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Brawl is so good
- Thread starter Blatt Blvd
- Start date
bladeofapollo
Smash Ace
@ 7:20 red mk had really good rhythm
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
Your main problem here is that you are comparing "hard to beat" with "utterly unapproachable." You're right: A campy fox IS hard to beat on any stage. However, Fox IN GENERAL is hard to beat on basically any stage. He's a **** good character, and one fast mother ****er. However, as annoying as he is to fight when he is laser spamming and running away, it is absolutely incomparable to a Metaknight camping the edge.
When Fox is running around being gay, you can at least corner him at the edge of the stage, at which point he is to either: a) try to get past you or b) jump to the ledge and try and get by you after that. If he chooses B, you have in a set location where he eventually will have to try to get off. If he tries stalling with firefox or just dropping off and then second jumping, you can force him off by wave dashing backward onto the edge. Or in the case of the firefox, hit him in between the start of the firefox and the edge-cancel.
If he tries to get past you he has to roll by you or jump past you, both of which are punishable for obvious reasons. Even on a stage like Corneria, which is borderline-bannable anyway, you can corner Fox in this way.
With the Metaknight ledge stall, the edge, what would be the "corner" against Fox is actually the safe zone! Without wavedashing you cannot steal the edge in between their refreshes. And because you can auto-sweetspot from so low, they never have to have any part of them reach above the edge. They can just drop off and then second-jump and snap right to the ledge. That happens so fast that you absolutely no time to jump from the edge and try to attack in the split second they are vulnerable. And if you're already out there waiting, you are at a disadvantage because you're hanging out over open space and they are between you and the stage. Metaknight's hitboxes (uair and whatever) make it so no attacks from the actual stage will hit him: they hit THROUGH the bottom of the stage! It is a position that unapproachable, it's completely different from a Fox camping.
Also, it is not like Wall-bombing in melee. While wall-bombing you are extremely vulnerable.
Dreadz18x
Smash Ace
competitive camping.
Redhalberd im disappointed in you.
Redhalberd im disappointed in you.
AfroQT
Smash Master
lol MK camping is super easy to deal with...
Atleast for snake.
I can deal with it on wario as well.
Maybe not on norfair tho...
and im refering to planking
Its easy for people that dont play brawl/arent good at it to say "THIS TACTIC IS UNBEATABLE"
Redhal doesnt beat any of FL's top players in tourney
None of those tactics win anywhere actually...
Wonder why
Its super easy to look at a vid where you see stupid **** and say WOW THATS ALL OF BRAWL
If i wanted to i bet i could find a video of drephen doing jack **** and winning a match in melee and say "OH WOW SHIEK IS DUMB MELEE IS BAD" but we all know how stupid that would be.
Essentially im saying judging off 1 vid is ****in ********...all the poeple that posted against redhal's vid were pretty much pointless posts, cuz in the end even tho that tactic is ****in gay, its beatable...easily..i beat it every both the chars i play (wario and snake) with relative ease....
Atleast for snake.
I can deal with it on wario as well.
Maybe not on norfair tho...
and im refering to planking
Its easy for people that dont play brawl/arent good at it to say "THIS TACTIC IS UNBEATABLE"
Redhal doesnt beat any of FL's top players in tourney
None of those tactics win anywhere actually...
Wonder why
Its super easy to look at a vid where you see stupid **** and say WOW THATS ALL OF BRAWL
If i wanted to i bet i could find a video of drephen doing jack **** and winning a match in melee and say "OH WOW SHIEK IS DUMB MELEE IS BAD" but we all know how stupid that would be.
Essentially im saying judging off 1 vid is ****in ********...all the poeple that posted against redhal's vid were pretty much pointless posts, cuz in the end even tho that tactic is ****in gay, its beatable...easily..i beat it every both the chars i play (wario and snake) with relative ease....
Im my defense I've only been to one tourney, and I've never played gay against a top player....but w/e.
