Blazblue Mafia: Game Over! Ouroboros Breaks the Cycle

[JeXs]

No lynching will do nothing. All that will happen is that ryu will get killed and we'll be put in the same situation as now. You are heavily misconstruing my play. I did not go with the obvious votes and whenever I did, I was usually among the first on them. I was on kantrip > gorf Day 2 and supporting Marshy's push on rake Day 3 while being against nabe/bardull's lynch. My defense of werekill is only bad because you view it from a different perspective I do. I saw him as being opportunistic, you did not. The main reason I felt werekill was going to be the lynch over kantrip was the speed of the wagon picking up, not the number of votes each wagon had.

 

[Dooms]

No lynching will do nothing. All that will happen is that ryu will get killed and we'll be put in the same situation as now. You are heavily misconstruing my play. I did not go with the obvious votes and whenever I did, I was usually among the first on them. I was on kantrip > gorf Day 2 and supporting Marshy's push on rake Day 3 while being against nabe/bardull's lynch. My defense of werekill is only bad because you view it from a different perspective I do. I saw him as being opportunistic, you did not. The main reason I felt werekill was going to be the lynch over kantrip was the speed of the wagon picking up, not the number of votes each wagon had.

Okay, no.

I was referring to after Day 3 passed when I said that you went with the obvious lynches (Rake -> Glyph) because those were the only lynches aside from Nabe I was actually here for (and ever since I've been in the game those two + myself have been the only people you have been scum reading).

This is the thing with your Werekill vote:

You saw that his wagon picked up speed faster than the Kantrip wagon, so you assumed that would be the lynch going through. You voted him because of this, making Werekill's wagon the strongest in the game.

After Werekill gets to L-1, he posts asking you specifically why you were voting him after Marshy asked you to switch.

You said that you weren't opposed to the lynch and people were piling on him.

After you say that, you start debating with him about why what he did with Ryu was scummy. Saying things like this:

Ryu: Guys I'm confirmed town!
Scummy people: I don't believe you! I'm voting you!
Yes it's scummy.

Which shows you actually found him suspicious due to his vote on Ryu (which you have stated with reasoning of that it was opportunistic).

Regarding his claim, you said this:

I have no idea lol. Never seen a role like that so I'll just take it as null. It does seem very strong though...

Which don't help support the fact that you just jumped on Werekill because you weren't opposed to his lynch. Why even add the "It does seem very strong though..." after saying it was null?

This is the thing that made this interaction look bad towards you for me though:

He was a potentially cleared slot. How is that suspicious? His vote was basically a rvs and after that he immediately remembered that they were masons. Why the hell would he do that as scum?

This was in response to him saying that what Ryu did was a giant question mark until Chaco posted and you still sat on this reasoning.

My main problem with this push is that you subtly pushed him regarding his claim, and you claimed that you joined the wagon because you weren't opposed to it and because people were jumping on quickly, and then you push him for pretty much one of the only things he has done this game outside of RVS.

Look at how Werekill actually went through with his lynch though. This is what he posted:

I like Soup. He seems to be legitimately frustrated.

Also Ryu can't possibly be THIS stupid after so many games. Vote: Ryu until something better happens.

Jexs seems fairly similar to his play in my last game with him, and he's being reasonable.

Remember that this was part of a string of posts that started off with this:

Raz finally showed up and is being cool. Did Rake show up? I may have missed him.

Chaco seems to be reacting fairly well. Him and Ryu are definitely working together in at least some way.

Ryu claiming Mason seems dumber and dumber, but I'm not sure why a scum would do it in the first place.

The rest of the cast seems active and scum hunty, minus the few inactives still left. But that sentence is at a glance, I'm gonna reread real quick and go into specifics.

Can you honestly read this post and say "Yeah he was trying to get Ryu lynched" when he basically said "I can't see Ryu being scum. Chaco and Ryu are working together, but Ryu's play is REALLY dumb. Everyone else is either scum hunty or inactive, so until something better comes up, I'm voting Ryu because his play was just that dumb."

Like, it's not the fact that his vote wasn't bad. Looking back on it, it was really bad. It was after Chaco claimed, and the fact that he voted him after saying that he couldn't understand the scum perspective behind it makes me really confused.

