Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[SketchHurricane]

Code Feedback

I could tolerate auto L-cancel, but I still don't see why even some of you are seriously considering S-cancel. You really don't think removing ALL aerial lag is bit drastic? I could see a character like Ike shoot up unnecessary tiers from just one S-canceled move: his Fair.

On another note, I was playing some matches with a friend with hitstun 1.2 on. It wasn't really that drastic of a change, but still noticeable in certain situations. This is a good thing. It means that combo's will definitely take some work to even approach broken-ness, if at all. And furthermore that you will have to put in the work to find reliable combos, which is exactly what Kupo is doing in making his vids.

I will say that it adds a lot more 2 hit true combos, which could potentially develop some good bread and butter finishers. Olimar, who I played a bit, gets a definite boost to his down-throw follow up game. I think this is what Kupo meant when he said the grab game should get a bit better as a goal.

Another thing I noticed were easier KO's with hitstun. That might seem obvious, but we've been increasing hitstun specifically for combos, while I just want to point out that it also causes you to die from hits you could normally aerial-jump or airdodge-jump to survive.

 

[M15t3R E]

S-canceling would be too drastic. L-canceling or auto L-canceling all the way.

S-canceling and huge hitstun was why SSB64 was broken. But every character seemed to be broken so it balanced out.

 

[Alopex]

Hmmm... would it be possible to make Perfect Shielding timing as hard as it was in Melee?

This, too me, is the most broken aspect on Brawl. By making Perfect Shielding so easy and so effective, the game is automatically made extremely defensive. Shield pressuring is gone and punishing approaching becomes better than approaching. This is a terrible thing and we should fix it if we can.

In Melee and 64, fear of shield pressure made sure people were always trying to be offensive instead of defensive.

Brawl could also use more Melee-esque shield stun so that people will actually need to be careful when on the defensive.

Genereal reductions in defensive powers are the most needed thing in Brawl right now.

Can it be done? Both those things sound like a code could easily get it done.

 

[Yeroc]

S-canceling would be too drastic. L-canceling or auto L-canceling all the way.

S-canceling and huge hitstun was why SSB64 was broken. But every character seemed to be broken so it balanced out.

Drastic measures for drastically overpowered defense mechanisms . I love playing with S-canceling. The game's so fast and lots more moves become viable now. I don't think the L-canceling code even changes what airs are useful, it just makes them all faster. Pointless, IMO.

 

[Wind Owl]

I think your sig just gave me a seizure. That thing is seriously distracting.

 

[MBlaze]

Marioblaze, why are you so strongly opposed to an auto l-cancel? DDD and snake will be just as broken without it as they would be with it. If it's possible to do something, a player will do it. And with such a fundamental technique as l-canceling, players WILL do it. Saying that snake and DDD players should have to "work" for it is missing the point. It doesn't make them any less broken by making them have to manually l-cancel. They're still going to pull off every ridiculous thing they would've before. We're doing this to increase depth of the game. Having to press a button every time you do an aerial does not increase depth. It just makes it so you have to press a button every time you do an aerial. And it barely increases the skill level required to play the game.

No other Smash game, not even 64 had that crap. It just seems akward... and dumb as hell to me...

Unless you want crap like Fox dair spam to be that much easier without that occaisional screw up...

 

[hippyman69]

yeroc. seriously. remove that sig. you could give someone a seizure and you will be to blame. it wont be funny.

 

[hippyman69]

Hmmm... would it be possible to make Perfect Shielding timing as hard as it was in Melee?

This, too me, is the most broken aspect on Brawl. By making Perfect Shielding so easy and so effective, the game is automatically made extremely defensive. Shield pressuring is gone and punishing approaching becomes better than approaching. This is a terrible thing and we should fix it if we can.

In Melee and 64, fear of shield pressure made sure people were always trying to be offensive instead of defensive.

Brawl could also use more Melee-esque shield stun so that people will actually need to be careful when on the defensive.

Genereal reductions in defensive powers are the most needed thing in Brawl right now.

Can it be done? Both those things sound like a code could easily get it done.

no reductions in defensive powers. l-cancel is all it needs (or s-cancel) to balance it out. you are far less punishable and shield grabbable with l-cancel. maybe i think that cuz i play way too much 64. :/ oh well.

Marioblaze, why are you so strongly opposed to an auto l-cancel? DDD and snake will be just as broken without it as they would be with it. If it's possible to do something, a player will do it. And with such a fundamental technique as l-canceling, players WILL do it. Saying that snake and DDD players should have to "work" for it is missing the point. It doesn't make them any less broken by making them have to manually l-cancel. They're still going to pull off every ridiculous thing they would've before. We're doing this to increase depth of the game. Having to press a button every time you do an aerial does not increase depth. It just makes it so you have to press a button every time you do an aerial. And it barely increases the skill level required to play the game.

on the off-chance that they miss it. you can capitalise on it. yes, even pros can make mistakes.

