Brawl+ Character Balance Discussion: Character 6: GANONDORF

[Aznpooface]

How do you guys feel about the warlock punch? As of right now I understand it's relatively useless other than its situational recovery use. What do you think could be done about it?

 

[:034:]

It's a move that you use purely for the fun of it, in my opinion. Not to be taken seriously.

If it had to be useful, make it so that you can activate the 'Punch' animation and it's hitbox at any given time, and increase knockback for the longer you let the normal animation go on. But that is probably impossible.

In my opinion, Warlock Punch is too funny and should be left as it is.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

It's a move that you use purely for the fun of it, in my opinion. Not to be taken seriously.

If it had to be useful, make it so that you can activate the 'Punch' animation and it's hitbox at any given time, and increase knockback for the longer you let the normal animation go on. But that is probably impossible.

In my opinion, Warlock Punch is too funny and should be left as it is.

I agree, that's pretty much like the Falcon punch .

Oh and, hm... So far, who have you been discussing about? (the past 5 characters)

 

[plasmatorture]

I think doing something with Ganon's utilt is a pretty high priority, personally. If it were cancelable it'd give him some utility for people to play with, prevent ridiculously unfair punishment for a botched input (no other character has this to such a bad extent), and it certainly wouldn't make him overpowered.

 

[AfroThunderRule]

I still say to speed up his dtilt. >.>

 

[Teronist09]

How do you guys feel about the warlock punch? As of right now I understand it's relatively useless other than its situational recovery use. What do you think could be done about it?

I don't think it should be sped up or anything, but I think a slight increase in damage, maybe 8-10 more, would be nice. Also, a kb fix so that it kills more vertically instead of sending people to the top left/right of the stage.

 

[goodoldganon]

Ok this thread seems to have run it's course. It seems most of us agree Ganon doesn't need that much help, but he does need a few tweaks to bring himself up to par. These are the major suggestions I'm seeing in this thread:

1. Do things to the aerial and grounded Wizard Kick. More knockback, faster start and winddown, always spikes, Super Armor, etc.

2. Give Ganondorf a form of armor. Be it like the 'Bowser Don't Care' code or some forms of heavy armor.

3. Fix teching on the Murder Choke. Possibly speed it up too.

There were plenty of other good suggestions, but these seemed to be brought up the most. We can probably close this topic soon and do our next character tomorrow.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

Ok this thread seems to have run it's course. It seems most of us agree Ganon doesn't need that much help, but he does need a few tweaks to bring himself up to par. These are the major suggestions I'm seeing in this thread:

1. Do things to the aerial and grounded Wizard Kick. More knockback, faster start and winddown, always spikes, Super Armor, etc.

2. Give Ganondorf a form of armor. Be it like the 'Bowser Don't Care' code or some forms of heavy armor.

3. Fix teching on the Murder Choke. Possibly speed it up too.

There were plenty of other good suggestions, but these seemed to be brought up the most. We can probably close this topic soon and do our next character tomorrow.

Woah woah, doesn't that seem overpowered?
I personally think that he's much more of a beast than Bowser.
Plus he can already dair spike with ease. His Wizard Kick was never a spike to begin with, or was it in melee? (or am I a total ignorant?)

 

[tommz]

i had a little off topic question, the electric effect was added to his jab for increase of priority correct? What if any effect does his dark add-on do to gameplay. Or if anyone could aim me at a thread that discusses all the add-ons that would be much appreciated, my search-fu might of just been weak.

 

[Teronist09]

Ok this thread seems to have run it's course. It seems most of us agree Ganon doesn't need that much help, but he does need a few tweaks to bring himself up to par. These are the major suggestions I'm seeing in this thread:

1. Do things to the aerial and grounded Wizard Kick. More knockback, faster start and winddown, always spikes, Super Armor, etc.

Wouldn't making wizkick always meteor get rid of it's ability to kill upwards at high %? I use it as an upwards kill to punish pursuers more than I try (or would try) to get it to spike.

 

[Aznpooface]

I think we should leave the trajectory of the wizard kick's knockback alone. It's great as it is, leave the spiking to D-air.

Maybe the pushback and amount of shield the warlock punch consumes could be increased?

 

[goodoldganon]

I might have not made my post clear enough and I'm sorry. Those are the popular suggestions for Ganondorf. For example, the Wizard Foot won't receive all those changes those are just the ideas I saw. Remember, I record what you guys think are good ideas and I add them to our Back Room discussions. Just because I talk about it in the thread doesn't mean it gets in. That make sense?

 

[Aznpooface]

I understand this, and you did make it clear that you were simply listing the popular ideas. I'm just adding my thoughts. Also, don't forget about the suggested changes to the U-tilt some people have made.

 

[Shell]

Final Change suggestions:


Here's my 2 cents on the wizkick:

-Arial 2x (faster?) startup time (Starts frame 8 instead of 16, then back to normal speed) for a combo breaker that fills in the holes of his Vulture Kick -- This would still be a situational option due to its trash priority and difficulty to be used safely off the stage.

-Quake cooldown 3x (44 frames to 15 frames) What's the point in wizkicking out of there if you'll be a sitting duck when you land? Plus it generates OoS options, as mentioned.

-Grounded is same speed, hits like a truck. If someone with >100% techs your choke away from you and you predict it and Wizkick them they should either die or get hardcore edgeguarded. In this way we preserve the additional yomi layers of a techable choke but increase the reward of predicting correctly.


Either fix choke somehow (ideal) or speed up the swoop to compensate for 1.3x tech speed, and if possible speed up the actual choke enough to allow him to jab before they can tech. Giza couldn't find any hitbox data for it, so I don't know if we'll be able to give it any slick effects or up the damage. As discussed, I think a beefed up wizkick would complement this new techable choke quite well.

Those wizkick and choke changes would be plenty for now in my book. If more playtesting after those changes are implemented indicates that he's still lacking, then I'd do 1+ of the following:

-Universal 40% ALR
-1.2x Rolls
-Bair KB growth increased
-Vulture Spike additional base KB on toe
-Utilt tweak

Honestly, I haven't even fully explored the effects of 40% ALR fair, though.

 

[IC3R]

Someone brought up an interesting point on the previous page: what are the effects of elemental attacks? Like does electricity add priority or higher hitstun? What kind of effect would Darkness bring about?

I have a suggestion for the latter question: make it have some form of "slowing" effect. Like, anything they do will be slowed by a certain percentage, at least until the flames wear off.

Example :: It has been brought up many times that the new teching window allows people to get out of Flame Choke follow-ups, which was a huge part of Ganondorf's metagame. So, the darkness effect produced by the Flame Choke could in turn slow down the teching process, if only slighty.

Thoughts?

 

[goodoldganon]

Someone brought up an interesting point on the previous page: what are the effects of elemental attacks? Like does electricity add priority or higher hitstun? What kind of effect would Darkness bring about?

I have a suggestion for the latter question: make it have some form of "slowing" effect. Like, anything they do will be slowed by a certain percentage, at least until the flames wear off.

Example :: It has been brought up many times that the new teching window allows people to get out of Flame Choke follow-ups, which was a huge part of Ganondorf's metagame. So, the darkness effect produced by the Flame Choke could in turn slow down the teching process, if only slighty. http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=121

Thoughts?

That's a good question and I'll make mention of it in the Ganon topic. Either way this topic has run its course.

 

[Clever_Sleazoid]

Honestly, I think all Ganon needs is for his utilt to kill at 35% or so, back to Melee KB status.

 

[Youko]

Closed by request.