Being a "Low Tier Player" does not make you unique or honorable.

[Overswarm]

you suck with analogies. I wouldn't be shocked by either because I know good Kirby players. and what does that have to do with bragging rights?

So you're saying that if at MLG's last event for smash, if PC Chris had gotten second, Korean DJ had gotten third, Ken had gotten 4th, and a guy that played nothing but kirby got 1rst, you wouldn't be shocked?

You are lying, sir.

 

[Dr. Steve Brule]

So you're saying that if at MLG's last event for smash, if PC Chris had gotten second, Korean DJ had gotten third, Ken had gotten 4th, and a guy that played nothing but kirby got 1rst, you wouldn't be shocked?

You are lying, sir.

the kirby must have been wearing no underwear to show of fhis MASSIVE BALLS FOR GOING ALL KIRBY AGAINST THOSE GUYS, thus distracting his opponents

 

[wuthefwasthat]

you suck with analogies. I wouldn't be shocked by either because I know good Kirby players. and what does that have to do with bragging rights?

but im sure you know MORE good fox players

 

[LinkGadra]

Here's a quick point I haven't seen addressed yet:
Would Melee be the enduring (6 years and still the best-selling gamecube game!) game we know and love if there were only four characters: Fox, Falco, Marth, and Shiek (no Zelda)?

I don't think so. With such limits, the game wouldn't last nearly as long as it has before people got bored with seeing the same things over and over and over again, and would eventually die off and be replaced with something else.

That said, I believe the main conflict with the tier list is that many people take it way too seriously. I'm aware of the fact that Shiek is at the top of the list (as far as I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). However, not every tournament is won by a Shiek player. This shows that, while informative, the tier list is not irrifutable(sp?)

Thank you for your time.

 

[BigRick]

That said, I believe the main conflict with the tier list is that many people take it way too seriously. I'm aware of the fact that Shiek is at the top of the list (as far as I've seen, correct me if I'm wrong). However, not every tournament is won by a Shiek player. This shows that, while informative, the tier list is not irrifutable(sp?)

Thank you for your time.

There's a flaw in your argument. First of all, let me correct you: Fox is currently ranked 1st on the tier list.

The tier list doesn't say that Fox wins every tournament, it says that the higher tiered chars wins more tournaments. It is true that Fox doesn't win everytime, but when such a thing happens, it is because a Sheik or a Falco won instead... not a Bowser or a Mewtwo.

So the tier list is very accurate, thx.

EDIT: Now being on topic, if you main a Low Tier, it makes you unique/honorable. You're unique because most ppl don't play Low Tiers, they play High Tiers. You are honorable if you win, because you managed to beat your opponent even though you were handicapped.

If you lose though, you can't john about you're opponent being a tier *****. You had the choice between the crappy or the good char. If you choose to play with a crappy character, be ready to deal with the consequences, which is most of the time, losing.

You're opponent should be considered more skilled than you at this game, because he was able to pick the better character... People don't usually talk about this, but I think that choosing a good char is a part of having skill. A good player will always try to put more chances in is favor, cause that's how you win.

 

[tarheeljks]

It is fairly obvious that more people play higher tier characters than lower tier characters, but the word "unique" is a stretch. They are definitely in the minority, yet there are plenty of people who play low tier characters, they just don't win tournaments very often-- it's called survivorship bias.

Also, I don't like calling those who use low tiers honorable because it implies that players using better characters lack such honor. Every player has the chance to use any character, so it is ridiculous to assess a player's honor based on the character they choose to main. Players who are successful in spite of playing weaker characters certainly deserve respect and thus achieve said honor, because honor is earned by playing well and playing fairly. If you main a low tier character-- good for you, but don't delude yourself into thinking that you are playing "more fairly." You have simply chosen to start at a disadvantage; unless you are much better than your opponents, this is not honorable-- it is foolish and/or arrogant. Overcoming the disadvantages that come w/playing low tier characters yields honor, whereas suffering defeat does not. Honor comes from playing well with a character.

 

[Ryaneatworld]

I would be surprised that some random guy beat those three people. :D that would be sweet.

 

[LinkGadra]

I never said the tier list was inaccurate, BigRick, just that it's not completly right. And my main point was my question, which you didn't answer. Do you believe that Melee would be where it is today with only four charcters? Does anyone on this thread (if not on the boards)?

 

[The_Famous_SK]

I thought tiers were based on peoples' performance in tournament. Like... Zelda players do crappy, so she's low tier, not because her moves suck, but because nobody plays her well.

