Brawl+ (Competitive Hacks): Codes, Videos, and Discussion (THREAD OUT OF DATE)

[SoraOwnsAll]

IRC it is then.. Plus with IRC people can enter and leave as they please.. AIM needs an invite..

Anyone know how to set up an IRC room? I'm sure it's not too difficult.

You can always try making a xat chat at xat.com It doesn't take too long to make one.

 

[zxeon]

It's easy you just make it

/join #brawl+

or whatever and you tell people to join.

 

[B.W.]

Let's see if I fail or not.

The room is indeed called #brawl+

The server is irc.oz.org

 

[Magus420]

The time where he was able to do the jump compared to the AD are very close it is possible I could be mistaken.

They weren't really close at all though. It was at nearly half the distance compared to the jump.

 

[B.W.]

The above post is proof that hitstun exists. Air dodging and A-attacks just need to be taken out of the mix.

From there we'd need to play with it, fiddle around. See if it's enough, too much, too little or what ever.

 

[kupo15]

wow so your right. I guess I mean that while in the "heat" of battle I didnt notice the different to be that big. I would still like to see where the tumble begins. I will have to try this out myself tomorrow.

EDIT: I tried it now and I deeply apologize. I was wrong and you are right. You can not jump out of hitstun but you can AD and attack out of it.

10sorrys

 

[B.W.]

I've never seen anyone tumble in Brawl thanks to being able to get out of hitstun early.

I wonder if it's any different from Melee's tumble state.

 

[kupo15]

It think its quite common. I know I let myself go in the tumble state when my perc is in the middle to avoid an easy punishment of ADing immediately. So I just tumble until the right time to get out.

Tumble is brawl is different than Melee. In melee, you can't AD out of tumble, in brawl you can.

 

[B.W.]

Well that answers my question.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

what about the hitstun when someone is standing?

 

[Canadian*Sniper]

Hey look! Newbs and Smash Veterans playing Hacked Brawl! They like it!!!

You can label these as "BC, Canada SFU smashfest friendlies" or something.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=hIR5xGDW2zg&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=IA6f0VI9U5w&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=rS6g7_-OqBk&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=VrdrivhHubM&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=xPSCCJ0H4Z8&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=i-eLGt8Oj8g&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=g5hP8IihF5I&fmt=18
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=X3kAEU6zf3I&fmt=18

ps - not putting &fmt=18 at the end of a youtube link makes you a newb.

 

[CT Chia]

Yea there was a lot of mistaken posts in this thread and a lot of people are confused at how it works. Everyone just listen to Magus and don't question him lol. His post with the 3 gifs clears everything up. If we can only make it so you can't aerial or airdodge until the same time you can jump, everything would be fine for that part. (no tumble hitstun still needs DI however)

Anyway... New vids from 2 days ago. Watch the incredible **** that is Diddy and Falcon. Toon Link is on steroids when he shffl nairs, and Bowser makes the screen shake when he wd's which messes up your opponents l canceling.


Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (Diddy) vs Wind Owl (Ike)

Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (MetaKnight) vs Wind Owl (Ganondorf)

Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (Pokemon Trainer) vs Wind Owl (Ike)

Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (ROB) vs Wind Owl (Sheik)

Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (Toon Link) vs Wind Owl (Bowser)

Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (Toon Link) vs Wind Owl (Ganondorf)

Brawl+ - ChiboSempai (Captain Falcon) vs Wind Owl (Ganondorf)


^ my fav matches are toon link v ganondorf, my falcon, and my diddy

 

[Wind Owl]

lol I suck >_>

I like my Bowser and my Ike though

ps - not putting &fmt=18 at the end of a youtube link makes you a newb.

More like, not having your preferences set to "Always play higher-quality video when it's available" makes you a newb.

EDIT: I created a chatbox. As much as I'm not a fan of this site's interface, it seems the best way to allow the most people to access it with the least effort: http://xat.com/BrawlPlus

 

[smasher32]

what's the general consensus so far about adding more hacks to Brawl +?

 

[Wind Owl]

So far our agenda seems to be (in order of priority)
- Agree on a cancel method
- Remove the ability to airdodge or attack before you can jump during hitstun
- Add the ability to DI weak hits
- Remove ledge grab lag
- Remove ledge snapping

Other than that, we don't plan on adding anything else, at least as of yet.

