Brawl-: 1.5-1.6 thread archive. 2.0 is stickied

[[TSON]]

Sooo.... Is there anyone who hard-counters Shiek? I've tried ROB, Bowser, Samus, and Wolf, and none of them work. Shiek is actually starting to piss me off a bit. She needs some sort of nerf in my opinion. When you can just go invisible and needle camp people then sneak up and down smash people, it's pretty dumb. Almost everything goes through Bowser's heavy armor. Idk, it's just stupidly hard to have correct DI when you don't know what's coming. It makes fighting her even harder. Would it be possible to have it so the tag never goes away? If not, at least make her needles charge like they do in vBrawl. They're way too fast in Minus.

/johns

Sheik... Hmm...

Yoshi... and Pikachu? Ness maybe cause of fair outspacing pretty much anything.. Jigglypuff. Oh and snake's shielddropped nades **** shiek up the butt :B

 

[Zwarm]

Well, Yoshi, Jigglypuff and Pikachu are fun. Maybe I'll try them out tomorrow if I hang out with my Shiek main friend again. I don't doubt that Snake could beat her either, but I don't like his playstyle in any of the games, it's just not for me. Thanks!

 

[stingers]

bowser > everything

 

[Zwarm]

You wish that was true, but almost everything Shiek has besides needles goes through his heavy armor. =/

And definitely Lucas > Bowser, at least when they are against each other.

 

[Fuujin]

Zelda can't ledge cancel
FFFFFFUUUUUUUU-

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I wrote out a basic (as in it is about as detailed as what is currently up for the other characters) character guide/discussion for Wolf, and I would like to know if there is anything for formatting that I should know about?

Just post it up and we'll see how it is.

Sooo.... Is there anyone who hard-counters Shiek? I've tried ROB, Bowser, Samus, and Wolf, and none of them work. Shiek is actually starting to piss me off a bit. She needs some sort of nerf in my opinion. When you can just go invisible and needle camp people then sneak up and down smash people, it's pretty dumb. Almost everything goes through Bowser's heavy armor. Idk, it's just stupidly hard to have correct DI when you don't know what's coming. It makes fighting her even harder. Would it be possible to have it so the tag never goes away? If not, at least make her needles charge like they do in vBrawl. They're way too fast in Minus.

/johns

Doesn't need to. She isn't massively overpowered. It's a little like Zelda-the more you know, the better you are. Need more matchup experience.

Zelda can't ledge cancel
FFFFFFUUUUUUUU-

What do you mean ledge cancel?

 

[Xyless]

What do you mean ledge cancel?

I can answer that. That's when she does her up special at a ledge, and if spaced perfectly, she lands, but has a little momentum that pushes her off the edge, letting her attack immediately.

An example video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3xYoBCRv8Y


Also, an update. Electrician is coming to my house today, so hopefully everything will start working again.

 

[UTDZac]

Brawl- Tourney!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271364

I have a few suggestions on what you guys should work on for the next release (if this is the right place to post this).

1. I feel like you guys made this too much like Brawl+ in certain aspects. The main part being the hit stun you get after getting hit. Now I realize it enables for more "combos", but in Brawl-, people can die relatively early, especially with the more powerful characters which makes hit stun kinda ********. The same aspect can be applied for shield grabbing. It's almost impossible to shield grab someone after you block their attack, because the hit stun lasts way too long for you to react. My tip would be to lessen the hit stun by a good amount, or take it out completely like it is in regular Brawl.

2. What is the purpose of this game exactly? Do you want tournies to host Brawl- tournaments? If so, I'm gonna find it super hard to make it balanced when everyone is so powerful. Personally, I find the most enjoyment while playing a FFA. This can even extend to casual players as well, since the game is more ridiculously fun and funny to play. So defining what the purpose of the game is gives you more room to focus on what should be done instead of fighting for everyone's happiness and making a not so good alternative version of Brawl. If you had to ask my opinion, I would focus on it being used mainly for friendlies and shenanigans, because the amount of ridiculous stuff that happens always has me laughing every other 10 seconds.

That's all for now. I've been playing the Beta since it came out, and finally decided to post my thoughts on what's what.

#1: I agree with this completely. The extra hitstun is nice in that we can combo like crazy, but its way too much... seriously. This is a major flaw of Brawl- for a few reasons:
1) Certain characters die WAY too early, like my favorite G&W, for 2-3 attacks alone.
2) It's really hard to shield grab people.
3) It's impossible to have fun playing teams. One person can get juggled easily until death and can't do anything about it. Because of this, G&W is practically useless in teams when he used to be a god-send.
4) And should I really be able to juggle my opponent with Ivysaur's uair 3-5 times in a row?

