yeah dude like i dont even know what all the buttons do and i could probably beat you too like. what the **** is a dpad? what the **** is it supposed to do? who wants a move that freezes your character so u get hit right after what is that ****
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Being a smash Sensei
- Thread starter Yo$himan
- Start date
Host Change
Smash Ace
Just be encouraging, play your main a couple games per night so they have somebody to look up to and then play on random or with characters you are less skilled with to level out the playing field.
Make sure you help them with one bad habit at a time and have fun while doing it so you don't come across as a teacher. Here's an example:
One of my new friends had a bad rolling habit and he was mostly playing Mario at the time. When he would kill me, he would always roll behind me when I approached him. This is a pretty easy read against a new player as I'm sure most people reading would know. So, I would walk towards him and charge a reverse fsmash knowing he would roll and as I'm doing this I would shout "ROLL!!!" really loud and he'd get hit by the fsmash. After doing that twice that bad habit disappeared pretty quick. Sometimes stuff like that is a lot better than being negative or telling them what to do.
Beyond just playing with them though and having a good time, tell them to watch videos of top players playing their characters in tournament and it should help a lot. I learned more about playing Smash from watching videos than just about anything when I was brand new. If they really want to improve, they should take notes and look for one thing to emulate in their playstyle from every match they watch.
Try to create a community over a schoolroom... But good luck helping your buddies learn!
Make sure you help them with one bad habit at a time and have fun while doing it so you don't come across as a teacher. Here's an example:
One of my new friends had a bad rolling habit and he was mostly playing Mario at the time. When he would kill me, he would always roll behind me when I approached him. This is a pretty easy read against a new player as I'm sure most people reading would know. So, I would walk towards him and charge a reverse fsmash knowing he would roll and as I'm doing this I would shout "ROLL!!!" really loud and he'd get hit by the fsmash. After doing that twice that bad habit disappeared pretty quick. Sometimes stuff like that is a lot better than being negative or telling them what to do.
Beyond just playing with them though and having a good time, tell them to watch videos of top players playing their characters in tournament and it should help a lot. I learned more about playing Smash from watching videos than just about anything when I was brand new. If they really want to improve, they should take notes and look for one thing to emulate in their playstyle from every match they watch.
Try to create a community over a schoolroom... But good luck helping your buddies learn!
D
Deleted member
Guest
Bing
Smash Master
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
Just play with them and keep the game fun so they actually care to learn and get better. They'll bring their own competitive edge once the person they always beat starts beating them, and they'll stick with it so long as they find laying the game interesting.
Teach them the fundamentals and punish their habits but don't turn it into anything other than what it is. A game.
Spyro
Smash Ace
I actually got my little sister to play Melee with me just today and she seems to be having a lot of fun with it. She has the same main as me (Pikachu). Right now she is just learning basic stuff like how to recover with characters like Pikachu, Fox, etc. My little brother played too but he dose not seem to have nearly as much fun with it, he just comes out with "I suck at this game" or something like that and gives up.
Phoenix~Lament
Smash Ace
The best way to get them to become better at melee is to teach them how to teach themselves.
There's a lot to be learned from watching competitive videos. If they have the passion for it, they will learn tons and tons.
There's a lot to be learned from watching competitive videos. If they have the passion for it, they will learn tons and tons.
Spyro
Smash Ace
How exactly do I do that?
Phoenix~Lament
Smash Ace
That involves making it a habit of asking yourself several basic questions:
How often this sort of relative positioning occurs in a game involving a Marth depends on how good both players are at positioning. If the Marth is good, he will be able to force the opponent into bad positions which easily lead to grabs or combos. However if the opponent is better, Marth will instead be in bad positions which will lead to him being punished.
That said, there are two main "games" within melee: A game of landing the first hit, and then a game of attempting to combo/punish as hard as you can. Understanding these two games is key to improving in melee, and being able to analyze what other people do towards these ends, of caliber higher AND lower than yours, will help you get better.
Remember Isai's famous saying, "Don't get hit?" Yes, it's that important. And yes, it's that hard.