EDIT: By the way, about removing ledge lag... It's a really necessary feature in my opinion, but I'm worried because now you can just AD into the edge and not die, so EVERY SINGLE CHARACTER would have an infinite ledge stall. In one of the very early versions of the AD code, it functioned more like Melee in that you would die if you AD'd directly into the ledge. Perhaps we can convince our hacker friend to restore this.

 

[MuBa]

what's the general consensus so far about adding more hacks to Brawl +?

We need hitstun and also test the game with it.

 

[BardicKnowledge]

I've been following this and talking about it with a few folks over at OCR, and have a suggestion. I definitely think that wavedashing should be in...but is it possible to make the airdodge system such that if you hold a joystick input when you dodge, you get the Melee dodge (read: wavedash), and a neutral dodge will give you the Brawl style one?

One of the things I liked about Brawl was multiple air-dodges that preserved momentum. For me, it improved the aerial game in such a way that I'm resistant to losing it even if it gives us wavedashing back. If we could have both, that'd be awesome. I know almost nothing about hacking, and what I do know applies to old NES games, so I have so idea if this is feasible or not.

Anyway, I'm interested in the opinions of others, and thought this thread would be a good place to bring it up. Anyone else enjoy the Brawl airdodge as an improvement to aerial play?

 

[Wind Owl]

People have suggested having both systems but the popular opinion seems to be that that would only make things worse... Not only can you AD directionally, but you can also infinite AD if you just want to escape from a combo. I guess having the old AD but causing it to disable you if the stick is neutral might be cool, but we haven't really discussed it and we have nobody to make it for us.

 

[MuBa]

I seriously think once we get more hitstun (albeit from throws, tilts, and aerials only), I'm pretty sure wavedashing will become a very important factor for combos (and perhaps infinites).

 

[CT Chia]

keep auto ledge snapping. its needed for the mechanics of brawl. the game relies on it

take out the ledge lag by all means. this will not give everyone an infiinite ledge stall. itl actually be a very bad idea for ppl to do. the way a ledge stall worked in melee was an attack, so when u weren't grabbing the ledge, there was ur attack around it like sheiks up B or fox falco upB. in this, u dont grab the ledge mid air dodge, u grab it when the air dodge is over. all ya gotta do is grab the ledge (like by hugging) when theyr in the air dodge state and their dead. done deal.

i personally think the canceling should stick with regular l canceling. magus' idea is very interesting and perhaps has room in a game, but i dont think it fits well with this game.

also make it so dash dancing is for real

i think the order of work should be:
-ledge lag (cause of how easy i presume it to be)
-fix tumble anim air dodge (so theres f'in combos)
-dash dance (rly speeds up the game, should be easy)
-di weak hits (removes stupid crap lol)

 

[Wind Owl]

Forgot about DDing somehow... It's definitely vital, yeah.

 

[kupo15]

So far our agenda seems to be (in order of priority)
- Agree on a cancel method
- Remove the ability to airdodge or attack before you can jump during hitstun
- Add the ability to DI weak hits
- Remove ledge grab lag
- Remove ledge snapping

Other than that, we don't plan on adding anything else, at least as of yet.

We are also undecided about the AD system and we wont know until we get the hitstun code. I still like Brawl's better and need to be convinced its better to sway me otherwise. Wind Owl, maybe sometime we can Brawl and actually discuss this at Drexel along with Chibo. That would be nice!

I've been following this and talking about it with a few folks over at OCR, and have a suggestion. I definitely think that wavedashing should be in...but is it possible to make the airdodge system such that if you hold a joystick input when you dodge, you get the Melee dodge (read: wavedash), and a neutral dodge will give you the Brawl style one?

One of the things I liked about Brawl was multiple air-dodges that preserved momentum. For me, it improved the aerial game in such a way that I'm resistant to losing it even if it gives us wavedashing back. If we could have both, that'd be awesome. I know almost nothing about hacking, and what I do know applies to old NES games, so I have so idea if this is feasible or not.

Anyway, I'm interested in the opinions of others, and thought this thread would be a good place to bring it up. Anyone else enjoy the Brawl airdodge as an improvement to aerial play?

