Bingo Mafia: OVAH! Who won?

[Asdioh]

for the record, X1 was right about PL and I being town. If it wasn't obvious from the Glyph vs Seik stuff, Glyph also said

On the night of a bingo, I'm given the following options to chose from:

I was expecting to be killed because that would result in double bingos, but that wouldn't really help the scum any further last Night. It was more beneficial to kill X1.

 

[Seikend]

Why you constantly assert that you're town Asdioh .__.


If Glyph is genuinely an indie and Asdioh is scum Isomad.

 

[Seikend]

Need to take a break, and library will be closing in an hour.

I'll sum up the rest of the game though.


Cruising.

Glyph hasn't pushed any scumpicks except J. After J flipped, he just took everyone as town and hardly pushed any picks. He hasn't been looking for scum since. Until miraclously at lylo, he found scum at night.


Seriously. Remind me what scumpicks besides J he's pushed.

 

[Asdioh]

Now, I really am told that scum has the ability to take away my bulletproof ability upon a bingo, but I'm pretty sure that hasn't happened since X1's results have shown him investigating himself twice now. Assuming Seik's powers follow a similar pattern as mine, he has a list of scum powers he can access during the night on nights of a bingo. I'd wager that tonights was some form of redirection, used on X1.

This is convincing. I just hope it wasn't Glyph that was doing the redirecting. Also the fact that all his abilities have freaking names is pretty convincing that he actually has those abilities.

My wincon. I'm a survivor, all I need to do is make it to the end of the game and I win alongside anyone else there. Since the game hasn't ended yet, its pretty clear that someone is scum.

It's possible.

I chose the Role Sense power, which I used on Seikend. I was given no result, saying that my hands were shaking as I attempted to retrieve it.

Why the hell didn't you use "Reporter (dubbed, Camo)
-I am told if a player if doing anything in the night" ?


Seik, I was more clearing PL than myself.


I just read all of Seik's posts. I await PL and Glyph posting stuff before I post my thoughts.

Seik, why did Glyph claim bulletproof and there were two nights with No Kills?

 

[Seikend]

._____.;

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12700151&postcount=3336


Explained why Glyph claimed BP. Gives an excuse for someone who was "obv-town" to most to not get Night Killed.

Asdioh, why, if I was scum, would there be two No Kills? I could have hit BP Glyph, yes. Doesn't explain the second No Kill.

We don't know what the hell happened with Night Actions. Unless you can explain what happened please do some good ol' fashion scumhunting please, from what we do know.

 

[Asdioh]

Asdioh, why, if I was scum, would there be two No Kills? I could have hit BP Glyph, yes. Doesn't explain the second No Kill.

It makes even less sense coming from Glyph being scum.

 

[Seikend]

Why?

First No Kill lets him claim Bullet Proof.

Second No Kill ???


Makes just as much sense.

 

[Asdioh]

Second No Kill ???

This is the part that makes no sense though. Nobody else claimed BP or doctor. The remaining scum obviously has NKs though.

The second no kill can also be explained by scum thinking Glyph's BP was 1-shot, which is common.

 

[Seikend]

._____. Except why the hell would they do that?

They could NK anyone else (Hint: THE PRS), then once they have a bingo, Nk Glyph.

If you're seriously considering me scummy just because of the night actions, I give up with this game.

 

[Asdioh]

I'm not.

Then can you explain that second no kill night? Nobody else has been revealed to be bulletproof. Aside from targeting Glyph twice, what can explain it?

 

[Seikend]

._____________________________________.;

That's the whole damn point.

WE CAN'T EXPLAIN THE NIGHT ACTIONS SO I'M IGNORING THEM. I DO NOT USE NIGHT ACTIONS AS MY CASE ON GLYPH. I'M USING THE INFORMATION THAT TOWN HAS.

(P.S. ITS THE DAYTIME TALK)

 

[Asdioh]

ok.

to be honest, your case against Glyph hasn't convinced me that he's scum. I think he was legitimately convinced J was scum based on J's actions. :x

 

[Seikend]

And what about the rest of his play?

What other scumpicks has he pushed?

 

[Asdioh]

I'll look into it if I have to, but for now I'll let Glyph and PL point those out to me.

glyph do stuff

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Currently at page 22.

Feeling Glyph is town.

