorite combo with kirby is: (starting from extremly low %): fthrow -> uair -> dthrow -> utilt -> uair
it works against everyone i play except the uair isnt guaranteed....

Actually, the Fair would be better used after Fthrow (instead of Uair), and it actually links into another Grab, Tilt, or Smash. You can repeat an Fthrow -> Fair chain and heavies and FFers quite easily.


Anyways, I found another combo, though it's hard as hell to pull off:

Whilst on the ledge, you light drop and use Final Cutter. If you hit with only the first two strikes (the up and down) then regrab the ledge, the opponent will be sent up and behind you, allowing for any easy ledgehopped Bair or Air Hammer.​

 

[Lord Viper]

☆ Strangely I don't usually pick Kirby in Brawl+ because I feel like I could beat anyone if I did, I mean I three stocked someone that used Meta Knight main without even trying with Kirby. XD ☆

☆ But all and all, I love using the Final Cutter lock when I'm near the edge when people don't tech, it's fun. =3 ☆

 

[H8 Making Names]

Actually, the Fair would be better used after Fthrow (instead of Uair), and it actually links into another Grab, Tilt, or Smash. You can repeat an Fthrow -> Fair chain and heavies and FFers quite easily.


Anyways, I found another combo, though it's hard as hell to pull off:

Whilst on the ledge, you light drop and use Final Cutter. If you hit with only the first two strikes (the up and down) then regrab the ledge, the opponent will be sent up and behind you, allowing for any easy ledgehopped Bair or Air Hammer.​

:o :o :o

IC3R, u r now my fav person on smashboards xD
thanks for the info

 

[cAm8ooo]

☆ Strangely I don't usually pick Kirby in Brawl+ because I feel like I could beat anyone if I did, I mean I three stocked someone that used Meta Knight main without even trying with Kirby. XD ☆

☆ But all and all, I love using the Final Cutter lock when I'm near the edge when people don't tech, it's fun. =3 ☆

That just means your better then your opponents cuz while kirby is very good there are several characters on par or better then him. Tell them to step it up.

 

[metaXzero]

Went to my first tourney as Kirby.
......Melee, Brawl, or Brawl+, Marth is gay. >

 

[metaXzero]

Umm... yeah. So any tips on Kirby vs. Marth?

 

[Shining Aquas]

Against Marth, I would try to find ways to bait UpB and punish. Granted, smart Marth players will take advantage of Kirby's lack of air speed and counter with Fair's instead. You then counter THAT by jump-hovering right out of range until Marth runs out of jumps (and you don't) in which case you fast fall and intercept. He then COUNTERS THAT with UpB which is pretty **** nice at that close of range and is faster than most any move you can throw. You then COUNTERATTACK THAT (gasp) with an air dodge and wait for him to land so you can do the Grab-->Fair loop (or just Fsmash if he is high enough).

There, I just won an entire round for you.

Seriously though, be careful of his range, try to bait moves with lots of move lag, and keep in mind that while his air game is powerful yours is more flexible.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Kirby against anyone with good range is usually a tough issue. You're greatest tools here will be Fsmash and grabs. Throwing Bairs is not going to work too well, especially on Marth's who are baiting you. Do not worry if the Marth keeps fairing, just be wary of his tippers and aim your Fsmash upwards when you think you've laid a pattern on him.

Edgehog Marth when possible, and be wary of stage spiking when going for gimps.

 

[MK26]

Nair >>> marth up-b

That is how you beat Marth.

Hell, Nair beats every vertical recovery in the game except G&W's...and in +, it can kill!

 

[BRLNK88]

Does anyone else wish the start-up lag on Kirby's dair was removed?
In 64 it was so easy to beast with it with zero start-up lag combined with Z-cancel, now I'm never sure EXACTLY when to use it.
That kinda throws my whole Kirby game into conflict from time to time. Kirby sucked in Melee, so I have to transition from 64 to Brawl + style. I honestly wish they disposed of his spinny ball thing, and kept his awesome sex kick. But his bair is still God.

