Being a smash Sensei

[Yo$himan]

So recently I came across a group of 5 or 6 smashers in my area that are fairly new to the game and I have bravely decided it was my duty to help them get better. I completely understand all aspects about melee, but I'm unsure what order to teach them. Has anyone made a article about teaching smash that I could use as a guide?

Better yet, should I traverse these waters and do experiments on my students? I could then write my own article for everyone else to use.

Anyway, it would be easier if someone has already done this.

 

[Krynxe]

>Using sensei instead of teacher/tutor

Approval

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=97603
Check out this thread, it might help you.

Edit: To add on, I usually tell new people to start with these threads and work on basic, universal tech skill like wavedashing/shffling before worrying about the metagame or anything too advanced.

 

[Yo$himan]

Well, only two of these guys are able to l-cancel and wavedash, but they don't use them consistently or correctly. I normally would just throw them into those threads but, that would just be a failure to be a teacher on my part. I need to control what they are working on and what order they do it. Otherwise they will probably waste their time practicing some techskill that they can't possibly do at their skill level. Thus wasting their time.

 

[Bing]

I am in a similar position. I have 7 people that want me to teach them. 2 Can Wavedash semi-consistently. 1 Can inconsistently. The rest cant. Im not worrying about their character choice yet simply because We all go through our characters changes and who am I to stop them
Luckily, 1 was a G&W and is now Doc. The rest are fine(A Falcon/Marth, a sheik, a Fox a Sheik and a ness[yes low tier but whatever[)

Basically Im teaching them the basics, Im starting with attacks, and what leads into what(simple combos like Forward tilt to aerial(Sheik) or upthrow upair(Fox)
With some of them(2 seperate groups, ones 4 and the others 3.
Group A) Has at "Advanced" combos <-- So like white advanced in Karate
Group B) Is shffling and l-canceling <-- Yellow belt XD

It gets kind of frustrating because I feel like its taking a forever but I just have to keep reminding myself that it took me a long time to grasp these things too(One person is actually way ahead of the others, learned wavedashing(consistently) in about 10 minutes(Samus main)

Im not the best player by far, but I can certainly get them off on the right foot.

 

[KrIsP!]

And then you have worthwhile training partners.

 

[Yo$himan]

So far all I've done is tell them to get consistent at l-canceling and wavedashing. That and I constantly punish their bad habits. I have one guy who likes to roll back and forth with mario so I just stand in place and tech chase him. Kind of mean, but he'll learn eventually.

 

[KrIsP!]

I think the piccolo method is much more effective than the mr.miyagi routine.

 

[zZz]

Being a person who is relatively new to Melee, I must agree that you punishing his rolls in that manner is a great way to teach him when not to roll. IHSB had to do this to me for a month or so until I understood what was going on. In short keep punishing there mistakes and explain to them what is going on while you're doing it. After 1 year of smashing I now stand a fighting chance against most of our Memphis community.

 

[DerfMidWest]

how i learned to stop rolling back and forth:
My friend used puff and rested me everytime I rolled.

that will get him to stop really fast.

 

[Bing]

The thing you're forgetting is that you also want to give them so sort of mu experience. So I use all sorts of diferent characters and punish in different ways.

 

[Massive]

I find its easier to teach someone to waveland rather than wavedash.
Once they understand how wavelanding works wavedashing is substantially easier to implement. From my experience it takes around 6 months before wavedashing is hewn into one's muscle memory enough to be used as part of a strategy.

Luckily there are easy, less technical things you can teach people that they can use in their gameplay almost immediately:

• Dashdancing: It's a very simple concept and its super easy to do once you understand the character's dash > run distance. It can greatly improve someone's gameplay and teach them valuable spacing information.
• Crouch-Cancelling: Hold down when you're going to get hit. It doesn't get much simpler than this. Your samus probably already knows this. It will save people's lives. Caveats abound vs. Peach, but that's a special case.
• Down-cancelling runs: Before they're able to move fluidly with wavedashes, this should be their bread and butter. You can implement higher level strategies using down/crouch to cancel your runs and do an immediate smash or tilt. These are often overlooked to many people's detriment as they're an easy, useful fundamental skill for everyone to be proficient at.
• Out of Shield Concepts: You can jump out of shield. You can usmash out of shield. You can grab out of shield. You can wavedash out of shield. Getting them used to doing these things, even if it's just an OoS jump > nair with sheik, will set them up for success very quickly. If they're used to doing things OoS it is will be far easier to implement more complex things like wavedash OoS when they're ready. Giving them more options than Grab OoS will help them when they run into players who know how not to be shield grabbed.
• Jump Cancelled Grabs: These are pretty easy to do as well. Just hit a jump while you're hitting Z. They are monumentally important to some low tiers (like your ness!), and they are bread-and-butter for almost every character. Just make sure you warn them about the Jigglypuff matchup.

