Bingo Mafia: OVAH! Who won?

[Seikend]

'kay, skimmed. Think it might hold some weight.

I'll try to take some hard stances tommorow.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

Alright this is Nabe and X1/GLG's interactions after cop claim:

'kay, cool.

I'm town cop, unconfirmed sanity.
I have a guilty on TDW and I'd like to lynch him.

Vote: TDW
I'm wondering if my town bro Soup will join me in this.

(This is in reference to TDW's post)

scum

1.) Buddies Nabe
2.) Tries to redirect, move away from the guilty he has on him and start talking about other players
3.) Tries to act way more clued up than he is
4.) so much more redirection
5.) More buddying


discuss

also 6.) Instantly assumes NabeTown.

Here he is being very careful about looking at TDW's responses, not basing his read on TDW on the guilty (contrary to what a lot of people, ourselves included, did after the guilty) but really focusing in on TDW's scummy behavior.

Based purely on that post, I'm OK with TDW dying

Same as above, but it is pretty clear that he is not basing his reads off the guilty but off TDW himself.

basically anyone who just played DKR with me read the post where I cleared Asdioh because of his response to MY fakeclaim. Now look at how TDW reacts its the polar opposite basically.

@Soup: Do I look like I've read the thread?

Alright, X1 definitely, definitely knew that Nabe was pulling a gambit here, he even correlates this experience to DKR and emphasizes HIS fakeclaim, definitely hinting he knows Nabe isn't cop but is playing along. The only way he would know that Nabe isn't cop and is fakeclaiming is if he is the cop himself.

And now my reads continue to be shot all to hell. X1 is legit after looking at this, and he was smart to let Nabe's gambit run its course and not cc him right away.

So now I guess I am going to have to look at Soup *dies a little bit inside*.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

@Asdioh: This is our post in response to your post #2507 (if you want me to repost it I can, I'm just posting this one for now because yours is hella long)

Holy hell, Asdioh is going to make us do work. Alright.

JTB's comment on his own wagon is really focused around Soup and J. (-town points Soup).

Glyph's 1384 is above all hella extensive and extremely critical of J (+ Glyph town points).

J's 1562 is in response to a very good post by GLG (+ town points), is aggressive towards Glyph supposedly standing in the way of a lynch (+Glyph town points), and says "KevinM can do whatever he wants because he is freaking KevinM and should be kept alive till the end"...(-lots of town points for Kevin).

Aposl's 1785...I'm not really sure what to make his reasoning for questioning J, but I do like the part about Glyph that is quoted there (+ town points Glyph).

TDW's 2017 looks genuinely frustrated at X1's push against J (+ town points for X1). They then call Seikend obvtown, which is a pretty strong read with very little substantiation (- town points Seik).

TDW including Aposl and JTB in his scumpicks is honestly hard to figure out. X1 gave me a lot of advice on this in Newb 11 that ultimately taught me: scum will try and **** with your head through who they choose as their scum picks, so hard to tell what he is doing here.

Aposl's vote being on J is deff a good thing (+ town points).

Glyph immediately accepts Nabe guilty (+ town points).

Soup reluctance to vote on TDW (- town points).

Asdioh good reaction to Nabe's guilty on Kuz (+ town points Asdioh).

Glyph calling J/TDW scum team before TDW lynch (++ town points).

Reaction to Nabe's guilty is super anti-Soup (+ town points for Soup).

GLG's response to TDW's response to Nabe's guilty (++ town points).

Aposl says there was a connection early on between TDW and us but says its only a suspicion and hasn't really pushed it, which makes me think it might be an honest attempt to scumhunt *although incorrect* (+ points Aposl).

Soup/TDW distancing each other is possible (- town points Soup). Also - points for next part of that where he says he wouldn't have suspected TDW without Nabe's guilty.

Aposl encouraging everyone to comment (+ town points).

Kevin's response to the guilty on TDW is just weird, not sure how to take it either way.

I'm just going to let Asdioh's analysis of the votecounts stand because that's about as good as I could ever hope to analyze that (++ town points Asdioh).

RESULTS of looking over Asdioh's analysis:

PL: town
Asdioh: town
Glyph: town
GLG: Actually looking pretty townie after that analysis, willing to consider him town for now.
KevinM: Scummy, J saying that Kevin should be kept alive until the end gives me a really bad vibe, along with that disinterested response to Nabe's guilty.
Seikend: I'm going to put Seikend leaning town. I realize the only thing here about Seik is - town points, but I remember when JTB claimed and Seik reacted extremely townie and went back to voting J out of a genuine belief that JTB was town.
Aposl: Is tricky, I'm going to say null. He has some things that are bad and some things that are pro-town. I do think scum Aposl is still possible because even though he is new, if he was scum we know he was under the wings of J, Kuz and GLG who could really help him.
Soupamario: Actually came out looking pretty scummy from this exercise. He was very strongly on the J side, and took some time to convince of the TDW guilty. Distancing could be possible.

Alright so that was actually pretty revealing. Still feeling Asdioh and Glyph town, and add GLG to that list for now. Seikend is still leaning town to me via above reasoning. KevinM is still the scummiest and inactive, so its even harder to get a read on him but what we have points at scum. After him Soup is admittedly looking pretty bad now; idk we've had a town read on him all game, but at this point we really admittedly have to reread him. Aposl is really hard to read, would just like to keep an eye on him for now but he could be town or scum imo.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'll be done by tonight hopefully.

 

[Asdioh]

Once again, even though we're not making much progress:


Town:

Glyphmoney: tunneled the hell out of J, gave reasonings for him being scum, mostly based on feel, but that feel was correct. I think it was legitimate, and he was scumhunting too hard for it to be bussing imo, especially since he pointed out TDW/J scumteam which probably would not help if he were scum. I also expected him to be NKed, and his bulletproof claim makes sense. If he were scum, would he go through the trouble of bussing the crap out of scummates/not sending in a night kill just to appear to be the towniest, bulletproof towny? I doubt it.

GandhiLaserGun: he helped influence people toward the TDW lynch, he felt I was townie when he could have hammered me or found things to make me scummy, his cop claim makes sense coupled with Aposl's claim.