However, saying that this vote on Ryu was opportunistic in the slightest is mind boggling. It's not a different perspective between me and you. It's literally a place holder vote on a slot that he just got done saying couldn't be scum. He literally shut down his avenue of pushing this slot before voting it.

What this shows me is that you didn't consider his actual mindset behind his play at all. You looked at the action (voting Ryu), saw that it was bad to vote the confirmed mason regardless, and used that as part of your reasoning of voting him without actually stating it was part of your reasoning at the current time.

 

[Dooms]

EBWOP: "Look at how Werekill actually went through with his lynch Ryu vote though. This is what he posted:"

 

[JeXs]

Okay, no.

I was referring to after Day 3 passed when I said that you went with the obvious lynches (Rake -> Glyph) because those were the only lynches aside from Nabe I was actually here for (and ever since I've been in the game those two + myself have been the only people you have been scum reading).

Obviously I went for Rake > Glyph. I didn't think nabe/bardull were indy and the rest was basically marshy/raz/kantrip/ryu and you.
Were you really expecting me to be scum reading any of those slots? That's ridiculous. I don't know why you even included this in your reasoning to get me lynched.

This is the thing with your Werekill vote:

You saw that his wagon picked up speed faster than the Kantrip wagon, so you assumed that would be the lynch going through. You voted him because of this, making Werekill's wagon the strongest in the game.

After Werekill gets to L-1, he posts asking you specifically why you were voting him after Marshy asked you to switch.

You said that you weren't opposed to the lynch and people were piling on him.

After you say that, you start debating with him about why what he did with Ryu was scummy. Saying things like this:



Which shows you actually found him suspicious due to his vote on Ryu (which you have stated with reasoning of that it was opportunistic).

Yes, I found him suspicious because of his vote on ryu which I thought was him being opportunistic scum, I thought that should be obvious enough.

Which don't help support the fact that you just jumped on Werekill because you weren't opposed to his lynch. Why even add the "It does seem very strong though..." after saying it was null?

I said that because those were my exact thoughts on his role, which was in a response to maven asking for my thoughts on it. I never pushed him for his claim. I only gave my thoughts on it.

Can you honestly read this post and say "Yeah he was trying to get Ryu lynched" when he basically said "I can't see Ryu being scum. Chaco and Ryu are working together, but Ryu's play is REALLY dumb. Everyone else is either scum hunty or inactive, so until something better comes up, I'm voting Ryu because his play was just that dumb."

Like, it's not the fact that his vote wasn't bad. Looking back on it, it was really bad. It was after Chaco claimed, and the fact that he voted him after saying that he couldn't understand the scum perspective behind it makes me really confused.

However, saying that this vote on Ryu was opportunistic in the slightest is mind boggling. It's not a different perspective between me and you. It's literally a place holder vote on a slot that he just got done saying couldn't be scum. He literally shut down his avenue of pushing this slot before voting it.

What this shows me is that you didn't consider his actual mindset behind his play at all. You looked at the action (voting Ryu), saw that it was bad to vote the confirmed mason regardless, and used that as part of your reasoning of voting him without actually stating it was part of your reasoning at the current time.

You are referring to the wrong vote in which I found him to be opportunistic. Obviously I knew that he knew ryu wasn't going to be lynched after chaco claimed. I found him opportunistic for his vote on ryu before chaco claimed. I have no idea why you thought I found that vote to be opportunistic.

 

[Dooms]

Obviously I went for Rake > Glyph. I didn't think nabe/bardull were indy and the rest was basically marshy/raz/kantrip/ryu and you.
Were you really expecting me to be scum reading any of those slots? That's ridiculous. I don't know why you even included this in your reasoning to get me lynched.

I literally said you went with the lynches that were already set, but who didn't?

It wasn't trying to get you lynched. It was me trying to say that there were multiple people wanting those slots lynched and that read them as scum.

I stated very clearly that the only thing I've thought was legitimately scummy about your play was your werekill interaction. Like, multiple times.

Yes, I found him suspicious because of his vote on ryu which I thought was him being opportunistic scum, I thought that should be obvious enough.

