Bowser general discussion thread.

[GeZ]

I should have been more clear that this is very much a read, rather than just standard ledgeplay. It's something you might catch someone with once, but there are a lot of ways around it. Again, sorry for not being clear on that.

It's still a great idea. It's punishable but smashes through a lot of options. Seems like a nice trick if you find your opponent falling into a predictable recovery pattern. Plus it could function as a blanket read. For instance, you're not sure whether your opponent will get up attack, jump up from the ledge or wave land on. You're not confident enough to Koopa Klaw or use some other hard read, so you use Bowser Bomb to cover more options, and with a bit of mindgames, condition your opponent to use a stricter set of ledge recovery options.

 

[GeZ]

Also, what is the Smash's community on mindgames? I know in the Street Fighter community it's their bread and butter, but I haven't seen much mention of it in reference to any of the smash games.

 

[MegaGuy]

I've seen mindgames be really effective in Smash. I wish I could remember the specifics, but I saw a Falcon player stand there and do nothing for, like, the first minute and a half of a match, and when the Roy(?) player finally approached, Falcon 0-death'd him. Mindgames are good insofar that they can be used to abuse your opponents habits. If you can get your opponent to DI/react/play a certain way consistently, you have a huge advantage.

 

[GeZ]

Sweet. I was hoping they were an acknowledged part of the meta.

 

[MegaGuy]

Glad to help. If you want to see mindgames in action, specifically with Bowser, you should definitely check out some videos of Gimpy. Dude's mad smart.

 

[GeZ]

I lurv gimpy X3

 

[MegaGuy]

Hope it's cool if I post this here. Some ledge stuff I was messing around with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=HgotRSqiARg

Do with it what you will.

 

[Youngster Joey]

so far every mu seems like a bad mu for bowser.. well all the mus ive gone against (peach, wario, zelda, spacies, luigi). ive played a lot of them and i feel helpless on all of them. ive played a marth and felt pretty helpless in that too. but who do you guys think is our hardest mu? i wanna make a thread for that. if its an mu i faced so far i'll leave my methods to going about it and you guys can critique it and say whats wrong with it and what could be better. so far i think wario is my worst. spacies doesnt seem to bad if you're careful. zelda camps hard but it seems manageable. peach... idk what to do. so any suggestions?

 

[MegaGuy]

Wario's definitely a pain when he gets in. I've said this before, but Wario can really mess you up if you don't respond to one of his mix-ups correctly. If you can stop him from gaining momentum, you can swat him away with FAirs and Klaw. He doesn't really have the range to compete with Bowser's giant turtle arms, so keeping him out is your biggest priority. I'm sure you know this, but Wario likes to flutter just outside your range a la Jigglypuff, and wait for you to do something. It's his unique brand of aerial dash-dancing that makes fighting him so frustrating. One of the things that I use to a decent effect as Wario is FF Bite. I can't stress enough the fact that you want to avoid Bite at all costs. When The Fat Man starts getting it consistently, you'll find yourself in more and more bad situations. Wario also gimps like a madman, and you want to watch out for NAirs/FAirs offstage, they'll take your stock like that. Fortunately, his recovery is very mediocre, and hitting him after he's used his jump usually seals the deal.

I'm tired and don't feel like typing anymore stuff, but I'd definitely pop into that thread if you decide to make it. I'll also try to play a bunch at Zenith to further expand my MU knowledge. Hope I helped!

 

[Youngster Joey]

If anything I'll show up the second day of zenith. It's kind of expensive to get in and not even enter. And for one day. But I really hope I can since its down the street from me

And should I make a full mu discussion thread or individual ones like we have for wario already?

 

[MegaGuy]

Probably better to make a MU discussion thread, and expand it from there. Definitely let me know if you're gonna go to Zenith. Bowser dittos son!

 

[Youngster Joey]

im sorry to say but idk if its worth the 25$ to get in for friendlies. although i really wanna expose wizzy jk idk if i can do that. but bowser might be able to crouch. i have a plan for sonic. i wanna keep it to myself till i test it out tho but it might be a basic gameplan for bowser. its kind of a sissy playstyle but oh well haha

 

[GeZ]

im sorry to say but idk if its worth the 25$ to get in for friendlies. although i really wanna expose wizzy jk idk if i can do that. but bowser might be able to crouch. i have a plan for sonic. i wanna keep it to myself till i test it out tho but it might be a basic gameplan for bowser. its kind of a sissy playstyle but oh well haha

If it at all involves crouch cancelling, it might not go over as well as you'd think. From what I've heard and experienced when fighting Sonic is that most of his attacks (SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN) beat crouch cancelling outright. And if you do find a strategy for fighting sonic, I'm all ears. In my experience I've had the best time just fortressing for days and crying while Sonic rolls on places Bowser didn't know could be rolled on.

 

[Planet Piss]

If it at all involves crouch cancelling, it might not go over as well as you'd think. From what I've heard and experienced when fighting Sonic is that most of his attacks (SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN) beat crouch cancelling outright. And if you do find a strategy for fighting sonic, I'm all ears. In my experience I've had the best time just fortressing for days and crying while Sonic rolls on places Bowser didn't know could be rolled on.

Yeah, crouch cancelling Sonic's spin bs will involve Bowser taking a ton of damage and having every possible option out of said crouch cancel interrupted by a constantly refreshing hitbox that prevents anything but pain on Bowser's behalf. Up+B Clanks too.