Pretty Null on Asdioh. J does produce a case on him, but he hasn't pushed it much, yet. His play has been eh.

Don't like PL's lack of interaction with J at all, besides commenting on how the hydra should post. During Glyph/J they just addressed Glyph and in Asdioh/J they just address Asdioh.

Key point, D1 re-read puts Glyph as town.

Glyph/J Exchange

+ Points for Glyph - Didn't leap to J scum immediately like I thought just based on the RVS post. Slowly worked up to J scum based on J's posts

- Points for PL - http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12450916&postcount=261 Suggesting we lynch Glyph because he hasn't re-explained himself, minimal interaction with J, everything directed at Glyph. Don't think they took a stance on J

? For Asdioh - http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12452675&postcount=392 Bunch of well explained neutral stances, unexplained scum stances. Does have J scum though.


Just post this for now.

If the only case against Glyph is based on early D1 then I'm cool with Glyph town.

Again, D1 read on Glyph is town.

@Glyph I remember you explaining why it was scummy for J.

How did you reach the conclusion the KevinM was town though, if you had never played with him?

@X1 Yeah, I think that's a possibility. It would be unlucky and unlikely, but definitely possible. 1/5 or something?

Do indies ever have RB powers?

Admission that the calling J out on being scum was already discussed and dismissed.

Yeah, I see why I had PL as super town in D4. A lot better than every other day imo.

Glyph's lack of anything in D5 is kinda bleh. I appreciate not feeling anyone is scum but I dont know. Doesn't seem to be doing any work to find scum.

Ignoring set up, Out of Asdioh, PL, RR and Glyph. I'd have Asdioh>Glyph>PL>RR in the townie scale.

Asdioh has generally been pretty good. Stupid gut.
Glyph's early play was good. Not doing anything toDay is bleh, but ah well.
PL is the opposite of Glyph. Scummy early on, looks good now.
RR is Null for me.

@RR Is PL the only scumpick you have? Who else is possibly scum, and why?
@Aposl Said it before, but repeating it so it's clearer. Scumpicks?

Glyph. Early play (ie, D1). Town. Also heavily implied that Glyph did nothing of notice during D2, 3, and 4.

There's a theme here Seik, you've called me town after not one read through, but TWO. On multiple occasions, even! But once the lynch is down to me and you, then suddenly you find pages of reasons I'm scummy? There is literally no way you could have read all of those posts, thought they were perfectly fine the first times through, and THEN went back on the THIRD time and realized "oh wait, this is scum!!!"

Your case is all based on things that have been discussed into the ground as well. My play on D1 was designed to draw a NK. Make a exceptionally distinct connection to ONE player, and go after it hard. I have already said this in the thread, more than happy to pull it up for you.

As for the PR stuff, I call BS. First off, deceivers almost definitely refers to scum, and even if it DOES apply to indies as well, then having pro-town powers is definitely a bonus.

Oh, and I've got a few points about your case I'd like to address.

Let's clear up a couple of things before we start.

Don't consider Glyph clear, that would be dumb.

For starters, a J bus is entirely within reason. J did not want to play.

Literally no way to conclude this from that post unless you heard it directly from J. I'd wager, in a QT.

If this isn't enough, consider the fact that J faked a posting restriction (which essentially stopped him playing for the day) AND replaced out.

Godfather bussing his scummate on D1 is not unheard of.

I hope you're not implying J did not try to play this game hard, because you'd be a bold-faced liar. In no way did he roll over and give up, or even remotely seem to not care. He worked his *** off to not get lynched.

Oh, and since when would I be the godfather? What evidence is there of that being the remaining scum? I could see you pushing that if I had an innocent on me, but I'm literally investigated.

 

[Asdioh]

I hope you're not implying J did not try to play this game hard, because you'd be a bold-faced liar. In no way did he roll over and give up, or even remotely seem to not care. He worked his *** off to not get lynched.

This is true, especially with how desperately TDW tried to keep him alive D1.

Oh, and since when would I be the godfather? What evidence is there of that being the remaining scum? I could see you pushing that if I had an innocent on me, but I'm literally investigated.

Kind of confused about this last line.


Anyway, good catch. Seik keeps pointing out that Glyph looks townie, until it comes down to lylo between the two of them, then he realizes he needs to paint Glyph as scummy, after trying to NK him twice and failing? Just speculation.