Wouldn't it be nice if YOU were the reason someone's tier level changed?

 

[vZakat]

I think people should play with someone because they like them not because they like winning. Last year there were a huge amount of shiek players because she was at the top, but after fox moved to the top most of the shiek players disappeared. You should play for fun, and if you cant have fun without winning you are a very poor sportsman. I hate tier whores, they just bring down the whole smash community.

 

[Problem2]

You DO get bragging rights when you win with low tier characters, but of course not when you lose. Yeah, if you can't win with a low tier character then switch to a higher one, but why bother if you can win with either?

Those who are saying there is no more value or bragging rights by beating someone with a low tier than with a high tier are being ignorant, probably because those people are all high tier "whores" themselves as vZakat nicely put it. The only reason those people are saying that there is no bragging is because they know they couldn't pull it off themselves, or possibly because they have been beat by a low tier player.

 

[Tongji]

As a low tier player myself I can vouge for 2 things that I am 100% sure of
1. Tiers exist for a reason. I play my good friend (n00k) almost daily, and even tho we have been playing smash the same amount of time, we can both do all of the "adv. tecks" for every character, he mains fox and me MewTwo. When we play I only win about 75% of the time. Not because I am not a skilled player but because fox out paces mewtwo in everything! (exept recovery) When I play him it is annoying because he 'knows' how to play mewtwo exploit his weaknesses and ultimatly **** me till I bleed.

2. People who play a low tier characer have a huge advantage that they never take into account (and those that play high teir have a huge disadvantage that is also never taken into account) For those of us that play low tier we have a great advantage! It is being un-known. Not every smasher you meet is going to know how to play a competative mewtwo or pichu ext. However i will GARUNTEE you that every smasher knows how to play against fox, falco ext. I have a true story to back up my claims as well. I stated above that my friend (n00k) beats the crap out of my M2, however when we went to our first turnament I did better than him. It's not that he got matched up with good people or I got some easy chumps, it's just that nobody at that turny knew anything about mewtwo. However my friend found out the hard way taht everyone knows fox and how to combo the living crap out of a space animal.

Just because you are playing with a low tier it doesn't mean that you should get any special 'honor' that is a joke. The low tier characters would be 'better' if more people played them and they would 'grow' more. Because know one plays them they never improve and thus will always sit at the bottom. you should never get any bragging rights if you beat someone with a low tier, nor if you beat them with a high tier.

well that's just me two cents worth

 

[Brookman]

All low tier players smell mad. This is not an insult, but just a way to relate all their arguments for low tier to something silly. I'll explain later.

 

[tarheeljks]

For this post I'm using "you" in the general sense; this isn't directed at one person.

Why do you think you deserve honor for playing a lower tier character, while at the same time you accost people for only wanting to win-- is there honor in making rash judgements? In this thread the word honor seems to have taken on the definition of "willingness to lose."(that certainly isn't the definition but I'll entertain it for a moment). Before anyone says that that's not what it means in the context of this thread, let me clarify. By calling players tier whores, you insinuate that they only care about winning and thus only learn to use high tier characters. If playing low tier characters is honorable, it follows that playing high tiers exclusively is not. By recognizing the fact that higher tiers are more likely to win, but still choosing to play w/a weaker character you are essentially characterizing your honor by the fact that you are more willing to lose. Your honor as a player is a function of what you hope to gain from the game, which brings me to my next point.

I agree that you deserve respect for winning w/lower tier characters (see my previoius post), but you can't condemn somone for playing with a high tier character. Credit is given where credit is due whether you are winning with Fox or Ganon. It does not make sense to project your reasons for playing Smash onto every other player and then assume that anyone who disagrees is "playing for the wrong reason." Smash offers different pleasures for different players. People who want to win generally play with better characters, while others are more likely to select lower tier characters. However, that doesn't mean that those who play with lower tier characters like losing. Just as people have argued about "tier whores" only wanting to win, I could claim that those who play low tiers characters are afraid to lose. I don't think that this is the case, but the latter claim is just as reasonable as the former. I don't consider players who play low tier characters more honorable than those who main high tier characters or vice versa. It's all relative and in the end people will play for their own reasons. This is where the honor in the game lies. One reason for playing is just as good as the next.

edit: In addition to playing for your own reasons, the honor in the game lies in trying to improve your skills regardless of the character you play. You may b***h about "tier whores" you care about your skill just as much. You may not aspire to be MLG Champ, but you still care. If not you probably wouldn't even be a member of this forum and you definitely wouldn't spend time learning the advanced techs of your character.