Asdioh: I'll let someone else say why I'm town. (hint: J tunneled the **** out of me, for starters)

Red Ryu: his play MIGHT have been towny enough while Kevin was still in the game. I personally thought he was arrogant and likely scum back then, trying to get by on reputation alone, but he did present some stances, albeit without giving reasoning much of the time. In addition, the Cop clear on him. I'd also like to say that Aposl called this slot scum because killing Kevin could have resulted in a Bingo for scum, however I don't think the fact that Glyph was chosen necessarily means that Kevin is the scum. The thing is, Glyph seems more obviously towny to me, so killing him would benefit scum more. Scum had no idea Glyph was bulletproof.

Aposl: his play has been sketchy, partly because he's new, but his claim makes enough sense. It makes the Cop role less powerful. I doubt Aposl would be able to fake something like this.


What Do:

Pink Lemonade: seems to have been trying to help. Agrees with me a lot, but that's not necessarily a town or scum tell. Was kind of buddied by both J and TDW at different times in the game.

Seikend: Shall I invoke the wisdom of The Ghost of JTB and assume Seik is scum? I'm having trouble getting a solid read on him.

Soupamario: Soup, soup, soup. He's done some seriously scummy things. One of his saving graces is that TDW tried to redirect his lynch onto Soup. That doesn't necessarily clear Soup though.



I'd appreciate if people helped me add more to summarize the PL, Seik, and Soup section.
Pretty sure our scum is in there though.

 

[Asdioh]

X1 is legit

Absolutely right.

So now I guess I am going to have to look at Soup *dies a little bit inside*.

If you can, focus on Seikend and Soup to the exclusion of all else, because if you're not the scum, then one of them VERY LIKELY is.

Same to Seik and Soup. I want the three of you to look the thread over and focus on the other two, and convince everyone here that you are town and one of the others is scum. Hopefully we'll be able to evaluate all that and choose correctly.

@GLG, Red Ryu: do you agree with this post?

 

[Asdioh]

unvote
Vote: Soupamario


Dunno where you went, but your weird flavor speculation earlier today wasn't all that helpful. You're looking kind of legit, but so are Seik and PL, so we're having trouble deciding ^_^ I hope you can make a case on either of them whenever you get back.

 

[Pink Lemonade]

If you can, focus on Seikend and Soup to the exclusion of all else, because if you're not the scum, then one of them VERY LIKELY is.

Same to Seik and Soup. I want the three of you to look the thread over and focus on the other two, and convince everyone here that you are town and one of the others is scum. Hopefully we'll be able to evaluate all that and choose correctly.

@GLG, Red Ryu: do you agree with this post?

Kk I will work on it, my aim is to get it posted sometime still tonight.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Based on what I have read, Seikend I feel he is less likely to be scum, but Soup is raising my interest in tunneling him feels more like scum.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Asdioh, do you think that Aposl could have faked this role with the help of TDW and J? I agree that alone he wouldn't probably have gone for it, but remember he started crumbing on D2, and both J and TDW were alive and well that day.

Really the only snag in my case against Aposl is his claim backing up GLG's like it does, and its really a stark contradiction to how he's been playing. Bah, I don't know.

 

[July]

I'm sorry but I can't finish this reread tonight, I will have it tomorrow but I need to sleep. I'm on page 28 right now.

 

[Asdioh]

28 of...
*checks*
68 pages holy craaaaap

 

[Kataefi]

VOTE COUNT!

[2] Seikend - GandhiLaserGun / Aposl
[1] Aposl - Glyphmoney
[1] Pink Lemonade - Soupamario
[1] Soupamario - Asdioh

[0] Asdioh
[0] Glyphmoney
[0] GandhiLaserGun
[0] Red Ryu

[3] Not Voting: Red Ryu / Pink Lemonade / Seikend

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!
Deadline set for Thursday, May 5th, Midnight GMT.

 

[X1-12]

PL you dont seem to understand that sometimes scum do stuff just to look town or just so people say "why would he do that as scum? He must be town".

At this stage in the game you cant judge someones alignment from just one post

 

[Seikend]

'kay, got my head out my ***.

#2682 is a super good post. I believe X1 is the cop.

X1, Aposl and RR are pretty much confirmed town. Aposl confirmed by his role, still feel his actions have been scummy but eh. The only way RR could be scum if he's Godfather, but as X1 said, that's unlikely with the set-up we have.

I have a strong town read on PL. Poor interactions with J/TDW but their play alone has been strong. I like that they're working toDay to find scum and town. A couple of things bug me, but I'll get to them later.

My read on Asdioh is the same as PL, but to a lesser extent. Ignoring my gut on Asdioh currently.

I believe Glyph's claim. Still iffy about how he caught J scum so quickly but that's the only substantial thing I have on him.

My Soup read is a very strong gut read.

Scum is between Glyph/Soup imo. RR and Asdioh are possibilities, but not likely ones at all.

I'll be re-reading at some point ToDay and I'll be asking a lot of questions.

 

[Seikend]

Hang on :/.

Asdioh's bit on Glyph makes sense. Glyph would still be considered obv-town even with a NK happening.

Move Glyph to strong town.

 

[Asdioh]

keep up the good work seik.

i just pulled an all-nighter so don't expect much coherent stuff from me until maybe after work this afternoon :D

 

[Seikend]

Soup needs to come back and give his scumpicks w/ explanation :/.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

my timing is wonderful.

Town (that is not cleared) -
Asdioh - was wrong about my read on this one D2, and i think the zen scum flip def clears him in my eyes.
PL (changed my mind on this one.) - nothing legitly scummy, perhaps D1 was a bit off to me, but my reads has improved, along with past conflict and whatnot.
Soup - because he's cool yo

Town (that is cleared) -
GLG
Aposl
Glyph
RR/KevinM

Scum -
Anyone i didn't mention.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

vauge post but i got class so derp

 

[Asdioh]

Scum -
Anyone i didn't mention.

that would be Seikend.

look forward to your reads after skoo :O

 

[Seikend]

#2683

Glyph gets double town points for calling J/TDW when I said J/TDW/Soup before that .__. tear.

Do I get triple if Soup flips scum?


@Soup

... You have no reason for why I'm scum? Definetely interested in what Soup comes up with.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

God i hate making huge posts but i'm creating one at the moment so hold on.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

OH **** NO I CLOSED OUT WHYYYYY

*sighhhhhhh.*

okay to save my patience -

Seikend, you're null, but you're a scum null, i re-read ALOT and i see some town points on you but i also see more scum points though.

allow me to summarize.