I feel like most beginners need more instruction in the game of landing the first hit, because positioning is much more an abstract skill than strict comboing is. It's difficult to practice positioning against CPU's, while it's fairly easy to practice comboing against CPU's.
Furthermore, I believe that there are four core aspects to melee (this is inspired by Wobbles' Four Aspects to Melee thread): Positioning, Mindgames, Tech Skill, and Game Knowledge.
Though all four aspects are key to all parts of melee, positioning and mindgames are what dictate who is better at the "landing the first hit" game, while tech skill and game knowledge are primarily what dictate who is better at the "comboing" game.
Circling back to your question from the gigantic tangent, the key to being able to teach yourself is to constantly ask yourself the right questions, and be able to reason through it and get the right answers. If you want to stop losing to a player, simply ask yourself, "Why do I lose to this player?" Using the tools above (positioning, mind-games, tech skill, game knowledge), players should be able to formulate a concrete answer that dictates the appropriate course of action to stop losing in that specific manner. Of course, if the opponent adapts just as fast or faster than you do, it'll be an uphill battle, but this is the key to improving yourself.
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I would appreciate feedback and criticism or discussion of everything I said above, because I'm planning a personal project of making several melee "instruction" videos this summer that teaches melee along these lines. I have taught melee to literally dozens of people and I feel like doing so has taught me a lot about the game, and it feels like lots and lots of people are eager to learn melee these days not just within personal reach.
These are questions you think about in between games. During a game, you should ask yourself
It's an accumulation of mistakes of course, but unless it was a self-destruct, stock loss can always be traced backwards to one instance of getting hit. Now, you need to ask yourself,
Of course, there's even more mistakes that are responsible, but getting hit can be traced backwards to positioning. One person was in a better position than the other, which led to a hit. Once a hit is landed, it becomes a game of how well you can combo. Now, positioning is important because if you're able to manuever the opponent into a position that is advantageous for you, it cuts down on their options while keeping yours open. A specific example is if an opponent is exactly tipper range from Marth. That relative position is very advantageous for Marth because Marth has many quick options that can hit the opponent that would be hard to defend against. At that range, a forward smash comes out too quickly for most people to react to, so it comes down to predicting when exactly the Marth will forward smash. This is very stressful and pressuring for Marth's opponent and may lead them to pre-emptively raise their shield, which Marth CAN react to and grab them if they're wary. Of course, the obvious counter to this situation is to instead reset the positioning by moving away. However, this can be predictable and Marth could chase upon reaction. Another mixup is to instead attempt to hit Marth before Marth fsmashes - lots of mindgames come into play here.
How often this sort of relative positioning occurs in a game involving a Marth depends on how good both players are at positioning. If the Marth is good, he will be able to force the opponent into bad positions which easily lead to grabs or combos. However if the opponent is better, Marth will instead be in bad positions which will lead to him being punished.
That said, there are two main "games" within melee: A game of landing the first hit, and then a game of attempting to combo/punish as hard as you can. Understanding these two games is key to improving in melee, and being able to analyze what other people do towards these ends, of caliber higher AND lower than yours, will help you get better.
Remember Isai's famous saying, "Don't get hit?" Yes, it's that important. And yes, it's that hard.
I feel like most beginners need more instruction in the game of landing the first hit, because positioning is much more an abstract skill than strict comboing is. It's difficult to practice positioning against CPU's, while it's fairly easy to practice comboing against CPU's.
Furthermore, I believe that there are four core aspects to melee (this is inspired by Wobbles' Four Aspects to Melee thread): Positioning, Mindgames, Tech Skill, and Game Knowledge.
Though all four aspects are key to all parts of melee, positioning and mindgames are what dictate who is better at the "landing the first hit" game, while tech skill and game knowledge are primarily what dictate who is better at the "comboing" game.
Circling back to your question from the gigantic tangent, the key to being able to teach yourself is to constantly ask yourself the right questions, and be able to reason through it and get the right answers. If you want to stop losing to a player, simply ask yourself, "Why do I lose to this player?" Using the tools above (positioning, mind-games, tech skill, game knowledge), players should be able to formulate a concrete answer that dictates the appropriate course of action to stop losing in that specific manner. Of course, if the opponent adapts just as fast or faster than you do, it'll be an uphill battle, but this is the key to improving yourself.