 

[Red Exodus]

I think- no, I KNOW some people are caught in this whole 'tier war' by accident. I main different characters because I want to, not because of a tier list. Other people probably feel this way, they choose characters because it fits their style not because of the tier list, although there will always be 'tier whores' that just screw everything up.

P.S. I main Fox and I'm trying to improve my Samus, she's fun to play as.

 

[KevinM]

I think playing a low tier player does make you honorable IMO.

You have taken the time to learn and get better with a non used character who otherwise doesn't get a lot of play time. You save them otherwise without dire, game and watch would merely turn sideways and disappear off the GC its true. If thats not honor then what is

 

[Butters$mokesweed2]

For this post I'm using "you" in the general sense; this isn't directed at one person.

Why do you think you deserve honor for playing a lower tier character, while at the same time you accost people for only wanting to win-- is there honor in making rash judgements? In this thread the word honor seems to have taken on the definition of "willingness to lose."(that certainly isn't the definition but I'll entertain it for a moment). Before anyone says that that's not what it means in the context of this thread, let me clarify. By calling players tier whores, you insinuate that they only care about winning and thus only learn to use high tier characters. If playing low tier characters is honorable, it follows that playing high tiers exclusively is not. By recognizing the fact that higher tiers are more likely to win, but still choosing to play w/a weaker character you are essentially characterizing your honor by the fact that you are more willing to lose. Your honor as a player is a function of what you hope to gain from the game, which brings me to my next point.

I agree that you deserve respect for winning w/lower tier characters (see my previoius post), but you can't condemn somone for playing with a high tier character. Credit is given where credit is due whether you are winning with Fox or Ganon. It does not make sense to project your reasons for playing Smash onto every other player and then assume that anyone who disagrees is "playing for the wrong reason." Smash offers different pleasures for different players. People who want to win generally play with better characters, while others are more likely to select lower tier characters. However, that doesn't mean that those who play with lower tier characters like losing. Just as people have argued about "tier whores" only wanting to win, I could claim that those who play low tiers characters are afraid to lose. I don't think that this is the case, but the latter claim is just as reasonable as the former. I don't consider players who play low tier characters more honorable than those who main high tier characters or vice versa. It's all relative and in the end people will play for their own reasons. This is where the honor in the game lies. One reason for playing is just as good as the next.

edit: In addition to playing for your own reasons, the honor in the game lies in trying to improve your skills regardless of the character you play. You may b***h about "tier whores" you care about your skill just as much. You may not aspire to be MLG Champ, but you still care. If not you probably wouldn't even be a member of this forum and you definitely wouldn't spend time learning the advanced techs of your character.

couldn't say it better myself.

 

[Red Exodus]

I think playing a low tier player does make you honorable IMO.

You have taken the time to learn and get better with a non used character who otherwise doesn't get a lot of play time. You save them otherwise without dire, game and watch would merely turn sideways and disappear off the GC its true. If thats not honor then what is

You have to learn to play as every character, it's not like you can pick up Fox/Shiek/Marth and win every match. Fox is easier to SD with than most people think, you need to use his speed to your advantage otherwise you might as well play a slow character.

 

[KevinM]

You have to learn to play as every character, it's not like you can pick up Fox/Shiek/Marth and win every match. Fox is easier to SD with than most people think, you need to use his speed to your advantage otherwise you might as well play a slow character.

I used Fox at one point trust me i respect them but they still get shown love a lot more then my main bowser, see what i'm saying. We bring the low tiers sexy back obv

 

[[Deuce]]

the kirby must have been wearing no underwear to show of fhis MASSIVE BALLS FOR GOING ALL KIRBY AGAINST THOSE GUYS, thus distracting his opponents

lololol

Here's how I see it: Do not feel guilty for using top tiers; do not feel cheated if you use low tiers; no matter the outcome of a match and no matter what tiers the characters were, your goal is either to win, have fun, or somewhere in between. Base your character choice to help fulfill your goal best and let no one tell you off whoever you use and for whatever reason.

Thats right.

 

[Tristan_win]

Well the only character that I use that isn't a high tier is Zelda and that's only to complement my Sheik in battle.

 

[VgtPrncfllSyns]

Well here's my totally unbiased, unimportant and random comment:

Who the **** cares who you play? Just have fun with it.

 

[tarheeljks]

I think playing a low tier player does make you honorable IMO.

