See that's cute. As though my vulgarity demeans the merit of my post. I asked Holy whos better, Stroum or Minus, a day or so after the update, I mentioned you brought up the comparison. You know what he told me? "I've played both, though it HAS been a while. I'd say Minus though."
Infact, the ONLY character he firmly disagreed with me on was my opinion that Culex was top falcon. But that's understandable. I mean, he doesn't travel as much as you, or have a great concept of how the game works, amirite?
page before:
Yes. Thats exactly what you're saying. Infact, I would even be douchey enough to misconstrue that statement as your top 3 could walk our entire PR.
The other issue Sword, is your extreme elitism. What we call SDI, could be different from what you call SDI. It's no different from me referring to a move that launches an opponent downwards as a spike, as opposed to someone else who refers to it as a takedown, or a meteor-smash. What we describe is the same thing with different names, but immediately your brain registers this as "No you're stupid, you're using that word wrong, because I use it in a different context. Hence you don't know what you're talking about."
And that elitism is most certainly the product of a superiority complex. When and if things aren't presented to you in the exact manner you expect them to be presented to you, they must be incorrect or inferior. Take our conversation for example, concerning the japanese play style.
The first thing you noticed was their DI and SDI, and how spot on it was. The first thing I noticed was the lack of diversity in the moveset, and the stagnation that would likely cause in their metagame. Considering their tier list consists of the scrub list I made when the game first came out, I don't think I'm far off. And I'm far less impressed by their technical skill. In a game like brawl, intelligence and mindgames make the player, not tech skill. But, in your facet of thought, likely given that you play a main that requires more techskill than intelligence and mindgames (Tell me i'm wrong about a character that can kill every character in the cast within one grab if the combo as it were is memorized and perfected.) this makes sense, but it does not make it the correct train of thought. And yet you repeatedly asked me to examine the match, as though one would talk to an innocent child unaware of the obvious mistake he's made in not seeing the same thing you did.
Bro. You are alot more uneducated about brawl than I think you realize. And it's utterly naive to claim you know our scene well enough from one experience against them. You play your quebec players, and we play our ontario players. You can't cry foul and bias that we would be more familiar with ours and nominate them, when you infact do the VERY SAME THING. That my silly silly christian missionary. Is hypocrisy.
Oh right. **** **** **** **** PISS ****. There, i swore, and you didn't. Does that make your point more valid than mine? In the world of Swordgard, it would seem so.
If he does not firmly disagree, it might mean holy is not 100% sure himself. Once again, not saying KKong>Phiddlesticks or that Mar1>Culex, I am saying they are equally eligible for the spots.
Now if you want to argue about whos top 3 is better, I can tell you Montreal south shore takes the cake. Simple as it is , we have ally me and holy. Let us first agree on the fact that ally is untouchable. From the start our #1 beats your number 1 2 and 3. For now let us assume I am number 2(holys gonna bug me for this XD), I can tell you I can take out joe fairly easily at a tourney(he lost to raidos >.<, don't take it bad joe its just you have way too much trouble vs ics). Holy placed consistently 1st or 2nd at your scene going about even with kingace outplacing doc everytime and beating TO joe too. For now, let us assume that silverdoc dramatically(which he did), I would say that I am about on his level, he has yet to take off any set from holy/ally, but I'm sure that the lack of occasions to prove his newfound skills is more the problem than anything. So it would go something like this:
Ally> TO joe, silverdoc, kingace
Swordgard ~= Silverdoc, beats TO Joe, unknown with kingace.
Holynightmare ~= Kingace, beats to joe, unknown with silverdoc.
Fact is, only be allys presence it reinforce our top 3 position by a lot since you won't be able to claim to have the best player, and the rest of our top 3 is roughly equivalent to your top 2.
Would our top 3 walk over your PR? Holy did not drop a set to anyone from GTA save kingace in a long time, with very few people coming even near(I mean near to the point when he had to rely on planking >.>). Ally would definitely walk over your PR, not questions asked, plain ****. Finally, the only one left is me. Walk over your PR, maybe, maybe not. I did not drop a single set to all the PR members I played at SBaN, but that does not mean I would necessarly walk over your PR. Only time will tell.
So yes, our top 3 beats yours(thanks to ally, he is however a part of quebec). Yes our top 3 would probably walk over the rest of your PR, just like your top 3 would probably walk over a lot of our PR. On the other hand, we have many more people who came close to beating holy in a tourney set, for example negga taking 1st match off holy due to a magnificient double barrel spike, winning until last stock on the last match. Holy had to plank dom cause he was losing, and Dom did not knew how to counter the technique properly. First time I ever saw holy ever plank(I was proud of him
), he came back with a gimp then continued to plank. But that is not the problem here, I did not claim that our top 3 would walk over your PR before now and you just threatened to strawman me, which is really er... wrong? You don't threaten to do logical fallacies >.>. You already strawmanned me when you said that I wanted mar1 to have the spot instead of Culex, which is not what I said at all. I said that mar1 deserved to be at least and OR with Culex,
I said your average player is better, but it is not much better. I would say that currently both provinces are about equal in strength since the lower end of your PR is probably stronger than ours.
Now let us move on to the next point:
The other issue Sword, is your extreme elitism. What we call SDI, could be different from what you call SDI.