 

[GeZ]

Christ almighty. So how are you supposed to beat Sonic consistently? You could focus on Bowser's much greater priority on his moves but that can only get you so far. Though I can see Nair being your friend in that fight.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Up B clanks with spindash on startup

 

[GeZ]

Damn. How well does Bowser edge guard and gimp Sanic?

 

[Planet Piss]

Fair beats most of Sonic's things. Armored smashes, nair, and well-placed shell moves (bair and dair) go through Sonic pretty much no matter what he's doing given that the shell doesn't have hurtboxes (I think). Just don't cc and try to predict HA and other such approaches.

 

[GeZ]

I've been wondering about the utility of some of Bowser's moves, and I was thinking this was the best thread to ask in. What's a good situation to use Bowser's Ftilt? And why would you ever use his Dair over his Nair? I usually use his Utilt when someone's on a platform above me, and sometimes when they're falling down towards me. I use fire breath to get space sometimes but I'm really just implementing that because I've heard, it's supposed to be used like that.

 

[Planet Piss]

I've been wondering about the utility of some of Bowser's moves, and I was thinking this was the best thread to ask in. What's a good situation to use Bowser's Ftilt? And why would you ever use his Dair over his Nair? I usually use his Utilt when someone's on a platform above me, and sometimes when they're falling down towards me. I use fire breath to get space sometimes but I'm really just implementing that because I've heard, it's supposed to be used like that.

I love Bowser's dair to the point of spamming, or at least borderline. It's like a drill that does a bunch of damage, breaks shields, and has two far side hitboxes on either side of the shell when Bowser hits the ground that hit opponents who try to outspace it. If they do manage to get around it it cancels soon enough for another move (up+b to the ledge for example) to come out in succession. Nair is a pretty different move that you should throw out when you're getting comboed or are trying to return to the stage from above. I personally like to use it immediately following a ledgejump <100 because it's basically a nair-launcher in an upwards direction. Ftilt is pretty much like any other ftilt. You can throw it at a shield following a dair or a well-spaced low fair, or just throw it out at a recovering opponent.

 

[GeZ]

I love Bowser's dair to the point of spamming, or at least borderline. It's like a drill that does a bunch of damage, breaks shields, and has two far side hitboxes on either side of the shell when Bowser hits the ground that hit opponents who try to outspace it. If they do manage to get around it it cancels soon enough for another move (up+b to the ledge for example) to come out in succession. Nair is a pretty different move that you should throw out when you're getting comboed or are trying to return to the stage from above. I personally like to use it immediately following a ledgejump <100 because it's basically a nair-launcher in an upwards direction. Ftilt is pretty much like any other ftilt. You can throw it at a shield following a dair or a well-spaced low fair, or just throw it out at a recovering opponent.

Kickass. Thanks. I'll get to practicing these ASAP. Though couldn't Dtilt be used better in all the situations Ftilt could be?

 

[MegaGuy]

Up-angled FTilt works as a psuedo-anti air in a pinch, considering Bowser's sluggish jumpsquat. It also packs more of a horizontal punch, and is generally better for edgeguarding. Don't let his amazing DTilt make his FTilt look inadequate, it's really good.

 

[GeZ]

Alright cool. Thanks.

 

[JOE!]

So....

Drop kick

 

[MegaGuy]

I prefer the Headbutt of 1000 Suns myself.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

The drop-kick will probably be more useful, but by the looks of it, it won't be usable in Gimpyfish combos.

 

[GeZ]

Yo, this is the Project M Bowser forum. If you want to talk about the horrible mess of a character they're making him in SSB4, do it in those forums.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

But we're talking about how lame SSB4 is going to be compared to Project M because of how it doesn't have the Bowser headbutt of ultimate destruction. That's on-topic, right?

 

[Airrider]

Why does Bowser get a different getup-attack when he reaches 100%?

 

[Ace55]

Why does Bowser get a different getup-attack when he reaches 100%?

Because everyone does?

 

[Airrider]

Because everyone does?

Oops. I really had no idea about that. Had never noticed it before.

 

[MegaGuy]

RIP Bowser boards.

For reals tho, I've started incorporating wavebounced and b-reversed Klaws into my game a lot, and it's so nasty. Someone sprinting after you? BOOM. Take this gigantic turtle skull/bye you're offstage now~

Anyone have personal scare tactics they like to use? That's my favorite part about being Bowser; the fear.

 

[Chaos_Blasta]

Short hop Down Bs or Dash >> CC Fsmash are interesting, and they can certainly get your opponent if they don't except it (Or damage their shield severely/break it outright)

 

[Gimpyfish62]

dislike @ cheap pure gimmick tricks myself

 

[MegaGuy]

I wouldn't rule out wavebouncing as a gimmick of Bowser's just yet. It has potential to open up his mobility a little bit more, but I've yet to discover just how much.

 

[E-102 Gamma]

Someone mind explaining to me what "wavebouncing" is?

 

[MegaGuy]

Basically, it's taking the momentum from a special and making it go the other way. With Bowser, run, side b in the direction you're running, and IMMEDIATELY flick the control stick the other way. You should see a complete change in momentum. AFAIK it can be done with any special move.

 

[Gimpyfish62]

wavebouncing isn't a gimmick that has a lot of situational uses, but short hop bowser bomb? i dunno lol

 

[MegaGuy]

Oh, yeah, then I agree. I was asking for scare tactics though, and wasn't really expecting a lot of them to be pillars of Bowser gameplay. I just wanted to know if anyone had unorthodox ways of scaring/conditioning their opponents.

 

[cmart]

I usually try to scare them by killing them

It works sometimes