BRAWL+ Character Ratings

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@SheLL: Yeah, I forgot about utilt and Ganoncides... Though at that point, you can also just use dtilt's immense range and throw it over the edge... Or angle your fsmash down over the edge...

I'm probably the only one who thinks Ganondorf should get a B in gimping.

 

[Ussi]

Dthrow (Good for setting up with bair to bonuce off the stage) EDIT: this can be tech'd in vB.. what about B+?

I'd argue Ike is the worst simply because the opponent could easily turn the attempt around. But I do not play against any good ikes so I do not know. It just seems to me though that the worst gimpier would be the character with the worst air mobility.

lol fail. Ike is 19th in air mobility. (tied with Toon Link) Ike has range and dtilt and eruption to edge guard with..Eruption hits SOOOOOOO low that if you don't auto sweetspot the ledge (or land on the stage far away from Ike), say good bye. I'm not questioning why Ike doesn't have a C or B in gimping, cause well, i haven't played every character.

I haven't tried doing a walk of aerial with Ike in B+. with new fall speeds it could just mean death now for Ike.

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

Wow, you actually made a graph and everything, good **** jiang.

I was looking at Mario's spacing and gtfo me.. I think that his gtfo can actually be B, because Bair spaces people off you so well and you can start full hopping into empty jumps/ff aerial mindgames to get people off you. There's also retreating fireballs and caping projectiles while running away. I play with a b+ falco main who constantly lasers me and I can get him off me once in a while, although he does get me inevitably due to the way falco's approach works. (LASERLASERLASERLASER)

I wish there was between grades >_< Mario could be in between there in my opinion, but just leave as is, its good. Nice job with the other grades they're pretty spot on :].

 

[Ussi]

Mario's Up B makes an excellent GTFO me move. Invincibility frames~

 

[Christopher Rodriguez]

And I believe he can use dair if you know how to cancel it.

Its actually even decent as long as you don't kill yourself doing it, like full hop over the ledge > dair and it pushes people away. Its good in general. But sonic definitely deserves a higher gimp grade.

 

[GHNeko]

Mario's Up B makes an excellent GTFO me move. Invincibility frames~

I wouldn't say Excellent, but really good. Still doesnt have alot of GTFO me options.

 

[SketchHurricane]

I wouldn't say Excellent, but really good. Still doesnt have alot of GTFO me options.

It's decent. But anyway, isn't GTFO off Me just a creative way to say Defense?

I guess I'll take a stab at Oli since he's not up there...

Olimar
Endurance - C - He's not heavy, but Whistle can make him survive way longer than he should.
Gimp Resistence - F - We all know how easy it is to gimp Oli.
Mobility - C - Nothing special, nothing horrible.
Resilience - ? - honestly don't know, since I haven't played him in the new 3.3 set
Spacing - B - Spacing's the name of his game, but he is rather slow in the aerial department which prevents the A
GTFO of Me - B- Nair is a decent interrupt, and his shield grab is great even against attacks that push
Approach - D - Oli usually forces you to approach, so I wouldn't rate this high.
Follow-Ups - B - Latching pikmin is one of the best follow ups around.
Combo Finisher - D - He can combo well at low percents, but his finishers are usually one-hitter quitters.
Punish KOs - A - All his smashes are great punishers, and purple up throw/blue back throw are great shield grab kills
Gimping - C - Purple pikmin are a good gimp, but not reliable. He's got the spike, but can't go too far out with it due to his gimpability if he messes up.

 

[James177]

Ivy should get at least a b in finishing, he can land a uair after some of his throws, which kills pretty early.

 

[cobaltblue]

lol fail. Ike is 19th in air mobility. (tied with Toon Link) Ike has range and dtilt and eruption to edge guard with..Eruption hits SOOOOOOO low that if you don't auto sweetspot the ledge (or land on the stage far away from Ike), say good bye. I'm not questioning why Ike doesn't have a C or B in gimping, cause well, i haven't played every character.

I haven't tried doing a walk of aerial with Ike in B+. with new fall speeds it could just mean death now for Ike.

Dthrow may be techable on the stage but I have never had anyone recover before they went flying off the stage at a low enogh tajectory for me to follow up and Bair them back to the edge and bounce off the stage for a KO. Now I have had people tech the bounce after Bair to save themselves.

And I stand corrected with Ike. But the question becomes again how does it compare with others in practice?

 

[IC3R]

Does Yoshi not exist in Brawl+?

 

[Shell]

He doesn't get a lot of love. If you play him frequently in Brawl+, though, help us out and try your hand at ranking him!