 

[Roxas215]

So i played with kirby today for the 1st time and was pwning everyone. I dont even know how to play kirby. Everything he has combos into everything else. It makes no sense. I felt like i was cheating. He can combo out of gonzo combo lol. I can only imagine what a skilled kirby is capable of. He is by far one of the chars i never want to face in tourney. I would rather face fox and marth over kirby. He really needs to be toned down.

 

[GuruKid]

A lot of talk about Kirby being OP... I have almost no experience with that character, so I can't say anything at all.. I doubt he's MetaKnight status but... he's really that good?

 

[Roxas215]

A lot of talk about Kirby being OP... I have almost no experience with that character, so I can't say anything at all.. I doubt he's MetaKnight status but... he's really that good?

I dont think anyone is mk status but imo yea kirby is ridiculous. Lucky for me and u we play charizard. I think zard is a nice semi counter for kirby. He does a nice job of staying out of kirby zones. However one small mistake and u looking at a 60-80% combo. Makes no sense. lol

 

[The Phazon Assassin]

I dont think anyone is mk status but imo yea kirby is ridiculous. Lucky for me and u we play charizard. I think zard is a nice semi counter for kirby. He does a nice job of staying out of kirby zones. However one small mistake and u looking at a 60-80% combo. Makes no sense. lol

I want to disprove that. I realized I was doing the wrong combos the last time we fought. That was so long ago though, I barely play it now.

 

[metaXzero]

So i played with kirby today for the 1st time and was pwning everyone. I dont even know how to play kirby. Everything he has combos into everything else. It makes no sense. I felt like i was cheating. He can combo out of gonzo combo lol. I can only imagine what a skilled kirby is capable of. He is by far one of the chars i never want to face in tourney. I would rather face fox and marth over kirby. He really needs to be toned down.

For me, he's no worst to play against then that girly swordsman. Then again, I play Kirby. ._.

Don't know how'd you'd tone him down without ruining something though.

 

[Roxas215]

I want to disprove that. I realized I was doing the wrong combos the last time we fought. That was so long ago though, I barely play it now.

When i said that the matches with you was the farthest thing on my mind. I played 2 good kirby's so far and i stand by zard being able to stay out of kirby's zones. The kirby/zard matchup is a game of baiting. Kirby's mindset is that he knows he is faster and can combo u so he will rush. Zard can bait with flamethrower and his excellent grab range. Also since kirby is light zard can kill him around the 90-100% mark.


However like i said one mess up and kirby is going to ****. I don't think zard is a be all counter against kirby. I just think he does better against him then most of the cast.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Zard is pretty good against him. His Fair out ranges and spaces kirby pretty well. He has decent throws against him and can kill him pretty well. Not the worst match up tho. I would still give that to Marth. Marth ***** the poor pink fella.

Where i disagree with you though is the combo comment. Other then very low grab combos kirby doesnt have any massive chains. U-air's combo into different things and the last hit of F-air can combo into something. Once you get to mid percents Kirby really doesnt have any combos other then an occasional two hitter like mentioned above. There is NO guaranteed 60-80 combo even counting the low 0% grabs.

 

[matt4300]

For me, he's no worst to play against then that girly swordsman. Then again, I play Kirby. ._.

Don't know how'd you'd tone him down without ruining something though.

I stand by what everyone is saying about kirby needing to be toned down. As of right now and this latest build I can think of 5 or so chars that REALLY need toneing down and about 8 all together that do, kirby is in the top 3.
Now I can't say for sure how to fix kirby without ruining him, or something cool about him but there are a few sure fire ways to tone down a char without hurting his/her ATs

1. Decrease damage output on heaviest combo moves, and add kb to compensate for the decrease that the lower damage will bring. Don't want to make them any more crazy than they are (uair/utilt/grabs/dair/fair/bair ect)
2. Decrease kb on kill moves (bair/fsmash/hammer/usmash/BAIR/FSMASH @_@)

There are other ways as we all know but these wont hurt your ATs or combos just the ability to rack massive damage and kill low with insta smash or expoding red poke sticks!!! hes already a great gimp char.

But, then again the Plussery may think hes perfectly balanced and not change anything, or give into death threats and not change him ... I wouldnet know.Seriously though, if he really becomes a problem I'm sure they will address it.