+ States his opnion often and is usually not afraid to share it
+ Often pressuring his scum reads (D1 atleast.)
+ Good D1 Play.

= Changes mind often.
= Coasting

- Contradictions abound
- Defensive at times
- Bad D2/D3 Play (hardly remember you doing anything at all...is not at all like D1 seikend.)
- Quick to judge, but not quick to answer.

Your D1 play - Town
D2 play - Null
D3 play (so far) - Null leaning scum.

In the end, i just think PL is more town then you, and people are saying it's gonna be me, you, or PL, and i would rather go with my town read then my null read, k?

yes, i know people are going to ask "SHOW ME WHERE HE DOES THESE THINGS" and i will say "no, i'm ****ing lazy and go look it up yourself :3"

Unvote vote: Seikend

 

[Asdioh]

Soup says he hates making huge posts, then a mere 11 minutes later he says he accidentally deleted his huge post, but to save his patience still posts a relatively large, detailed post anyway o_O either he types/thinks really fast, or is BSing

#2683

Glyph gets double town points for calling J/TDW when I said J/TDW/Soup before that .__. tear.

Do I get triple if Soup flips scum?

can you show me where you did that?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

that's a large post? ._.

it's not detailed at all, i don't have explanations as to why there are those things and when i go "yep i'm gonna be pro-town and decipher everything possible" and then i put alot of effort into something and i thought i could save it somehow if i bookmarked it so i did and 'x'ed out and then i try to re-load and it goes NOPE.

and yes i type very fast the quick brown asdioh jumps over the lazy seikend over the moon and into the horizon of stars we go yes

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Before I post my reads on everyone, I noticed GLG, KevinM/myself and Seikend never voted on either scum during both votes.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

NOPE.

GLG voted on J D1/D2/D3
Seikend voted on J D1/D2/D3
KevinM did not vote J D1/D2/D3

GLG did not vote on TDW D2
Seikend did not vote on TDW D2?
KevinM did not vote on TDW D2

 

[Seikend]

can you show me where you did that?

#1974

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12528248&postcount=1974

My recent town read on Soup has largely been influenced by gut, and Nabe.

I'm on about Page 20 of my re-read, but I've remembered something.

@PL

6. Toasting Dat Walrus- straightforward, has scum picks, has been pretty actively pushing his scum picks and pushing against other players for reactions, town play so far

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12523875&postcount=1935

Can you explain this? Do you still stand by that it looked like TDW was scumhunting and was actively pushing them?

and yes i type very fast the quick brown asdioh jumps over the lazy seikend over the moon and into the horizon of stars we go yes

looool.

Sigged.

@Soup What is your read on me currently? Null, null-leaning scum or scum?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

null....leaning scum.

i really liked you D1, but the other days are so BLEHHHHHHHH.

Seikend, could you tell me why you all of the sudden dropped activity and helpfulnesses in the following days?

 

[X1-12]

loldemotivatedcausewelynchedhisbuddies

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Soup I'm talking about hammer votes, any scum will vote each other to look like they aren't connected then unvote later, at the end of each day, those three did not vote as part of the lynch either of those days.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Oh, okay.

say hammer next time

 

[Seikend]

null....leaning scum.

i really liked you D1, but the other days are so BLEHHHHHHHH.

Seikend, could you tell me why you all of the sudden dropped activity and helpfulnesses in the following days?

:/.

Obviously I'm less active ToDay than D1. Who isn't?

Do you feel I've failed to address anything? If I could have been more active, what should I have talked about?

D2 was run by Nabe. He said he has a guilty on you Soup, and I worked on finding something without outing what I thought was the cop. I also expressed TDW scum and got people's views on it.

D3... seriously? Go back, and read through it, please. Even skim if it if you like. Half the posts were mine, I was pushing and asking questions.

D4, I admit I was playing crappy at the start. Stepping it up now.


Am I seriously going to have to present you with a case for why I'm town Soup?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

why do you need to provide a case that you're town, shouldn't you know that you are town?

why don't you try convincing me who is scum, instead covering your own ***.

and k that's nice to questions and whatnot but you never accomplished anything significant k?
neither did i, really, so i digress.

 

[Seikend]

why do you need to provide a case that you're town, shouldn't you know that you are town?

Are you being serious Soup? You present a case to convince other people. You're giving dumb generalised reasons for why I'm scum but I'm not sure if you're town with a bad case of the tunnels or scum.

why don't you try convincing me who is scum, instead covering your own ***.

I'm still re-reading bro.

and k that's nice to questions and whatnot but you never accomplished anything significant k?
neither did i, really, so i digress

???

I answered your question. You seem fine with the answer but now I didn't "accomplish anything significant". Will any answer appease Soup?

 

[July]

Okay, so...I am done with rereading, I have my thoughts, although they are not completely coherent at all points, and I will post that in the next couple minutes. However, what I have taken from my reread is that Soup is much more likely to be scum than Seikend. Seikend played badly Day 1 imo, but it seemed more like confused town while Soup has shown much more legitimately scummy behavior.

I will post it and you guys can decide for yourselves, some parts were bolded that got lost from word to here but if its quoted there is prolly something significant I found in it if I didn't explicitly say so.

unvote
Vote: Soupamario

 

[July]

Alright summarizing some, quoting some:
Pre-game
Seikend: Says that he will not play until everyone is confirmed, which is a bit scummy but also a pretty big point of contention between players (as evidenced in DKR) so take it how you like. He does not find Smarg scummy though from the pre-game chatter, which I do think is townie.
Soup: Tells Seik he wishes they could hydra, they have a bit of back and forth about pretending they are a hydra and just discussing everything in thread. Then Soup votes Seikend, which seems jokingly, then this conversation follows:

Spoiler

I'm getting scum vibes from Seik/Aposi right now, after re-reading of course.

Add JTB in there too.

Cool, so your vote wasn't just RVS.

Care to explain your reasoning? You seem pretty confident on me being scum just from 3 of my posts.

@Seik
usage of your words and how you are responding.
Why so not want discussion?
why so waiting for me to confirm?
Why so wanting so much information out of just me, but not anyone else?