 

[IC3R]

Oh, it's not for me, but my brother. He's the Yoshi main~

And a beast one at that. However, our Wii is kinda...put away...
So I can't get him to test everything D:

The only two existing Yoshi+ vids suck tons and tons of bawlz~

------------------------
Okay, onto other matters~

Is there any significance in the character list ordering? It's starting to look like a Melee Tier List almost~
I don't want Kirby to suck again D: (lol Kirby sucking~)

 

[Shell]

What do you mean test things? Just have him give his opinion on the categories, looking at other characters for reference and keeping in mind that the ratings are all relative. Even if it's not perfect other people will critique it (hopefully constructively).

 

[IC3R]

What, I mean is that he can't give out valid opinions simply because we are incapable of actually playing Brawl+ v3.4--or Brawl at all--so we don't even know how Yoshi plays. (I used Kirby in v3.3, so I have an idea on how he's plays out.)

But as for categorical opinions, I'll ask him...

 

[Deleted member]

Will there be a spot for IC and another one for solo IC? I don't think IC can be portrayed correctly with only one space.

 

[PikminEater]

As a Peach main, I think you put Peach too low in several categories.

Gimp Resistance should not be a C. I would say a solid B. Her Peach bomber stage-spike sopponents on the ledge. Her Parasol knock them off and also protects her from almost every attack from above. For horizontal recovery, she has her float which is amazing, her Peach Bomber and her Parasol's float. For vertical, her parasol covers massive distance. Just because her 2nd jump is small doesn't mean her vertical recovery is poor.

Follow-ups should also be a B. Peach has very solid combo options. Her attacks string together wonderfully. Her jab, grabs, and Dair are unstoppable. Some short examples:

Jab - Dashgrab- Dthrow - Usmash - Ftilt - Nair is one string that works well for me.
Dair - Dair - Nair - leads to almost any attack you want at low percentages. (And of course, depending on who you are fighting)

Gimping should be a C. Turnips are the devil for characters like Fox and Ness. She can float off stage and use Fair or her high priority Nair and Bair to interrupt recovery and both have solid killing potential.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

changes made, pikmin eater.

 

[Ussi]

Dthrow may be techable on the stage but I have never had anyone recover before they went flying off the stage at a low enogh tajectory for me to follow up and Bair them back to the edge and bounce off the stage for a KO. Now I have had people tech the bounce after Bair to save themselves.

And I stand corrected with Ike. But the question becomes again how does it compare with others in practice?

Oh i've have had my fun of dtilting and using eruption for edge guarding. No sweetspots has made Ike's dtilt very very useful since it is the strongest ground spike move. (outside Luigi's taunt) It depends on the characters recovery though. Someone like Sonic won't really be affected by Ike's dtilt/eruption as its the exact same way to avoid it in vB, Spring > AD through. But say Pikachu is forced to recovery using QA and doesn't sweetspot, boom dtilt and gone. Ganon and Falcon's recoveries get ***** beyond belief by dtilt even if they meteor cancel, just dtilt more.

I'd say this should bring him to a C since it should work around half the cast. But idk about other chars too much. But looking at the ratings, Ike should be C since the ones he can't dtilt/eruption usually are B or higher in gimp resistance.

 

[Morrigan]

As a Peach main, I think you put Peach too low in several categories.

Gimp Resistance should not be a C. I would say a solid B. Her Peach bomber stage-spike sopponents on the ledge. Her Parasol knock them off and also protects her from almost every attack from above. For horizontal recovery, she has her float which is amazing, her Peach Bomber and her Parasol's float. For vertical, her parasol covers massive distance. Just because her 2nd jump is small doesn't mean her vertical recovery is poor.

Follow-ups should also be a B. Peach has very solid combo options. Her attacks string together wonderfully. Her jab, grabs, and Dair are unstoppable. Some short examples:

Jab - Dashgrab- Dthrow - Usmash - Ftilt - Nair is one string that works well for me.
Dair - Dair - Nair - leads to almost any attack you want at low percentages. (And of course, depending on who you are fighting)

Gimping should be a C. Turnips are the devil for characters like Fox and Ness. She can float off stage and use Fair or her high priority Nair and Bair to interrupt recovery and both have solid killing potential.

I agree on everything. Except her Parasol's recovery from below. It is harder to grab onto the ledge in B+. If they're edgeguarding/hogging it will be difficult for her because of the lack of autosweetspotted ledges.