I guess I will do a little rereading, but honestly it's been looking like Seik is the remaining scum, and I'm pretty sure that's what X1 thought as well, so I'll channel the spirit of our wise dead cop and yeah rereading a bit

PL WHERE ARE YOU D:

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Oh, literally have not been investigated. Sorry.

 

[Seikend]

Key point, D1 re-read puts Glyph as town.



Again, D1 read on Glyph is town.



Admission that the calling J out on being scum was already discussed and dismissed.



Glyph. Early play (ie, D1). Town. Also heavily implied that Glyph did nothing of notice during D2, 3, and 4.

There's a theme here Seik, you've called me town after not one read through, but TWO. On multiple occasions, even! But once the lynch is down to me and you, then suddenly you find pages of reasons I'm scummy? There is literally no way you could have read all of those posts, thought they were perfectly fine the first times through, and THEN went back on the THIRD time and realized "oh wait, this is scum!!!"

That re-read was reading 3 players. Also note that now, the scumspects are narrowed down.

PL is confirmed town to me from that hydra QT post.

It was between you and Asdioh. Asdioh, as I said, had nothing majorly scummy pointed at him. That leaves you. So I re-read with you in mind.

Your case is all based on things that have been discussed into the ground as well. My play on D1 was designed to draw a NK. Make a exceptionally distinct connection to ONE player, and go after it hard. I have already said this in the thread, more than happy to pull it up for you.

You have said that. Explain why, If J wasn't scum, how you'd draw the NK please? You had no connections to anyone else.

As for the PR stuff, I call BS. First off, deceivers almost definitely refers to scum, and even if it DOES apply to indies as well, then having pro-town powers is definitely a bonus.

'kay

Oh, and I've got a few points about your case I'd like to address.



Literally no way to conclude this from that post unless you heard it directly from J. I'd wager, in a QT.

I hope you're not implying J did not try to play this game hard, because you'd be a bold-faced liar. In no way did he roll over and give up, or even remotely seem to not care. He worked his *** off to not get lynched.

Complete strawman. I never said he didn't try to play. Even if you don't like your role, you don't just give up. That's a **** move to your faction and no one should do that. He did work, and I would not claim he did nothing. But that quote heavy implies he didn't want to be scum.

Oh, and since when would I be the godfather? What evidence is there of that being the remaining scum? I could see you pushing that if I had an innocent on me, but I'm literally investigated.

Thought that we had clears on everyone, forgot that ??? wasn't GLG.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

That re-read was reading 3 players. Also note that now, the scumspects are narrowed down.

PL is confirmed town to me from that hydra QT post.

It was between you and Asdioh. Asdioh, as I said, had nothing majorly scummy pointed at him. That leaves you. So I re-read with you in mind.

Funny how that works out.

You have said that. Explain why, If J wasn't scum, how you'd draw the NK please? You had no connections to anyone else.
'kay

Uhhhhhhhh
You had no connections to anyone else.

That is what scum live and breath on for NK's stuff that CAN'T BE TRACED BACK TO THEM.

Complete strawman. I never said he didn't try to play. Even if you don't like your role, you don't just give up. That's a **** move to your faction and no one should do that. He did work, and I would not claim he did nothing. But that quote heavy implies he didn't want to be scum.

If J didn't want to play, he would not have played. Its that simple. There is absolutely no reason to conclude that post was even true, since the purpose of it was clearly give town the impression he was town (something we've been over and over and over)

Thought that we had clears on everyone, forgot that ??? wasn't GLG.

Quite the oversight there. In fact I'm pretty sure that none of the current players are cleared as town based off investigations.

 

[Seikend]

Anyway, good catch. Seik keeps pointing out that Glyph looks townie, until it comes down to lylo between the two of them, then he realizes he needs to paint Glyph as scummy, after trying to NK him twice and failing? Just speculation.

I guess I will do a little rereading, but honestly it's been looking like Seik is the remaining scum, and I'm pretty sure that's what X1 thought as well, so I'll channel the spirit of our wise dead cop and yeah rereading a bit

PL WHERE ARE YOU D:

.____.

It's called re-evaluating your reads.