@BSL

i said this in Dissidia, i will say it again foo
Playing your best=/=Acting your best

Soup jumps right into analyzing Seikend’s posts, not really sure if this is rapid scumhunting or simply jumping the gun too early, considering its based almost completely around Seikend not wanting to start before everyone confirmed.
In response to saying that he wanted to wait for everyone to confirm:

Don't feel that is a viable answer really, almost is like "well if everyone isn't here we should just wait, that way noone can get any pre-game reads and makes it easier to scum to slime around."

This is a good point, I agree with pre-game discussion helping town and stifling it helping scum so + town points on this post.
This part is a little weird, Soup is really insistent on informing us that playing your best =/= acting your best…

and thus my point is still:
Playing your best=/=Acting your best
this is a game of deception, not honesty, not character, deception.
if you can Act as stupid, and make people believe you, then that is a way of play.

personally Acting for me comes to be a good thing in these types of games.
you are basically acting (for the most part) that you are town.
i don't feel this is very on-topic, but i like a good debate, so you can pm or something if you like.

Just weird, think it might relate to a post he had later on about the most townie person being scum ,the scummiest being town and everything, but I just want to keep this in mind until I get there.

Vote: Sqweedle and Pink Lemonade
Either of these are a nice lynch amirite?
Should be reading thread within the next two hours.

@BSL
FMPOV i feel mafia would not try and make his/her stance to something like that, or even suspect it.
so yeah, that's just my call.

This has been posted before but I just wanted to quote it because it is an apparently joking suggestion to lynch us and Soup, which Soup ignores now but will echo later in his posts in reference to us.

JTB is starting to look obv scum again but eh, we should wait.

What…Soup didn’t bring up JTB scum before now, he was mostly focused on Seik so this is a bit out of nowhere.

Smar is female.
Yeah, my first and last points are repeats. I tend to summarise at the end.
The second point refers specifically to the first post Smar makes. It's a null tell.
The third point refers specifically to the second post Smar makes. I don't know what to think of this.
There's a clear difference between the two. One could be scummy, the other isn't.

Not really sure what Seik was trying to say here, but I believe he was trying to validate his lack of suspicions of Smarg? A little weak but still he wasn’t get dragged onto the Smarg wagon despite pressure so in that aspect its good.

X1, thoughts on BSL?
thoughts on me?

You shouldn’t be concerned what other players reads on you are >< - town points for Soup

No. The first point is stating I don't see Smarg as scummy.
The fourth is stating that there's nothing significant enough to say Smarg as scum. There's nothing significant because out of the two posts one is a null and the other I don't know what to think of. There's a lack of information.

Seik and Soup have a little back and forth about “lack of information” v. “lack of confrontation” that I really couldn’t find much value in. Seik said there was too little info for Smarg scum, Soup said there was enough confrontation between her and others to form an opinion, but both views don’t seem complete tbh.

smarggg, i made a good point too. ;_;
/not appreciated

No, you didn't. You made a point, that says nothing about the merits of that point.

Soup looking for validation from town and getting rejected.

@Smarg
Having been introduced you in Dissidia as female was the biggest flaw in the test really. Whether I'm scum or town, I already knew your gender so it doesn't test if I was being fed information or lines by scummates either way.
However, by trying to use the test I can see GLG as town.
BSL answering the question for soup still is iffy, but he's town for now.
Soup is looking kinda scummy.

Soup and Seik are deff playing different types of games. Ultimately Seik is gathering information and taking a much wider view, which I like even though Soup is scumhunting in the strictest sense of the word (ignoring pro-town activity (except his own) and honing in on scummy behavior).

kuz who the hell is this Seikend kid and what did you teach him. Is he being fed these lines? Really think about it though before you answer. Is #155 him trying to look clever, and if so, is that scummy?

This is interesting, just because it GLG brings up the idea of Kuz “feeding” Seik lines well before TDW flips scum.

:/.
The case against me:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12447941&postcount=124
My response:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12447997&postcount=132
I have nothing left to respond to. Please point out why my defence is weak.

This is pretty focused on defense, which shouldn’t be his goal so early on. – town points Seik.

Alright.
TL;DR
The case against me implies that I'm fluffing content. I've shown in:
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12447997&postcount=132
That this was not fluff, but an individual look at both posts made by Smarg, and a summary. Neither am I trying to to hide a lack of stance, as I explicitly state "There's not been anything significant enough to say that smar is scum yet.". I know there's a lack of stance.

But to expect a stance from those two posts is ridiculous.

This is still defense, however there is a bit more here in that he is adamant that he was right and there was not enough info to think Smarg was scum yet. Seik is a bit weak in his posts at this point but it at least feels genuine.

i was about to say something obvious but i forgot that there are hypocrites among us.

Not even sure what this means but its harsh for being so nonspecific :-/.

In terms of Glyph/J.
The only real issue I have with Glyph is his over-confidence on KevinM and J as town and scum respectively. Unfortunately I don't know how reliable his meta on them for self-claiming town, so I can't say if his confidence is justified.
It does make Glyph look scummy though.
J as null at the moment.
@J
Sqweedle as scummy on my wagon, BSL as null-leaning-scum. JTB needs a looking at, but he's inactive null.
Everyone else as null or town.

Goodposting, very direct and lays out some suspects which he follows up on and makes a good post about Soup:

He's not been contributing.
On his second post after confirming he votes me. He double posts and he states he gets scum vibes from me.
He then argues with BSL a bit about irrelevant things, self clears himself and BSL as town, argues some more semantics. His last five posts in particular provide nothing.
So after voting me as scum, what has he done? The only content I see from him is stating that I'm scum, because of this gem:
"usage of your words and how you are responding."
and just stating that he sees his exchange with BSL as TvT.
He does a lot of talking early on, provides no content, and isn't contributing when y'know, we actually have things to discuss.

The bolded chunk of that post is really good and seems like he is legitimately trying to get a read on Soup.

also @Pink lemonade
limited internet access, over spring break i will be very active though, so wait until friday
even before re-reading, JTB is my next to lynch list, but that may change.

Not really liking this, and I feel like Soup keeps falling back on JTB when he loses his current thought process.