 

[Bing]

Being honest, I still dont know how to do dash cancelled grabs properly

 

[KrIsP!]

Come on Bing step it up. Every day for the past month that I've come here and been reading posts like the ones in this thread I've felt better about my tech skill and feel like I'm getting better, then I keep reading and all that **** goes down the drain. This rollercoaster is what keeps me going. I'm not super terrible, but I'm still pretty bad from a competitive stand point, time to keep practicing.

@Massive: already knew that ****, but where were you when I didn't. I started out with some of the hardest things and just gave up years ago. Learning that stuff makes huge improvement in a short amount of time and gives newer players something useful that isn't hard to learn/implement. Definitely whats should be learned first.

 

[Bing]

That confuses me.. so me saying that I cant do dash cancelled grabs make you feel worse about your tech skill? :S

I just never even bothered to learn XD Besides I play Fox, we dont need gimmicks, we just ****.

 

[KrIsP!]

That confuses me.. so me saying that I cant do dash cancelled grabs make you feel worse about your tech skill? :S

I just never even bothered to learn XD Besides I play Fox, we dont need gimmicks, we just ****.

No just reading in melee disc. in general. Makes me feel below average.

 

[Varist]

that's because we all have huge ****s

 

[Massive]

@Massive: already knew that ****, but where were you when I didn't. I started out with some of the hardest things and just gave up years ago. Learning that stuff makes huge improvement in a short amount of time and gives newer players something useful that isn't hard to learn/implement. Definitely whats should be learned first.

I find the easiest way to teach people why we need L-cancels and wavedashes is to get them to the point where they crash into the barriers these skills allow us to bypass. They will see that they're being limited and realize the problem they have. If they have the drive to improve at this point, they will teach themselves more advanced stuff to shatter the barrier. As a smash teacher it would be your job to explain to them how to get better in this regard.

I can think of several other reasonably simple things you can teach newer people to show them substantial improvement, but a lot of them are character specific.

 

[Bing]

Sometimes to show them the important of l-canceling, I ditto them, and use the same attack that they are trying to hit me with, I just l-cancel to show that Im moving faster simply by having less lag.

 

[Bing]

No just reading in melee disc. in general. Makes me feel below average.

Dont feel below average, you're just defeating yourself.

 

[Vts]

Let me train them :D

I'm a good teacher , too good of a teacher my best student is better than me now ><

Give me like 4-5 days with them and I can train them for basics and give it 2-3 weeks of them practicing and I'll go back up there and teach them more stuff

 

[KirbyKaze]

No just reading in melee disc. in general. Makes me feel below average.

Don't you main Puff?

 

[Divinokage]

Hmm.. the way I do it is try to pinpoint what their greatest weaknesses are and grind that until that weakness disappears one at a time. In the beginning, it's more about basics, having character control. And then I move on to make them learn their bad habits.. and then once their habits aren't too bad, move on to how to DI every move and how you can avoid getting hit, also spacing. And then maybe learning to combo better, learning some advanced setups, etc. Positioning...

Well actually now that I think about it, I do this usually all at the same time. I just focus more on one part of their gameplay which needs the most work, it just depends where they are and what I see when I play them.

So far, I think the general skill level here increased this year for sure even if they don't realize it. =P Warrior training ftw. It's always fun and no one can get ever get mad. I'd say that's also very important, if your friends/opponents don't have fun when they are learning, their potential decreases A LOT. I think you also have to make sure they are enjoying the experience while they are learning.

 

[Bing]

. I'd say that's also very important, if your friends/opponents don't have fun when they are learning, their potential decreases A LOT. I think you also have to make sure they are enjoying the experience while they are learning.

I agree with this, thats why when I play against them, like actually play, I use like, Roy, or someone Im not great with, and put less effort as to not destroy them, then as they improve, I "improve" with them.

 

[N64]

I think it's also helps for some if they have an idol or idols in the smash community. I don't know if your people already have this, but the idea of "hey that looked really awesome, I want to be able to do that, how do I do that?" can be good motivation to learn more advanced tactics. This may cause them to focus on 'flashier' stuff rather than some more useful techniques, but it's at least helpful to motivate them to get better.

Just find some good matches of skilled players for the character they use, and let them watch it. Hopefully they'll get hype.

 

[Bing]

Well when I started I wanted to be like Lunin or Tang(I watched a ton of HMW stuff)
As I got more involved I decided I wanted to be like Unknown and Kirbykaze because their amazing, intelligent and "Local"

Now as for those in my community that I am training, I've been trying to show them Local stuff because when I finally met Kirbykaze, Unknown, Raynex etc. I thought it was awesome because I idolized these people and now I get to meet them. So for the Fox main I show him Unknown, Raynex etc. The Sheik gets KK.

