Bowsercide Cancel

[KingKong_ad]

Bowsercide cancel for people who doesnt know its simply when bowser is doing a bowsercide with his SideB (Klaw) but when the opponent die, there is a little time for bowser to jump before he reaches the death zone. In almost all stage bowser still cant survive to it due to his bad vertical recovery.

Im actually doing test with the bowsercide cancel. Im gonna try to update this thread everytimes I find something.

There are 3 factors: Stages, Characters and Port Priority

Stages

Smashville

I still dont know why but doing a bowsercide cancel on this stage is really easy.

For the tests I try these things:

- Trying to bowsercide cancel by only mashing jump on normal speed
- Trying to bowsercide cancel by only mashing jump on 1\4 of the normal speed

On some characters its easy to do it on both tests ( Easy )
Some only on the 2nd test ( Normal )
Some impossible on both tests ( Hard )

I also noticed for the characters that is easy to do on, on 1\4 speed we clearly see the opponent dieing before bowser. For those who is normal to do on, we see just a little bit the opponent dieing before bowser. For those who is hard to do on, we both see characters dieing in the same time.



Characters

Here the characters listed by how difficult is to do a bowsercide cancel on Smashville.

Easy

-Game & Watch
-Ivysaur
-Jigglypuff
-King Dedede
-Kirby
-Lucas
-Mario
-Meta Knight
-Ness
-Olimar
-Pikachu
-Popo\Nana
-Squirtle
-Toon Link
-Wario
-Yoshi

Normal

-Charizard
-Diddy Kong
-Luigi
-Sonic
-Zero Suit Samus

Hard

-Bowser
-Captain Falcon
-Donkey Kong
-Falco
-Fox
-Ganondorf
-Ike
-Link
-Lucario
-Marth
-Peach
-Pit
-R.O.B.
-Samus
-Sheik
-Snake
-Wolf
-Zelda

Characters listed as hard can still be bowsercide cancel but not by mashing the jump button. You have to find the timing and pressing jump once and you will perform it. Im guessing there is a small window to do it like 1-4 frames maybe ?? Need more analyses.


Why there is a difference between characters ?? For the moment im not able to see what relates them.


Also a lot of areas in Delfino act like Smashville



Final Destination

I tried some characters on FD and all of them seem to be listed as Hard on this stage cuz when the speed is on 1\4 we still see both characters dieing on the same time.

Why there is a difference between stages ?? I still dont know...


Port Priority

I just did one test for the moment on this but Im almost sure it is related.
I did my test on Smashville when bowser tries to do a bowsercide.

When bowser has the port 1 and the opponent the port 4

-The game always ends with bowser winning the match.

When bowser has the port 4 and the opponent the port 1

-The game ends with a win with bowser when the opponent is a character listed
as ''Easy''

-The game ends with a sudden death when the opponent is character listed
as ''Normal'' or ''Hard''

Im assuming the port priority has something to do with the numbers of frames you can do a bowsercide.


Im gonna do more tests with more stages eventually.

 

[Luigi player]

lol I didn't know it was possible ^^ maybe Bowser could be a good team character with this...

MK & Bowser on smashville... MK could safe Bowser easily when he jumps back again.

 

[Sliq]

You should do a test on Norfair, because you have Snake as listed as hard and I was landing it consistently against him. Maybe it has to do with the drop height, where as the higher you fall from, the easier it is to cancel.

You might want to make a HUGE custom stage for this and test it.

 

[KingKong_ad]

Yeah im gonna try this too, my next tests will be on norfair and brinstar probably.

 

[saviorslegacy]

I'm interested... video please.

 

[Kofu]

It's been known for a while, but more research is nice.

 

[Kitamerby]

I had no idea Bowser could win a bowsercide as Port 4.

Research is good.

 

[MrEh]

Living on PS2 is the geatest moral victory ever.

 

[B!squick]

Living on PS2 is the geatest moral victory ever.

PS2 was the best system ever. Did you see that God of War collection for the PS3? The only difference is that everything looks ever so slightly foggier. :/

Also, King, try not to delve too deep into this. I like Bowsercides being auto wins.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Yeah this is old to even me because of Phiddlesticks.

 

[Sliq]

Right, but the video didn't go in depth to research how to replicate this or why there are variables that effect the difficulty, and what those variables are.