Note I had you as more townie than Glyph. and PL is pretty much cleared. I was wrong in my reads. Glyph was the scummiest of you two.

Why would I need to paint Glyph as scum? There's you and PL. And oh my god you're actually using the night actions to say I'm scum.


.___________________________.

Why the hell would any scum try to NK Glyph twice? Seriously, explain this. Explain why they wouldn't take any of the PRs, or guaranteed kills.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Seik its actually called waffling, and scum does it alllll the time to look good to town.

 

[Asdioh]

I seriously don't understand why you guys want to drag on this Day so much, do you think this "discussion" is actually in anyway beneficial? I could sit here stalling out until deadline watching ****ty weak cases be presented when the player writing them doesn't even beleive in them but I personally find it to be a waste of time. If Seik makes a Glyph case then fine, but I'm pretty confident it'll just be like all the others, really reaching and poor. If someone legit had a good reason to disagree with PL/Asdioh/X1/Glyph as town then I'm pretty sure they'd have it done by now.

My suggestion for tomorrow (assuming I'm not around), is outlined below. I STRONGLY suggest you follow it.

1.) WHATEVER ANYONE SUGGESTS, OR REGARDLESS OF WHAT ELSE HAPPENS, do not lynch Asdioh or PL.
2.) Ignore anything and everything that happens in the Night, because Bingo almost certainly will **** with it
3.) See if a legitimate (see below for what is legit) and not reaching case can be produced about Glyph (I'm pretty confident it won't), also see below section about what is scummy.
3A.) If it does and its actually good then make up your own minds between Seik/Glyph
3B.) If no to the good Glyph case, Lynch Seikend.


So X1, How do I tell whether certain actions are scummy or not?

Think: Would scum do this? How would their faction benefit (inc. it makes them look town).
Think: Would town do this? What does it benefit to their faction?
Think: Would town do this, even though it doesn't benefit their faction? This is the hardest one to think about, but many people fail on this and call dumb people scum, stuff like trolling, messing about, being an idiot and not putting in much effort ISN'T NECESSARILY SCUMMY. Nor is being wrong, nor is doing something you disagree with (lookin at you PL). Its also very much worth mentioning that if someone does something you can't understand, that's not scummy either, even if you can't understand their thought process, then that doesn't make them scum either, just look at whether you think they have genuine pro-town intentions or not.
Never assume: That because one person has failed to give off town tells then they are scum and vice versa. Player's are null till proven otherwise and I'm pretty confident with the exception of a few things he's done, that seems to be why everyone finds Seik town.
Weigh up: The entire actions of players that game. If one player has done one tiny scummy thing, that doesn't make them scum on its own, if their whole game they've also been exhibiting town tells.
Don't: Count Seikend self voting as a town tell. Seriously don't he could easily have been told about it by J (who did it to almost win in Inception). I know its basically gonna be impossible to convince you of this and I'm sure someone will ask me why I didn't make a bigger deal out of this earlier, but whatever, the first part of this mini-guide thing reminds us that sometimes scum do stuff just to look town, hence bussing etc. I actually think if you weigh up the self voting incident in this mini-guide, remembering that scum can do stuff just to look town its not even that much of a town tell. Whatever.

unless someone has any questions, then I'm 100% ok with ending the Day now.

le bump

Seik the night actions are just part of my read, gosh.

 

[Seikend]

Funny how that works out.



Uhhhhhhhh
You had no connections to anyone else.

That is what scum live and breath on for NK's stuff that CAN'T BE TRACED BACK TO THEM.

'kay. It makes you look scummy too.

If J didn't want to play, he would not have played. Its that simple. There is absolutely no reason to conclude that post was even true, since the purpose of it was clearly give town the impression he was town (something we've been over and over and over)

.___________________.

He didn't want to be scum. Doesn't mean he doesn't want to play. Play for your faction.

And we disagree then. It's obv to me J didn't want to be scum.

Quite the oversight there. In fact I'm pretty sure that none of the current players are cleared as town based off investigations.

wutttt. We had clears on every living number except 12 iirc.

 

[Asdioh]

wutttt. We had clears on every living number except 12 iirc.

relinking this; http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12700232&postcount=3340

inno on 1 and 8, but we dont' know who they are. no investigation on me, and 13 is teh shaky hands.