So you felt that it was obvious that you thought he was being suspicious and opportunistic scum due to the ryu shenanigans after saying "I'm not opposed to your lynch and your lynch is picking up speed compared to Kantrip's"?

I don't buy that.

I said that because those were my exact thoughts on his role, which was in a response to maven asking for my thoughts on it. I never pushed him for his claim. I only gave my thoughts on it.

It's not that you hardcore pushed him for his claim. Adding things like "It does seem very strong though..." after you called it null shows that you're trying to be neutral towards his claim but still saying that it looks suspicious.

You are referring to the wrong vote in which I found him to be opportunistic. Obviously I knew that he knew ryu wasn't going to be lynched after chaco claimed. I found him opportunistic for his vote on ryu before chaco claimed. I have no idea why you thought I found that vote to be opportunistic.

Because the Ryu vote I'm referring to is his first (and only if I recall correctly) post-Ryu's claim vote he had.

Werekill had his vote on the Chaco wagon pre-Ryu's claim. He didn't vote Ryu on page 3, unvoted Chaco on page 4, didn't vote from there to page 7. Chaco confirmed the top of page 7. Werekill voted Ryu on page 8.

Unless I'm missing a vote somewhere, he voted Ryu only after Chaco claimed.

 

[JeXs]

I literally said you went with the lynches that were already set, but who didn't?

It wasn't trying to get you lynched. It was me trying to say that there were multiple people wanting those slots lynched and that read them as scum.

I stated very clearly that the only thing I've thought was legitimately scummy about your play was your werekill interaction. Like, multiple times.

Then why did you point that out? It literally does nothing except say that my reads have no originality to them.

So you felt that it was obvious that you thought he was being suspicious and opportunistic scum due to the ryu shenanigans after saying "I'm not opposed to your lynch and your lynch is picking up speed compared to Kantrip's"?

I don't buy that.

I didn't say anything about him being obvious scum. I simply thought he was another valid target (I had a scum lean on him) and was picking up speed faster than kantrip's wagon.

It's not that you hardcore pushed him for his claim. Adding things like "It does seem very strong though..." after you called it null shows that you're trying to be neutral towards his claim but still saying that it looks suspicious.

Those were literally just my thoughts on his claim. It was null to me because I've never seen it before and it's strong because well... it is strong. Calling a role strong is now calling it scummy?

Because the Ryu vote I'm referring to is his first (and only if I recall correctly) post-Ryu's claim vote he had.

Werekill had his vote on the Chaco wagon pre-Ryu's claim. He didn't vote Ryu on page 3, unvoted Chaco on page 4, didn't vote from there to page 7. Chaco confirmed the top of page 7. Werekill voted Ryu on page 8.

Unless I'm missing a vote somewhere, he voted Ryu only after Chaco claimed.

I just checked back. Bad memory on my part. Apologies. I thought he voted ryu. Regardless, it was him casting suspicion on ryu after ryu's claim that made me think he was opportunistic.

 

[Dooms]

Then why did you point that out? It literally does nothing except say that my reads have no originality to them.

What? I said I liked your Kantrip push day 1.

It's me defending myself. You read Glyph/Rake as scum. Kantrip is using that (+nabe) as reasoning against me. My point in posting that was saying that multiple people had those people read as scum because their play was that scummy.

I didn't say anything about him being obvious scum. I simply thought he was another valid target (I had a scum lean on him) and was picking up speed faster than kantrip's wagon.

I never said you thought he was obvious scum. You said it was obvious that you had him as suspicious and as opportunistic scum in your reads, and I'm saying that's a load of crap.

Those were literally just my thoughts on his claim. It was null to me because I've never seen it before and it's strong because well... it is strong. Calling a role strong is now calling it scummy?

So you're saying that if a person looked at you saying "It does seem very strong though..." regarding that claim that they wouldn't get an idea that you thought the role was suspicious after considering the previous page you were debating with him about his ryu action with no sway in your words what-so-ever?

I still don't buy this.

I just checked back. Bad memory on my part. Apologies. I thought he voted ryu. Regardless, it was him casting suspicion on ryu after ryu's claim that made me think he was opportunistic.