But what I did on Norfair wasn't that gay, because Gmoney could've just as easily beaten me. Norfair's multiple edges make it less likely that I can set up an easy gimp in comparison to planking on a different stage. Even a character like Falco could repetitively lazer and hit a MK planking on Norfair.
Norfair should be banned, but not even because of its plankability IMO.
AfroQT
Smash Master
wow way to focus on the part of the post that was the least important.
harriettheguy
Smash Lord
someone teach me how to do it with samus
press side b
Planking is gay. People who think it's a valid tactic are honorless scrubs and winning in a video game tournament isn't important enough to sacrifice your decency as a person.
Get your **** priorities straight.
T3h Albino
Smash Master
im a brawl player i have no priorities
GodMeowMix
Smash Ace
It being a valid tactic or not is a matter of opinion, when you play in tournament being a decent person doesn't matter once the timer for your match starts. If you play tournament matches to make friends thats cool, but save that for after your match. You make it sound like were going to be ****ed to hell for using that tactic.
Thanks for proving you're an honorless scrub.
GodMeowMix
Smash Ace
Yeah, because I use that method when I play tournament, I just witness it a lot and accept it for what it is. I just don't cry about it like other people do whenever it happens to them.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Honor has no place in competition, and GMM is not an "honorless scrub" for his viewpoint.
leafgreen386
Dirty camper
I hate brawl, but even I think you're taking this over the top by calling people who plank "honor-less scrubs." The people who plank do so because they want to win. There is no "right" or "wrong" when it comes to methods to win, provided it's allowed in the ruleset. If it works, it works. People will thus (ab)use it. Do I advocate planking? Frick no. Do I respect brawl as a game? Frick no. Do I think a person doing everything to win that they can makes them an honor-less scrub? No. No, I do not. If someone wants to play a shallow game for the sole purpose of winning money, then I don't care. Let them. It's their prerogative.
Aahahaha, honor has no place in competition?
Honor has EVERY place in competition. Honor has no place in survival.
Moron twit kids, learn life better.
Master Raven
Smash Master
GodMeowMix
Smash Ace
I knew you were evil, Master Raven!
sadly hes right
unless you play captain falcon
then its honorable to plank a metaknight
and curse sakurai the whole time
Like cheating?
It only matters if you get caught right?
Like steroids in baseball. Everyone knows they do it. They're not supposed do it. All attempts to stop them from doing it fail.
So should steroids in baseball just be condoned as taking every advantage in competition?
The fact that smash isn't a commerical competitive product means it's up to us to determine what rules we want to apply to keep the game fair and honorable. The fact that most people think anything bloody goes with the exception of a couple things is baffling to commen sense. We should take advantage of it.
Frames
DI
comparing dumb mk **** to baseball steroids is stupid with mk ur method is simply a byproduct of the game steroids are an outside factor you would be better off comparing cheat codes to steroids since they involve oustide factors not provided directly by the game developer
T3h Albino
Smash Master
and you do it in basketball too =]
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
Dude, it's a tournament, the goal is to win. Honor has absolutely nothing to do with it. ****, you OWE it to your opponent to do absolutely anything [legal] you can to win. Otherwise you're just being condescending, implying that you don't need to try your hardest to beat them. That is what's really dishonorable, even if it does happen to be true.
Also, that steroids is analogy is way off. Frames's cheat codes analogy is much closer.
Master Raven
Smash Master
Since you actually sound serious I'm going to give you my opinion regarding things such as planking, infinites and etc.
I think planking is a stupidly gay tactic that can be borderline broken, but it's hard to define at this moment what exactly consitutes planking, that's why you almost never hear about anyone actually getting DQed from credible tournies because no one knows exactly what defines it. I also think infinites which you absolutely cannot do anything about to stop such as DDD's and Yoshi's infinite on Wario for example should be banned, but it has nothing to do with honor, it has to do with that I think they're retardedly broken tactics that unfairly imbalance an already terribly balanced game.