Glyph:
that is two sides of the coin, too town can be played off of mafia or town themselves, GLG for now is that coin, null, if you will.
also, why is J scum? were you just looking for a quick lynch?
KevinM:
Personally, this coin is also with KevinM, he is very confident, composed, and vibrant, i feel that he could be a use for us or a dangerment, if means come to, i will go against the strongest in this game if i find something.
seeing BSL as scum makes me want to tilt my head a little, but i don't have any idea of how KevinM plays so i digress.
meaning..i'm keeping an eye on you, very closely, Kevin.
J:
Town for now, i dunno, i can see why some would think he/she is scum, "Yay i'm town now" can be such a stupid gesture to either side, but he/she may be just town...appreciating he/she is town.
sorry, dunno your gender. :X
#252 AGREE.
Pink Lemonade:
Jesus christ, could you be more scum?
you are basically contradicting yourself, and the fact you are hesitant and trying to cover yourself with another head of yours is absolute bull****.
also your other posts are just regular questioning and trying to fit into the town, so yeah.

Seikend:
Off the hook for now, i did have a gut feeling you could just be playing the passive yet agressive card.
Toastin Dat Walrus:
Dunno. needs moar posts.
BSL:
Sticking with town still, yet to see anything that really catches my eye.
JTB:
Willing to just go with a seikend Lynch, fluffing, not saying much, 'can't scumhunt D1' bull****.
Smarg: Null, leaning town.
AposL: post more, or i see scum.
Everyone else i didn't mention: nothing really that caught my eye.

Alright…first bolded part I feel kind of goes along with his earlier philosophy that the game is all about deception and he seems to feel the strongest players need to be challenged because they could be a “use” or a “detriment”…I don’t like that outlook this early in the game.
Second bolded part seems really fake to me because I KNOW Soup was in a game before with J so I’m assuming somewhere in that time he found out J is a guy. This also comes on the heels of X1 asking Seik to give Smarg’s gender to see if they had outside communication (a flawed test but well intentioned) and I think this could have been Soup’s attempt at distancing from J. That’s my theory at least and definite – town points for Soup.
J presents his views on a couple players, ourselves and Asdioh being highlights, but doesn’t mention Soup. Immediately afterwards Soup and J have this convo:

Spoiler

Soup, against popular consensus, I'm a dude and 100% glad to be.

kay, J, might i ask you a bit on Kevin?
is he always this confident?

Missed this question, from what I've gathered from playing with Kevin he is a rather confident individual, hates repeting himself, tends to dislike n00bs especially annoying ones that find him scummy, tends to do very odd things that are against the flow, and will openly tell you to your face if he thinks you and your opinion are dumb as all else.
Summary: A blunt person that can be a very tricky person to get a solid read on. Especially with his post style.

thoughts on Pink Lemonade?
also after looking around a tad i can see some BSL scum motives, that little post with the post numbers was awful.

There is this back and forth and J answers Soup’s questions but doesn’t give a read on Soup himself at any point.

So, JTB scum, yeah?
His play has been non-commital. All he's done so far is state that I'm scum, KevinM is town and that Asdioh must be scum because he doesn't see me as scum.
So what, 3 stances at best, with absolutely no explanation, and no scumhunting at all?
27 posts and that's all you've got?
Nah.
Vote:JTB

However I also don’t like this post from Seikend, it comes from pretty much out of nowhere and takes a pretty hard stance on JTB despite Seik being quite calm and reasonable most of the game. Decent reasoning but not enough. – town points.
Seikend then has it out a bit with JTB over the timing of their cases and Seikend says he has made a case against Soup, which is true. Gives a little more backing to his out-of-nowhere vote on JTB.

Glyph Vs. BSL
SvS
i really see this as trying to make people think they hate eachother so we/i wouldn't consider it.
rereading still so chillax.

This sentiment will be reiterated by TDW who also asks me suggestively if I feel Glyph v. BSL is S v. S and when I said there was something to the argument, which I thought was more likely T v. S or T v. T.

My bad. I didn't get the question originally.
Your goal is for town to play to their wincon.
J's goal is for players to enjoy the game.

Not allowing Ran to speak looks stupid to J because it opposes his goal for the game, whilst it makes perfect sense to you because it works towards your goal.
Whilst allowing Ran to speak is apparently anti-town (I don't know myself but I'll take your word for it), anti-town isn't always a scumtell.
The exchange is null for me. It's just a difference in beliefs.

I like this post, Seikend comes out to a null on the whole thing but he correctly points out that X1 is playing to a town wincon while J was being focused on people enjoying the game. He also has another good post on this subject that digs a little deeper here:

The difference between calling someone "******-dumb", and stopping someone from posting is that saying stuff, however mean, is playing mafia. Stopping people from saying stuff is well, stopping people from playing mafia.
On the other hand I can see the possibility for scum intent behind the original post, and the comment seems to have come from nowhere.
I'll keep it in mind, but I'm not for pushing a J lynch currently.

And gets really into the issue here:

What's the intent of the post?
It doesn't make sense as a town post.
It completely avoids the recent exchange (JTB/Seikend).
It's not scumhunting at all.
On the other hand.
It leads conversation towards discussion that doesn't scumhunt. (Discussing whether Ran should post or not isn't scumhunting).
It's calling out GLG as "******-dumb". Creates a bad impression of GLG, makes him less trustworthy.

Seik calls out J for dragging on a conversation that leads town away from scumhunting and lessens GLG’s credibility, which is goodposting by Seik.

hmmm..



anyone else feel there is relation to some people in the votes?

Toastin votes BSL (No Voted)
I vote BSL (previously on seikend)
JTB..votes BSL (previously on Seikend)

Glyph votes J
Gahndi votes J (previously on seikend,backed down.)
Seikend votes J (previously on JTB.)
Asdioh votes J (previously on JTB)

PL votes Glyph (previously on noone)
Smargaret votes Glyph (previously on seikend)

J votes Asdioh (Asdioh is on J)[CROSS]
Aposl votes Smargaret (previously on noone??)

continuing this with a huge note on this, i'm looking for relations and conflicts.

This seems like a lot of IIoA and on top of that, the reads he comes out with are shoddy at best and don’t really provide much to discuss imo. Followed by another post of IIoA finally followed by scum picks which are…

Well, putting BSL aside it would either be:
Pink Lemonade (3 headed Hydra)
OR
Glyph.

