Best Players of All Time

[MaNg0]

<<<<<<<< #1

in case u were wondering



LMAOOO

 

[shadrach kabango]

1. Ken
2. M2K
3. Mango

gg no re

 

[d-boy2292]

well yeah it'd definitely be the ones covered in the documentary, the question was who was the best players of all time. it didnt ask about the current best players

 

[snex]

I mean ken is currently 100th on a popularity contest of a ranking.

and ken would trash most people on that list without breaking a sweat. did you even watch the KoC3 stream? the troll here is you sir.

 

[shadrach kabango]

i dont buy the "but how do u compare players from different eras? zomg apples and oranges." it's very easy to do that: how much better than their peers were they? indeed, imo it's the only way to do it.

also, people tend to ignore doubles. ken pwned everyone in both singles AND dubs for a looong time

m2k had a slightly lower peak than ken -- it just didnt last as long -- but much better longevity than anyone ainec. that almost made me put him no. 1. what puts ken over the top is the dubs thing. m2k's never shown such unbridled doubles dominance.

mango burned bright, too bright. too bad cuz he'd otherwise easily be no. 1.

 

[♡ⓛⓞⓥⓔ♡]

was gonna write a big post but the baby just woke up ROFL


mango mango mango mango

have you reproduced?

 

[Charlesz]

If we are talking about all time I'd go with either Mango or Ken.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

I'd say for absolute peak skill, Mango is definitely the best player of all time, but for domination over their opponents, It's Armada from Genesis 2 - Apex 2013. He literally never lost a tournament over that whole stretch, nobody else went undefeated for that long a period. 2009 Mango and 2005 Ken are close though.

also, people tend to ignore doubles. ken pwned everyone in both singles AND dubs for a looong time

M2K hasn't lost a doubles event since Genesis 2, that's about 2 and a half years. Ken and Isai's doubles winning streak lasted about 2 and a half years (according to Smashwiki). M2K's doubles streak is still going on, and he also hasn't lost singles since Evo, we'll have to wait and see how long THAT streak lasts (if he wins Apex, I think it could go all the way up to Smash 4 release, and maybe even past that).

 

[Justkallmekai]

I'd say
1. Ken
2. Mango
3.Armada
4.Mew2King

 

[MaNg0]

I think if you super go over it and research i think i make a good case for the #1 spot


my era was roughly 2 n a half years where i only dropped one set or something like that ( attending tourneys all over the nation every weekend )

Im also the only champ to ever re gain his crown and even during armadas reign i still won most american tourneys while still being pretty dominant ( cept in like 2011 where i didnt win much ) , i would just lose apex and everyone crowned armada the champ


kens era was about 2-3 years ish ( somewhere in there ) but he dropped a lot more tourneys .. butttt there were a lot more tourneys ( mlg days ) so take that how you will and ken left right as competition was starting to catch up ( same with armada but hes back so doesnt matter ) .. Ken also did all of his dominance in an era where the game was still being figured out and the meta was no where near close to being at its peak.. ( A pioneer gangster )

M2k era was like 9 months of just PWNAGE .. I think m2ks era even tho it was the shortest was prob the most dominant .. People thought he had figured out the game and with brawl about to come out were ready to give up melee .. ( till pound three happened )


armadas era was only 3 tourneys ( still very impressive coming from europe ) but at the end of the day 3 tourneys will not make you an all time kinda guy


1. me
2.ken
3.armada
4.m2k

if you go just all time skill then that can be argued many diff ways


but at the end of the day everyone will have a diff opinion

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I think people hesitate to put you at #1 because of the year you went Scorpion Master. Then there's also these newfag documentary kids who treat Ken and Isai like they're still capable of winning nationals. I'm glad that Armada is coming out or retirement so that we can see a rematch of Mang0 vs. Armada and M2K vs. Armada.

 

[MaNg0]

" if ken and isai came back man things would sure be different ! "

 

[Justkallmekai]

" if ken and isai came back man things would sure be different ! "

I'd like to see that, but sadly the chance of the happening are so low, it seems that Ken is burnt out, and Isai just loves smash 64. If only.

 

[Punch_the_Duck]

I'd say
1. Ken
2. Mango
3.Armada
4.Mew2King

I'm sorry, When Mango gets serious, he just can't be matched. And no disrespect to Ken but the game has evolved so much that even in his prime I don't think he could stand up to some of the techniques of modern players. Taking everything into account, my list is as follows:
1. Mango
2. Armada
3. Mew2King
4. Ken

 

[Zoler]

Everyone knows Javi and Amsah were better than Ken back in the day anyway.