You're fine dude lmao.

He said that what Ryu was doing was scummy because it was that idiotic, yes, but look at how quickly he backed off. It took like two people saying that it was dumb and not scum (specifically yourself on the second one) and he was off of it. If it was opportunistic, he'd have to have an end goal in mind. The fact that he backed off so quickly and said his vote was pretty much on Raz/Rake shows that he didn't have an end goal.

Also, look at Werekill's thoughts on Ryu. All he said was "because it was really dumb." aside from one post which is this:

But I can get behind an inactive lynch toDay. This is a little bit ridiculous. Raz or Rake because Ryu could either be lying as scum to get points if Chaco dies, or he could be actually be telling the truth. Tbh I could get behind a Ryu lynch along those lines as well.

Even if you think that "Tbh I could get behind a Ryu lynch along those lines as well." is opportunistic for whatever reason, the fact of the matter is that he would have to do something with it.

You want to know what he did with that?

... Ok, I'll admit this makes sense. It still seems hella dumb to me though.

After you explained how it was impossible for him to get away with the claim as scum.

Do you honestly believe that anything he said regarding Werekill was opportunistic? Do you really think he thought he could pull a Ryu lynch off with the mentality of "his play is really dumb?" on a slot that only needed one person to say something in order to completely ruin that avenue?

There are a lot of reasons I could understand scum reading Werekill based on his play in hindsight. Opportunistic is not one of them.

 

[JeXs]

I never said you thought he was obvious scum. You said it was obvious that you had him as suspicious and as opportunistic scum in your reads, and I'm saying that's a load of crap.

K.

So you're saying that if a person looked at you saying "It does seem very strong though..." regarding that claim that they wouldn't get an idea that you thought the role was suspicious after considering the previous page you were debating with him about his ryu action with no sway in your words what-so-ever?

I still don't buy this.

This is nonsense. Calling a role strong does not mean being suspicious of it. I was suspicious of his play, not his role. A cop is a strong role, would me calling it strong mean that I'm suspicious of the one who claimed the role? No.

You're fine dude lmao.

He said that what Ryu was doing was scummy because it was that idiotic, yes, but look at how quickly he backed off. It took like two people saying that it was dumb and not scum (specifically yourself on the second one) and he was off of it. If it was opportunistic, he'd have to have an end goal in mind. The fact that he backed off so quickly and said his vote was pretty much on Raz/Rake shows that he didn't have an end goal.

Also, look at Werekill's thoughts on Ryu. All he said was "because it was really dumb." aside from one post which is this:



Even if you think that "Tbh I could get behind a Ryu lynch along those lines as well." is opportunistic for whatever reason, the fact of the matter is that he would have to do something with it.

You want to know what he did with that?


After you explained how it was impossible for him to get away with the claim as scum.

Do you honestly believe that anything he said regarding Werekill was opportunistic? Do you really think he thought he could pull a Ryu lynch off with the mentality of "his play is really dumb?" on a slot that only needed one person to say something in order to completely ruin that avenue?

There are a lot of reasons I could understand scum reading Werekill based on his play in hindsight. Opportunistic is not one of them.

You want to know why scum Werekill would back off? Here, let me tell you! People were starting to be suspicious of him because of him casting suspicion of ryu. Yes, I do believe he thought he could pull off a ryu lynch with the reasoning of extremely dumb play to the point of being unbelievable. You not seeing him as opportunistic is of no care to me, I did and that's all there is to why I voted Werekill. Also, you are acting as if I had this strong scum read on Werekill, which I clearly didn't. He was my secondary lynch choice after kantrip. To put it in simple words, I was scum reading kantrip and had a scum lean on Werekill, which is also why he was a valid lynch target.

 

[Dooms]

This is nonsense. Calling a role strong does not mean being suspicious of it. I was suspicious of his play, not his role. A cop is a strong role, would me calling it strong mean that I'm suspicious of the one who claimed the role? No.

Cop would be 100% a different scenario. Do you really think there is a comparison to be made here?