None of that **** is cheating though as long as the TOs allow it, as much as I dislike those tactics. Cheating in Smash is lying about winning a set you lost, or telling some poor ignorant sap who mains MK that the damage ratio should be set to .08 so DDD can CG him, or just outright breaking any of the rules within tourney rule setting. It's entirely up to the TOs to determine whether those things are banned or not since not based on how the things are balanced out in the end.
As for honor, when I say honor has no place in competition, I'm talking about things like not abusing (non-infinite) CGs, spamming, camping, tech-chasing to death, running the timer out etc. None of those are unfair and they're very much avoidable. Do you even go to tournies? Most credible people don't complain about that ****.
Blatt Blvd
Smash Ace
lol @ honor.
"honor" is the scrubs excuse for losing a match or not wanting to practice a certain good("gay") tactic.
gtfo of my thread you fvcking homo lariet
and if you still think you're right after every single member of this community says you're wrong, then yes, you're right.
"honor" is the scrubs excuse for losing a match or not wanting to practice a certain good("gay") tactic.
gtfo of my thread you fvcking homo lariet
and if you still think you're right after every single member of this community says you're wrong, then yes, you're right.
I could go into a church and say the bible is full of crap.
I'm pretty sure they'd all disagree with me. Doesn't mean it's not full of crap.
Standing up against the masses when their view point is flawed is important.
And the goal to win is flawed. The goal is to compete. Winning is just a byproduct of whoever happens to be the best.
And I don't think it requires much effort to plank. Why? Do you have to practice planking? makes you pretty pro.
@Raven. I was half trolling, half being serious. It's it's not illegal, do it. But I'd never sink to such levels to win. Winning is far less important then dignity.
This is how serious I am about honor. Loser finals of the tournament.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BLzObdaC0U&feature=channel_page
I walked away feeling quite good.
Blatt Blvd
Smash Ace
this "honor" crap, like i said, is just your excuse for being complete trash.
as soon as someone who speaks of honor(and other bull ****) wins a tourney, then u can talk.
until then, goto imascrub.com
cause literally, youre the definition of the word
theres nothing wrong with doing whatever it takes to win.
unless you use akuma in st
as soon as someone who speaks of honor(and other bull ****) wins a tourney, then u can talk.
until then, goto imascrub.com
cause literally, youre the definition of the word
theres nothing wrong with doing whatever it takes to win.
unless you use akuma in st
Hah, Akuma isn't hard banned. Why not use him. He's only soft banned afterall. He's still technically legal.
What makes using him any less different.
Oh, because it's an extream that YOU understand.
All you pitiful kids need to learn there are far more important things in life then video game tournaments and the results of them.
kackamee
Smash Master
Way to stop planking: Set a limit to how many times a person can grab a ledge. They did it in Japan, and they can do it here. And if that's what defines honor in smash, then I must be pretty full of it. I recall a time when this Lucario player switched to MK on me after I beat him once in the losers bracket of a tourney (I main IC's so this matchup is especcially hard for me) We were both down to our last stocks and I had a precent advantage, the clock was at 40 seconds or so. So, he tornado'd me into about 78% where he had 75% and he stalled the clock out. He won in the end and when I said something, the TO's said that I didn't call one of them to watch and see if I could get the win for his stalling. I left pretty upset because I am pretty strong felt on the "honor" subjuct myself and I felt that I deserved that win.
I don't really get why planking is really all that serious of an issue. I've only came across it a couple of times, but it really doesn't seem that hard to get across. I do belive it should be limited however due to you being able to stall out a match with an advantage for an obscene amount of time
Master Raven
Smash Master
Lareit, you're taking this way too seriously.
It's a video game. There's no harm done to being stupidly gay. I don't even know why you're arguing with us about this since you don't really care that much about tournaments to the point where you're going to SD when someone's on their last stock just to give them a chance. You'll never progress anywhere in tournies with that attitude, and don't compare the competitive mindset in video games to real life, that is far different.
