Brawl+ Character Balance Discussion: Character 6: GANONDORF

[goodoldganon]

Ganon is the main villain in Nintendo's greatest series. Ganon is usually related to the pig or beast forms he can take, Ganondorf is his humanoid form. Ganondorf did not make his appearance till the greatest game of all time, Ocarina of Time, was released. Ganondorf then made his first Smash appearance in Melee. Much to this poster's chagrin Ganondorf was made a clone of the great Captain Falcon.

Ganondorf returned in Brawl and sadly he is still a clone of Captain Falcon. But, Ganondorf was able to break out with a few key differences from Captain Falcon, mainly the Flame Choke. Ganondorf has two key problems that prevent him from truly showing why he deserves the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf has a weak approach game and he has problems dealing with pressure. When Ganondorf can get his hands on you, it can certainly spell a lot of damage, but it is certainly not reliable.

So what do you guys think of the Great King of Evil, Ganondorf? Before we begin this topic I feel we need to mention the new 'Sword Ganon' code that was recently released. Yes it is pretty badass, no one will argue that. We may consider implementing the Sword Ganon concept if it can be fixed to work properly, however, this topic is meant to discuss what changes need to be made to Ganondorf's base moveset. Please refrain from talking about Sword Ganon in this thread, or from using the sword set as a balancing point.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

..? ganon? why ganon?

 

[DerpDaBerp]

..? ganon? why ganon?

Why not? is the question
-

Make him not run like a pregnant woman

 

[wazgood]

super armor flame choke would be a **** approach

 

[goodoldganon]

Ganondorf has two key problems that prevent him from truly showing why he deserves the Triforce of Power. Ganondorf has a weak approach game and he has problems dealing with pressure.

Right from the OP. Combine that with the natural disadvantages of heavy, plus being the largest or second largest character on the screen. We aren't expecting a Bowser-esque overhaul, but Ganon does need some help.

If you have suggestions on who to do next feel free to post them as long as you have legit comments on Ganondorf.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

ganon is supposed to have a relatively hard time approaching, and i thought his pressure probelm was solved w/his faster jab

 

[1048576]

I think we should keep Ganon who he is. Make him incredibly heavy (like dying on average of 250%), and possibly give him less hitstun or supe armor after 60 consecutive frames of hitstun so he doesn't get comboed to hell. Thus, ganon maintains his playstyle of tricking the opponent into getting owned with uber potent attacks while having more time to do so.

I would really hate it if we just made him faster and have a better recovery. Homogenizing is bad, IMO.

 

[goodoldganon]

I think we should keep Ganon who he is. Make him incredibly heavy (like dying on average of 250%), and possibly give him less hitstun or supe armor after 60 consecutive frames of hitstun so he doesn't get comboed to hell. Thus, ganon maintains his playstyle of tricking the opponent into getting owned with uber potent attacks while having more time to do so.

I would really hate it if we just made him faster and have a better recovery. Homogenizing is bad, IMO.

Above all else I want to keep Ganondorf who he is too. Teching the Flame Choke hurt his game, a lot.

 

[:034:]

As a Ganondorf main, my opinions are finally useful!

First of all, we can't increase grab/hitbox range, right? If you can - INCREASE HIS GRAB RANGE. That alone would give him a significant buff.

Ganondorf's flame choke needs a speed boost up to 1.4x, maybe even 1.5x. Being able to tech his Choke REALLY hurts his techchasing game, which is something that Ganondorf was REALLY good at and should above all be kept.

The ALR on Ganondorf should be about 35-40% on ALL his aerials, giving him a bit better approach game. His bair should also be buffed in knockback, it now kills from the center of FD around 150%. That's just not cool.

Wizard Kick (down+B) has potential to be a REALLY good move but right now it isn't because it lacks both speed and power.
You can go two ways with this move: make it an approach move by speeding it up a little (I suggest 1.1-1.2 when it comes out) and reducing it's end lag by about 50%. Also, if you have the power to make it go past a shield like Falcon Kick does, that'd be great.
The other suggestion is the power move it was in Melee. Making it a spike in the air, and giving it's power back on the ground would make it a good techchasing move.

Speed up his Dark Dive (up+b) so it can be used OoS. That could help dealing with shield pressure.

Super Armor frames on Dash Attack would be a **** approach... But right now it's a powerful killing move, so to compensate, we should probably lower the knockback on it.