You want to know why scum Werekill would back off? Here, let me tell you! People were starting to be suspicious of him because of him casting suspicion of ryu. Yes, I do believe he thought he could pull off a ryu lynch with the reasoning of extremely dumb play to the point of being unbelievable. You not seeing him as opportunistic is of no care to me, I did and that's all there is to why I voted Werekill. Also, you are acting as if I had this strong scum read on Werekill, which I clearly didn't. He was my secondary lynch choice after kantrip. To put it in simple words, I was scum reading kantrip and had a scum lean on Werekill, which is also why he was a valid lynch target.

But then Werekill as scum regardless of what he got suspicion-wise early puts his vote on Ryu as a placeholder?

If all he did regarding Ryu was try to cast suspicion on him, I'd understand, but the reality is that his play regarding Ryu after that on top of how quickly and easily he went from "Ryu could be lying because x, but he could also be telling the truth" to "you're right but it's still really dumb".

"Yes, I do believe he thought he could pull off a ryu lynch with the reasoning of extremely dumb play to the point of being unbelievable." is bull****, especially without a vote on Ryu, and even without it there was no way he would be able to pull off a lynch.

Also, the fact that Marshy explained the lack of scum intent the second after Werekill said Ryu could be lying closes any avenues of doing anything with that suspicion he had.

If this was simply a difference in opinion, then yes, I'd be done with this, but it's not. There are too many things that make it obvious that none of Werekill's play was opportunistic, and you sitting on that reasoning shows that you didn't consider any of his play at all aside from those few posts that all had the same message of "his play was dumb", which is scummy to push someone with.

 

[JeXs]

Cop would be 100% a different scenario. Do you really think there is a comparison to be made here?

Yes, you are saying that I was being suspicious of him for his role which I called strong which is clearly not the case. A strong role does not equate to a scummy role.

But then Werekill as scum regardless of what he got suspicion-wise early puts his vote on Ryu as a placeholder?

If all he did regarding Ryu was try to cast suspicion on him, I'd understand, but the reality is that his play regarding Ryu after that on top of how quickly and easily he went from "Ryu could be lying because x, but he could also be telling the truth" to "you're right but it's still really dumb".

"Yes, I do believe he thought he could pull off a ryu lynch with the reasoning of extremely dumb play to the point of being unbelievable." is bull****, especially without a vote on Ryu, and even without it there was no way he would be able to pull off a lynch.

Also, the fact that Marshy explained the lack of scum intent the second after Werekill said Ryu could be lying closes any avenues of doing anything with that suspicion he had.

If this was simply a difference in opinion, then yes, I'd be done with this, but it's not. There are too many things that make it obvious that none of Werekill's play was opportunistic, and you sitting on that reasoning shows that you didn't consider any of his play at all aside from those few posts that all had the same message of "his play was dumb", which is scummy to push someone with.

Why not?

Sure he might not been able to have pulled off a ryu lynch in reality, but he could have thought he could.

You think he wasn't being opportunistic, I think otherwise. That's all to it. K.

 

[Dooms]

Yes, you are saying that I was being suspicious of him for his role which I called strong which is clearly not the case. A strong role does not equate to a scummy role.

Context says otherwise. You debate with him without budging why the only thing he has really done this game is scummy, then you say his claim is null, but end it with "Though it is very strong..." and expect that not to mean anything at all?

I'm not buying this in the slightest.

Why not?

Sure he might not been able to have pulled off a ryu lynch in reality, but he could have thought he could.

You think he wasn't being opportunistic, I think otherwise. That's all to it. K.

Because he did literally nothing with it?

He would have voted him outside of a placeholder vote if he thought he could have pulled it off.

No, but K.

 

[JeXs]

A strong role = a scummy role all of a sudden now? Where is this coming from? I literally said that it being strong were just my thoughts in a response to maven multiple times.

I was talking in context of before him voting ryu since I thought he voted ryu previously.

 

[Dooms]

A strong role = a scummy role all of a sudden now? Where is this coming from? I literally said that it being strong were just my thoughts in a response to maven multiple times.

I know you said that, but that doesn't change the fact that if you didn't want anything to come out of it, then you would have left it at null instead of saying "but it is really strong".

