Boost Hogging

[Mister Eric]

hey beepos.

First,
The Video

I've watched countless R.O.B. videos and have never seen this performed in-match. I'm not sure if it's because you don't find it useful or if you don't know about it. Overswarm said he's never seen it either. But, when I ran across this, I found it very useful. So I'm sharing.

Pretty much, it's just a technique to quickly regrab the edge as fast as robotically possible. Most of my tests with this were against marths and I found that I was gimping him with this more times than he was recovering (if performed correctly. the timing can be weird). Also, if you get hit, you usually don't eat a nasty stage spike. beepgasmic huh?

To perform:
Instead of letting go of the ledge with down > jump > up+b which lets you regrab the edge at an alright speed (but can leave you hella vulnerable), let go of the ledge horizontally. To follow along with the video, the input was the following: grab edge > left > up+b diagonally towards the stage. The only real difficulty about getting it down is the timing. If you do it too fast, you'll overshoot the ledge.


So...I'll leave this up for discussion!

thoughts?

 

[CT Chia]

not bad
<dugboug

 

[stingers]

pretty good, i think i'll start using this

 

[A2ZOMG]

Very funny how it's easy to miss the little things. Much appreciated pointer.

 

[TheMike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOI5lTzm9go

2:51 to 2:56
at 2:53 i did exactly what u want to show us ^^

Thx for sharing =]

 

[Mister Eric]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOI5lTzm9go

2:51 to 2:56
at 2:53 i did exactly what u want to show us ^^

Thx for sharing =]

What I'm seeing looks like the normal way of doing it. not "boost hogging"
it looks like you're letting go with down. not the horizontal release bc you're dropping too low.

 

[TheMike]

I think at 2:53 and did at that way, not sure, but i think so =X

I'll try to d this more often because it's seems useful =]

 

[Shockdrake]

I actually thought all ROBs knew this. I remember talking in xat chat about it last year with jcaesar and sudai.

=0

 

[Mister Eric]

I actually thought all ROBs knew this. I remember talking in xat chat about it last year with jcaesar and sudai.

=0

i figured people have ran by it before, but it just wasn't thrown into their game that much. but i've used it a beep ton within the last month to see its effectiveness, and me like me like =]

 

[Darth Waffles]

Shockdrake?! Where have you been?

 

[GwJ]

Shockdrake! Hi.

 

[Sudai]

SHOCKDRAKE!! :O

Anyway, like Shock said, yeah, this has been known for a while by some. The only reason I never shared it is because Standing by the edge and quick hugging is far more efficient. It's faster, safer, allows you to be more precise with your timing, and doesn't use any fuel. There's times where I use it, but that's usually only to bait people into thinking I'm coming low after them..but once again, I tend to just do that from the ledge too as you're only really losing a few frames if you do decide to chase them down, but you can still run off > Up-B back for the same exact effect otherwise.

 

[Commander_Beef]

I actually thought all ROBs knew this. I remember talking in xat chat about it last year with jcaesar and sudai.

=0

No don't even bother. I think Mister Eric deserves a thank you and not just saying that all R.O.B.s knew this. Especially when I totally agree about no R.O.B. doing this for a long time at the least.
Thank you Mister Eric and good job with this. This will help our game a lot with edgeguarding.

 

[Shockdrake]

Oh, contributions are good...lol. I didn't mean to make it sound like it wasn't a help with anything. =) It's something that's good to know.

What I don't like about it though, is that if you're using it to edgeguard Marth, this technique has a rhythm to it, and the ledge isn't occupied the whole time. Marth can wait for the moment you let go and DS to the ledge faster than you can Up-B back. The moment he gets invincibility, he can immediately ledgehop a completely safe nair and get back on-stage to edgeguard you as you bounce against the edge with your missed Up-B (or get hit by the nair). He can even try for a completely safe ledgehop dair spike since he's invincible and you're not. He can chase you with a ledge drop > bair, spaced to tip (his bair tip can hit you even if you fair, and if he misspaces, he gets hit towards the stage, while you get knocked away for a possible KO), or he can ledgehop > uair > land on stage > juggle trap.

Probably the only safe thing to do if he grabs it before you is to drop down and recover low with a rising nair/uair, or Up-B up and away from the stage for time.

You're at a complete disadvantage if Marth grabs the ledge while you're doing this.

The best argument against ^ would be that you could mindgame, hold on a bit longer, mix up let-go times. But almost any good Marth will have a 2nd jump + DB to stall until he sees you let go, so he can time a DS to the ledge. And even if he doesn't, mindgames aren't always supposed to work.

The other use is... planking, which it's definitely good for, though I'm not sure if planking is technically allowed in tournaments.

For gimping a Marth, skill can let Marth get past repeated ledgehogs. If you're standing on the edge and waiting to speedhug, he can only get back if he reads your hug. So if you're versus-ing a Marth you think doesn't know how to deal with this technique, it can be great. But if it's a Marth who knows what he can do, you're better off trying to mindgame it.

EDIT: Hiiiiiii.

 

[stingers]

naw, as long as you time it right you can beat a marth with this. it'd be tough though.

 

[Sudai]

naw, as long as you time it right you can beat a marth with this. it'd be tough though.

Speed hug > Boost hug for edge hogging anyone, basically. Only people I don't speed hog when I want to edge hog are tethers. Reasons I didn't share a year ago, though I probably should have shared it anyway. Haha.

 

[Mister Eric]

What I don't like about it though, is that if you're using it to edgeguard Marth, this technique has a rhythm to it, and the ledge isn't occupied the whole time. Marth can wait for the moment you let go and DS to the ledge faster than you can Up-B back. .