Also, we of the Ganondorf boards have always dreamed of making utilt a cancellable move - to use the suction effect to drag in your opponent and hit them with another move rather than utilt. This would give Ganondorf a usable utilt.

So tl;dr:

1. Increase his grab range (if possible).
2. Make utilt cancel into other moves, keeping the suction effect (if possible).
3. Speed up Flame Choke to about 1.4-1.5x.
4. Reduce ALR to 35-40%.
5. Increase bair's knockback to the awesome move it was in Melee.
6. Change Wizkick into either an approach or power move.
7. Speed up Dark Dive to help against shield pressure.

In order of priority, of course.

Other possibilities:
1. Faster ftilt.
2. SA frames on Dash Attack and lower it's knockback.

EDIT: I also want to say that Ganondorf isn't an approach character, but against characters with projectiles, Ganondorf can get camped really hard, so he still definitely needs a good approach move (even if it was just one).

 

[Team Giza]

Side+B changes;
Speed up the animation after the choke even more.
If possible, give him weak armor (like that on DK's cargo) on the dashing part of his side+B. This would make it so it cannot be easily stopped by jabs, weak tilts, and some projectiles.
Slow down the animation for when the side+B misses. This would make up for the buffs to make sure it will only be used in the right situations.

Up-tilt changes;
Make it be cancelable into a grab or a a jab after the animation is half way over.
Change the strength of the wind a bit to make suck in to grab possible in some situations.

Down+B;
Regain jump after using it in the air.
Have a lower trajectory and slightly more knockback for ground hits.
Speed up its landing animation.

Nair;
Speed up the animation by a very small amount.

Uair;
Make the uair semi-spike slightly stronger.

edit: I like the ideas of adding SA frames to the dash attack like Flying Dutchman suggested.

 

[Rudra]

Imo, the best we can probably do is give him some super armor here and there (I mean, he does have the Triforce of Power, he shouldnt really be flinching on a lot of his attacks). His tilt's have excellent range and setups (Dtilt), and his smashes alreay **** upon contact. His aerials are also incredibly strong and have suprising range..there's little we can really do for him save adding some Super Armor now...maybe adding it into his Dash Attack and on the startup of some of his aerials.

Just throwing it out there.

(Also, getting his second jump on vB would be cool too)

EDIT: o_o Wow, my net must be really slow. You guys got some good stuff in before my post! XD

 

[Torchico]

I think he is pretty balanced as it is. Although I really would like him to have his "Down B" recovery back. I saw the idea about letting him having a sword as well. That could be cool.

And this is not really a balance suggestion, but it does relate to Ganondorf.

Is it possible to replace his normal standing animation, to the one where he has his arms crossed? It looks so much more badass, and suits him.

 

[Teronist09]

Basically I agree with everything Dutchman said. He's much more experienced Ganon main than I am. I think maybe make his dtilt a little better for juggling, possibly the ftilt speed up.

Someone had suggested before giving choke a stun effect, but that would just give Ganon guaranteed hits. I'm not really in favor of speeding up choke, but I guess if we can't make it untechable it's as good an option as any.

If ever possible, I would like to be able to play with a chargable utilt, just to test it out and see if it makes his punishing game too strong. At the least it should be definitely cancelable. I also don't think he needs to get his DJ back after aerial wiz kick.

If the Sword-Ganon taunt activate-deactivate codes are further developed and the necessary changes are made to his beam swords' hitboxes, that could also open up a new level to using Ganon. Changing some of his aerial hitboxes/moves to use the sword (if that ever becomes possible) would be icing on the cake.

Also, what happened to the fair winddown speed up that was in one of the beta releases? That was a good addition, imo.

And this is not really a balance suggestion, but it does relate to Ganondorf.

Is it possible to replace his normal standing animation, to the one where he has his arms crossed? It looks so much more badass, and suits him.

And do this. Make the arm cross animation loop into itself while you're not moving if freezing it looks weird. It would be like D3's crouch.

 

[IC3R]

Did you guys miss the part where goodoldganon said:

Before we begin this topic I feel we need to mention the new 'Sword Ganon' code that was recently released. Yes it is pretty badass, no one will argue that. We may consider implementing the Sword Ganon concept if it can be fixed to work properly, however, this topic is meant to discuss what changes need to be made to Ganondorf's base moveset. Please refrain from talking about Sword Ganon in this thread, or from using the sword set as a balancing point.

