Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[Budget Player Cadet_]

If I'm playing FF OFF with casual players friend I'm a scrub? W/e, I won't force them to hit each other.

ur friends r skrubz

 

[Blatt Blvd]

If I'm playing FF OFF with casual players friend I'm a scrub? W/e, I won't force them to hit each other.

ur friends r skrubz

beat me to it

 

[Hozu]

Well you know what? Only scrubs play with FF off anyways. Real players always have it on, so why bother punishing the casuals for no real reason?

 

[kr3wman]

what casual is gonna download brawl-

 

[Rkey]

what casual is gonna download brawl-

How about wolfri- Oh wait, you argument had a flaw that was way to obvious, this has to be a trap of some sort.

 

[[TSON]]

what casual that knows about brawl- and isnt afraid of hax isnt going to download brawl-

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Still, even casuals should play with FF Off.

 

[Hozu]

I'm still waiting for a real reason for the Ike/FF problem here.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

I fail too see the problem here personally...seriously, who cares. Its a humorous side effect for the very, very, VERY small percentage of casuals who bother playing Teams with FF off and have Brawl - in the first place...basically, just you. The team has far better things to be doing with their time then dealing with a pointless complaint.

 

[Pierce7d]

So, I'd just like to congratulate the designers and let you know that NJ LOVES -. We had a side tourney yesterday, and though I personally didn't get to enter, it was as blast to play. We had half the stations set up for minus, and everyone loved it.

Kirk, disregard everything I said talking about minus before. My fool of a friend that I was playing with was the laziest person I've ever known, and he only installed the Fighter Folder, without the entire B- patch. I was used to the Brawl- characters, but not with the proper physics. It's a different game, and Zelda is not broken

Pikachu is pretty boss though. Definitely won the tournament. Yoshi and Luigi are also destructive.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Glad you approve pierce.

@Hozu: I'd fix it if I knew wtf TSON did. Also, busy working on sonic.

 

[[TSON]]

Glad you approve pierce.

@Hozu: I'd fix it if I knew wtf TSON did. Also, busy working on sonic.

Uh, don't put this on me, it was Eldiran and his stealthhax

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Okay, eldiran. :V

 

[Hozu]

I don't know either, I looked at it and well... I don't know enough about PSA to know what the flags are in the collision lines.

 

[Wolfric]

I'll just ignore the trolling around, and still expecting an actual response of the team disregarding this, if possible, thanks in advance.

 

[Rkey]

I'll just ignore the trolling around, and still expecting an actual response of the team disregarding this, if possible, thanks in advance.

I'm sorry Wolfric, it's not trolling it's true. FF ON is standard wherever you go, and it really makes the game... better. FF OFF allows MILLIONS of broken and cheap strategies whereas FF ON enables a lot of interesting teamwork such as saving your friend by jumping off-stage uairing them.

You should really start playing with FF ON, because it's way more fun after you get used to it, and basically: noone cares about people who play with FF OFF.

Except me, but I'm really nice and want to help you :3

 

[Wolfric]

I'm sorry Wolfric, it's not trolling it's true. FF ON is standard wherever you go, and it really makes the game... better. FF OFF allows MILLIONS of broken and cheap strategies whereas FF ON enables a lot of interesting teamwork such as saving your friend by jumping off-stage uairing them.

You should really start playing with FF ON, because it's way more fun after you get used to it, and basically: noone cares about people who play with FF OFF.

Except me, but I'm really nice and want to help you :3

I know about it, I'm not the person that'd agree on playing with FF On, I host double tourneys as well as single tourneys, fact is, my real life friends aren't so much into Brawl, they help me with anything I need on my tournaments but that's about it, I showed 'em Brawl- and actually started playing it, so whenever we play we do Team Battles, but they refuse to do FF ON, they hate the idea of hitting their partners, so as i saw this thing with Ike I just came and asked about it and actually didn't expect responses like these, even thought I'm certain you guys are just making fun about it, it's something I was wondering if could be changed, not something to be flamed over, not everyone is into Brawl as most of you are, you can't force a random guy to Snake on F-Zero GX 'cause that's how the Pro plays, and if he doesn't he's scrub? Or force a guy playing FFVII to kill Ultima 'cause if he doesn't he's scrub? And yes, I'd really like if this could be fixed, would be much appreacited. (Waiting for random Scrub posts now <.<)

 

[Ulevo]

Guys, I know no tourney***s like ourselves would care about friendly fire being off, but the option is there for a reason. Smash is meant to be enjoyed by casual or competitive, and they should have that option.