My elitism? I wish you could define that. If its the way I tend to give advice to everyone, its not because I believe I am necessarily better, its so others can improve, please do not mistake the two. If someone has a counter argument to when I explain to them why they should for example DI in a specific manner, I let them explain it. I am open to any debate, as debating in a proper manner leads to knowledge. As to my knowledge, there never was any alternate definition of SDI, SDI and DI are simply really different. To quote another Quebec smasher: "Its like comparing a hand and an arm". The two are simply very different, if you do not see the difference I will gladly explain it to you, just hit me up on msn. You are not the only one to confuse the two, except that in montreal I took the time to explain it to everyone who had doubts. What you were explaining was simply good DI but when you come saying to me it involved DI and SDI, I am going to stop you right there because it does not. Ask any melee player, even they have the exact same convention on the terminology for this(except slightly different mechanics on ASDI involving C-stick which lead to the technique of double sticking).
Now, let us move on to
"When and if things aren't presented to you in the exact manner you expect them to be presented to you, they must be incorrect or inferior. Take our conversation for example, concerning the japanese play style.
The first thing you noticed was their DI and SDI, and how spot on it was. The first thing I noticed was the lack of diversity in the moveset, and the stagnation that would likely cause in their metagame. Considering their tier list consists of the scrub list I made when the game first came out, I don't think I'm far off. And I'm far less impressed by their technical skill. In a game like brawl, intelligence and mindgames make the player, not tech skill. But, in your facet of thought, likely given that you play a main that requires more techskill than intelligence and mindgames (Tell me i'm wrong about a character that can kill every character in the cast within one grab if the combo as it were is memorized and perfected.) this makes sense, but it does not make it the correct train of thought. And yet you repeatedly asked me to examine the match, as though one would talk to an innocent child unaware of the obvious mistake he's made in not seeing the same thing you did."
From the way you were talking about SDI, it really was clear you did not understand how it is applied since you called DI as SDI, which means you must not know what SDI is since there is no other word for it, but that is besides the point. Here, you clearly noted and I quote
"The first thing I noticed was the lack of diversity in the moveset, and the stagnation that would likely cause in their metagame."
just after that I wrote how on the spot their DI and SDI was. Its a cause consequence link, of course they have a more limited moveset, most of their move are rendered unviable through SDI. Of course with there you can mindgame a lot less. Its just like instead of having 24 moves, you had 10. No matter how much you mindgame the other 14, they can punish them on reaction without mistakes during the move due to SDI, which makes them unviable even if they are mindgamed into. I would agree that NA has better yomi skills(mindgames/mind reading abilities), but the point is we could learn how to SDI from them.
I can tell you you are completely wrong about my facet of thought. I am one of the few smashers pushing for not only perfect yomi (to the point where I have a list of all the most common patterns somewhere lying around), knowledge(which gives you a huge advantage in many matches), and execution(spacing, tech skill, SDI, etc). Nope, I do not value tech skill above intelligence, for a fact I do realize that my main is seen as a character that requires very little intelligence despite the fact that there are plenty of people who mains them and can cg 0 to death but will not place top at tourneys. As ice climber players, I realized some characters have the tools to almost never get grabbed, and that when they did get grabbed it was often an execution mistake. In order to get the grabs, I needed knowledge about what move beats which, what are every single options in the game but also I needed prediction skills. Now also comes Nana's horrendous AI, I had to do research on that to gain more knowledge about it. I am pushing for perfection in all 3 of them, yomi is very important and I will certainly not disagree there, but true mind reading only happens at very high level. If some players have some "flash" that goes on through their head before another does his move, that is yomi, but from what I could see, in a tourney Ally seems to be able to permanently achieve this(which is impressive when you play him and he is trying).
Also at this
"And yet you repeatedly asked me to examine the match, as though one would talk to an innocent child unaware of the obvious mistake he's made in not seeing the same thing you did."
I did this cause I wanted you to find it, find the reason why they "seem" so bad. I know for a fact that people retain a lot more what they can find on their own than if explained to them. My bad I guess.
Then
"Bro. You are alot more uneducated about brawl than I think you realize. And it's utterly naive to claim you know our scene well enough from one experience against them. You play your quebec players, and we play our ontario players. You can't cry foul and bias that we would be more familiar with ours and nominate them, when you infact do the VERY SAME THING. That my silly silly christian missionary. Is hypocrisy."
Yup, which explains all of my bad placings, my ability to pick up a character and be able to bring most top players down with them(fox
) using this character I trained for a week. In terms of yomi, it is hard to put yomi on paper but so far I can say that I have been able to do it well enough so that I can call out on what people describes as flash of what the other would do before he does it, and call out on what was the pattern they could not pinpoint themselves and tell them how to make the punishment even stronger(it is much easier to prepare a better punishment when you know exactly what the pattern is since you don't have to wait for these flashes to happen). In terms of knowledge mechanics, I am consistently trying to learn more about the game, TBH I doubt there are many people on the forums who understand the game more than me in terms of mechanics/matchups.
I call foul and bias on the fact not that you nominate your players, but that in almost every single debate between 2 players, the GTA player was favored due to merely his region. Kingkong has the exact same credentials as phiddlesticks, not a single doubt there. I would call bias on myself if I was to ask for Kingkong to be put definitely above phiddlesticks, or if I was to ask for stroumbert to be above minus. You said it yourself, you play your players, I play the ones in montreal. I am not asking for Quebec having all of these disputed spots, I just wish that the spot did not automatically go to GTA when two players have similar placings. Just put it as an either.
"Oh right. **** **** **** **** PISS ****. There, i swore, and you didn't. Does that make your point more valid than mine? In the world of Swordgard, it would seem so"
Nope, but it really does show how emotional you can get over a subject, and these emotions can easily cloud your judgment. And in the real world, yes, your arguments will be rejected by people if it contains such swearing because they will not take you seriously.
EDIT: Marik your post made me lol because I consider you as a troll often, but wow, I guess your gonna be frustrated by my answer to Iliad and just call BS . That post just cost me an hour of studying XD, be back later.
