BBR Weekly Character Discussion #29: Yoshi

[Shiri]

Jamaal, quit it before I start dropping some red cards on you. D:<

And Poltergust, please take your fall scheduling to somewhere other than here.

Carry on.

 

[Purple]

On the real, do you guys really think that yoshi will -ever- move up without tournament results backing up your information? :-x. This is more of a question based on how the Brawl character discussion in general works, not just yoshi.

 

[Delta-cod]

We need someone to consistently place well in their region for a period of time before he really moves up. As of now we have various players placing "okay".

I still think these kind of placings should bump him out of F tier.

 

[Poltergust]

I thought that we were doing better than ever when it came to tournament results.

Or at least I was. I dunno... =/

 

[Purple]

I thought that we were doing better than ever when it came to tournament results.

Or at least I was. I dunno... =/

unless it's top 8, it's nothing apparently :|

 

[Z'zgashi]

I've been doing better as well. My last 4 placings have been 7th, 4th, 7th, and 5th. But of course im in a crappy scene so really that means little to nothing :D

 

[Deleted member]

Polts been doing better in his region than pretty much every characters that should be below him (ness, ike, and sonic are obviously doing better because they have better/more active players playing slightly better characters

 

[Z'zgashi]

Ness hasn't really been doing better, he just had one good placing at mlg

 

[Deleted member]

Shaky did really well in florida, i think he hasnt gone to tournaments since MLG or something, he won/placed tops in florida quite a few times

 

[Poltergust]

Also, Shaky (the best Ness player) has stopped going to tournaments.

Or at the very least he stopped playing like 1.5 months before I left.

*cough* Back to Yoshi, though...

Well, I've consistently placed top 8 in pretty much every tourney I go to (sometimes top 6, top 4, and more recently top 3). I was assuming that people like Delta and Scatz and such were doing the same.

EDIT: Ninja'd about Shaky. D:

 

[Delta-cod]

I thought that we were doing better than ever when it came to tournament results.

Or at least I was. I dunno... =/

I really only place decently.

unless it's top 8, it's nothing apparently :|

Yeah, pretty much.

I've been doing better as well. My last 4 placings have been 7th, 4th, 7th, and 5th. But of course im in a crappy scene so really that means little to nothing :D

Your tournaments have like, 12 people.

Polts been doing better in his region than pretty much every characters that should be below him (ness, ike, and sonic are obviously doing better because they have better/more active players playing slightly better characters

I really think Ness sucks. But I digress.

Also, Shaky (the best Ness player) has stopped going to tournaments.

Or at the very least he stopped playing like 1.5 months before I left.

*cough* Back to Yoshi, though...

Well, I've consistently placed top 8 in pretty much every tourney I go to (sometimes top 6, top 4, and more recently top 3). I was assuming that people like Delta and Scatz and such were doing the same.

EDIT: Ninja'd about Shaky. D:

I have NEVER placed top 8 ever. I got close one time...

Oh well, I suck.

 

[Z'zgashi]

@Deltacod: Here are the exact amounts:

7 of 29, 4 of 12 (okay so you got me here xD), 5 of 19, 7 of 47

 

[Deleted member]

Scatz has been placing not so good lately, ive been gettin top 8 whenever i go to anything (unless it has like a ton of peepz) but my tournaments are small (but pretty high saturation of really good players).

 

[Shaky]

To upset Shaky as much as possible: Yoshi has no OOS options and is therefore bad!

This made my day.

 

[bigman40]

I've never done well since I started brawl. I've always been 13th at nearly every tourney I go to. So, I don't get how me doing good/bad lately makes any difference.

At any rate, I'm going to step up my **** and seed every GA tourney there since they either seed by random or from doubles. Then I'm going to make my placing to where it should ****ing be.

 

[indigestible_wad]

I think my horrible results are screwing everybody up. That's probably what's holding yoshi back on the tier list.

 

[Teh Future]

bbr is ********. lol at anyone thinking yoshi > ike

 

[Poltergust]

This made my day.

SHAKY! Where were you? You missed my going-away party.

bbr is ********. lol at anyone thinking yoshi > ike

Except that he is...? I'm not saying it's perfect, but Crow's list places Yoshi above Ike when it comes to the top 3 players' results. Although, Ike has better results overall, but that's mostly due to there being about 4 Ike mains to every 1 Yoshi main.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Except that he is...? I'm not saying it's perfect, but Crow's list places Yoshi above Ike when it comes to the top 3 players' results. Although, Ike has better results overall, but that's mostly due to there being about 4 Ike mains to every 1 Yoshi main.

lolno.