Clearly, if no one cares about friendly fire off, you'll have no quarrels about removing Ike's FSmash edit for those select few who do care. Right?

 

[kr3wman]

I don't really get what needs fixing.

 

[Rkey]

Ike hits with Foward Smash his team mates when playing with Friendly Fire OFF.

This is what he thinks needs to be changed. I don't get how it hits, if he means the wind effect than there's nothing we can do, and if it hits despite FF is turned OFF then it's probably hard coded into brawl to hit even though FF is OFF, which would be hilarious.

 

[Hozu]

It can't be from the wind effect, some of his other attacks have windboxes too (Fair IIRC), and other characters have windboxes too (most notably Pit).

 

[Wolfric]

Uh, it's not just Foward Smash, last night I noticed Down Smash and Up Smash also hit the partner XD

 

[theunabletable]

That's amazing lol.

Pikachu is pretty boss though. Definitely won the tournament. Yoshi and Luigi are also destructive.

MK is amazing, too. Top 5 atleast.

 

[Derressh]

MK is amazing, too. Top 5 atleast.

Yeah, but nobody mentions MK because he may still be top 5, but for him, that's a downgrade. :3

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Does anyone agree that we really, really, REALLY should nerf MK's jab? Just make it smaller and raise it just a wee bit. It's totally busted against some recoveries, some people like Mario or Peach (yeah, PEACH) can't recover against it at all!

 

[Nelo Vergil]

It probably doesnt need to spike so bad, but Ive never thought it was broken, but its never been an issue as far as I noticed, but I can see recoveries like that could suffer, specially on FD

 

[Inferno3044]

There is such a ridiculous amount of hit stun and shield stun in the game. Being able to combo is good, but I think the they're seriously too much. Being able to combo is good and should be an aspect, but there are such stupid things that happen. I take about 70% because i get hit by Pikachu's Tjolt. Yoshi 0-deaths the whole cast because he can combo the **** out of people and just read them with his amazing aerial mobility and 2 jumps and kill with Uair and can also combo with eggs. Shield stun lasts so long that shield is basically useless. You can't do anything out of shield because you're in shield stun for such a long time and almost everything is safe on block. At the very least, put a lot less stun on projectiles.

 

[Derressh]

There is such a ridiculous amount of hit stun and shield stun in the game. Being able to combo is good, but I think the they're seriously too much. Being able to combo is good and should be an aspect, but there are such stupid things that happen.

You sound like me when I first started playing it. The combo-ability is what MAKES B-. Remember, this isn't Brawl with it's next to zero hit stun. You do get used to it after a while.

I take about 70% because i get hit by Pikachu's Tjolt. Yoshi 0-deaths the whole cast because he can combo the **** out of people and just read them with his amazing aerial mobility and 2 jumps and kill with Uair and can also combo with eggs.

1 attack leading into a 70% combo...sounds a bit like Melee or 64, doesn't it?
And I do kind of agree that Yoshi has amazing combo potential. But being able to read people is as much a trait of the player as it is the character. Yoshi just happens to be able to take full advantage of how well the player can read his opponent.

Shield stun lasts so long that shield is basically useless. You can't do anything out of shield because you're in shield stun for such a long time and almost everything is safe on block. At the very least, put a lot less stun on projectiles.