But yeah:

1. Wizard's Foot (Down-B) :: Speed up the windup and cooldown frames, and--if possible--give it the ability to bypass Shields;
2. Grab :: Increase the range by maybe a quarter of a Mario, if possible.

That's all I've got~

 

[Shell]

FAIR
@Teronist09 - The fair windown was good at its intended purpose, but it had a large flaw -- It actually narrowed the window where he has his fist fully extended and made it more difficult to land on a grounded opponent. The current code does the opposite and extends that frame 4x so that you'll hit grounded characters with maximum range better. If we wanted to, we could still reduce the windown after this point, but I don't think it's a good idea to speed up all of the lower 3/4 of the swing.

Really, I think that Fair is all of the approach boost that he needed. It's great because it puts pressure on the opponent and can set up for an edgeguard, but doesn't necessarily set up for combos (other than low percents), preserving the effort needed to get those powerful tools going. And yes, secretly I'd love all of his arials to be 40% ALR, but that might be too good.

SWORD
I also have mixed feelings about the sword. It could be nice with some tweaking. Also, I haven't used it yet but from a purely aesthetic point of view, I don't really like the way he looks when he's doing animations like jumping or doing moves that weren't built around having a sword and he ends up waving it at all sorts of ridiculous angles. I also agree with leafgreen that it should be an alternative, not a replacement -- think of TF2's unlockables (well, some of them -- the Medic's Blut is just better etc.).

Edit: Ignore this for now, then.

CHOKE
As for the choke, I was talking to Yeroc last night and we discussed some of the interesting yomi layers a techable choke develops, but ultimately agreed that it was undeniably a nerf overall. Here's one option for the choke if we left it techable that I like:

-Speed up the swoop of both arial and grounded (Dutchman said 1.4-1.5x, I don't know yet)
-Increase the damage from 9% to like 12ish%
-Is it possible to speed up the actual choke portion just enough that he has time to get a jab in (3 frames) but not a tilt before they hit the ground (tech)?

Although he would lose the guarantee of d-tilt / f-tilt, he could still mindgame into other options, and this would make landing it much easier, increase the overall payoff of chaining them together (9% is liek 1/3 of a single stomp o_O) and if the guaranteed jab follow-up could be preserved, it would still give an option of forcing the opponent towards / off the edge at higher percents.

ICING ON THE GANON-CAKE
Here are some things I think are ultimately unnecessary, but could be cool:

For a completely different use of the wizkick, remove it's arial startup and cut the ground end-lag (the quake) drastically. This would create an arial c-c-c-combo breaker right in the direction that many foes will be coming at (70 degrees below his front horizon) which would cover the holes in the vulture kick. Problems I can see already are that it'd be situational to use off-stage and the move has doesn't have spit for priority. Also, it would remove the move's start-up lag mind-game thing, for whatever that's worth.

Cape had a plan to cut down the U-tilt's time and decrease it's KB and make it such that you could combo into it. This could be interesting.

Edit

GRAB
Also, we can't just increase the range of the standing grab (or any attack), but if you wanted to give him a better grab, just speed up the dash grab and make it useable like a standing grab. His shield grab would still be terrible, but for most other situations it would be a perfectly fine solution. I don't know if this is necessary, but it's an option.

 

[Jiangjunizzy]

I don't know that much about ganon, but I don't want to see any buffs (namely any speed buffs) to his ftilt. It's at a pretty good balance between risk/reward.

 

[Shell]

I agree. It's basically a smash without all of the damage and slowness.

 

[:034:]

FAIR

I haven't played 4.0 yet (since there aren't any PAL codes yet!), so I wouldn't know about the new fair. It's true that it works as an approach move fairly well, but you'll just be a predictable *******. Constantly approaching with fair isn't a good thing. In Melee, fair wasn't the only approach move either. No dice, son.

CHOKE

Choking is a very important part of Ganondorf's gameplay. Speeding it up IS necessary because people are a) able to tech it and b) techrolls are 1.3x faster than in vBrawl. As of 4.0, Ganondorf's Choke is 1.25x faster. These numbers simply don't match up, no dice.

A damage addition would be nice, but the speed is MUCH more important - who cares if it does more damage if you can't connect them?

ICING ON THE GANON-CAKE

That does sound nice, but ultimately a bit unuseful. Cancelling utilt and using the suction effect would be a much better addition and fits with the whole 'I don't have to approach, you come to me' gameplay that Ganondorf has most of the time (obviously not against projectile users..)