 

[matt4300]

Ivys punish kos should get a C his fsmash is a really great kill move with crazy range and his usmash is kills at 70. what your list says is he has worse punish kills than sonic and that is just plain wrong.His combo finisher should get a B honestly uair fair and up- b are insane for combo killers. Combos and combo finishers are his entire game and they are crazy. ^_^ your doing an awsome job with this btw. Get ready to change it when the buffs start lol

 

[Ussi]

Ivys punish kos should get a C his fsmash is a really great kill move with crazy range and his usmash is kills at 70. what your list says is he has worse punish kills than sonic and that is just plain wrong.His combo finisher should get a B honestly uair fair and up- b are insane for combo killers. Combos and combo finishers are his entire game and they are crazy. ^_^ your doing an awsome job with this btw. Get ready to change it when the buffs start lol

No, Sonic's finishers aren't that strong with DI.. his game is combo and gimp not kill.

 

[Dark Sonic]

No, Sonic's finishers aren't that strong with DI.. his game is combo and gimp not kill.

He was talking about Ivysuar's fair, uair, and up B. Not Sonic's


Although...haven't you ever seen Sonic's upthrow->uair/bair (or spring combos in general? At that height...DI doesn't make much of a difference (at least for bair). DI up and you die off the top, DI sideways and you die of the sides. Take your pick.

Not to mention that a lot of Sonic's combos move people off the stage....I think that should be taken into account (since Sonic's got good edgeguarding too)

 

[Eight 52]

Yoshi has an f in gimping? People don't play Yoshi much then lol. With the new codes, it's easy to set up an easy dair or fair kill, and dtilt is now extremely useful and has the same knockback everytime. It might not be an A, but it's definitely not an F

 

[CloneHat]

Yoshi has an f in gimping? People don't play Yoshi much then lol. With the new codes, it's easy to set up an easy dair or fair kill, and dtilt is now extremely useful and has the same knockback everytime. It might not be an A, but it's definitely not an F

Yoshi's double jump is really high and annoying, so I think that hinders some of his aerial potential.

 

[IC3R]

My brother's taken a look at Yoshi's grading, and these were some of his comments:

"Endurance looks fine. Yoshi is kinda heavy for someone his size;

Gimp Resistance is only a C? Yoshi can fricking air dodge throughout most of his second jump! He has Eggs to prevent some edgeguarding, and sometimes can use them to cancel out things like Samus' Missiles. Regardless, the Egg Toss gives him that little jump, so I'm not sure why he has a C;

Hmm, a C in Mobility...Alright, I'll go with that. Yoshi's not like Jigglypuff or Fox;

Being somewhat heavy doesn't help with getting comboed, though I think the Super Armor in his second jump can prevent some comboes from working. So I'm feeling iffy on Resilience;

lol GTFO Me...An F?! Oh yeah, Yoshi can't jump out of his shield or do much of anything. Jabs are pretty much all he has

Yoshi's, in my opinion, is pretty good with Spacing. He can use B-Air to keep the foe away, because if he gets hit he gets comboed into another B-Air and maybe a U-Air. Egg camping is pretty fun too...Should be at least a C;

B-Air is a pretty good Approach, but I haven't seen much outside of that. C is fine;

Follow-ups looks pretty good. I love Jab -> Dash Attack -> U-Tilt -> U-Smash

Combo Finisher looks okay, I usually don't end a combo with much other than U-Air, an Egg Toss, U-Smash, or F-Air spike. Could be a B, maybe;

I'll settle for the C in Punish KOs, getting folks with a punishing Smash is too good, as well as hitting them for a mispredicted air dodge;

Let's take a look at Gimping, should be pretty good..........What........the.......****.......How the hell does Yoshi have an F in Gimping?!?! The guy can has a good enough second jump to KO offstage with either D-Air, F-Air, N-Air, or even a footstool, Egg Toss Hop closer to the stage, and use his second jump to get back to the edge, and Egg Toss again if necessary. God, I wish there were more good Yoshis~"

That's pretty close to what he said yesterday. I had to work last night, so I couldn't get anything up until today~

 

[goodoldganon]

So I disagree with a good amount of these ratings (I was holding out till it was finished) but I'm gonna offer my two cents on Wario, considering he is a strong alt of mine.

Endurance: Agree

Gimp Resistance: Seriously? He was unaffected by the NASL code so there's that...but come on! You are totally underrating the bike as a recovery. Wario easily has one of the best recoveries in the game. Even if he loses his bike he still is very floaty and can recover well. The ability to lose the bike on stage gives him a B in my eyes.

Mobility: Agree

Resilience: Agree

GFTO: Wario has a wicked good spot dodge and the super Armor on the F-Smash is amazing. I never have any problems getting space with Wario if I need it. Basically I'd say he should get a B.

Spacing: Sadly it's true.

Approach: True

Follow-ups: His D-air can combo into itself and most of his approach moves lead into more hits for a combo. If there is anything Wario doesn't have trouble doing it's building damage. Once he is in there in your face it can be tough to get him off you. That's why his approach is so poor.