Hmm, not really expected, two people who weren’t heavily addressed in his posts unlike Asdioh and J. Now he provides his full reads:

Town:
GLG
Seikend
Smargaret
KevinM
J
Null:
JTB
Asdioh
Toastin Dat Walrus
Scum:
Glyph
Pink Lemonade
Aposl

Which are alright I guess, not sure why Aposl is in scum because he didn’t really explain that but he does explain Glyph and I:

BSL you are null right now, i trust GLG so that's why you are.
Glyph is just acting stupid and PL just bother me.

And I am displeased >< that is not scumhunting, that is wanting to kill people because you dislike their play.

because i don't see you as the toDay lynch anymore, i still consider you possible scum, but PL is either just gonna screw it up, and glyph doesn't help worth ****.

Also not exactly scumhunting on Glyph or I, just saying that we are useless town.

Ehh, I re-read Asdioh. I agree that #352 looks bad, but I'm not seeing scum. He's not a concern ToDay.
Still iffy on BSL and Glyph.
BSL is generally fine, but there's just the occasional thing which is just... urghh.
Glyph come back and restore my faith in you .__. ;

yeah, the former.

Didn't like you answering soup's question, or putting yourself forward for a lynch. I'm sure there's other things but I've forgot.
I know you've explained them but I didn't really like the explanations.
Buuut no need to concern yourself about that yet. You're not that high on my scum list at the moment.

Seik still kinda floating by, I like his reads generally, not much to say about his play, it didn’t really stand out early in the game but he is doing work when he is suspicious of someone.

one of my main points is that Asdioh votes JTB, but JTB, does not vote back. :3

I don’t think this is a valid reason to say that JTB is scum, if he did vote back without solid reasons it would just be OMGUS.

one thing i would really like to know J, were you just estatic to be town now at that pre-game thing?
also, you had some TvS with glyph, why didn't you pursue glyph, and go after Asdioh?

also J - if there is one thing i do not like is all that AtE, and also, you respond to me in a way i'm not sure to look at
I'm not sure what you mean by this, it's almost like "i play like scum right now but doesn't mean i am scum."
please go more into detail on this.

Asking some questions of J here. One thing that I question the most rereading on Soup is if he is really genuine…

@J If JTB was my top scumpick I would have responded to him attempting to clear himself. I haven't responded because I'm not interested currently. You are currently my top pick.

This is alright. If he had something he wanted to say to JTB he should have said it, but his focusing on J is good in retrospect.

Because umadscummy.
yeah, JTB/J is very possible.
I've been vocal about JTB because I presented the case. I was a "tag-along" for you because it was GLG's main case, which I agreed with and added my points to.
That's not for me to decide, is it?

He calls J madscummy. Me like lol. J/JTB thing is a little random.

Spoiler

i almost pity J, i guess that is one of the reasons i don't want to vote him, call it buddying, but i see some honesty in his posts, and he does seem really frustrated right now.

... Are you implying scum can't be frustrated?

scum can be frustrated too, but i dunno man...just one of my reads right now.

Another victim falls to J's infamous AtE.
He shall be missed.

it's always been my read, so get that AtE outta here, i hate the AtE (lol hAtE) but... hmmm...lemme go reread seikend, i'll get back to you. :D

REALLY like this exchange, because Soup “feels pity” for J, its “just one of his reads”, while Seikend is standing by his stance that J is scum and directly confronting Soup’s stance on him.
+ town points Seik and – points for Soup.

Hi J.
Done some thinking, I realise that I'm incredibly stubborn, and it screwed me over in Dissidia. I'll present you with a case against you at some point today. Can you explain why you made this post though?
"Whoever suggested Ran should have July/Joey review all his posts before posting is just ******-dumb. I mean I've read so stupid things but damn. =3 You guys win."
I don't like you just dismissing it as a dumb point, or pointing out the smiley. Explain the reasoning behind it.

Seik brings this up a couple times and mentions how it just provokes discussion going nowhere, Seik’s reads are clearly getting stronger and more confident.

another thing about the Glyph vs. BSL thing...
Glyph calls out BSL for making a joke post, WHEN THAT IS ALL HE HAS BEEN DOING.
if glyph isn't scum, i will shoot myself.

That… is a really strong stance on Glyph O_O

@J
I'm willing to admit that a lot of my thoughts on Jscum relies on GLG's case on you. I'd like to see his responses to your defence.
'kay, so the Glyph/J exchange. As I said, you were null for me at that point. I didn't like the question you asked to KevinM about whether he'd be willing to be shot by a vig but eh. Minor thing.
I've expressed my dislike for this post.
I know how you feel about me/JTB now, but what was your thought process at the time? Were you thinking anything besides "this is interesting"? Surely you got /something/ out of it? And if not, why did you feel the need to comment on it?
Read your response for the second paragraph. 'Kay, anti-town but not scummy. I believe you.
What is wrong with you getting more attention? You're a lynch candidate, it's exactly what you should be getting. You're suggesting I should get side-tracked and pay less attention to you? Not buying it.
Stuff like this bugs me. and you do it a lot. I appreciate a lot of the time you're just joking around, but why would you deliberately just bring WifoM to the table?
A lot of it is minor things that crop up often. You seem completely unbothered about the case on you and defending yourself.
Belittling players. I'm fine with disagreeing with players, and saying they're wrong. But what does this gain you as town?
Commenting on things being interesting.
Not looking for the quotes, but you're aware that you've done it a good few times. Fake contribution etc.
On the other hand, I can see the possibility that this is just your playstyle, and something you naturally do. They all look odd and scummy to me, but eh.
Could you link me to a recent game you were in that you were town, and contributed alot to?
Now I know I'm gonna get a lot of **** for basically dropping my obvscum read on J.
My reasoning is the following:
I know I'm a tunnelly, stubborn wall. In Dissidia I felt RoxPSI was obvscum at one point and focused on them. In time I didn't feel so confident but I stuck to that obvscum read. Long story short, they got lynched and flipped town. It's a weakness of mine and I need to work on it. I'm not saying I see J as town now, but I'm willing to actually listen now.
I liked his defence on GLG's case. Looking to see a response from GLG.
J's case on Asdioh. I had a strong read on Asdioh, but the case is making me question it. If he can make me question my stances, he must be doing something right.
I'm a sucker for AtE.