#2: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271364
What makes Brawl- so fun is the fact that all the characters are so powerful. What this means is you can pick up almost any character and destroy your opponent. You don't have to have months of playtime experience like you did in vBrawl. I enjoy now being able to play my other favorite characters like Pokemon Trainer and Zelda.
If anything Brawl- is more of a relief from the stress / camping / gay that comes from vBrawl, especially when playing with smart Brawl players.

 

[[TSON]]

Hitstun was the first thing we locked in. I don't think anybody on the team would really want to vote on a new value. It's grown on us. :/

1)G&W's weight was meganerfed is why
2) Shieldgrabbing was removed on purpose.
3) I can't say I agree tbh. That's probably the best part. You can work together with your teammate and collaboratively 0death someone, it's really fun. You just have to play differently and the matches usually don't last as long.
4) ....Yes.

ALSO: FAIR WARNING: DIDDY'S BARRELS (=_=) DESYNCH WIFI/REPLAYS AND ARE BEING LOOKED INTO.

Fixes for Fox, Lucario, Pit, and Marth are currently being playtested.

 

[Sinz]

Well, lower the shield stun. It is pretty ridiculous how useless shield grabbing is in B- :/

 

[[TSON]]

The whole point of raising it in the first place was to make it less effective. You can still do it, but like combos, it relies on your opponent fudging up by either using a high-hitlag attack on your shield, or allowing you by other means.

Not to mention if we lower it we'd have to go raise the damage on a crapload of other attacks that are supposed to pressure it (Falcon punch, Falcon kick, anything in sonic's moveset, among others), and then on top of that, triple warlock punch wouldn't work anymore unless we raised the damage past 666% T_T.

 

[SpongeJordan]

People, get this straight. THIS IS DIFFERENT FROM BRAWL. You might not like the same characters you do in vBrawl. That's just how it works.

 

[UTDZac]

Can anyone explain to me what happened to pokemon trainer?

Regardless of if I select PT or one of the three characters on the CSS, I always have the PT in the background (in other words no wild pokemon). I'm cool with this, but when I die I always come back as the same pokemon. I can still switch really fast, so its not that big of a deal, but why?

Or am I doing something wrong.

 

[Nelo Vergil]

I seen no problems with the shield or hit stun, you can shield grab still, however stronger moves create more stun, it makes sense, your sacrificing recovery time for protection. If you dont want to worry about shield stun, dodge the move then or counter it, I have yet to notice any really unfair shield breaker (Sonic comes close though). As for Hitstun, the value can get a little tedious at times, and it can mean some really strange deaths, but its never truely a problem, it's not like DI doesnt exsist anymore, you dont want to be juggled, DI away until you yourself can counter moves.

Everything is broken, so nothing truely is, just use your characters strengths to avoid their weaknesses (such as G&W getting KO'd easy), thats the beauty of Minus

 

[Revven]

Can anyone explain to me what happened to pokemon trainer?

Regardless of if I select PT or one of the three characters on the CSS, I always have the PT in the background (in other words no wild pokemon). I'm cool with this, but when I die I always come back as the same pokemon. I can still switch really fast, so its not that big of a deal, but why?

Or am I doing something wrong.

On respawn (do it right as you die preferably), hold L/R to switch on death.

Edit: Just so you all know about hitstun, it's high for a reason, the game is meant to be broken. Even if they DID lower the value, it wouldn't change hitstun much at all, if you wanted a significant hitstun change it'd have to be a whole 10% lower (which is basically Brawl+'s hitstun or around there) which would then not really make Brawl- a whole lot different from Brawl+ gameplay mechanics wise.

It would also slow the game down a whole lot more. And no, changing .54 to .5 wouldn't make much of a difference at all (just to be clear). It just isn't the team's vision to make the hitstun any lower than it currently is. Just go with Isai's old philosophy of "don't get hit" even if it is obscure and absurd.

 

[BacklashMarth]

I only ask this because I'm curious, but why was marth's dancing blade changed in midair? I'm sure it probably was an intentional nerf, but I just want to understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well, lower the shield stun. It is pretty ridiculous how useless shield grabbing is in B- :/

So? Shieldgrabbing is a campy defensive techniques. Depending on character, scoring a grab could mean the start of a brutal combo (Ness Dthrow, Sonic Uthrow, DK fthrow, G&W Uthrow), or a kill around 70-90 (Ness Bthrow, DK Bthrow, Zelda Bthrow/Uthrow, etc.), so it's also quite reasonable to nerf the grab mechanic. Essentially, we nerfed the most effective defensive technique in the game and buffed what happens when you abuse the same mechanic agressively. Make sense?