 

[eet]

auto lcancel? why? ...learn some timing and cancel your own aerials >> adds depth too

and timing the lcancel changes based on if they shield, or get hit, if you're fast falling, and what part of the aerial hitbox is out when you hit the ground ... to say it wouldn't add depth is silly. And all of those also play into spacing your aerials, which you use to follow up with grab, wd, jab or w/e.

 

[MBlaze]

These previous posts sum up my point quite well.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

You guys don't seem to understand that being able to push a button at a correct time isn't adding depth. There's absolutely no situtation you WOULDN'T l-cancel (unless you're using an auto-cancelled aerial). There's no downside to it, you just do it so you get less lag for free. Being able to push a button at the right time isn't adding depth, it's adding reflexes.

 

[MBlaze]

It's adding reflexes.

Enough said.

 

[Unseen_Killa]

Enough said.

Reflex isn't depth.

 

[Wind Owl]

Wow guys... This conversation has happened like 6 times already. Pretty sure the conclusion was, "play how you will, or how the TO wants you to."

 

[Mocha19]

I just really wanna see a bigger window open for Dash Dancing.. That's all I really want.. LOL

 

[Wind Owl]

D: It's so freaky whenever I see that avatar... It's like, "wait, when did I post that?"

I really need a new one ._.

 

[zxeon]

Lol, I thought you tripple posted there for a second Wind Owl.

 

[Revven]

Apparently, Power Marshall (a hacker who does Super character codes and such) made a code for Zelda/Sheik Instant Transformation. Well, it was PART of a Super Sheik code. He just told me to take out certain parts of the code to get what I wanted. I'm posting this here because well, it helps the Zelda/Sheik players of Brawl+.

Zelda/Sheik Instant Transformation (Power Marshall)
80000000 90180FB8
80000001 81000000
60000006 00000000
4A001000 00000000
38000000 00FF0F00
4A001001 00000000
30270A14 0000011E
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
E200000F 00000000
80100000 0000005C
80100001 00052000
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

I haven't used it yet, so, if anybody does let me know how it goes. I'm trying to get him to do the same for PT... don't know if he will. It's untested the way it is right now so, if there are any bugs feel free to report them to me and I'll tell Power Marshall about it.

 

[MBlaze]

Pretty cool. Any luck with the perfect hitstun lately?

 

[MuBa]

Things we need to improve on Brawl+:

-Normal Gravity Jump, higher gravity fall

-Increase hitstun by 40 frames (and/or added hitstun via tumbling, twirling, or any other odd stun animation)

-Increase input window for L-Canceling


Edit: Also Falco400, think you can ask Power Marshall to make Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard NOT fatigue? Oh and also still be able to retain the SAME pokemon when KO'd? Oh and also prevent any weird "type" advantages when 2 PT are going against each other.

 

[zxeon]

Apparently, Power Marshall (a hacker who does Super character codes and such) made a code for Zelda/Sheik Instant Transformation. Well, it was PART of a Super Sheik code. He just told me to take out certain parts of the code to get what I wanted. I'm posting this here because well, it helps the Zelda/Sheik players of Brawl+.

Zelda/Sheik Instant Transformation (Power Marshall)
80000000 90180FB8
80000001 81000000
60000006 00000000
4A001000 00000000
38000000 00FF0F00
4A001001 00000000
30270A14 0000011E
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
E200000F 00000000
80100000 0000005C
80100001 00052000
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

I haven't used it yet, so, if anybody does let me know how it goes. I'm trying to get him to do the same for PT... don't know if he will. It's untested the way it is right now so, if there are any bugs feel free to report them to me and I'll tell Power Marshall about it.

Lol wut? That's amazing.

 

[Revven]

Edit: Also Falco400, think you can ask Power Marshall to make Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard NOT fatigue? Oh and also still be able to retain the SAME pokemon when KO'd? Oh and also prevent any weird "type" advantages when 2 PT are going against each other.

I asked for all of the above except the last one. Do they really have type advantages/disadvantages? I thought that wasn't true... if it is, isn't it the same for Pikachu and Jiggs and Lucario? Or just PT?

 

[MuBa]

I tried the code out...There was no instant transformation -_-

 

[Revven]

I tried the code out...There was no instant transformation -_-

Odd. Well, try the WHOLE Super code out then.