I do and it makes more sense

I still dont think wavedashing is needed. Ppl were able to space themselves correctly without it in 64. I still think it changes the game too much due to the slow pace (64 like) nature of Brawl. I think wavedashing fit melee so well because it complimented its already hectic playstyle. Wavedashing just changes the game to be more like melee 2.0. But then again, we need to test it with the hitstun code to see which system is better.

EDIT: yes DD and the dumb ledge lag. forgot about those

 

[MuBa]

If we have a longer dashdance system then I don't think wavedashing would be necessary.

Perhaps we can make a system where if we're in the air we can do Brawl airdodging and when on the ground, we can waveland after a certain distance from the ground. Kinda like what Gimpyfish mentioned when he went to E3 to try out Brawl for the first time.

 

[Wind Owl]

Wind Owl, maybe sometime we can Brawl and actually discuss this at Drexel. That would be nice!

Sure, just AIM me or something. I have to time to go to the Lounge 101 in the basement of the main building pretty often.

 

[Megachuk]

How about crouch cancelling, I remember reading when brawl was still in beta that crouch cancelling was in. And for god's sake ledge lag needs to be gone asap

 

[Wind Owl]

But... crouch canceling would make Sheik's chain useless again D:

 

[Megachuk]

Yeah... I think everyone is more than willing to take that hit. Seriously crouch cancelling will add so much depth to the game it'll be insane. And it just might WRECK meta's weak moves that don't knock you far.

 

[Wind Owl]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that... Tiltlock probably would suck too then (which is good, lol).

(Megachuck join our chat)

 

[CT Chia]

couch canceling might be tough to make.... our would it?
i can think of how itd be done

if ur crouching and hit with an attack that would normally put u into weak hit state, u stay crouched, take damage, but get pushed back slightly with no lag

 

[Wind Owl]

You'd have to mess with the collision handling; it sounds kind of messy tbh

 

[Makkun]

Although I definitely agree we need to try codes such as hitstun and crouch-canceling, I'm not so sure they have a place in Brawl. I mean, if they turn out to work really well, then I'm all for it. Also, we really need dash-dancing.

Sorry I haven't been posting much the past few days, I have like 3 huge school projects I've been working on. -_-

 

[kupo15]

I agree with makkun. There are a lot of great mechanics in melee that dont belong(fit) in brawl as well as things we dont want to change. Funny thing is how two of them (wavedashing and CC) were physics exploits and not intended and now ppl think that is the only way smash can be competitive. Dont get me wrong, i see where you guys are coming from and how it adds depth, but Im trying to look at the other side and down the road when we have everything.

Imagine 64 with wavedashing and CC. That is what Im seeing and I dont like how that looks. But the first thing I believe we need is hitstun. Once we have that, decisions will be much easier.

Like i think WDing fine now, but when hitstun comes, it has to go.

 

[Eggm]

keep auto ledge snapping. its needed for the mechanics of brawl. the game relies on it

take out the ledge lag by all means. this will not give everyone an infiinite ledge stall. itl actually be a very bad idea for ppl to do. the way a ledge stall worked in melee was an attack, so when u weren't grabbing the ledge, there was ur attack around it like sheiks up B or fox falco upB. in this, u dont grab the ledge mid air dodge, u grab it when the air dodge is over. all ya gotta do is grab the ledge (like by hugging) when theyr in the air dodge state and their dead. done deal.

i personally think the canceling should stick with regular l canceling. magus' idea is very interesting and perhaps has room in a game, but i dont think it fits well with this game.

also make it so dash dancing is for real

i think the order of work should be:
-ledge lag (cause of how easy i presume it to be)
-fix tumble anim air dodge (so theres f'in combos)
-dash dance (rly speeds up the game, should be easy)
-di weak hits (removes stupid crap lol)

This is good the only thing i'd add to it would possibly be auto sweet spot. The edge snap when your facing backwards and stuff and for hugging is fine, but the auto sweet spot IMO takes away a ton of depth thats been in there since smash 1, such as edge guarding non sweet spotted up + b's teching when you miss the sweet spot and just being able to sweet spot well. I could go on but it'd take forever. I heard somewhere that this type of hacking involves changing values or something. So there must already be a numeric value to how long after you + b it "auto sweet spots" cause you don't do it at the start of an up + b you could just increase that number individually for every character for as long as their up + b goes up. I dunno tho. I will be very sad if we cannot take that feature out and not have marth up + bing into another marths tipers teching and trying to come back over and over like what happened with azen in that epic match. xD Ledge teching in that manner really gets the crowd excited and stuff (something brawl was missing).