Can anyone explain to me what happened to pokemon trainer?

Regardless of if I select PT or one of the three characters on the CSS, I always have the PT in the background (in other words no wild pokemon). I'm cool with this, but when I die I always come back as the same pokemon. I can still switch really fast, so its not that big of a deal, but why?

Or am I doing something wrong.

No swap on death, hold L/R to swap.

On respawn (do it right as you die preferably), hold L/R to switch on death.

Edit: Just so you all know about hitstun, it's high for a reason, the game is meant to be broken. Even if they DID lower the value, it wouldn't change hitstun much at all, if you wanted a significant hitstun change it'd have to be a whole 10% lower (which is basically Brawl+'s hitstun or around there) which would then not really make Brawl- a whole lot different from Brawl+ gameplay mechanics wise.

It would also slow the game down a whole lot more. And no, changing .54 to .5 wouldn't make much of a difference at all (just to be clear). It just isn't the team's vision to make the hitstun any lower than it currently is. Just go with Isai's old philosophy of "don't get hit" even if it is obscure and absurd.

Thank you, Falco400.

Also, Brawl- teams works just fine. It's just... different.

Shield stun is definitely not going down. Hitstun may go down eventually, but most likely not.

EDIT: Marth's aerial DB glitched up on us. A marth fix is in the works.

 

[Xyless]

Can anyone explain to me what happened to pokemon trainer?

Regardless of if I select PT or one of the three characters on the CSS, I always have the PT in the background (in other words no wild pokemon). I'm cool with this, but when I die I always come back as the same pokemon. I can still switch really fast, so its not that big of a deal, but why?

Or am I doing something wrong.

I was ultimately the one who decided to remove the Individual Pokemon code, due to the fact that it...has no purpose with how we set up the Pokemon death code (shield during death to change).

One problem that we're going to fix with the next iteration is the PT CSS problem, which is the fact that PT has a far higher chance of being randomed than the others, which is a simple fix...just remove the Pokemon from the CSS.

 

[NatP]

Hum yeah so I tried playing Brawl- on my european wii, using the instructions on the OP. But it doesn't work properly. All that happens is I get brawl only with 5 stocks and more hitstun. That's it. Is this supposed to happen or did I mess something up?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hum yeah so I tried playing Brawl- on my european wii, using the instructions on the OP. But it doesn't work properly. All that happens is I get brawl only with 5 stocks and more hitstun. That's it. Is this supposed to happen or did I mess something up?

Rename the folder RSBE to RSBP and get rid of common3.pac

 

[NatP]

I already did that before but the same thing happened. :/

 

[[TSON]]

It doesn't have PAL file patch lol

 

[DunnoBro]

Why are so many people complaining about shield stun? :/

The ONLY problem I have with it, is that I'm SOOOOO used to it in vbrawl, the muscle memory takes over and makes me try to grab 2 seconds sooner than when I wanted, and leave myself open.

You can still shield-grab if you powershield, too.

Shieldgrabbing still happens fairly often, too. Characters with weaker, multi-hit type attacks leave little(if any?) shieldstun and can be grabbed OOS.

I think we've all grown a bit too reliant on this easily performed defensive tactic.

 

[PwnerBren7]

Did anyone fix the Textures/Brstms on Wi-Fi D/Cing / all D/Cing problems?

 

[Revven]

Textures/custom songs don't cause desyncing.

 

[Yoshara]

I forgot to post in here when I made this, but I started the Wolf - guide.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271335

 

[Fuujin]

Zelda's ledge cancel was one of her tricks.
It's nice you can't go offstage with it but it's sort of a safety net for noobs with her, most good players didn't SD with it.
Also why can't you change tags online?

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I already did that before but the same thing happened. :/

Directories to "fighter"?

It doesn't have PAL file patch lol

Yes it does.

I forgot to post in here when I made this, but I started the Wolf - guide.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=271335

Nice guide.

Zelda's ledge cancel was one of her tricks.
It's nice you can't go offstage with it but it's sort of a safety net for noobs with her, most good players didn't SD with it.
Also why can't you change tags online?

It's less of a safety net for noobs and more of a "haha I can spike you now". Check the changelist to upB; it's pretty cool.