Combo Finisher: Agreed

Punish KOs: The F-Smash and spot dodge are good but not A good. I'd say a B.

Gimping: He has one of the best recoveries in the game. The Wario Flop and F-air are good at keeping people off the stage. It's not amazing but I'd argue C worthy.

Wario still kinda plays like a vBrawl character but that's not a problem since he is still a very solid character. His biggest fault were the grab releases on him and all of those have been fixed. Though the lower aerial lag didn't help him at all he can still build damage like a fiend. I just feel Wario is underrated amongst the community.

 

[Blank Mauser]

Yoshi gimps really well with nair and edgeguards great with it too. His double jump is actually good in that regard. He definitely doesn't deserve an F in that area.

 

[GHNeko]

LOL. There is NO WAY Mario has a better GTFO off Me than Marth. If Marth is a C, than so is Mario. If Mario is a B, then so is Marth.

Marth is a C in gimping as well. He's okay in it, but he can only go out so far, and even doing so causes himself to be put at risk for being gimped.

 

[goodoldganon]

LOL. There is NO WAY Mario has a better GTFO off Me than Marth. If Marth is a C, than so is Mario. If Mario is a B, then so is Marth.

Is that directed at me? Did you mean Wario?

 

[CanadaKid91]

Point:
Ness doesn't deserve an F in Endurance. A rank of C is much more appropriate.

Proof:
Ness is NOT a light character! Ness is approximately in the middle of all the characters weights.
Ness has an excellent double jump, which is boosted by his strange floatiness.
PSI Magnet is a decent stall.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i hope you guys realize that if i give a C to everyone, it wont mean anything right?

 

[matt4300]

We are all just trying to help you make the most acurate list possible.

 

[doom dragon 105]

Lets start with how incorrectly you showed Ike. You will need multiple people to make a chart like that

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

i want to make it accurate, but the problem is that everyone wants to see their character with average stats. these are stats in relationship to one another. ie: SOMEONE needs to get an F in gimping. that's the end of the story. who is the worst gimper in the game?

 

[matt4300]

Lets start with how incorrectly you showed Ike. You will need multiple people to make a chart like that

We are the multiple people.

Most chars have 2 or more decent gimping options so the only Fs in gimping should go to the absolute worst wich are Ivy and IC next one would be the Ds wich chars like link and olimar fall into.

 

[DarkLeviathan89]

Let's take a look at Gimping, should be pretty good..........What........the.......****.......How the hell does Yoshi have an F in Gimping?!?! The guy can has a good enough second jump to KO offstage with either D-Air, F-Air, N-Air, or even a footstool, Egg Toss Hop closer to the stage, and use his second jump to get back to the edge, and Egg Toss again if necessary. God, I wish there were more good Yoshis~"

This is my main concern. I just started using Yoshi in B+, and even in regular Brawl I would go offstage to do a nair, and just use my double jump to go back onto the stage (heck, the egg toss recovery usually isn't necessary to get back unless I screw up).

Other things I question a bit are Gimp Resistance (air dodge during double jump,
should be B at best but definitely not higher than that) and Spacing (jabs, bair, and eggs are good enough that C would be fine).

Looking at everything else, I agree with a lot of the other categories. Yoshi's mobility is decent, but not too impressive now that characters like Fox and Falcon just soar through the air. For GTFO Me, Yoshi does have to rely on his jabs a lot for that due to his poor out of shield options, so I can understand the F. Yoshi does seem to have a decent amount of followups, such as his tilts, bair, and uair (at least on lower percents), and he does have a harder time killing during a combo, so that C is about right IMO.

I commend you for taking the time to make this chart, and more importantly, trying to take everyone's input into account. Good job.

 

[GHNeko]

Is that directed at me? Did you mean Wario?

I mean Mario, not WA-WA-Wario. :D

 

[CanadaKid91]

i hope you guys realize that if i give a C to everyone, it wont mean anything right?

True enough, but my reasoning still stands.

Ness does not deserve to be classified with light characters. His small size may give the appearance of him being light, but he is actually medium weight. Try him out if you don't believe me.

And thanks for taking the time to do all this. Much appreciated

CK91

 

[Shell]

Yah Ness and Lucas are both nearly average weight.

Also, is there any significance to the groupings or order of the chart?

 

[cobaltblue]

i want to make it accurate, but the problem is that everyone wants to see their character with average stats. these are stats in relationship to one another. ie: SOMEONE needs to get an F in gimping. that's the end of the story. who is the worst gimper in the game?

Bowser, Olimar, Donkey Kong, Zsamus.