You have taken the time to learn and get better with a non used character who otherwise doesn't get a lot of play time. You save them otherwise without dire, game and watch would merely turn sideways and disappear off the GC its true. If thats not honor then what is

I will say this again for the 3rd time-- you deserve a great deal of respect and hence "honor" if you play well w/a low tier character, but there is no honor in playing poorly. Dire deserves respect for his game and watch, not you. It sounds like all lot of these people are trying to ride on the coattails of a few badass smashers who are good w/crappy characters. They deserve the honor, not you.

edit:
@VGT: that was essentially the point of my previous post, but I think it's meaning was lost since it was a tad long.

 

[VgtPrncfllSyns]

Gotta keep em short and sweet or nobody will listen, this is smashboards not...

You get the point.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

If you think you get honor for just playing a worse character then you're ********. Pick who you want to play because you're good with them/enjoy playing with them. Don't feel special bout who you play as in this game.

 

[HaPPyTheCoW]

If you think you get honor for just playing a worse character then you're ********. Pick who you want to play because you're good with them/enjoy playing with them. Don't feel special bout who you play as in this game.

i agree, because even if someone does play with a low tiered character, theyre of course not going to be the ONLY ONE who plays as that character. AND, its most likely that theres someone else out there who plays that low tiered character better than him.

 

[D20]

I happen to main a low teir character... Young Link. Yes, I consider myself unique. I could possibly be the only person in a 200 mile radius that can say they main blue Young Link (yeah, I'm all about colors, too). Do I consider myself honorable? Not really. I picked up YL just to be different... luckily he fit my style perfectly.

So far in my smash career I have been to 6 cash tournaments and haven't placed in a single one. I've placed 4th and 5th a couple of times a piece, but I can't seem to break into the top three. The reason... my skill level is good enough to take me far, but there's a point where I need help. So, do I blame people for using high teir characters? Of course not. I don't blame people for wobbling or any other "cheap" tactics ethier. I main YL because I want to.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

To simply target the Low-Tier players:

You guys think that it's easy? Why don't you try playing with a Higher Tier Character that isn't Marth or Shiek and see how easy it is...Then you can ***** about the whole"tier *****"argument.

It seems that tier selection seems to be intergrated with lack of skill,speaking upon a character that they believe is easy to use or win with,yet lack the experiance or knowledge to do otherwise.

Even though some high tier characters may be broken,that doesn't mean that they don't require skill to use.It boils down to this.

High tier character:

More skill gained=More rewarding

low tier character:

Skill gained=Rewarding,but benifits come to a hault in lue to character priority

G'night. :D

 

[h1roshi]

i agree, because even if someone does play with a low tiered character, theyre of course not going to be the ONLY ONE who plays as that character. AND, its most likely that theres someone else out there who plays that low tiered character better than him.

unless your taj...nobody plays mewtwo better than him...peace

-hiroshi

 

[Ryaneatworld]

wow eternal phoenix fire you make me laugh. I don't think anyone thinks high tier characters are easy. I don't think theres a rumor about this game being easy period.

 

[FreakoFreako]

My main is going to be Kirby because it was my main in SSB 64... Man, I hope I can pick up Melee this weekend. Gonna buy a Wii, 2 GC Controllers and a SSBM... Finding a Wii's gonna be hard lol.

I'm not going for "Unique", I just like Kirby that's all lol. I don't really look at Tier List and then choose char based on that.. Like for example.. I don't like using Pikachu in SSB64.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

My main is going to be Kirby because it was my main in SSB 64... Man, I hope I can pick up Melee this weekend. Gonna buy a Wii, 2 GC Controllers and a SSBM... Finding a Wii's gonna be hard lol.

I'm not going for "Unique", I just like Kirby that's all lol. I don't really look at Tier List and then choose char based on that.. Like for example.. I don't like using Pikachu in SSB64.

Good luck, kirby rarely stands a chance. But hey if you like him lets see what you can do, theres some cool kirby combo vids out there so meh, just remember they nerfed him a LOT since n64, he was godly back then.

 

[Uber]

I play as lugi some times and he's a low tier and i dont have any trouble playing against ppl who play with high low or top teirs

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

wow eternal phoenix fire you make me laugh. I don't think anyone thinks high tier characters are easy. I don't think theres a rumor about this game being easy period.

Most low tier players believe that the only reason that skilled players win is because they have high tier characters,to the contrary it is the skill that the posses with those characters,that allow them to be rewraded with a victory.High tier characters have less limitations,which allow good players to be great with them.

Sure,high tiers are good,but they requier alot of skill(Unless you play Shiek,Lol ;D).