 

[Fuujin]

Well what about the changing tags online?
I can't play right because I have R set to attack for Dacus and L set to jump for Love Jumping, x is my grab button and Z is for block.
So whenever I try to block with standard controls I grab and when I try to grab I jump, due to habit of playing with altered controls. ]:

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Well what about the changing tags online?
I can't play right because I have R set to attack for Dacus and L set to jump for Love Jumping, x is my grab button and Z is for block.
So whenever I try to block with standard controls I grab and when I try to grab I jump, due to habit of playing with altered controls. ]:

I don't know...

 

[Nelo Vergil]

So would it be ok too try and create a tourney for Minus over wifi, for more pre-liminary testing. Also, our next tourney here I plan to get Minus as a side event for sure

EDIT: Btw, will Wolf's F-smash be fixed, it killed me like 3 times because of that strange push at 0% and I literally couldnt jump, attack, anything to escape being pushed off screen. Again, for emphasize, at 0% X_X

 

[Tarmogoyf]

So is there any chance of making this compatible for SDHC? Everyone else in NM has B- working fine, but I can't get it to work on my SD card because it's SDHC

 

[[TSON]]

You can change tags online... The marker is still in your hand, but you can.

 

[Denzi]

The only complaint I have about the shieldstun in this game are characters like ZSS. I mean, her Jab is virtually unpunishable on shield, can be canceled into Dtilt for more shield pressure (and a shield poke more often than not), and she can start jabbing all over again until she gets through.

I also think she has a stupid amount of kill moves. Side B, down B, up B (spike or combo into Uair), usmash, fsmash, dsmash (setup into Bair), Back air, Uair, Fair, Dair (spike) are all kill moves. and the fact that Usmash is multi hit makes it even better, because if I'm on a platform I'm guaranteed to get knocked off/ shield poked, and if I'm in the air I can't airdodge through it. And Dtilt, which can be used out of dash attack, dsmash, paralyzer, and her 1 frame jab is also a good kill setup. And all of her aerials, in addition to being wicked killers, have insane priority, making them even better. And the stupid effect of her dthrow means that her grab (which can't really be spotdodged) is also a free kill.

And armor parts are stupid.

I guess I just have a problem in general vs Zamus. Any character that outright counters her? I haven't found one yet except Bowser, but he beats everyone.

 

[DunnoBro]

So is there any chance of making this compatible for SDHC? Everyone else in NM has B- working fine, but I can't get it to work on my SD card because it's SDHC

Fraid not.
You can load codes at startup to get colored shields, infinite zoom, and other ocarina codes. But file replacement needs to work DURING the game... be nice if it worked at start-up, but w.e


You may be able to use it via riivolution, but I know nothing about that, being a pirate and all.

 

[Zeratulfenix]

Im surprised Ike doesnt have the "I fight for my friends" SFX on any of his moves.

 

[DunnoBro]

Be cool if he said it during the lag of the healing aether

 

[Yoshara]

At the very least, it is his Side-Taunt now, but then again...

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

So is there any chance of making this compatible for SDHC? Everyone else in NM has B- working fine, but I can't get it to work on my SD card because it's SDHC

Brawl hacks will never be SDHC compatible. Sorry.

The only complaint I have about the shieldstun in this game are characters like ZSS. I mean, her Jab is virtually unpunishable on shield, can be canceled into Dtilt for more shield pressure (and a shield poke more often than not), and she can start jabbing all over again until she gets through.

I also think she has a stupid amount of kill moves. Side B, down B, up B (spike or combo into Uair), usmash, fsmash, dsmash (setup into Bair), Back air, Uair, Fair, Dair (spike) are all kill moves. and the fact that Usmash is multi hit makes it even better, because if I'm on a platform I'm guaranteed to get knocked off/ shield poked, and if I'm in the air I can't airdodge through it. And Dtilt, which can be used out of dash attack, dsmash, paralyzer, and her 1 frame jab is also a good kill setup. And all of her aerials, in addition to being wicked killers, have insane priority, making them even better. And the stupid effect of her dthrow means that her grab (which can't really be spotdodged) is also a free kill.

And armor parts are stupid.

I guess I just have a problem in general vs Zamus. Any character that outright counters her? I haven't found one yet except Bowser, but he beats everyone.

I've never seen a problem with her... anyone else?

 

[NatP]

Yes, directories to fighter.
Eh, I think it's probably I did on my sd card. I'll try playing brawl- when the official Pal release comes out. :/