There is so much wrong with this that it's laughable.
First off, many tribes of natives have never even heard of the soul nor ghosts, much less gods. Yet, when outsiders enter, they aren't in a some perpetual state of Moral Anarchy but working quite well together.
I never said they would be. I said that there would be no morals if God didn't exist, not that if we didn't think He existed. I actually believe they have morals because as is said in Genesis 2, that we are created in God's image. Or as Paul writes in the beginning of Romans, that the Gentiles, who did not have the law, show that when they by nature do things required by the law, that they have the requirements of the law written on their hearts. He goes on to say they're judged by their consciences. This is only proof of that. Also, you should probably point out what tribes and where, and link me to several articles about both their religious beliefs and also the moral state of their society. You're making unsupported claims about very specific things. But even if it were true, it still doesn't harm my argument in the slightest, you only misinterpreted.
Morals, to me, are something that keeps things in a balance that benefits me. If I ****, steal, or kill, then that gives someone else the moral right to reciprocate, which harms my quality of life.
I can understand this point of view. However, this means that if I stop caring about the quality of my life, then I can do whatever I want. Therefore, in your own words, there is nothing intrinsically wrong with ****, stealing, or murder. There is only something that doesn't benefit your own quality of life.
In this instance, SELFISHNESS dedicates my moral code. I don't do what I wouldn't done to me. This is not something I learned from study or anything, but something that makes sense to me, internally. Religion will not support this belief at all.
"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets" (Matthew 7:12 NIV). Religion doesn't support what, exactly? Jesus doesn't only support this view, He says it's the summation of the entire Old Testament.
If someone decides to step on my rights, I will reciprocate because of said moral code.
In case this is what you meant in saying that religion doesn't support this point of view, think again. "If anyone injures his neighbor, whatever he has done must be done to him: fracture for fracture, eye for eye, tooth for tooth. As he has injured the other, so he is to be injured" (Leviticus 24:19, 20 NIV). This is actually the exact thing Jesus reforms in Matthew 5:38, saying that He came not to abolish the Law, but rather to fulfill it. I believe the reason God gave them this command at the beginning was to work as a judicial and legal system among them, and not as a moral code. Jesus later made this clear in The Sermon on the Mount.
Next, I respect a person's right, as in naturally given right, to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. These are inalienable rights that all people deserve.
This is a philosophy and a point of view. Not a fact. If there is nothing of the divine in a human, we have just as much right to deprive him of life as we would an animal--nevermind liberty or pursuit of happiness. We have no problem enslaving animals to do our will--even to entertain us as pets. If we did this with humans, you'd be outraged. Well tell me this: What makes humans better than animals? Is it not that we are made in God's image? If not, tell me then, what makes it intrinsically right to treat a person with these rights and not animals? You provide no proof and make large, sweeping claims. I believe people have rights because we were made in God's image. You, however, have no proof. Look at your own source, the Declaration of Independence. It reads "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are
created equal, that they are endowed
by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Did you catch that? It says that we are endowed with these rights by our Creator. If He didn't give us these rights, who did? And what makes them restricted to humans and not animals?
Considering these, morality just comes second hand. No god gave these rights, but man himself defined and discovered.
Again, not according to the Declaration, the source you quoted.
Saying god is the only creator of morality is just a technique to cast non-believers in god, particularly a Christian god, as hedonistic heathens who are incapable of understand what god is and discredits any rational assault on your god.
This is absolutely untrue. I believe that all people are created with a piece of the Divine in them. That's why we have those rights. I see every human being as possessing the potential of making peace with God and being saved. Believe it or not,
that's why I'm arguing with you. Yes, that's right, CK, I hope my words will not only convince you--but everyone who reads them. I don't have my 'religion' so I can feel better about myself. I'm more critical of myself than of any other human being. I argue so strongly for God because I know full well what He's for my life--not to mention my soul. That's the reason I've given up everything. Not because I'm some great and awesome guy--No! It's because God is so great. I've turned from everything I thought was good and precious in this life and I consider them garbage that I might gain Christ.
It's true, most people do hold their religions to either help them sleep better at night or so they can feel like they're a better person than others. But I push myself harder for God than my body can physically or mentally take. I deprive myself of pleasure, sleep, and food on a regular basis that I might honor God with my life better. You think I do this so that I can feel like I'm a better person than other people? No! I do it so that people might see what I do in my life and see God's power in it all. Everything I do is for the glory of God, or for the benefit of people. Talk to anyone who knows me, my "religion" is far from exclusive. Often the problem people have with me is not that I shove them away and think they're not good enough to accept God--but rather that they can't get me to stop talking to them about God and trying to get them to come to church! Why would I do this? Only because I've come from some pretty dark places in my life and found God through it all.
I was deeply depressed and suicidal before I found God. I escaped by dating lots of women, to make myself feel loved--and sometimes one woman at a time wasn't enough. My other friend, Eduardo, who was converted nine months ago used to be a violent man. He used to gain people's respect through fear. Now he's one of the most caring individuals I know. My roommate from last year, Chad, decided to try to find God after his dad committed suicide when Chad was just 15. When he came to Emerson, he was converted in just a few months. Right now his mother can't work, and he needs to support both her and his two younger sisters--all in the middle of this he's getting hardly any help from the government, no settlement after his mother was hit by a car, and is in the process of being evicted--and yet he still wants to get connected with the church out in California since he moved back there. You want more? I can give you more. Almost all of our ministers used to be complete and total womanizers and who got drunk almost as often as they could. The minister of the church I'm at now left his church when he was 16 because of the serious corruption he saw going on in it. Later on his brother converted him after finding out what the Bible was really all about--Needless to say, we don't think we're better than anyone. We're some of the worst of people. The thing is we've just realized it and God's used our lives as a testimony to His power by changing them radically. So don't you even for a second think that my grace means nothing. It is literally the only reason I didn't kill myself almost four years ago.
My beliefs aren't bizarre; they're true and reasonable.