The marth I practiced this against was Xisin. Best Marth in Midwest and is arguably considered top 5 of marths. He's my teamie and I know him so well and the marth match-up for that fact that DS usually doesn't beep my world up when boost hogging due to the way they approach the ledge. I can read Marths very well since it's the primary character I train against. (this MU is so even it's ridiculous. helps me with my spacing, gimping, etc.) But I feel it's useful, if you don't wanna give it a go, that's fine. I understand your point. It's a very debatable maneuver but interesting, so I had to bring it forth. I'll post more on this later (tons of homework. pulling an all nighter). I have several uses for it, but I really enjoyed it's effect on marths.

No don't even bother. I think Mister Eric deserves a thank you and not just saying that all R.O.B.s knew this. Especially when I totally agree about no R.O.B. doing this for a long time at the least.
Thank you Mister Eric and good job with this. This will help our game a lot with edgeguarding.

Thanks =]

 

[Sudai]

Well then, I'm looking forward to it. You can expect me to prod you some time if you don't have it up soon. I won't let you forget because this is one of those techs I found a while back that I so desperately wanted to be useful but could never find a use that isn't better done through something else. :[

 

[Mr.E]

I too figured it was pretty obvious. Personally, I just don't find a lot of success trying to edgehog someone like Marth and prefer to simply try knocking them further away with another FAir or two. :/ Same result, different mindgame.

You can't really mix up the timing between successive "boost hugs" since your ledge invinciblity will run out if you don't immediately let go and regrab. Most recoveries will flat-out knock you off the ledge and regrab in that case but it's a quick way to restore your ledge invincibility if you speed hug early and they stall too long waiting you out.

 

[Commander_Beef]

Thanks =]

You are very welcome sire.

 

[Mister Eric]

Well then, I'm looking forward to it. You can expect me to prod you some time if you don't have it up soon. I won't let you forget because this is one of those techs I found a while back that I so desperately wanted to be useful but could never find a use that isn't better done through something else. :[

Of course it is limited. But any sort of switchup in a repetitive situation is good, beep?
I'll go through what characters I do think it's effective against in terms of gimping and how to go about it after I go to philosophy and get me a nap in. Pulled an all nighter xD

 

[sneakytako]

Does this work well against toon link's recovery? I have a hard time ledgehogging his up b D:

 

[TheMike]

It probably works with most of the characters because of the Auto-Sweet Spot at the ledge, but with some chars, it is easier, like ROB =]

 

[Sudai]

It'd work against TLink, speed hugging him is actually easier than boost hugging him and it's easier than doing it to Marth and a number of other characters. :x

Just practice speed hugging against Drill Rush and Shuttle Loop and then you should be able to speed hug anything. :o

 

[Shockdrake]

Funnest application is hogging both hitboxes of Ike's Aether.

 

[Sudai]

Funnest application is hogging both hitboxes of Ike's Aether.

This. Though now days I just time lasers and gyros at the top of his up-b because that's more fun for me for some reason. I used to be all about the double edge hog on Ike.

 

[Mr.E]

You don't even have to edgehog the second half of Aether since you can just do it Melee-style if you roll at just the right time.

Speedhugging Shuttle Loop is basically impossible if they're actually smart enough to simply reverse-SL and flip straight onto the stage.

 

[Sudai]

You don't even have to edgehog the second half of Aether since you can just do it Melee-style if you roll at just the right time.

Speedhugging Shuttle Loop is basically impossible if they're actually smart enough to simply reverse-SL and flip straight onto the stage.

Really? :o

Now I get to feel like I'm edge hogging in Melee against Tethers AND Ike. :o

 

[stingers]

Yeah, thats the way I do it

 

[Sudai]

Man. Can't believe I never tried that. Wait, yes I can. I only play against Ikes like..never. XD

Still though, that'll come in handy some day when I'm facing a good Ike for no reason.

 

[stingers]

You can do it against Kirby too.

 

[Sudai]

Yeah, I knew about Kirby. I found that one out on accident when playing with my little brother. He did it to me when I randomed Kirby. Haha

 

[Darth Waffles]

ICs now(?) have a similar thing with up-B called "Bungie Jumping"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-RHxha0VX4

Oh Ice climbers...

 

[Tin Man]

Ice climbers are definately S tier Material, at least 6th place (or better then D3)

 

[Mister Eric]

the main reason why I enjoy BH over speed hogging is because to a lot of characters you just look vulnerable so they feel comfortable grabbing the ledge if you're just hanging there looking like easy dmg. of course it isn't a guaranteed tactic, not much of that in brawl anyways haha. i'd just advise playing with it.

and lol ike & kirby is funny to gimp. regardless of which hug you use.

 

[Sudai]

I'll play around with it some more. I'm experimenting a -lot- since I've started playing again (ok, I've only played like 3 times and it's been 2 weeks, but shut up XD) so I might as well experiment with this some more.

I already have something I want to show you guys that has made my ROB a bit better, but that's not for this thread. Gonna hold off on posting about it till I have some more stuff from my experimentation though so I can make a solid, informative post.

 

[xepherthree]

I think I'm going to use this, epic nice little change of tactic

 

[Tin Man]

Does it really work that well vs Kirby, I'll have to try it against this Kirby main named Percon who goes to my university when I see him on Monday (if I can get Kirby in that position )

 

[Mr.E]

ICs now(?) have a similar thing with up-B called "Bungie Jumping"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-RHxha0VX4

Oh Ice climbers...

I made a comment about this elsewhere but I don't see what's so special about that at all. It does put the player-controlled Climber (it's not necessarily Popo!) slightly over the stage so it's a little safer but it's basically a standard tether edgehog.

 

[6Mizu]

i used to do it the old way where marth got past it with marth but im gonna start prac. this.

oh, BTW nic vid and post for this