Don't shield? Or at the very least, learn to Powershield better. Again, I must reiterate, this is not Brawl, the shield is not the all-powerful weapon that it used to be.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Yoshi is too good, learn to powershield, don't block as much.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

I never thought Yoshi was special, but Ive never played him truthfully. Not a fan of the cutseylike characters, though Im slightly curious how Yoshi pulls that off. The best Ive gotten in a match was with Link for about 85% from 0% all from my friends Falcon's one mistake.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Some launcher->uair->uair->uair. He basically farts 0-deaths.

 

[theunabletable]

Does anyone agree that we really, really, REALLY should nerf MK's jab? Just make it smaller and raise it just a wee bit. It's totally busted against some recoveries, some people like Mario or Peach (yeah, PEACH) can't recover against it at all!

They can't sweetspot the ledge?

Sounds gay... so it fits too much for MK for us to get rid of it

I honestly haven't experimented with his jab much. So far I've only really been using it as a setup for Dtilt and stuff like that. I didn't realize it apparently ***** some recoveries haha

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Oh yeah. Play around with it a little; you cannot sweetspot against him with quite a few characters; they languish in midair, eat ****, and DIE.

 

[Ulevo]

You sound like me when I first started playing it. The combo-ability is what MAKES B-. Remember, this isn't Brawl with it's next to zero hit stun. You do get used to it after a while.

So what if it isn't Brawl? That doesn't actually matter. He's not complaining about hit stun. He's complaining about too much hit stun. Which I agree with.

There are times where I will go to combo, connect the first hit, drop the combo, and still manage to follow up before they can escape.

Don't shield? Or at the very least, learn to Powershield better. Again, I must reiterate, this is not Brawl, the shield is not the all-powerful weapon that it used to be.

Again, he's complaining about there being too much shield stun. Which I also agree with. I also agree that shields are near useless in this game. In fact, it's more dangerous to shield.

You advocate the strategy of avoiding shield use, but that's not a strategy. That's neglecting a vital mechanic in Smash.

I personally feel the shield stun needs to be toned down enough to allow for shields to be used against laggy, poorly spaced, punishable attacks, while still be subjected to shield pressure by well spaced, high knock back, fast attacks.

As it stands now, there is no strategy involved in using, or attacking shields.

I've already expressed these concerns to Cadet, which he disagrees with. I'd be interested in seeing others opinions on the subject.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Lucas's PKT2 dies to MK's jab every time. Testing further moves.
EDIT:
Mario's upB will never get through.
DK's upB will never get through.

Kirby's upB *might* get through with perfect spacing. He can recover high (kinda?), but MK can block his options there.

Marth's upB can get around it due to its immense speed. However, then you have marth on the ledge... very few viable options against MK, especially ones that don't get beaten by JAB.

Fox's upB... can't believe I'm even testing this one. Gets *****. SideB could be an option? It probably has the same speed options that Dolphin Slash does. SideB->nair seems like a promising potential counter, if timed right.

Luigi's upB actually got through jab by abusing his ****ing absurd air speed. The ****. What happened was not that luigi upb->ledgegrabbed, it was that he upB'd, went into specialfall, and then snapped onto the ledge. It's his air speed combined with his ledgegrab range.

Diddy's upB... not even close. Might dislodge MK from the edge he's on if it flies right, but if you hit him even once, he is a dead ape. SideB? Same deal.

Metaknight... what the hell do you think? Jab wrecks tornado, Cape, and Drill, but shuttle loop works great against it. Plus, recovering high-ever heard of it?

Ike's Aether is the first move I'm expecting to beat jab... And yeah, Aether outright destroys MK's jab at the edge. No doing that against ike. Except you can still gimp ike with dair and the like. Oh well.

Falco: see fox, except falco can recovery high pretty successfully.

Peach: Parasol can actually beat jab, if your timing/spacing is good.

Bowser: Metaknight used Jab! It had no effect! ****ing bowser used whirlwind! Metaknight was blown away!

King DDD: Not a ****ing chance. Actually, on the way up, he has super armor. If you use upB early enough, you could probably get by it. Recover high.