Fun fact, because Im the only "good" person they've played, I get a lot of "I hope I can get as good as you" and I kinda laugh cause Im bad.

 

[Orko]

Ask Mooninite about being a smash sensei.

That guy basically took me from UpB-Link to shine turnaround Bair Falco.

Just saying.

 

[FoxLisk]

I completely understand all aspects about melee, but I'm unsure what order to teach them.

Better yet, should I traverse these waters and do experiments on my students?

I normally would just throw them into those threads but, that would just be a failure to be a teacher on my part.

at the point where you think you completely understand the game, and your students are there for you to experiment on, youve already failed as a teacher.

 

[Bing]

Actually I didnt even read that yeah I agree.

If you say you understand the game fully. Then you can mold up them how you want. You can take what they need to know and teach them. You can personally look on the boards, pull out the needed info and teach them.

Otherwise you're that ******* teacher who comes to class everyday. And goes "Open your textbooks to page -- and read through to -- and do questions 1-6"
And does that everyday.

 

[KirbyKaze]

You should be learning tech skill. And how to apply it.

 

[twizzlerj]

You should be learning tech skill. And how to apply it.

this is what i did to bad i told my friend to play peach and i dont know her too well lol

 

[HomeMadeWaffles]

don't try to come across as a teacher

just play them alot and eventually they'll figure something new on their own (even if they don't see it)

maybe tell them a thing or 2 they do wrong.

try not to shove things in their head

tell them one thing at a time until they have it down

if anything, make them feel encouraged

and gauge who's the most ambitious about improving

chances are it'll be that guy that improves

 

[KrIsP!]

Don't you main Puff?

Yes. And?

Are you saying that I play an easy character or that I get hated on a lot?

 

[Soft Serve]

Well, as a scrub myself, I can tell you that the ways I learned fastest was:

1) geting punished HARD for all of my stupid habits.
2) I found an Idol to strive to be like. When I first saw Dr. PP play ( Vs M2K WGF gf I think) I instantly wanted to be able to play like that. Even though I don't even main falco the motivation jumped started my drive to improve.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Yes. And?

Are you saying that I play an easy character or that I get hated on a lot?

I dunno why reading Melee disc. would get you down about your tech skill. You don't need to do much with Puff. As long as you have good timing out of your aerials, hit your LCs, JC your grabs, and can do a reasonable movement then you're fine.

 

[ThePrime]

Dont force stuff down their throat and let them make mistakes. And if they're seriously trying to get better (if you know they're watching vids/putting time in the lab) make them realize that you don't have to play fancy to win. Most movements and general inputs you do are in response to what your opponent does.

 

[Yo$himan]

So what I'm getting from all this is...

Plant them in a pot and every now and then give them a slight nudge in the right direction. So basically, if they want it bad enough they will put in the time themselves?

I better not play falcon, he'll be leaving some footprints on them sprouts.

 

[KrIsP!]

Well, always encourage them. I'd say just play and have fun with them and let them ask you questions. Also tell them to come here themselves.

 

[Deleted member]

i got to the word duty and stopped reading. as soon as you're pressing your sense of duty and thus your agenda onto someone else, i have to question how much you're actually helping them.

 

[Yo$himan]

Teachers force their agenda on to students every day, so what's the difference? By pushing my agenda on to them, I'll be giving them a nice easy path toward success. While I provide the path, it's up to the student to reach the end. This course is also taught at an AP level, so anyone with no willingness to learn can take the remedial class during the summer.

 

[Massive]

Teachers force their agenda on to students every day, so what's the difference? By pushing my agenda on to them, I'll be giving them a nice easy path toward success. While I provide the path, it's up to the student to reach the end. This course is also taught at an AP level, so anyone with no willingness to learn can take the remedial class during the summer.

Teachers who attempt to force their agenda are usually terrible teachers. Have you attained success yourself? What do you define success as? The fact that you don't understand how these concepts flow together or how to teach them indicates to me that you are not as comfortable with them as you claim.

You can definitely teach them to be technically proficient, but beyond that, anything above basic strategy is something that is better learned from experience and thought rather than strict teaching. I can absolutely guarantee that you do not know best-practice strategies for every character they are going to play, nor are you authority enough to enforce any type of rules on them.

Also, I can't believe I didn't catch this before:

I completely understand all aspects about melee, but I'm unsure what order to teach them.

This is a ****ty, sophomoric attitude. If you "completely understood all aspects about melee" you would rank among the best players in the world.
The very same players who always feel like they could still improve and many of whom will readily admit that they don't understand everything about this game.