Amsah wasn't the best in EU back then. Are you thinking of Ek?

 

[smashbroskilla]

I think people hesitate to put you at #1 because of the year you went Scorpion Master. Then there's also these new*** documentary kids who treat Ken and Isai like they're still capable of winning nationals. So what's apex? A tournament being held in a barn?

Did you even watch apex 2014?

Super Smash Brothers 1v1 Results
Est. Pot Size: $1,500 (includes $200 bonus)
1. CT | Isai (Jigglypuff)2. Moyashi (Kirby, Pikachu)
3. SuPeRbOoMfAn (Captain Falcon, Fox, Pikachu, Kirby)
4. Mariguas (Pikachu, Captain Falcon)
5. tacos (Yoshi, Captain Falcon)
5. CT | Wizzrobe (Yoshi)
7. Ruoka Danchon (Captain Falcon, Kirby)
7. JaimeHR (Fox, Captain Falcon)

I'm pretty sure the same guy winning apex 2014 in the only smash he plays qualifies as something to talk about.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Did you even watch apex 2014?

Super Smash Brothers 1v1 Results
Est. Pot Size: $1,500 (includes $200 bonus)
1. CT | Isai (Jigglypuff)2. Moyashi (Kirby, Pikachu)
3. SuPeRbOoMfAn (Captain Falcon, Fox, Pikachu, Kirby)
4. Mariguas (Pikachu, Captain Falcon)
5. tacos (Yoshi, Captain Falcon)
5. CT | Wizzrobe (Yoshi)
7. Ruoka Danchon (Captain Falcon, Kirby)
7. JaimeHR (Fox, Captain Falcon)

I'm pretty sure the same guy winning apex 2014 in the only smash he plays qualifies as something to talk about.

I know Isai is still Jesus in 64. I'm strictly talking about melee (We are in melee discussion hurr durr)

 

[smashbroskilla]

I know Isai is still Jesus in 64. I'm strictly talking about melee (We are in melee discussion hurr durr)

You can't blame people for associating him with being one of the best due to the doc. He doesn't play melee though. It depends on how the question is answered as well. It can be answered several different ways. Maybe some people from back in the day watched him and still thinks he's the best. It doesn't necessarily mean they only know of him through the doc.

 

[Justkallmekai]

I'm sorry, When Mango gets serious, he just can't be matched. And no disrespect to Ken but the game has evolved so much that even in his prime I don't think he could stand up to some of the techniques of modern players. Taking everything into account, my list is as follows:
1. Mango
2. Armada
3. Mew2King
4. Ken

True actually I was going off my favorites, probably should have changed it, but you're right I agree with your list.

 

[Deleted member]

I really can't say who's the best.

Probably Ralph Macchio. I've seen him beat Johnny in tournament once, no one can match his skill.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

You can't blame people for associating him with being one of the best due to the doc. He doesn't play melee though. It depends on how the question is answered as well. It can be answered several different ways. Maybe some people from back in the day watched him and still thinks he's the best. It doesn't necessarily mean they only know of him through the doc.

I'm fully aware that he doesn't play melee anymore. My statement was directed at the recent resurgence we've had on the boards. Tons of 2013-2014 accounts have posted various times (this thread is an example) saying dumb stuff like "ken and isai would be the best for sure if they didn't quit/actually try" when in reality, it would be highly unlikely. Especially with how both Marth and Falcon have become increasingly less prominent in the metagame.

 

[itsbme]

I'll just say Ken, for his era anyway. Pretty much he was the only one back in 2005 who could play this game well.

Also, if my opinion matters, nothing has changed really. Top players make up like 10% that are good, the rest not so much and get owned by a player retired for 5 years.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

At any rate, I see the merit at including doubles and singles into this list. A person who just plays singles and plays 1st all the time I think is not a "better player" than the person who plays doubles and singles coming in 2nd-3rd place all the time. Mainly because that person would be demonstrating prowess in multiple aspects of melee and not simply a single category by itself.

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

1. mango
2. ken
3. armada
4. m2k
5. pc
6. pp
7. azen
8. hbox
9. chu
10. kdj
11. isai

Is what I've been goin with lately for GOAT lists. These 11 are clearly a step above the rest imo.

[singles only]

 

[The Real Gamer]

I'm still convinced that in terms of absolute peak play I highly doubt there's anyone from any era that would have been able to beat Mango's Evo 2013 Fox.

He made everyone he faced in top 8 (PP, Armada, Hungrybox, Wobbles) look silly.