It's a video game. There's no harm done to being stupidly gay. I don't even know why you're arguing with us about this since you don't really care that much about tournaments to the point where you're going to SD when someone's on their last stock just to give them a chance. You'll never progress anywhere in tournies with that attitude, and don't compare the competitive mindset in video games to real life, that is far different.
Raistlin
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Aug 28, 2006
- Messages
- 1,215
I'm sorry, but if someone gets killed by a stage THEY picked, and you feel like it's the "honorable" thing to do to kill yourself to make it even, you are an idiot, plain and simple. He picked the stage specifically because it could do gay **** like that. You owe him nothing. Suicides are a part of the game.
You're not honorable, you are just dumb.
If you can't be honorable when it doesn't count. It's even harder to be such when it does.
I am also quite bored and psuedo trolling passes the time.
And Raist
I did that to give him a chance to not be abusive. It was his chance to hold integrity. Otherwise it would of been an easy win. I'd already considered just eating lazer till out of chaingrab range on both stocks. Dull as hell.
Akuma's hard banned in most st tournaments in the US. He's soft banned in Japan, but their culture puts a lot more importance on the way people perceive you, so if one of the best players there went Akuma, the loss of face would be pretty **** unbearable. We don't have that kind of cultural construct in the US, which is why Akuma is outright banned here. Otherwise, I'm sure you'd eventually get several people who are very good with Akuma winning every tournament, despite popular opinion against them.
-----------------------------------------------
But really, your concept of honor is arbitrary, which is the biggest issue that I take with your position. You do realize that veterans of Jungle Japes generally avoid the underside of the level like the plague, and that the fact that you put Crio under the level at all shows that you played the level better than he did, right? You had won that match by properly using the level's mechanics. This is no different from you using the fact that Falco can't safely recover to the ledge on Lylat in Round 1. Why is attacking Falco out of his only safe recovery option honorable, when hitting someone into the Klaptrap isn't? I don't see where you're drawing the line.
The strangest part is, no one understood why you did it. No one even appreciated what you did for what it was. They saw it as a match that had been exciting and interesting which you kinda ruined with your sudden suicide. Ultimately, you probably left a lot of people feeling conflicted, and Crio says in the comments that he didn't deserve that win. So despite all your talk of honor, you're just making people uncomfortable. And I think I'm getting at the most itchy part of the topic.
I've always viewed honor as something that you can't ascribe to yourself based on your own acts. You cannot help an old lady across the street and proclaim, "therefore am I honorable!" It doesn't work like that. Your peers have to see you do this (or similar acts), and understand it to be rooted in your nature as a person. Maybe you'll slip occasionally, but if your peers know you to be on the whole a good person, you'll save your honor simply by apologizing. There's no need for theatrics. This isn't unlike the concept of face in Japan; honor has to do with your worth in society. The difference is, most Americans place other values above honor.
But what you're doing is different. Everyone at that tournament would have thought no less of you had you taken that match and simply said that you probably didn't deserve the win. There was no honor at stake. And yet you still insisted that the match end according to values and beliefs that you held. And therein lies the rub. It wasn't about your honor as perceived by your peers. It was all about you. This was all a question of your self worth. You have a crippling belief that if you don't win your way, you haven't won the right way. Not only is this false, but it's even a little bit selfish. Anyone watching that match will have wanted you to win, for several reasons (character choice high among them). In spite of this massive public will, you made the entire outcome of the tournament about your self-worth. You could have made a whole lot of people feel just a little bit warmer inside, but you chose to end the match feeling smug because you were "honorable." This is what made everyone there uncomfortable. They felt cheated.
You would do well to at least disabuse yourself of the notion that your decisions along those lines are in any way honorable. The sooner you do that, the sooner you can really take your play to the next level.
Well said. I concede.