The next person to say they already knew that get's punched in the face for missing the point.

 

[B!squick]

Right, but the video didn't go in depth to research how to replicate this or why there are variables that effect the difficulty, and what those variables are.

The next person to say they already knew that get's punched in the face for missing the point.

Ditto this. lrn 2 lurk moar

 

[Mr. Escalator]

The video itself perhaps didn't explain how to do it, but the video wasn't a standalone thing; it was explained in YOUR thread, Sliq, how to do it (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6595378&postcount=13). Furthermore, in that same post it mentioned that stages play a part. Although he neglected to mention it in his post, he's told people over IRC (a long time back actually) that characters are a variable too.

"why there are variables that effect the difficulty"
The topic fails to address this as well.

The only thing that this has done is point out that controller port is also a variable. For a research thread this is pretty weak. It doesn't explain why this is, nor is it indepth. Also, you don't post unfinished research like this unless you are requesting help from the community to fill in the blanks. He should of actually asked for help or not posted this without it being completed to a point of satisfaction.

Frankly, this thread is just a heads up for those who didnt know how to do it, that characters had a difference in the difficulty (not really tested beyond smashville), and port priority does determine the how much leeway you have.

This thread is barely a step up from "Hey guys this is how you cancel bowsercides", hence why I approached it like I did.


Not to mention I like to namedrop Phiddlesticks LOL

 

[Hobobloke]

The video itself perhaps didn't explain how to do it, but the video wasn't a standalone thing; it was explained in YOUR thread, Sliq, how to do it (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6595378&postcount=13). Furthermore, in that same post it mentioned that stages play a part. Although he neglected to mention it in his post, he's told people over IRC (a long time back actually) that characters are a variable too.

"why there are variables that effect the difficulty"
The topic fails to address this as well.

The only thing that this has done is point out that controller port is also a variable. For a research thread this is pretty weak. It doesn't explain why this is, nor is it indepth. Also, you don't post unfinished research like this unless you are requesting help from the community to fill in the blanks. He should of actually asked for help or not posted this without it being completed to a point of satisfaction.

Frankly, this thread is just a heads up for those who didnt know how to do it, that characters had a difference in the difficulty (not really tested beyond smashville), and port priority does determine the how much leeway you have.

This thread is barely a step up from "Hey guys this is how you cancel bowsercides", hence why I approached it like I did.


Not to mention I like to namedrop Phiddlesticks LOL

It's a step up from your useless posts, if you don't have anything constructive to add you can take your negative nancy posts out of the thread.

It's more of a place where we can discuss it, throw out ideas, and keep our progress on testing in one easy to access place.

 

[PUNK9]

is this what your talking aboutt.?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUJUrgDSm14

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Yeah brah, thats been around for ages, though thanks Punk for finding that. Phiddlestick's is mainly about showcasing where you can survive your own bowsercides.

It's also funny that you claim his post is a step up from mine. It's funny because it's blatantly untrue HEH. My criticism is constructive, I don't know why you think it's not; I suggested he should actually compile more research before posting or request help from other bowser mainers.

Regardless, I don't have anything against the OP. It's just the silly other bowser folk saying was unwarranted, to which I explained otherwise. Now dont let me stop your discussion! Carry on with talking about Bowsercide canceling.

Actually I want to throw something out there, though its not a new idea by any means. I think the next SBR ruleset should remove the bowsercide rule because of this technique. Really, being able to do this kills the rule entirely; if it ends in sudden death or whatnot it's the Bowser's fault for not delaying it. I think they will already be removing this outdated rule but its always good to remind people why it should be gone.

 

[Flayl]

Why on earth should it be gone?

 

[Hobobloke]

You didn't exactly put "it needs more research" in the nicest way...

Why would they get rid of it? it's the same as any other suicide rule, and the Bowser player shouldn't be punished if they're on a stage which has one of the hard escapes to time.

 

[Flayl]

Not to mention Bowser wins regardless of what you do if you have the lower port number...

There's no way around it, removing the suicide rule is plain stupid.

 

[Mr. Escalator]

Bowser has the only suicide where if it ends in a draw he wins. The others suffer from the percent ruling. Without mentioning this tech it's still an iffy rule. However, with this technique, it's really only the Bowser's fault for not doing it correctly, even with varying difficulty.