GRAB

Why would you make it faster? It's already one of the faster dashgrabs in the game... Not to mention he already has the fastest standing grab in the game (ending at frame 13, I believe).

EDIT: Can't we replace functions? Here's my idea: When you press Z, Ganondorf's pivot grab will activate in place of his normal grab. For a pivot grab, it doesn't have that much range (I think it was measured somewhere in the middle and it was a bit worse than D3's standing grab range). Or, alternatively, L/R+A activates the pivot grab and Z does the standing grab.

 

[Shell]

We don't currently have a separate Action ID for a pivot grab or a dash grab, so I don't know if either of our ideas could work. If we could find those it might be possible.

And I was just throwing out the idea of lessening the cooldown on his Dash grab such that it's comparable to his standing grab. Could you hook me up with some more frame data if you've got it? Otherwise I can just "grab" it myself

 

[:034:]

We don't currently have a separate Action ID for a pivot grab or a dash grab, so I don't know if either of our ideas could work. If we could find those it might be possible.

And I was just throwing out the idea of lessening the cooldown on his Dash grab such that it's comparable to his standing grab. Could you hook me up with some more frame data?

Hm, that's too bad...

Erm, there's a thread in Tactical that has all the grab data, here it is: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196207 According to it, Ganondorf's standing grab is the fastest (ending at frame 13) and has a grab range of .33 blocks, among the worst. Dash grab ends at frame 19, being pretty good, but only having the range of .6 blocks (D3's standing grab range), pivot grab ends at frame 17 and has .6 blocks of range.

Other Ganon frame data in vBrawl, from my head, are ftilt starting at frame 10 or 12, dash attack at 10, flame choke at 16... But I'm honestly not sure about those numbers <_< >_>

 

[Shell]

Ahh great -- Swoop's guide had good frame data on most moves except the grabs.

 

[dabridge]

From the little I've played Ganon in B+ 4.0, I feel like he's already balanced enough as it is. One thing that would be nice, would be something that people are already suggesting - speeding up the choke. Maybe give him superarmor on a few moves too... but that's all I can say.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

Why not enable Ganon to use his 2nd jump out of the wizard's foot like in Melee? It would help his recovery.

 

[SGX]

I would like to see his 2nd jump go a bit higher so that you could actually forward B onto the stage. That would be sweet.

 

[trojanpooh]

I like the following ideas:
*Higher 2nd Jump
*Jump out of Wizard's Foot
*Some Super Armor here and there
*Pretty much everything in Flying Dutchman's first post (especially utilt cancel)
*The arms crossed thing

My own idea:
*Buff Uair (either KB or make parts of it a semi spike like Pikachu in Melee)
*Warlock Punch either stronger or faster

 

[1048576]

So make him faster with a better recovery.

*sigh*

 

[Shell]

I just want to say that 2nd jump out of wizkick is probably useless as a recovery, but may be useful if used after a spike attempt. I can't say for sure, but the trajectory of his wizkick & jumps is probably steeper than his somewhat floaty fall right now.

The arms crossed idea would look strage as all of his animations start from and return to him standing with his arms in the quivering with power / roids position.

Higher 2nd jump could be interesting, but I don't think it's necessary.

A higher initial KB on his toe during the Vulture Spike is something I've brought up before. I think it would be a nice option, but the stomp with momentum is just such a great tool I find myself going for the stomp more than I ever did in Melee / vBrawl.

@1048576: Were you really serious that he should live until 250%? He would easily be the best character in the game. I think his recovery and survival skills are fine.

 

[Rkey]

I want the up-b to deal more damage, it's weaker than falcons right now and that's NOT correct.

Edit: the top of it which makes shadow damage, could we increase the KB on that? and perhaps damage to, right now it's like "****, I missed the grab and the damage". Shouldn't that be the sweetspot?

 

[Swordplay]

I may get flammed a lot for this but I just wish ganon was 1.1X faster in ground speed.

I think it would help his approach and increase is **** combo game.



But my opinion shouldn't matter too much. Thats just me and nobody else is saying the same thing.

 

[1048576]

@1048576: Were you really serious that he should live until 250%? He would easily be the best character in the game. I think his recovery and survival skills are fine.

Yes I was serious. I think the fact that it's still hard for him to attack under pressure would balance this out. I think our general philosophy should tend towards giving as amny characters as possible their own unique attributes, rather than making everybody a Mario clone.