 

[Zoler]

I'm fully aware that he doesn't play melee anymore. My statement was directed at the recent resurgence we've had on the boards. Tons of 2013-2014 accounts have posted various times (this thread is an example) saying dumb stuff like "ken and isai would be the best for sure if they didn't quit/actually try" when in reality, it would be highly unlikely. Especially with how both Marth and Falcon have become increasingly less prominent in the metagame.

Marth is still the third best character in the game.

 

[Dr Peepee]

1. mango
2. ken
3. armada
4. m2k
5. pc
6. pp
7. azen
8. hbox
9. chu
10. kdj
11. isai

Is what I've been goin with lately for GOAT lists. These 11 are clearly a step above the rest imo.

[singles only]

never thought of trying to extend it beyond the typical ones mentioned here.

cool thought exercise, thanks for posting =)

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

Marth is still the third best character in the game.

I wasn't implying that he's bad. I was mostly referencing the lack of marths in top level play. The only marths I'd bet money on making bracket at nationals are PPU and The Moon currently (obviously M2k, but he's not a marth main). He's 4th best in the game btw

 

[Zoler]

I wasn't implying that he's bad. I was mostly referencing the lack of marths in top level play. The only marths I'd bet money on making bracket at nationals are PPU and The Moon currently (obviously M2k, but he's not a marth main). He's 4th best in the game btw

I think many Marths just focus on spacies and neglect the other matchups. This works for a lot of other characters since they can play similiar in many matchups while Marth has to play really really different in other matchups than spacies. PP does really well in the rest of the matchups, I think every marth player should just copy him to get better in most matchups (that aren't spacies).

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

I think many Marths just focus on spacies and neglect the other matchups. This works for a lot of other characters since they can play similiar in many matchups while Marth has to play really really different in other matchups than spacies. PP does really well in the rest of the matchups, I think every marth player should just copy him to get better in most matchups (that aren't spacies).

Definitely agree. Many of his matchups have been unexplored/updated for the current metagame. I don't think I've seen any Marth do well vs. a good falcon since Strawhat Dahean beat Darkrain at Pound4. Kinda funny that most of the top marths don't even main him.

 

[choknater]

i like blur's list

it shows that he is the greatest ken fan

but also it's pretty accurate

 

[Mr P]

Amsah wasn't the best in EU back then. Are you thinking of Ek?

Not really, EK was EU number one only about one year between ROS2 and ROS3 which was summer 2005 to summer 2006. Before EK remen was the best and it was Amsah who took EK's crown at ROS3 which he held onto until early 2009 when Armada took over.

 

[Engo]

I think Chu should be in the top 8 in greatest of all times. At least. Top 3 in the country for years, very consistent results, creator of his character's meta and freaking excellent fundamentals. The guy doesn't practice nor take the game seriously but he's still a strong tournament threat over half a decade later. He's one of the few in the past few years that has taken sets off 2 top 5 players(Hbox at Zenith 2012 Mew2king at Bar Wars in 2013) and this isn't even his prime. He really hasn't changed his style at all but his fundamentals are just that good. Dude's a legend.

Also, what was M2K's era? I know people say 2007 but he didn't win everything that year(namely Pound 2, Oc3, EVO, and some others) so what do people mean when they talk about his "era"?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm the best player in my dreams.

In reality, I think the best players are Mango, M2K, Dr.PP,and HBox. Each of them of are great players of their time.

Honorable Mentions include: ChuDat, Chillndude, Lucky, Silent Wolf, Shroomed, Leffen, 2004 Isai, 2004 Ken, PC Chris MLG Era, KDJ MLG Era, ShizDaWiz, SS, Zhu, and Armada.

 

[Habefiet]

I'm the best player in my dreams.

In reality, I think the best players are Mango, M2K, Dr.PP,and HBox. Each of them of are great players of their time.

Honorable Mentions include: ChuDat, Chillndude, Lucky, Silent Wolf, Shroomed, Leffen, 2004 Isai, 2004 Ken, PC Chris MLG Era, KDJ MLG Era, ShizDaWiz, SS, Zhu, and Armada.

I am continually astonished that anyone purporting to be a sentient human being could put players like PP and Hungrybox on a best-of-all-time list and not put Armada on at least their same level

Dude literally won every tournament he entered which included three American supermajors for two ****ing years and has a positive W/L on M2K/PP/HBox and a neutral one w/ Mango. I'm fans of all those dudes but like take HBox that guy has won a single supermajor ever IIRC (Apex 2010) and that was sans tryhard Mango and to put him above Armada is something that even HBox doesn't do.