I was talking in context of before him voting ryu since I thought he voted ryu previously.

Then why are you still saying his play was opportunistic regardless? Because it definitely wasn't considering the lack of vote.

 

[JeXs]

I gave my thoughts because I was asked for it. There's nothing more to it.

I was saying it was opportunistic because I saw it as him trying to off a confirmed townie.

 

[Dooms]

Lol this is going in circles.

Just gonna wait on Ryu and Kantrip at this point.

 

[JeXs]

What if we spam till another new page

 

[Dooms]

Is that a challenge?

 

[JeXs]

Maybe. I don't know.

 

[JeXs]

This game doesn't have enough pages imo. Only 31 on Day 6? Pfft.

 

[Dooms]

Maybe. I don't know.

Good enough.

31 pages 6 days in is hilarious. However, considering how Days 4-5 turned out, it's not surprising in the slightest lmao.

 

[JeXs]

Average of 5 pages per Day is pathetic.

 

[JeXs]

I wonder how kantrip and ryu will feel reading through our exchange. Looking back at it it' quite long. Mostly your posts though.

 

[Dooms]

I type a lot all the time haha. It's very long because of me haha.

 

[Dooms]

They'll be pissed though without a doubt.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm not getting a strong feel for either side from that echange, one side is offensive while the other is defending.

JexS who is scum right now?

@ Kantrip thoughts on this?

 

[Kantrip]

Haven't read yet.

Gonna be really busy this weekend but will be settled next week.

 

[JeXs]

I'm not getting a strong feel for either side from that echange, one side is offensive while the other is defending.

JexS who is scum right now?

@ Kantrip thoughts on this?

Why do you ask? Should be obvious enough. Joey.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I asked because I wasn't sure based on how you were posting.

Need to reread what others did but this isn't clear cut right now.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The other question is also what am I looking for? Mafia, traitor or indy.

 

[JeXs]

I don't know but I'm pretty sure it's traitor Joey.

 

[Takamagahara]

Extended Deadline to Thursday 12/4/14 Midnight CST because Thanksgiving.
There will be no additional time extension.
​

[collapse=Text Version]
1. Red Ryu
2. Jexs [1]: Joey
3 Joey [1]: Jexs
4. Potassium

Not Voting: Red Ryu, Potassium

[/collapse]

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

@ Kantrip I want your thoughts and reads on the two.

 

[Kantrip]

Just got settled into my new place, exhausted and will probably go to bed soon.

I said I'd do it Monday. Tomorrow is Monday.

 

[Kantrip]

I still want to No Lynch even though it's almost surely between joey and jexs and one of me and ruy will die

 

[Kantrip]

damn that jexs vs joey is hard to read through

**** this game not being over

 

[JeXs]

No lynching is bad for town. Right now, you and ryu can at least discuss your reads.

 

[Dooms]

No lynch wouldn't be awful if Ryu and Kantrip have their thoughts out there for one another, although I would find it pointless considering it's going to come down to either myself or JeXs regardless.

 

[Kantrip]

ugh my thoughts are jexs for indy, joey for traitor

i hate both of their roles. jexs began play with absolutely no powers except that he needed to find ragna? and then once he couldnt he became a miller? thats crappy in an all PR game

Joey is an executioner? cool. except he can only execute D1 and it has to be in the last 2 Days before deadline? useless.

both of these roles ended up amounting to nothing. ending d1 early and showing guilty to cops means they are actually both net negatives for town.

 

[Kantrip]

jexs thought someone had targeted him and converted him to miller when he was changed over
he also was confirmed to have tried to target bardull n1 iirc

we have a global roleblock that scum was not responsible for that occurred on n3. raziek and glyph both claimed that their results failed.

considering soup said his execute was only usable D1, I could see a scenario where he actually had some other abilities that were usable other Nights. Perhaps the roleblock was one such ability.

@ #HBC | Red Ryu - What are you thinking?

 

[Kantrip]

id be curious to see if another NK happens if we No Lynch and i have trust issues with lynching in MyLo since F&L (even though we did NL it is a prime example of why you should)

i realize that it will be one of me or ruy dying though so honestly it probably wont gain us anything