If you have the lower port and win, you win regardless. If Bowser's klaw results in a sudden death scenario, then he should lose it for not doing the cancel. The difficulty of performing this doesnt really come into play at all.

By removing this rule it just makes it similar to other suicide moves. It doesn't penalize him more than others, just doesnt cater to him.

 

[Flayl]

Maybe if I bold it you'll realize where the stupid part of it lies

If you have the lower port and win, you win regardless. [If Bowser has higher port number], then he should lose it for not doing the cancel. The difficulty of performing this doesnt really come into play at all.

Do you even know why the rule exists in the first place?

 

[Mr. Escalator]

It's because of Port discrepancies, making it so that port didnt decide the fate of the match. However, even when you have a higher port you can win now, so it should really be scraped.

The only stupid thing is that it's still a rule.

 

[exdia_16]

i need a video

 

[J4pu]

i need a video

lol, lrn2read previous posts

 

[Sliq]

The video itself perhaps didn't explain how to do it, but the video wasn't a standalone thing; it was explained in YOUR thread, Sliq, how to do it (http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=6595378&postcount=13). Furthermore, in that same post it mentioned that stages play a part. Although he neglected to mention it in his post, he's told people over IRC (a long time back actually) that characters are a variable too.

"why there are variables that effect the difficulty"
The topic fails to address this as well.

The only thing that this has done is point out that controller port is also a variable. For a research thread this is pretty weak. It doesn't explain why this is, nor is it indepth. Also, you don't post unfinished research like this unless you are requesting help from the community to fill in the blanks. He should of actually asked for help or not posted this without it being completed to a point of satisfaction.

Frankly, this thread is just a heads up for those who didnt know how to do it, that characters had a difference in the difficulty (not really tested beyond smashville), and port priority does determine the how much leeway you have.

This thread is barely a step up from "Hey guys this is how you cancel bowsercides", hence why I approached it like I did.


Not to mention I like to namedrop Phiddlesticks LOL

My post wasn't directly aimed at you so much as you and the 8 other people that said the same thing. I also fail to see how showing that there are character variables to the ease of the technique is not in and of itself extremely helpful, regardless of how "complete" the research is.

Also, that link you sent was pretty much a one liner that gave us useful info, but didn't really go into great detail, which was what I was hoping this thread would do. For example, giving us FRAME DATA on the window of opportunity (does anyone know how to do this?).

I had planned on doing this testing myself, but I went to a tournament this weekend, so it'll have to wait until I'm done making animated gifs of Bowser's hitboxes. Does anyone want individual frames of the move as jpegs, or would a slowmo gif be fine?

Also, we might want to research WHY you can't mash jump on the "hard" ones, whether it is because of a similar mechanic to meteor canceling (you can't mash jump to perform it), or if it is merely a timing issue, and the jump can not be buffered. I surmise it is the latter, because it makes the most sense. If that is the case, than you can do what people do in Street Fighter 3: 3rd Strike in order to increase your chances of survival.

In 3S, supers were qc, qc, punch or kick (qc = quarter circle). You could increase your chances of supering by sliding your finger across all three punches or kicks after the double qc's, allowing you to input the command 3 times as opposed to just once (for characters who had supers that didn't vary depending on which button you used).

In Brawl, what you could also do is use x, y, and up on the control stick in a similar fashion, one right after the other in quick succession to hopefully cover multiple frames and increase your chances of survival. You could also set buttons you don't use to jump, if you really wanted to.

I'm sort of disappointed in the Bowser boards just because when Phiddlesticks discovered this, no one really went out of there way to try and study it until I proposed a question somewhere. I'd have done it myself at the time but I was in school, and I get ***** during my school quarter. Right now I'm interning so I have more time to do this sort research.

I disagree that the rule is obsolete now, just because there is still a port discrepancy. Even with this technique, should the ruling go based off of what the game said? If so, then we are right back to where we started from before this technique was found. I find it equally silly to make it a guaranteed loss on Bowser. It's a pretty difficult situation, to be sure.

If Bowser ALWAYS lost regardless of port, and the rule still stood for the initiator winning, then this technique would make the rule obsolete. The fact still stands that the port plays a big part of the rule, and port REALLY should have anything to do with this game in the least.