 

[Asdioh]

and glyph is claiming you're 13 and scum.

i still don't understand why he chose to do the number investigation + cop investigation on you, instead of seeing if you performed any night action as a claimed VT.

 

[Seikend]

Seik its actually called waffling, and scum does it alllll the time to look good to town.

Let's play a little game and we'll assume I'm town for now, okay?

Say, as town, I say three people look townie.

We then have those three people in LYLO. What do I do?

Throw my hands up and say I don't know who scum is, I give up?

Orrrr, re-evaluate?

Re-evaluating to find the last scum sounds appropriate.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Asdioh bear in mind that I thought Seik was town going into toDay, though more likely to be scum than you or PL. Had he been doing nothing that night, I would have wasted my power. At least this way would have ended up with his number and alignment, giving us a clear for the next day.

Seik, its hard to believe that your re-evaluation picked up on THAT many things based off assuming I'm scum, especially when most (arguably all) the "conclusions" you reached were just as easy to determine without that pre-condition. You literally went from "everything is good" to "everything is bad".

 

[Seikend]

Asdioh bear in mind that I thought Seik was town going into toDay, though more likely to be scum than you or PL. Had he been doing nothing that night, I would have wasted my power. At least this way would have ended up with his number and alignment, giving us a clear for the next day.

Seik, its hard to believe that your re-evaluation picked up on THAT many things based off assuming I'm scum, especially when most (arguably all) the "conclusions" you reached were just as easy to determine without that pre-condition. You literally went from "everything is good" to "everything is bad".

Super Duper Town
GLG/Aposl - Cleared by the existence of the other. Will not lynch either (even though I still think Aposl's play was scummy as hell earlier)

Town
Asdioh/Seik - Very pro-town play, I won't be comfortable lynching either of them.

The Rest
PL - Really dug into the point about the Kev/J thing. Could just be Ran being Ran, but the fact that he was willing to call me 100% scum based off that alone after his hydra had maintained a town read on me that same day is weird. Overall though, I still don't know that its play points to scum or just town being hindered by being a hydra.
RR - Scummy play, weak stances, not committal. Kev lurked from pretty much D2 onwards, and even D1 he wasn't much of a presence. BUT. We also know RR is #6, meaning if we lynch him (and he flips town) scum gets a bingo.

There's simply too many risks in lynching someone right now and too much reason to believe there's no more NKing members left to not support a NL imo

What happened since here to change me from "not comfortable lynching" to scummier than PL?


So your explanation for not questioning and pushing stances and for little connections (i.e. scummy) is to draw the NK, correct?

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Uhhhhhh the QT happened.

That, and I didn't need to since I was kinda busy focusing on getting J dead. Oh right, because he was scum.

 

[Asdioh]

*reading through the beginning of the game*
*sees PL buddying the hell out of J and hopes PL isn't the last scum*
*remembers that the last scum is either Glyph or Seik with Glyph's claim*

I got this.
I'm preeeetty sure that the early-game Glyph vs J stuff was not faked SvS action. J legitimately didn't look like he wanted to die early on. I also noticed that neither J nor TDW joined in on the earlygame Seik wagon, and thus far (on page 8) they've barely commented on him, with J choosing to focus on Glyph to the exclusion of all else, trying to get him lynched, and TDW just coasting.

 

[Asdioh]

J, when you flip scum, who would you say your scummate is?

lol'd

Not by a mile! This game is just a bit different than the others I've joined in that it allows me certain liberties I cannot take in a normal situation.

hmm. Seems like it.

So, JTB scum, yeah?

His play has been non-commital. All he's done so far is state that I'm scum, KevinM is town and that Asdioh must be scum because he doesn't see me as scum.

So what, 3 stances at best, with absolutely no explanation, and no scumhunting at all?

27 posts and that's all you've got?

Nah.

Vote:JTB

Weak defense is weak mang. I don't care that you have a problem with Seikend, cuz he's actually done stupid s***, but asdioh saying he's gettin town vibes from em isn't scummy in the slightest. It's just as scummy as you calling him scum. And obtw it isn't.

Oh, and what happens if he flips town? Do YOU look bad for going on an easy wagon?

Point is don't hop on asdioh's d*** till he does something d***hop worthy.