Like I usually try not to actively be a jackass but you literally just put Armada on the same tier of player as Chillin

 

[Deleted member]

I am continually astonished that anyone purporting to be a sentient human being could put players like PP and Hungrybox on a best-of-all-time list and not put Armada on at least their same level

Dude literally won every tournament he entered which included three American supermajors for two ****ing years and has a positive W/L on M2K/PP/HBox and a neutral one w/ Mango. I'm fans of all those dudes but like take HBox that guy has won a single supermajor ever IIRC (Apex 2010) and that was sans tryhard Mango and to put him above Armada is something that even HBox doesn't do.

Like I usually try not to actively be a ******* but you literally just put Armada on the same tier of player as Chillin

Really haven't seen Armada play much, but yeah it was dumb of me not to put him up there.

 

[Engo]

that's what you call the epitome of a stream monster/ documentary kid

 

[narizard]

I'm fully aware that he doesn't play melee anymore. My statement was directed at the recent resurgence we've had on the boards. Tons of 2013-2014 accounts have posted various times (this thread is an example) saying dumb stuff like "ken and isai would be the best for sure if they didn't quit/actually try" when in reality, it would be highly unlikely. Especially with how both Marth and Falcon have become increasingly less prominent in the metagame.

The term 'metagame' refers to using outside source information to coin the best way to, which in this case is to fight a current match-up you're about to face, take on the task at hand. Metagaming could refer to how one plays against a certain character using their own, but it doesn't necessarily make it the most popular choice. One might find it easier to use Falco against a Falcon just because you can laser to stop his progression, but another person might be very good at spacing with say, luigi's high priority aerials and that outside knowledge can lead him to decide that Luigi is his optimal choice. Has nothing to do with "These are the most popular characters played so here's your metagame.'

Anyway, saying it's highly unlikely that they could be the best is as ignorant as people saying that it's a fact that they would be. Maybe they would be considered average now or maybe they would of come up with new play styles to their respective characters. Perhaps even drop them as a whole and pick up new characters. No one knows. Maybe Ken would've decided to play Roy and effectively use him at a professional level. Who the heck knows. All I know is neither you, nor the 'tons of 2013-2014 accounts' know what their skill level would be had they kept playing. Hell, Ken is still well above average. Way out of practice, but coming back after years of missed competitive experience he placed 49th out of 696 people at EVO last year. Imagine the refined skill someone could learn in that time had he continued. Granted he might reach a point where he can't get better that other people exceed, but don't say it's unlikely that he or Isai could've continued to be some of the best players to date.

 

[-ShadowPhoenix-]

The term 'metagame' refers to using outside source information to coin the best way to, which in this case is to fight a current match-up you're about to face, take on the task at hand. Metagaming could refer to how one plays against a certain character using their own, but it doesn't necessarily make it the most popular choice. One might find it easier to use Falco against a Falcon just because you can laser to stop his progression, but another person might be very good at spacing with say, luigi's high priority aerials and that outside knowledge can lead him to decide that Luigi is his optimal choice. Has nothing to do with "These are the most popular characters played so here's your metagame.'

Anyway, saying it's highly unlikely that they could be the best is as ignorant as people saying that it's a fact that they would be. Maybe they would be considered average now or maybe they would of come up with new play styles to their respective characters. Perhaps even drop them as a whole and pick up new characters. No one knows. Maybe Ken would've decided to play Roy and effectively use him at a professional level. Who the heck knows. All I know is neither you, nor the 'tons of 2013-2014 accounts' know what their skill level would be had they kept playing. Hell, Ken is still well above average. Way out of practice, but coming back after years of missed competitive experience he placed 49th out of 696 people at EVO last year. Imagine the refined skill someone could learn in that time had he continued. Granted he might reach a point where he can't get better that other people exceed, but don't say it's unlikely that he or Isai could've continued to be some of the best players to date.

It has nothing to do with popularity. Falcon is as popular as ever. It's about how Falcon, and to a lesser extent Marth, have become less viable in tip top tournament play mostly due to the fact of the evolution of how space animals are played.

I didn't say it couldn't happen. I said it was unlikely.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

this thread is really hard to read with a straight face

top players of all time in terms of raw skill are

1. isai
2. mango
3. armada
4. m2k
5. pp

isai is #1 because I've never been to a tournament but I watched the documentary and they said he could beat anyone if he tried so that means he could beat everyone today. He is the best and I would su-

the rest are just the miom top 4. I call this list the isai>miom top 100>hbox>everyone else theory. miom top 100 is objective and while I don't know any of the players past the top 5 I can safely say I trust it 100%. I took HBox off the list because I read somewhere in a youtube comment that his bairs were gay.

and to anyone saying something with teh documentary was wrong. consider this. it also had right things. i just refuted your argument!