You guys seem to be all about buffing weaknesses and leaving strengths alone, which is going to homogenize the roster.

 

[Rkey]

Yes I was serious. I think the fact that it's still hard for him to attack under pressure would balance this out. I think our general philosophy should tend towards giving as amny characters as possible their own unique attributes, rather than making everybody a Mario clone.

You guys seem to be all about buffing weaknesses and leaving strengths alone, which is going to homogenize the roster.

Someone who thinks like me! Good ^_^

Yes, it's important to keep characteristic skills...

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I know dtilt is one if not his best ground move but I would like it if it was 1.3-1.5 times faster. :D

 

[Finns7]

Fix sideb teching is first and foremost to me

utilt has its uses hell all of his moves have uses, maybe less kb on one of his grabs for followups cus his grab game kinda sucks because he has no range and all the various shield nerfs gained with plus.

 

[Rkey]

Fix sideb teching is first and foremost to me

utilt has its uses hell all of his moves have uses, maybe less kb on one of his grabs for followups cus his grab game kinda sucks because he has no range and all the various shield nerfs gained with plus.

It would be nice to alter, in some way, the jump out of shield and side b. I mean, aerial side-b has no follow ups (edit: part from tech-chasing), correct? Yet it looks awesome and is a lot quicker and can't be teched... ?

 

[Teronist09]

It would be nice to alter, in some way, the jump out of shield and side b. I mean, aerial side-b has no follow ups (edit: part from tech-chasing), correct? Yet it looks awesome and is a lot quicker and can't be teched... ?

I'm pretty sure you can tech it, and with the momentum code most of the time the grabee lands behind Ganon.

 

[luvs2pluck]

this may be too good, but how about some heavy armor (not SA) for the opening frames of his dair? I love using ganon and one of the coolest things about him is making your opponent terrified of his dair offstage. It is one of the few meteors in the game that will consistently kill at mid to low percents even if it is canceled, and lets face it, its awesome. Having some heavy armor would let the stomp go through many of the upbs that currently override it.

This buff could be too good, as his dair is already a decent approach and buffing it could make him unstoppable, and some characters might never be able to recover once off the stage; but I would be interested in testing it.

This buff would make him better and make him more unique, therefore avoiding the dreaded homogenizing of the cast.

 

[Finns7]

arieal side b should do more shiz idk though what.

 

[leafgreen386]

Some good suggestions in here. Some really bad suggestions in here, too, but I won't talk about those.

I'm going to go ahead and post a list of all of the different suggestions that were thrown around in the broom. Yes, all of them. That includes ones that were suggested once and never looked at again.

First, the changes that already have been made:
- Increased jab speed
- Fair has maximum extension for three additional frames
- Fair has 40% ALR
- Fixed upB so you can't be hit for landing it anymore
- Murder choke sped up to 1.25x after grab

Now, for the changes people have mentioned but have not been implemented (all of them):
- Higher fair kb
- Reduce ALR of all moves (not just fair), mainly for better comboing with nair
- More kb on grounded wizkick
- Reduced landlag on aerial wizkick
- Increase wizkick speed (was suggested for both air and ground)
- Get second jump back after aerial wizkick
- Super armour on sideB
- Speed up rolls
- Rework the utilt
- FIX MURDER CHOKE'S TECHABILITY
- If not possible, speed up the whole MC
- Higher momentum (current = 92.5%)

Looking at this thread, we can now also add the following to this list (again, I just went through and took down everything that was mentioned, no matter how good or bad I thought the idea was):
- Uair kb buff
- SA frames on dash attack with less kb
- Bair kb buff
- Speed up upB startup
- Speed up ftilt
- Speed up nair slightly
- Speed up dtilt
- Heavy armour on opening of dair
- Increase kb of punch at the end of upB

Yeah... there are a lot of suggestions that have been thrown around. Quite a few of them have had to do with ganon's downB, so I think it's obvious that we should be doing something to this move.

Of the suggestions listed, here are the ones I would like to see implemented.

40% ALR on all aerials. The real impact this has is on the fair and nair. Fair has already been given a reduction, but not the nair. Nair would be a much more effective combo option if it had less lag. His other three aerials already finish before landing, so it would be a minor bonus for them.