I want to see more of Seikend vs. JTB. It is interesting especially to see the sides people will begin to take on the two. That's from just reading the little tackle between the two. I don't know whether to call it TvT, SvT, or SvS....want more.

My bad. I didn't get the question originally.


Your goal is for town to play to their wincon.
J's goal is for players to enjoy the game.

Not allowing Ran to speak looks stupid to J because it opposes his goal for the game, whilst it makes perfect sense to you because it works towards your goal.

Whilst allowing Ran to speak is apparently anti-town (I don't know myself but I'll take your word for it), anti-town isn't always a scumtell.

The exchange is null for me. It's just a difference in beliefs.

Wow I like that answer but don't at the same time.

One it seems to be completely right.

But at the same time it is so fence-sitty and doesn't really conflict with neither GLG or Myself.....

blarg head hurt x_x

So... 15 pages in the game, and TDW, Seik, and J strongly avoid taking real stances on each other. Seik barely mentions the J/Glyph conflict, remains neutral on it but with a slight hint of thinking Glyph is scum.

I'm going to continue reading, but I'm pretty confident that Seikend is our scum. I'm going to take note of how the JTB wagon goes, and Seik's reaction to J's watcher claim.

 

[Seikend]

...

Did anyone take a strong stance on TDW at that point?

What was TDW's stance on Glyph?

 

[Asdioh]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12463324&postcount=563
Glyph isn't scum I hope I hope I hope I hope

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12463478&postcount=574 Seik does noooooot want to take a hard stance on J. Funny when he asks JTB if he does shortly after: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12463728&postcount=593

Oh SNAP until he finally does here! http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12463778&postcount=597
Also included JTB in there, who J conveniently convinced others to lynch later on as well. It's weird though how after all the stuff J was doing, he used "interesting" as his scumtell. :|

BSL/Seikend/J scum team yo

Seikend calling J and JTB scum makes me think he sees an inevitable J lynch and is trying to distance himself while placing suspicion on myself.

Holy balls, spot on good sir.

 

[Asdioh]

Seik, TDW had barely done crap at that point. TDW and J chainsawed (I think I'm using that term correctly) each other a bit, but other than that TDW just coasted and presented weak stances. You guys still avoided each other though, while Glyph clearly wasn't avoiding anyone, which you argue is a bus and I disagree, and have disagreed since the beginning.

 

[Seikend]

It's pretty evident that you've already made up your mind I'm scum. No one had taken a stance on TDW at that point and they had no reason to. Likewise TDW had taken no strong stances on most people (including Glyph iirc).

I commented on J/Glyph, there wasn't much to do it. It was an argument with no substance. J/GLG over how PL should post was horrendously null. It was irrelevant to scumhunting. Tell me what stance you would have taken on them based on their interactions with each other, and why.

If you're just reading everything as me being scum without considering the possibility of Glyph being scum you're wasting your time.

 

[Seikend]

...


wuttttt.

Me not commenting on TDW is me avoiding him.

Glyph not commenting on TDW isn't avoiding him.


What should I have addressed from TDW?


?????

 

[Asdioh]

I'm only looking at the three person scumteam as a whole. Ignore TDW for now, like I said, he was coasting and barely doing anything, it's hard to get a read on anyone like that. Focus more on J, and the fact that he posted a ton but you barely had a stance on him, until, like JTB keenly pointed out, you thought his lynch was likely and wanted to hop on (for the weakest reasons) before it was too late.

I'm also considering the possibility of Glyph being scum, but it seems sooo much more likely that it's you.

 

[Asdioh]

Think of it like this Smargz, even though I think I've made it abundantly clear: If BSL flips town, then I think Glyph is scum. If BSL flips scum, then I'll have to reread/talk to Kuz about Glyph. In my head scum's def. in there between those two. Do you think that BSL v Glyph can possibly be T v T?

Do you think scum would want Glyph to bus J and then TDW to bus Glyph?

 

[Seikend]

Ughh, I brought that point up for Glyph town too.

It's townie, I can agree. But it's easy to make comments with no backup. If they had the chance to push Nabescum then, yeah. I'd be with you.

 

[Asdioh]

bigass post from J, where he expresses some dissatisfaction with Seik, but makes a major case against me. http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12467583&postcount=715

notice his scumpicks are me, Seik, and Glyph. Bleh.