This is Seik’s case on J. After making his case he finds J not to be obvscum which I know from experience (Rusty Guillotine) is not an easy thing to do, but it seems like a genuine change of heart. ALTHOUGH I don’t like that he called out Soup for “falling victim to J’s AtE” earlier and now admits he’s a sucker for AtE himself ><

actually, i didn't even really think about voting BSL until re-reading and that whole glyph thing.
well..i haven't played much games with you, and you probably alot a ton different then BSL so yeah.
An aposl lynch is something i can really see happening, he's not helping either, either we lynch aposl or the vigil kills him, either way.

Really wondering why Soup was really insistent there was a vig this game. Random thought really, this is a really long reread and my mind is wandering :o

3 for Asdioh
3 for J
3 for Aposl
we choose out of these three.

This is funny in retrospect because Soup is trying to limit the lynch pool to these three people, but JTB ends up being the lynch for the Day.

Rusty Guillotine

#20 Interesting
#169 "I know I have called some people dumb, however if you wanna play mafia in today's world, that is how you have to play."
#178 Interesting
#226 Interesting x2
:/ Use of interesting a lot as town. Justification for belittling play at times.
Things are looking better for you J.

Seikend clearly read at least some of RG to get background on J, + town points for effort to read up on J.

To be honest Asdioh, I don't remember the case on you very well. But I'm sure it was good.
Just getting my thoughts on J clear in my head first before I look at you. I promise I'll look properly before I consider voting you.

Meh don’t like this stance on Asdioh, its kind of keeping him open as an option if his current scum pick, being J, doesn’t work out.

one of my problems right here, you're not acting like asdioh town at all...i miss asdioh town, he was cool. ;_;
anyways, i'm willing to go with you being vigged, or lynched, but the thing is..who do we lynch, and who do we vig?
thinking about it, it doesn't matter anyways.

Still curious as to why the assumptions about there being a vig? ><
TDW/Soup convo:

Spoiler

*sigh*
@Soup, who are Asdioh's buddies?

i'd like to think that they are people we are focusing on right now, but perhaps i'm being naive, i was thinking JTB or Seikend due to that whole escapade, and the previous posts.
what are you sighing about, i haven't done anything. ;(

Soup/J convo about Asdioh:

Spoiler

if someone can convince me asdio as scum i can happily vote him too.

(noted i have a scum read on him, i just prefer and aposl lynch, haters gonna hate.)

Oh Soupa stick around buddy, the night is young and i have a post on the way. Then can you vote Asdioh?

For me?

damn good points J, Asdioh, please show me where you are using your aggresive playstyle, and show me how you used it, and who on.
i want to see who you have been agressive to, also.
also, don't give me NOW scum-picks, give me your BEFORE scum-picks, after i respond to that post, then give me your now scum-picks.
i agree with J, ISO's are not my strong point, i've said this, please don't ask me to iso, i really prefer when people ask me questions, and it really sucks when i skim the thread and i'm not mentioned because i'm really willing to answer at any time.

He then questions Asdioh a bit and votes Asdioh. Quite a bit of pull from J in that decision though.
Now Seik on Asdioh, which is also influenced by J, although in a less direct way:

To explain the bolded, remember J's long post with his defence and case on Asdioh? I found the Asdioh case compelling and I posted saying so. But at time I was looking at J. I was waiting for the defence, which I see is posted now.
And that's the reason I haven't taken a stance on J/Asdioh yet. I've been waiting for J's response for a while. It's here now. Gonna read it, take a stance on J, then I'll look at Asdioh.

:/.
Your read is just based on stuff that early in the day? You have J as town whilst he has been the main force behind pushing a J lynch, you have Aposl as scum whilst he's been adamantly against it. Everything more recently has been null to you?
Don't like smarg's scumlist. Avoids most of the recent conflicts and bandwagons (JTB, Asdioh) and pins mostly inactives as scum.
I'm fine with J. Read the defence, a lot of my gripes check out as just J playstyle. Town. Sorry for my major tunneling earlier.
Reading the cases on Asdioh now.

The bolded part sounds a bit like a cop out, - town points.
Interactions over Soup putting Asdioh at L-1 and especially the fact that Soup didn’t unvote:

Spoiler

Hi Soup.
Why did you put Asdioh at L-1? Stating you see him as scummy is cool, putting him in hammer range isn't so cool. If it was accidental, why didn't you unvote?

Accidental with a side of purpose.
it was at 3 according to the last mod votecount.

I'm fine with the vote being accidental. Why didn't you unvote though?

i just said it, i thought it was 3 according to the last mod votecount.
i re-read however and saw you guys voted, and i knew people would un-vote anyways.

Something feels off about this line and saying you guys wold unvote and taking responsibility off himself.

Someone I trust be online please ;_; Got ideas I want to discuss.

/appears out of the abyss.
@Seikend, clarify what you mean on the Soup question. He voted Asdioh having the intention of putting him at L-1, why would you expect him to unvote afterwards?

Lol, I should probably read the thread b4 making assumptions.
@Soup, I don't but you didn't know you were putting him at L-1 without knowing you even say it was "accidental with a side of purpose."
IE, you know what you were doing. I don't know how I feel about you trying to play that off.

@Soup You knew people would unvote. But why couldn't you do it yourself?

I voted.
i had to leave, i was tired.
i come back today, and i see people unvoting.

problem solved? problem solved.

@Asdioh, you have plenty of town reads, but only one main scum one. Who are your other picks and why?
@Seik, You are focusing too hard on this specific unvoting incident. What's your read on Soup? Besides this voting incident, which is pretty null, his play reminds me of the same townSoup from Dissidia. That vig/lynch post was obvtownSoup, unfortunately.

I find it kinda strange that from that incident TDW ends up finding Soup obvtown and attempts to shut down Seik on it…

The voting incident isn't null for me. The vote to L-1 could have been accidental, yes. His reasoning for the vote and not unvoting however, doesn't impress me at all.
Null disregarding the voting incident, scum including it.