Edit : I forgot all about that brawl doesn't have CCing, god... so bad.. ANYWAYS that should be above even everything else. CC then DD then hitstun, then auto sweet spot, i don't even care besides that tbqh, oh and also less time you have to hang on the ledge before you can release.

Edit 2 : I have no problem with S-canceling and L-canceling both being in at all. options are good.

 

[ResidentWaffle]

kupo15

Your post says that I said this:
Be careful here. The current airdodge system is the only thing that makes things like Din's Fire tolerable. If dodging it puts you in helpless state, you're screwed against Zelda when you're OOS.

Alopex said that in the other thread "S-cancel vs L-cancel! Discuss!", not me. He did that in response to my comment: Being helpless though after air dodging is VERY GOOD. It makes air dodging an actual decision instead of "slam R to get out of hitstun"

now I'm split on the issue. It was never a problem in melee, and maybe increased gravity will help you reach the ground more quickly... however, one thing is if you can infinitely air dodge, it is really hard to combo anyone. Look at it like this...

In the current Brawl system, you can airdodge infinitely and before you are actually out of your hitstun, so you can air dodge to get out of your hitstun and to avoid another hit of a combo

In the hacked system, if you airdodge to get out of hitstun early then you are left helpless to be hit again, so you must be more careful with your airdodge, and you can possibly be tricked into psuedo-combos where someone forces you to airdodge and then hits you in the helpless state afterwards, which in the current system they would just be hit again...

This may be helped if the ability to airdodge early in the hitstun was removed, and possibly a slight bit more hitstun. Again, I'm split on the issue and think both sides involve some consideration and experimentation. I'm not ruling either out yet. I'm not convinced that projectiles are broken with a single airdodge, can zin's fire be sent at you twice while you are in the air if you air dodge down then fast fall to reach the ground? I doubt that would happen unless you were reeally high in the air. In fact, I can't think of any projectiles that come out so fast that it'd be a huge problem except falco's lasers... maybe.

I belive what he said is true, if falling speed is increased this shouldn't be a problem

 

[Makkun]

I belive what he said is true, if falling speed is increased this shouldn't be a problem

The problem is that we want to keep BRAWL physics. We aren't making a Melee mod for Brawl.

 

[ResidentWaffle]

yeah but if it makes the game more fun/solves a problem with projectiles, then who cares

 

[Makkun]

yeah but if it makes the game more fun/solves a problem with projectiles, then who cares

I suppose, but this also adds to people's old argument of "Just go play Melee". OF COURSE, as I've said, I'm up for trying anything, and if it works out well, I'm all for it... but I think it would technically create a second subtype: Brawl 2.0 (Melee 2.0 to the ignorant) - Unless of course, every Brawl+ player likes the Melee-physics codes that would be produced.

 

[Wind Owl]

I would be open to faster falling speed and to shorter shorthops, but not to a gravity increase. We've already seen how that fails.

 

[Makkun]

I would be open to faster falling speed and to shorter shorthops, but not to a gravity increase. We've already seen how that fails.

Yeah, that would be interesting. But it would be strange to see a character rise slowly and then fall super quickly. Given, that's what fastfalling does, but I think this would make it look REALLY strange. It must be tested!

 

[Megachuk]

Oh, I hadn't thought of that... Tiltlock probably would suck too then (which is good, lol).

(Megachuck join our chat)

I can't join I'm at work. I get off at 3:30, I'll join the chat then.

But..
I came up with a list of things to add:

#1 is of course, crouch canceling.
#2 Ability to smash even when holding down
#3 Dash dance
#4 Get rid of Controller port advantages

On a side note, I think more hit lag is probably a bad idea. Combos will probably become TOO easy. Besides that grabs and throws will be absolutely broke, the only thing that needs more hit lag is hits after aerials. And that still might be too much, juggling DDD across the stage with meta might become soooo easy it’ll be dumb.