Get a Yoshi placing top 16 in a MLG tournament, or top 10 at a tournament like APEX, and then we can talk about that possibility.

But seriously: he's not better. Shield too terribad, and the other things brought up in this topic. And mainly a lack of rep placing well at large (read: huge, 200+) tournaments. Rep's fairly important in this stage of the metagame now.

 

[DMG]

Idk. Realistically, it's easier to do well with Ike than Yoshi, if only because of the learning curve comparatively. I think they are both bad, and it shouldn't matter lol, but I would have Ike over Yoshi right now at least.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

I think it's safe to say that San carries Ike's rankings solo, and that no matter what character he played, he would be its lord and master.

 

[Purple]

The learning curve really shouldn't change if it's easier, granted you learn the character faster, however you still have the same problems that stop you from ranking. I mean, a character isn't low tier because they're -really- good, yet have a ridiculously high learning curve are they? No, they are still high tier because of the fact that when learned, they are a great asset.


____________________

I've been thinking about this for a second. "How can you show the BBR that your character is good without actually placing?"

Obviously, you guys have matchup information that would allow you to back up why your character is at least -decent- in contrast to others, but what about the MUs that are supposedly -good- yet you lost them against other players?

Maybe you should money match people (obviously big money to show importance) against top/high level players, and play the MUs as textbook as possible, show what options your characters do have against other characters, and point them out in video recording; this is pretty solid proof I would think.

 

[Yikarur]

the first page gave me a headache, so much wrong information (Yoshi:MK 45:55 lol)

Yoshi seems to be mad overrated.
Just because people are too dumb to play against Yoshi (Florida) doesn't mean Yoshi is good in any way.
the example vids of ESAM of Polt vs. Redhalberd are awful. Redhalberd played the match-up very wrong and didn't play smart in that matches at all. A Smart MK shuts Yoshi down a LOT.
Yoshi has few nice options but really, you're overrating Yoshi so much.
like I said the first page..
I quote the most ridicoulous things I've read:
"If you get eaten and turned into an egg and DI out of the egg incorrectly it sets up for a perfect uair kill." (by Gallax)

nobody of my crew ever get ***** by this because they know how to handle being in egg. Now it's up to you to learn how to mash out of egg. The egged charakter gets invincibility frames when breaking out, it's theoretically impossible to hit someone with uair out of egg if they know what to do.

"What Yoshi has to compensate for this is, IMO, one of the best approaches in the game, against most characters anyway." (by Crow)
what lol

"Also, double jump super armor is amazing. Some characters' aireal games become almost irrelevant against Yoshi, as double jump through >> NAir/UAir winds up beating so many of the attacks." (by Crow)

this has shown to me that you have no idea what you are talking about. You're extremly theorycrafting.


I already said something about ESAMs Post.

"His shield really isn't that bad. It has I think 1 frame more to drop, and combined with his jab it still makes very fast punishes (Like buffer jab out of sidestep)."


this shows he doesn't have much of an idea of Yoshi in general.

"Grenades aren't in this MU because Eggs break them and come out faster"
NON SENSE, Grenades are still good, but if Snake is soo stupid to pull greneades while an egg is flying in his direction then he's just dumb (hi Ally) .


my biggest problem with a lot posts is that egg toss is massivly overrated.
Yoshi can't move for 54 frames! that's almost a Second!
This is SO MUCH. A lot characters can run into the egg, powershield and punish Yoshi on reaction. (MK)

"I've played the MK-Yoshi match up a bit, and have been hit with the GR to spike on a few occasions >.>;" (by Tuen)

this isn't guaranted at all.

"That's one frame slower on start up than MK's. If you measure from the end of the second hit, MK's cool down is 22 frames and Yoshi's is 26 frames. Not too shabby. Yoshi's total move time is longer because the two hits are spaced farther apart. "


theoriecrafting, Yoshi always gets punished for a missed dsmash / dsmash on shield.

"and a ridiculous pivot grab to punish people as they try to get close."

Yoshis Pivotgrab is overrated.
It's punishable and extrem baitable.

"Thankfully the spike after that is really hard to do and kinda situational." (by Marcbri about Yoshi v. Falco)

the spike isn't guaranted at all, Falco shouldn't get hit by it.



so thats enough.

it's ridicoulous that thoose guys are going to do a Tier List and don't know ANYTHING of Yoshi.
and then Yoshi ends up being mid tier without deserving it ATM!
They seem just to repeat stuff that they read somewhere.