-
I would appreciate feedback and criticism or discussion of everything I said above, because I'm planning a personal project of making several melee "instruction" videos this summer that teaches melee along these lines. I have taught melee to literally dozens of people and I feel like doing so has taught me a lot about the game, and it feels like lots and lots of people are eager to learn melee these days not just within personal reach.
Spyro
Smash Ace
Thanks, I already knew about questioning yourself thanks to Gimpyfish's video but I did not really know what you mean by teach them how to teach themselves, but now I know what you mean.
KrIsP!
Smash Champion
@Phoenix
Really liked your post, to the point that I said to myself that it was a good post. Also, in depth videos are seriously needed. Whenever I look up how to do an advanced technique outside waks basic stuff all I find are like tas videos of it being used ratherthan a how to and I think videos will help bring in a lot of newcomers.
Really liked your post, to the point that I said to myself that it was a good post. Also, in depth videos are seriously needed. Whenever I look up how to do an advanced technique outside waks basic stuff all I find are like tas videos of it being used ratherthan a how to and I think videos will help bring in a lot of newcomers.
Geenareeno
Smash Lord
If they are someone who gets discouraged easily you might not want to try your hardest. Sometimes playing like a scrub can help them get better quicker too. Like if you pick Marth and spam F-smash they will quickly learn how to counter it.Is it a good idea to kind of go easy on someone you are trying to teach so they don't get too discouraged? Or should you try and JV 5 stock them every time?
Krynxe
I can't pronounce it either
Yep, definitely. Another thing I used to do for new people is like bthrow shine by the ledge and other easy shine setups with fox and explain to them to mix up their recovery and not immediately jump/do the same thing. When you give advice to someone, it usually goes over their head unless you show them the hard way in some matches.
Also, it's generally a habit for new players to keep doing the same thing even after it stopped working. (Falco dair spam, peach dsmash spam, marth fsmash spam, etc.) They'll keep doing what "works" even though their opponent has adapted. Because of this, don't play too badly because if you let them win doing stuff like this they'll think that it works. One of my friends actually got pretty arrogant and thought he could "give me a hard time with marth" when he really just spams fsmash and managed beat some of my low tiers while I wasn't playing seriously. When you get them to start mixing up what they do (like with my shine example) then they'll start applying it more to all aspects of the game.
It's helpless if they aren't motivated, though.
Massive
Smash Champion
The downside of going easy on someone is when you let the matches become close, they can get a false sense of mastery. You have to very carefully walk the line between showing them stuff and letting them win.
It can really destroy someone's confidence if you were sandbagging the whole time and they thought they had seriously improved. It can also be hilarious. Your mileage may vary, of course.
It can really destroy someone's confidence if you were sandbagging the whole time and they thought they had seriously improved. It can also be hilarious. Your mileage may vary, of course.
While we are on this topic, what's the best character to play as to help someone new learn? Should the "Sensei" play many characters so the trainee learns different matchups?
I think Falcon/Fox are good Sensei characters to play as because they **** people who are predictable and do the same thing every time. More so than other characters imo. So that teaches trainees to not be predictable, which is a huge lesson to be learned in smash.
I think Falcon/Fox are good Sensei characters to play as because they **** people who are predictable and do the same thing every time. More so than other characters imo. So that teaches trainees to not be predictable, which is a huge lesson to be learned in smash.
Rud Lisi
Smash Cadet
wait are you THE yoshiman....
yoshiman-sama-sensai-pai-naruto
please teach me... i beg you!
yoshiman-sama-sensai-pai-naruto
please teach me... i beg you!
bertbusdriver
Smash Ace
Troll them by letting them get you to high percent last stock every match but then comboing the crap outta them. The best motivation ever.
Bing
Smash Master
Then you miss you wavedash off the ledge for the edge guard and sd like a boss
I legit did this... Roy <3