80000000 90180FB8
80000001 81000000
60000006 00000000
4A001000 00000000
38000000 00FF0F00
4A001001 00000000
30270A14 00000112
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
30270A14 00000114
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
30270A14 0000011D
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
30270A14 0000011E
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
30270A14 00000115
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 4F000000
E2000002 00000000
30270A14 00000117
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 41000000
E2000002 00000000
30270A14 00000118
3026C5F8 40000000
1426C5F8 41000000
E2000002 00000000
4A000000 81000000
14270E94 00000028
E0000000 80008000
E200000F 00000000
80100000 0000005C
80100001 00052000
62000000 00000000
E0000000 80008000

If you do instant transform then, yay, that works but, it just won't on its own I guess. I dunno. Were you Zelda or Sheik? It might matter who you were because the code originally was Super Sheik so...

Just try the super code out and transform either to Sheik or to Zelda and tell me how that works out.

 

[The Cape]

Any word on no fatigue pokemon? I see the trainer independant pokemon, but does that give you no fatigue as well? Havent had time to test it yet.

 

[Wind Owl]

..... Transform has nothing to do with animation times; it's entirely about how fast your Wii can load the other character. Super codes will not help you with that no matter what.

 

[ndayday]

^^Apparently that's correct because I just tried it, the transformation time didn't change, but you can immediatly start transforming to the other character once you transform.

So, it just lets you transform back and forth really fast.

 

[The Cape]

Tried out the L cancel code, didnt see anything different from it.

The S cancelling however shows a huge change.

 

[Wind Owl]

Mario really doesn't benefit from L-canceling tbh.

 

[The Cape]

We tried it with a bunch of characters and saw no change what so ever.

 

[Revven]

We tried it with a bunch of characters and saw no change what so ever.

The input window is very different from Melee's and you have to HOLD the button all the way down. It's really impractical, it's why I like S-Canceling more, it suits Brawl's no hitstun crap.

 

[Yeroc]

S-cancel ftw.

 

[MuBa]

I agree. S-cancel is better for Brawl.

 

[kangaroo]

except for yoshi...

 

[kupo15]

No other Smash game, not even 64 had that crap. It just seems akward... and dumb as hell to me...

Unless you want crap like Fox dair spam to be that much easier without that occaisional screw up...

Fox's Dair is already auto l canceled....

Code Feedback

I could tolerate auto L-cancel, but I still don't see why even some of you are seriously considering S-cancel. You really don't think removing ALL aerial lag is bit drastic? I could see a character like Ike shoot up unnecessary tiers from just one S-canceled move: his Fair.

On another note, I was playing some matches with a friend with hitstun 1.2 on. It wasn't really that drastic of a change, but still noticeable in certain situations. This is a good thing. It means that combo's will definitely take some work to even approach broken-ness, if at all. And furthermore that you will have to put in the work to find reliable combos, which is exactly what Kupo is doing in making his vids.

I will say that it adds a lot more 2 hit true combos, which could potentially develop some good bread and butter finishers. Olimar, who I played a bit, gets a definite boost to his down-throw follow up game. I think this is what Kupo meant when he said the grab game should get a bit better as a goal.

Another thing I noticed were easier KO's with hitstun. That might seem obvious, but we've been increasing hitstun specifically for combos, while I just want to point out that it also causes you to die from hits you could normally aerial-jump or airdodge-jump to survive.

For the most part. Btw, the Ganon combos arent because of the low hit stun. Even some of the Pit ones. Both are mostly avoidable with good DI.

 

[Alopex]

no reductions in defensive powers. l-cancel is all it needs (or s-cancel) to balance it out. you are far less punishable and shield grabbable with l-cancel. maybe i think that cuz i play way too much 64. :/ oh well.

I already have the L-canceling and also WDing codes in the game, and it's still extremely defensive.

As long as Brawl's shield is that versatile and strong, the game will always be like this.

We need to make the Perfect Shield timing like it was in Melee, and we need to increase the sheild-stun back to how it was.

As of right now, there's no drawback to shielding, only advantages. And that's a problem.

 

[Mocha19]

The L-cancel window is indeed different from that of Melee's. It seems like you have to hit the trigger at a VERY precise moment before hitting the ground. It's way tighter, but I was able to get it quite often without hitting something. Whenever I hit a person or a shield, it got a little harder due to the freeze frames. It definitely takes some time to get use to.

 

[SketchHurricane]

To the guy saying L-cancel adds reflexes instead of depth...where's the downside to this? You're basically implying that reflexes are useless. Unless your implying that the reflexes come from the speed increase and not the button requirement. In that case, you basically just want the game speed up, which makes sense. Just trying to get a feel for your reasoning.

And for the people still championing S-canceling...I'm still puzzled. Speeding up the game is one thing, but doing so by removing all aerial landing lag is NOT the way to do it! By doing that, you're completely removing an aspect that separates character attributes. Halving the lag speeds up the game, but removing all lag makes all aerials equally risky on landing. That's removing depth from the game, people. Why would you do a less damaging move when a more powerful one is no less risky? You're removing the utility of naturally fast moves.