More KB on the grounded wizkick would help him out quite a bit, I think. The move hit like a truck in melee. In brawl, it's just a gentle shove. It would help get the foe off the level and help set up ganon's **** edgeguards. I came up with this idea when we were talking about the idea of a reflecting wizkick (this was scrapped, so it's not listed above), but the more I think about it, the more this sounds like a really good idea. The greater knockback specifically compliments his playstyle, by giving him another way to get characters off the stage for edgeguarding. But the downB by itself is a fairly slow move to startup and easy enough to block, meaning he would have to combo into it a lot of the time. I think this would be a much more logical buff than buffing its speed.

The reduced landing lag on aerial wizkick is one I've been talking about for a while, now. I think it would greatly help in a variety of situations. It would increase the effectiveness of his OOS game by enabling him to perform a murder quake which he can actually combo off of. It would also enable him to more safely use the aerial wizkick while above the stage.

If we do not manage to fix the murder choke's techability, then I think a whole move speedup would have to be done (lesser in the opening of the move and more after the grab). Since the move would no longer be able to be used as a guaranteed setup move, I think making it better as an approach/punisher would be fair, while also drastically speeding up the endlag so he can act better off of it. A lot of characters already have moves that launch the opponent slightly into the air forcing them to tech and have the animation they're in finish by the time the foe hits the ground. I don't think letting him do the same off of his sideB would be broken at all. As long as he can't techchase on reaction, of course, which would be obscenely broken. I think that keeping it techable but applying this change would make it a very interesting move.

I would of course also like to see something done to his utilt, however, with all of these other changes, I actually think that it would be unnecessary. It would be really nice for him, though, as long as it didn't break him, and it would be pretty unique for him to be able to cancel his utilt with an attack. We would have to figure out how to give moves IASA frames, though.

As far as the momentum thing goes, I've always thought that most characters in the cast played better with slightly higher momentum than they have now. However, ganon seems like he was particularly affected. Full momentum gave him the ability to chase people further offstage, techchase more efficiently, and also helped his approach game with fair. I think ganon could serve to having it at least raised to 95%, if not his full blown 100% momentum, which would help compliment his game.

I actually don't want to see super armour (or heavy armour for that matter) on just about anything on any character. The game already has enough of that and we don't need to add any more. We don't need to manufacture priority with this stuff. If armour frames are added to anything, it needs to be done very carefully. Nevermind the fact we can't even do this, yet.

For the tl;dr folks, my suggestions:

- 40% ALR
- Stronger grounded downB
- Reduced landlag from aerial downB
- Faster murder choke all around, and is out of lag before they hit the ground (assumes that it remains techable)
- Possibly rework utilt (ie. adding huge IASA frames)
- Possibly increase his momentum from a jump back up to 95-100%

 

[IC3R]

LGLG

Looks good, leafgreen

 

[:034:]

aerial lag and wizkick buffs

Agreed completely.

The reduced landing lag on aerial wizkick is one I've been talking about for a while, now. I think it would greatly help in a variety of situations. It would increase the effectiveness of his OOS game by enabling him to perform a murder quake which he can actually combo off of. It would also enable him to more safely use the aerial wizkick while above the stage.

That's a pretty good idea, haven't thought of it like that.

Murder Choke

You already know the move isn't broken at all. We can techchase on reaction, but it takes almost frame perfect timing on most characters, and doesn't even work on half the cast in the first place. And even with that... We're still just above Falcon in the vBrawl tier list.

If you can't fix the techability of it, it definitely needs the speed buff.

utilt

Just think about it, you'd be fixing the second-worst move in the game! Warlock Punch is the worst, but I honestly think that WP shouldn't be fixed... It's a pretty lulzy move, like Falcon Punch. You wouldn't try to fix Falcon Punch either because it's just too good.

As far as the momentum thing goes, I've always thought that most characters in the cast played better with slightly higher momentum than they have now. However, ganon seems like he was particularly affected. Full momentum gave him the ability to chase people further offstage, techchase more efficiently, and also helped his approach game with fair. I think ganon could serve to having it at least raised to 95%, if not his full blown 100% momentum, which would help compliment his game.

How much momentum does Ganondorf have in vBrawl? 50%? I honestly don't know much about momentum since the 3.3 PAL Plussery code has faulty momentum codes. :/

super armor

I agree on this, although I do want to comment on how dumb it is that a character that has a full suit of armor doesn't have super armor frames. >_> But I think that with all these buffs it wouldn't really be necessary.

Good stuff.