 

[Purple]

Where in the world did you hear that Yoshi should be mid tier? I think a boost is in order, but i don't remember mid tier being anywhere in the discussion. That being said though, are you content with Yoshi's current placing?

 

[Sharky]

a lot of people mentioned mid tier, but I hope it doesn't happen, personally. Yika and I pretty much agree.

 

[Purple]

:|. That's great and all, but are you content with Yoshi's current placing was the question i asked -__-

 

[Sharky]

yes
10approvals

 

[Nidtendofreak]

I think it's safe to say that San carries Ike's rankings solo, and that no matter what character he played, he would be its lord and master.

His MLG and APEX placings aren't recorded in the tournament results topic: too low. And those are the tournaments he's been to the last few months.

He isn't carrying Ike's results at all if you want to look at it from terms of that topic: he's been absent for months. >_>

 

[Depster]

His MLG and APEX placings aren't recorded in the tournament results topic: too low. And those are the tournaments he's been to the last few months.

He isn't carrying Ike's results at all if you want to look at it from terms of that topic: he's been absent for months. >_>

You seem to be unaware that San placed like 7th or 9th at Apex

 

[Sunnysunny]

How did I miss this thread?
Anyways, I want yoshi to stay low tier at the moment. I kinda like people having no clue how to fight him. Sure its greedy to get wins this way, but I swear, once yoshi becomes mid tier, and gets a little hype they'll find out quickly how to deal with him.

Yoshis eggs are incredibly overatted. They leave him wide open for attacks if you miss predict wear the opponent will be, or they power shield it And are extendo pivot grab is made alot less useful by air campers. (see: Metaknight)

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

The people that have yoshi experience will still beat him. The people that don't will still not have a clue.

Yoshi has a big enough learning curve so that if he is SUDDENLY MID TIER (Not really special either way) there won't be a influx of yoshi players who know what they are doing, and then they will quickly drop the character since he is one of the more awkward characters to play..

 

[Sunnysunny]

I played yoshi from the start, so now every other character feels awkward. :V

 

[Shiri]

Yika on dat Euro-style **** tip.

 

[Poltergust]

Yoshi seems to be mad overrated.
Just because people are too dumb to play against Yoshi (Florida) doesn't mean Yoshi is good in any way.

Hey, don't diss FL like that. I've been in the scene over there for 2 years now. They know how to fight Yoshi, that's for certain.

As for ESAM and RedHalberd, I've only fought them both in tournament like 3 times each. They obviously don't know the match-up too well, but they adjust. ESAM constantly beats me and RedHalberd beat me last time we played (although I admit that it was because I was being stupid and not adjusting right).

a lot of people mentioned mid tier, but I hope it doesn't happen, personally. Yika and I pretty much agree.

You hope it doesn't happen? Why? Sorry, but I don't want to wait another half a year for Yoshi to make it into mid-tier. If it is going to happen eventually, it might as well be now.

Before you ask, I am 100% certain that Yoshi is mid-tier. That's why I want him to finally be there.

 

[Ussi]

You seem to be unaware that San placed like 7th or 9th at Apex

he placed 9th which is too low. top 8 only

 

[Depster]

Oh you were talking about ankoku's ranking?

 

[~Firefly~]

My region is so bad that my results don't even come up when people are discussing Yoshi's tourney results, even though I have the highest placings of anybody as far as I'm aware. <3

My theorycraft is bad, so all I'm gonna say is that it would be nice if I could keep using Yoshi in Low Tiers.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Oh you were talking about ankoku's ranking?

Indeed, as that's what many people use.

Enough of me hijacking the topic: that is my reasoning as to why Yoshi currently doesn't have an argument to be over Ike.

 

[Scarlet Jile]

Ike's metagame is a lot more developed than Yoshi's is, and even if Ike is placing better now, it's only a matter of time before Yoshi catches up and passes him in my opinion.

Playing Yoshi is sort of like trying to climb out of a very deep well of ATs and discouragement. Even to this day, having played Yoshi since release, I can still only pull off about 75% of Yoshi's techs and I'm pretty much God's gift to finger dexterity.

 

[Z'zgashi]

I think yoshi should be top of low tier. If you look at the other lows, he's better than most by far, but then when you get up to mid tier you run into sonic and such who have resulst that yoshi just doesn't have yet. While i do think yoshi has the ability and the potential as a solid mid, he just hasn't reached that level yet