"The game is too slow, let's remove all lag!" is like saying "The game is too defensive, let's REMOVE the shield!"

Again, I'll use Ike as an example. His bair comes out FAST but is very risky if you miss because of the lag, both aerial and landing. His fair comes out SLOW but has better range and less landing lag. S-canceling would allow you to use the bair just like the fair, except to greater effect since it comes out near instantly. So now, what is the fair good for? Sure, there are things I didn't mention that make the fair a better choice, but that's not the point. The point is that you just removed a layer of depth from the aerial game by closing the gap that made the fair and bair usable in their own specific situations. Another obvious example is Bowser's bair. S-canceling completely removes the exact reason it shouldn't be used on the ground, but instead as an aerial finisher. L-canceling makes it faster, but still retains the gap that makes the fair a better choice on the ground.

Again, please don't refute this by listing ways in which the aerials are still different. The point is that S-cancel actually removes one layer of depth to add another. Let's add depth, not trade it.

 

[Yeroc]

I'm in favor of S-canceling because it's a better answer to the problem of overpowered defense in this game. In Melee, before L-canceling became prevalent, sheild grabbing was the primary technique that distinguished good players from bad. All you had to do was lure people to attack you and you got a free combo. In SSB, you could be unbelievably offensive because Z-canceling made it so much more effective of a strategy than being defensive. I think we need that in Brawl. Brawl's sheild mechanics are incomparably stronger than either of the previous games, and it's offense severely hindered by the lack of safe approach options.

You think that S-canceling is too overpowered, but I say that it's exactly what's needed to fit the bill. Look at the current L-canceling code. A couple powerhouse characters aside, it really makes no changes in what air moves are safe to approach with and which ones aren't. Things like Sheik and Sonic's horrendous d-airs still suffer from way too much lag even if successfully canceled, whereas they'd actually become useful moves if we use S-canceling. So Ike might be buffed a bit more than others, but I think many people would be in favor of that anyway (Ike was supposed to be a popular character, right?) We won't know where the characters fall in a new Brawl+ tier list until we actually got around to testing it all out. But my proposition stands: If we "break" Brawl's offense, then I think it will do a great job of attaining parity with Brawl's already broken defense. A new balance will be obtained, and I'm confident that it will be a better one that what we have in regular Brawl.

Edit: I guess I skimmed over the beginning of your post and missed some of the end there. My apologies. To answer that, I would say that I don't really think we're removing depth because you can't always attack everywhere with any aerial, plus having air moves be more interchangeable allows for greater mixup potential. If you can only use one air move in a given situation then you don't have any reason to use any move but that one and so you really can't do anything to change things up and catch your opponent off guard. And just to reiterate my other reasoning, your argument of having to be more considerate of what aerial you choose is still rendered effectively moot in light of the severely overpowered defense. It's somewhat mitigated by spacing, but that doesn't really fix anything at all as far as I can see.

 

[Revven]

I'm in favor of S-canceling because it's a better answer to the problem of overpowered defense in this game. In Melee, before L-canceling became prevalent, sheild grabbing was the primary technique that distinguished good players from bad. All you had to do was lure people to attack you and you got a free combo. In SSB, you could be unbelievably offensive because Z-canceling made it so much more effective of a strategy than being defensive. I think we need that in Brawl. Brawl's sheild mechanics are incomparably stronger than either of the previous games, and it's offense severely hindered by the lack of safe approach options. You think that S-canceling is too overpowered, but I say that it's exactly what's needed to fit the bill. Look at the current L-canceling code. A couple powerhouse characters aside, it really makes no changes in what air moves are safe to approach with and which ones aren't. Things like Sheik and Sonic's horrendous d-airs still suffer from way too much lag even if successfully canceled, whereas they'd actually become useful moves if we use S-canceling. So Ike might be buffed a bit more than others, but I think many people would be in favor of that anyway (Ike was supposed to be a popular character, right?) We won't know where the characters fall in a new Brawl+ tier list until we actually got around to testing it all out. But my proposition stands: If we "break" Brawl's offense, then I think it will do a great job of attaining parity with Brawl's already broken defense. A new balance will be obtained, and I'm confident that it will be a better one that what we have in regular Brawl.

Not only this but, characters actually have a LARGER chance against each other than they did before, characters with bad match-ups could actually have even match-ups against the characters they do bad against without S-Canceling. Not only tha, but, MK doesn't benefit from this and people like Ike and Ganondorf can actually do relatively well against MK. Sure, it buffs Snake and DDD like crazy but, it buffs other characters just as much, and IMO this is what makes S-Canceling better as well.