Ness: Can actually grab the ledge. PKT2 has invincibility? O.o

Wolf: Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Time your jabs well, MKs. Wolf Flash or whatever it's called could probabably work decently as well.

Yoshi: his jumps have super armor, his upB is a projectile. He's fine.

Wario: Good luck getting this slippery mofo into a situation where you can jab **** him. That said, a poorly-spaced jump, bike, or upB (poorly-spaced meaning coming into your jab range) will get *****. RAAAPED

Pikachu: I don't even want to test this. Pikachu gets around the jab so easy, the AI is ****ing LAUGHING at me.

Lucas: Yeah, he has nothing. He gets ***** by this. COMPLETELY *****.

ROB: Not testing this one. Get out. Sure, his B-moves are vulnerable, but he should not be hovering close to you anyways.

Lucario: Hit or miss. Well-timed jabs will break his extremespeed in half, but he can rocket anyways, so this is a moot point. Not that useful.

Squirtle: Gets his recovery wrecked. Best bet: use sideB from a good ways up. Sad.

Ivysaur: Tethers work well against this. Still gets gimped pretty hard by the rest of MK's moves.

Charizard: not a chance in hell. Charizard gets his *** gimped by MK really, really hard.

Jiggs: Jiggs can just jump right the **** around this. Jump in and fair (****ing fast ****) or just airdodge to the other side. Not worthwhile.

TL: Beats upB. TL needs to just chuck a bomb at it. Either way he's gonna get gimped though.

Link: upB can hit you, but you're more likely than not to kill link. Hookshot doesn't work either. See TL.

Zelda: a well-spaced upB will **** your spacing. Don't use this on zelda; gimping her is ****ing tricky. Pretend you are ganon and **** her onstage.

Sheik: Like Zelda, just sans the "well spaced". UpB destroys you.

Ganon: Seems like ganon's upB will always go through this. Even if it doesn't, watch out for the world of hurt coming from that dark shoryuken. Go gimp him offstage wussy.

Samus: Her ledge grab range is obscenely large. Go gimp her offstage; she's easy bait, just not for jab.

ZSS: Tether. Again. See Ivysaur, except she isn't that easy to gimp.

Pit: See ROB. Chase this ****er offstage.

CF: Sometimes gets through with upB. Haven't tested sideB, I really doubt it though.

Snake: Armor on cypher, C4 blast recovery, the ability to **** your **** up with nades... don't try this on him.

Sonic: Should not ever work on a competent sonic. Ever. Spring is just too high.

G&W: Gets to the ledge... Lousy G&W.

Olimar: Can tether up.

ICs: Abuses their recovery. BAD.

 

[Ulevo]

Lucas's PKT2 dies to MK's jab every time. Testing further moves.
EDIT:
Mario's upB will never get through.
DK's upB will never get through.

Is his jab really necessary when considering he has his Dair to use for edge guarding?

I'm thinking of doing a .pac for Meta Knight.

 

[Rkey]

Is his jab really necessary when considering he has his Dair to use for edge guarding?

I'm thinking of doing a .pac for Meta Knight.

I'll beat you to it, I've already assigned too (by own will, but whatever). We could cooperate if you wish =)

 

[Ulevo]

I'll beat you to it, I've already assigned too (by own will, but whatever). We could cooperate if you wish =)

Sounds good to me.

 

[Alphatron]

I agree that there is little point in shielding in this game, especially if you're playing against Ganondorf or Jigglypuff. It still has its occasional uses against chars like Sheik and ZSS.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'll beat you to it, I've already assigned too (by own will, but whatever). We could cooperate if you wish =)

****-a-doodle-doo, dicktree mcGee.

I agree that there is little point in shielding in this game, especially if you're playing against Ganondorf or Jigglypuff. It still has its occasional uses against chars like Sheik and ZSS.

You think that's bad? Blocking against MK opens you up to a free Jab, Dtilt... EVERYTHING MK has except cape and tornado is safe on block. Most of his moves can lead into further moves on block.

EDIT: I found how shield is useful guys! Powershielding! Lrn2!