 

[Ryaneatworld]

yeah, but what I'm saying is I think EVERYBODY knows that some complete noob isn't going to be great just because he plays a high tier character.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

Sure,high tiers are good,but they requier alot of skill(Unless you play Shiek,Lol ;D).

Watch it, EPF. I resemble that remark. Lol.

At any rate...

I don't think being a "Low Tier Player" makes you the billy-badass (or Joe Cool) of Smash. It's...just another 'toon, in my opinion. Just because you dropped the bloody chip on a character that hardly anybody mains (or uses, for that matter) does not qualify you for kudos from your fellow Smashers. It's an empty shell that's framed by pixels and bits of data, just like every other bloody character in the game (no, I am not ruling out the usefulness and applicability of tier listings with this statement; please do not misconstrue my commentary). It does not denote status, it does not denote "uniqueness", and it sure as hell does not denote that you are honorable. It is nothing. It's just as empty as the avatar you had selected.

However, what you do with that character, what you make that bit of the game do with that controller. That's what matters. This is the most important thing of all. In order to make your 'toon more than a bloody 'toon, you gotta fill in the blanks. This is where raw skill comes in; this is where you put th' money where yer mouth is. Though he's pretty much faded into obscurity, I think Fred Durst said it quite well when he said:

Your mouth writes checks that your *** can't cash!

Possible defenses could be uttered thusly:

"But they're so hard to use!" Yeah, so is every other freakin' character in the game once you start delving into the advanced-level stuff. That's right, even Sheik is a pain in the *** to play at higher levels simply because you have to rely on mindgames more than her skill-set. I'm not a pro Sheik or anything, but it's the bloody truth and there are those that main Sheik that can attest to this.

"They have little in the way of their own techniques!" What, and you think Sheik has alot? Please. I can count all of Sheik's "unique" techs on a just a few fingers.

"Nobody else uses them!" Pfft. Whatever. I'm sure everybody else in the Smash community has used them at some point or another.

This kinda behavior merits a single word, one that Dylan uses in particular contexts: Scrubdom.

This doesn't mean, however, that I will not respect the person who just uses a low tier character simply for the purpose of admiring that particular character above all else. I'm perfectly cool with that. I feel that way about Sheik and Ice Climbers (both high tier and upper middle tier respectively, but...). I don't use these characters to "go against the grain." I use the both of them because they're a blast to play. The same goes with my other alts.

Whew. I got a little pissy with this one. Sorry everybody.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I just hope people don't think ALL low-tier players think they're honorable and whatever else you guys are talking about. I'm the only low-tier player I know, so maybe I'm out of the loop or something. I don't know why any low-tier players would put themselves on a pedestal just because of their character. It seems to me that the message of this thread hardly applies to any smashers in reality.

I agree with this quote:

Skill gained=Rewarding,but benifits come to a hault in lue to character priority

I believe that low tier characters, especially bottom tier, all have a huge gaping weakness that can be easily exploited. Sure higher tier characters have weaknesses (like Doc and Falco's crappy recovery), but they're much harder to take advantage of.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

>.<;

I don't think that 56k, but the presence of such Smashers is substantial enough for me to comment on it.

I know of, like, one other person that feels this way about their (low tier) character. Yeah, tra-la-la, it's one bloody person. Lol. There are others out there, however. They may be great or small in number; I'll never know, 'cuz I'm not omnipresent. I just stated my opinion, strong as it may have been.

>.<; Boy, did I come off angrily.

 

[Uck]

I play as lugi some times and he's a low tier and i dont have any trouble playing against ppl who play with high low or top teirs

Your so funny I showed you the smash boards just last week yet you sound like youve been doing this for years.

 

[KalimariDark]

>_> People sure have a lot of hate for Fox players. That's what I'm noticing at least, by your ridiculous rants against these higher-tiered characters. Tier lists are just current positions by the general populace on the characters' potential. I've played Fox and almost solely Fox since SSB64, and I know I still have lots of room for improvement and everything, but Fox is who I win with. And when I win, I'm having fun. No, that isn't right. When I'm playing well, maxing out my personal ability, I'm having fun. I play best, and thus have the most fun, with Fox. He fits my play style well, and with all the potential he has, I will always be having fun with him, learning new techniques, and improving on old ones. I had fun in the beginning because he was pretty easy to learn, and I'm still having fun because Fox is impossible to master (for me ). I didn't know he was so popular until my friends got into this competitively, but knowing top players use him makes me even happier with my choice to specialize in Fox.

But, for whatever overt reason you play a character, play to win. If you aren't playing to win, you aren't playing at all.