After this there is some pro-town discussion by both of them, Soup questioning Asdioh and Seikend giving his reads and clarifying them.
Summarizing again because Day 1 is hella long, Seikend at first questions Nabe wanting Asdioh to claim then decides he is right and agrees with Asdioh claiming. Both Seik and Soup go back and forth on the Asdioh claim, sort of keeping him in the background which seems fine because both seemed confused about the conditions of his claim and whether he had purely town motives.
Now some scummy posts from Seikend (during this time I’m finding mostly pro-town things from Soup):

Spoiler

I know PRS can be reluctant too though.
I explicitly state that Town PR and scum are both reasonable possibilities.
Can't answer the first question. I didn't have an issue with Smarg earlygame. I think it was Kev, Glyph and maybe GLG that did. Smarg didn't really look scummy for me until she posted her stances. It all went downhill for me from there.
I read what Kev says. I look and see if what he says is true. If it is, I keep digging.
Eh. I would like J here for D1 but I understand if he isn't.

I think everyone should list their lynch picks for toDay now. Don't want to risk a No Lynch.
Personally I'd prefer Asdioh>JTB>Myself>No Lynch.
Glyph and J are possibilities if anyone can point to solid connections we get for town and scum flips.

Not sure why he has himself in his own lynch pool so early in the game, right behind Asdioh and JTB but not J who was very much a suspect at the time.
However, Seikend is very easily swayed by Glyph and his post about connections, to which his town read on J gets iffy and votes J. He also says:

Spoiler

If J flips scum
Look at TDW and Nabe.

TDW coming out of the woodwork when they saw the J wagon might stop, and just now when it might have started again. Only time they've really pushed for a lynch.
Doesn't look good to me.

I'm not calling you out on protecting J.
I'm calling you out on ONLY protecting J today. Nothing else you've done today is memorable for me. You've been inactive all Day, and then you jump out now.

That would be pretty early to call out the other scum buddy if Seik was their third.
Furthermore, Seikend changes his mind right after JTB claims that he is VT and Contestant, something that I picked up on a while ago and talked about a bit but he then opens himself up to J scum even more and gets caught in the battle between J watcher v. J scum and what to do about it.
The next Day Seik spends a lot of time addressing Soup and his claims about J clearly being roleblocked. Day 1 was definitely the shakiest for Seik but after that he got a lot better. I’m going to focus on Soup for the rest of this thing.
Okay this is really important, Soup says:

well, since we got some roles out already, i thought i would step and do some role bossing.
Doc: protect J/yourself.
Watcher: Watch Smarg/yourself.
Vigil: don't freaking shoot.
however, there is that slight chance of a roleblocker, so this might all fall to ****.
also i don't any other roles so i'm just grabbing for thin air.

Now he switches to:

Neither will die.
Smarg will be on J (doccing him)
J will watch smarg (meaning he will see anyone who tries to NKill Smarg.)
IT'S
FULLPROOF.

And this:

i'm not 100%, in fact, i just want J to survive this day, that's it.
If J survives, and you die, as town, i'm sure people will be on J.
if you survive, and J dies as town, i will get at that arse faster then you can say ****.
If J survive, and you die, as scum, people might erase that thought of Jscum, but not entirely, and i will deduct reasoning for connections.
If you survive, and J dies as scum, i will still be on that arse, because i have connections, or i will make them.

Then the next Day after Smarg is killed and Seik confronts Soup about his constant assertions that there is a roleblocker:

didn't adress the fact there was a roleblocker, or, i didn't assume it, but it does confirm J as watcher though, he was indeed role-blocked.
and also, Smarg died, but as i said, J WAS ROLEBLOCKED.
he didn't see who visited him, and like i said (lol) he was role-blocked, however, he's just gonna keep getting role-blocked, so we have to either hit role-blocker toDay or i will sadly have to assume there could be a gambit in J, which i don't at this moment.

Next thing is that Soup promises an ISO of J that he decides against:

Spoiler

Sucks to be you Nabe, i'm gonna post a J ISO.

how nice of you nabe, i have been contributing.

i decided that i'm not going to post the ISO, as i've already posted enough today, so yeah.

i'm posting the ISO not just for scummy intentions, but also for town intentions, and who has talked with J or had conflicts.

i'm posting it for my own understanding, because i need to decide if my Town read stays, or i flip scum, even now as i'm posting this, and re-reading, i'm still sure of town.

/waits for nabe.

AND finally, these convos which I think are
significant between Nabe and Soup:

Spoiler

'kay, cool.

I'm town cop, unconfirmed sanity.
I have a guilty on TDW and I'd like to lynch him.

Vote: TDW
I'm wondering if my town bro Soup will join me in this.

ballsy claim Nabe, too ballsy, might asking me what your play was, or what you were trying to do? or what ARE you trying to do?

I got you to prove to me that you were town. It went well.
Get onboard the TDW wagon though, in 10 minutes or so it'll be a good place to be.

had a hunch you were doing some reaction testing, and it somewhat adds up BSL's rolefishing and whatnot, somewhat.

Nabe, what convinced you TDW was scum, or perhaps, what convinced you not to investigate J?

a part of me feels you are being legit about this, but the other part says not sure, just answer some questions for me and lemme reread and ill see if i see what you see, see.

well nabe, i was thinking about it, and..i suppose, i just have a feeling we're gonna have that **** claim again.

unvote vote TDW

investigate Asdioh for me if this day comes to a close soon.

Spoiler

Amen.

Nabe, do you believe you will be the night play, or will zen?

Upon either of your deaths is there something you would like for us to focus on later?

Also please excuse my speculation, let's say you are nked, should we trust zen, or should we suspect a gambit?

It doesn't really need discussion right now.

i just want to know your opinion on that situation, that's all.

Granted that you do or do not give me an answer, I will decide on it myself.

He is reluctant to believe Nabe's claim and the last part, where he says if Nabe does not give answer he will decide for himself sounds really scummy to me.

 

[July]

Also I admit I went from really intensive reading to pretty much giving up halfway through Day 2, sorry but I just couldn't keep reading and analyzing without going crazy and wasting too much time.

 

[Asdioh]

good job July :O

I liked this part:

had a hunch you were doing some reaction testing, and it somewhat adds up BSL's rolefishing and whatnot, somewhat.

Nabe, what convinced you TDW was scum, or perhaps, what convinced you not to investigate J?

a part of me feels you are being legit about this, but the other part says not sure, just answer some questions for me and lemme reread and ill see if i see what you see, see.

well nabe, i was thinking about it, and..i suppose, i just have a feeling we're gonna have that **** claim again.

unvote vote TDW

investigate Asdioh for me if this day comes to a close soon.

Implies J would be an obvious investigation choice, then says he wants me investigated :3