Pierce7d
Wise Hermit
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2006
- Messages
- 6,289
- 3DS FC
- 1993-9028-0439
Lee took 4th at Apex. I feel the need to mention that Lee SHARES my opinion of Lucario.
If the word "gimmick" and the rest of my wording so soundly offends you, that I will simply say that I feel Lucario's playstyle and options are only effective because people are ignorant of the counters. In this thread, I have actually extensively detailed those counters, and the only responses given are those to call me out on using personal examples, claiming that I'm incorrect without providing any example of why or counter strategies to the strategies I have proposed and personally used, and claiming that I am unable to be argued with, when I frequently change my mind about all manner of topics, including characters.
I find it amusing that you take such personal offense as if I had said something about you as a player directly, as opposed to listing information about a character, however it is no longer irrelevant. Most of the slander towards a particular person was directed at me, and I am not particularly wounded.
You are completely capable of searching out the counter Lucario strategies of other top players yourself. However, I personally use my own strategies, and feel that I am one of the best players at understanding Lucario's weaknesses. Ksizzle, probably Lee, and probably RJ (and probably Zucco) also feel this way. I cannot say for certain, but I'm sure they would be happy to give their opinions if asked. I used myself frequently as an example, because I was discussing a strategy that I personally invented and employ. If this strategy is indeed effective vs. Lucario, then I don't see how you can really argue that I am not justified in my claims. No one here has yet to include a reason why this strategy should fail, and I have at least given evidence of why this strategy succeeds.
In this post, I have eliminated the use of all hyperbole, and tamed down the language, although my claims are still the same. Perhaps in this fashion I can elicit a reasonable response from you.
Additionally, I feel I am justified in having a high opinion of myself, because my wealth of knowledge is both obvious and widely celebrated, and I have many accomplishments both in the community and in gameplay. I did not come here to "toot my own horn" if you will, however I am at the point in my Smash career when I find it both blasphemous and insulting when people discard my claims and detailed and studied research and information, simply dismissing it as theory-craft as if I were some '09 casual scrub.
It is positively ridiculous that you make all these claims against me but you yourself are the one who has virtually no argument against what I'm saying whatsoever, barring that Lucario produces tournament results. Lucario has NOT been beating top MetaKnights at any rate even fathomable of mention. Only in one isolated region (MD/VA) does a Lucario reign dominant (JuneBug) and this is a region that is famed for having few MK, and having many different successful characters who are clearly sub-par (Boss with Luigi, Chu with Kirby, Pyronic Star with Olimar). The other top Lucarios except for Zucco include Ksizzle and Lee Martin, both of whom are top Metaknights. Obviously, I mean absolutely no disrespect to either player, and openly acknowledge their skill. To be fair, I did not include Trela, who I've heard is relatively good, but I'm not sure of Trela's placings or accomplishments, so I am refraining to speak on that until I'm further educated, as I feel my examples are sufficient.
Furthermore, my initial claim was that Lucario's success is one due to a lack of knowledge on how to combat the character. Most of my post discusses this, so I don't actually see how his current successes are exceedingly powerful arguments against my claim.
I noticed you mentioned camping as a strategy for Lucario. However, despite Lucario's amazing walls, he is heavily susceptible by many characters to bursting approaches. After zoning Lucario's weakspot (as mentioned in previous posts, this is the range that covers Lucario's roll while remaining safe from his Fsmash, leaving you with time to react to Fair or some method of grounded approach) one can simply use a standard approach at random. Lucario's lacking grab range or fast ground moves leaves him hard pressed to punish things, leaving him with his roll as a primary escape, but leaving him hard pressed to always defend against every approach, and not able to easily take advantage of an opponent's approaches. Lucario INTENT on avoiding damage can heavily accomplish this against characters with either sub-par range, approaches, or projectiles, but that is pretty much exclusive of the characters that matter (except Pikachu, and at times Olimar).
In short, camping with Lucario is effective until the opponent decides to camp back. Considering that it is not common for Lucario to begin the match with a lead due to Aura, this is pretty effective. Only a couple of characters actually fall prey to getting wrecked by Lucario's camping. With many slow start-ups on some of his most effective walling tools, Lucario is vulnerable to powershielding, and good Dash Attacks.
If the word "gimmick" and the rest of my wording so soundly offends you, that I will simply say that I feel Lucario's playstyle and options are only effective because people are ignorant of the counters. In this thread, I have actually extensively detailed those counters, and the only responses given are those to call me out on using personal examples, claiming that I'm incorrect without providing any example of why or counter strategies to the strategies I have proposed and personally used, and claiming that I am unable to be argued with, when I frequently change my mind about all manner of topics, including characters.
I find it amusing that you take such personal offense as if I had said something about you as a player directly, as opposed to listing information about a character, however it is no longer irrelevant. Most of the slander towards a particular person was directed at me, and I am not particularly wounded.
You are completely capable of searching out the counter Lucario strategies of other top players yourself. However, I personally use my own strategies, and feel that I am one of the best players at understanding Lucario's weaknesses. Ksizzle, probably Lee, and probably RJ (and probably Zucco) also feel this way. I cannot say for certain, but I'm sure they would be happy to give their opinions if asked. I used myself frequently as an example, because I was discussing a strategy that I personally invented and employ. If this strategy is indeed effective vs. Lucario, then I don't see how you can really argue that I am not justified in my claims. No one here has yet to include a reason why this strategy should fail, and I have at least given evidence of why this strategy succeeds.
In this post, I have eliminated the use of all hyperbole, and tamed down the language, although my claims are still the same. Perhaps in this fashion I can elicit a reasonable response from you.
Additionally, I feel I am justified in having a high opinion of myself, because my wealth of knowledge is both obvious and widely celebrated, and I have many accomplishments both in the community and in gameplay. I did not come here to "toot my own horn" if you will, however I am at the point in my Smash career when I find it both blasphemous and insulting when people discard my claims and detailed and studied research and information, simply dismissing it as theory-craft as if I were some '09 casual scrub.
It is positively ridiculous that you make all these claims against me but you yourself are the one who has virtually no argument against what I'm saying whatsoever, barring that Lucario produces tournament results. Lucario has NOT been beating top MetaKnights at any rate even fathomable of mention. Only in one isolated region (MD/VA) does a Lucario reign dominant (JuneBug) and this is a region that is famed for having few MK, and having many different successful characters who are clearly sub-par (Boss with Luigi, Chu with Kirby, Pyronic Star with Olimar). The other top Lucarios except for Zucco include Ksizzle and Lee Martin, both of whom are top Metaknights. Obviously, I mean absolutely no disrespect to either player, and openly acknowledge their skill. To be fair, I did not include Trela, who I've heard is relatively good, but I'm not sure of Trela's placings or accomplishments, so I am refraining to speak on that until I'm further educated, as I feel my examples are sufficient.
Furthermore, my initial claim was that Lucario's success is one due to a lack of knowledge on how to combat the character. Most of my post discusses this, so I don't actually see how his current successes are exceedingly powerful arguments against my claim.
I noticed you mentioned camping as a strategy for Lucario. However, despite Lucario's amazing walls, he is heavily susceptible by many characters to bursting approaches. After zoning Lucario's weakspot (as mentioned in previous posts, this is the range that covers Lucario's roll while remaining safe from his Fsmash, leaving you with time to react to Fair or some method of grounded approach) one can simply use a standard approach at random. Lucario's lacking grab range or fast ground moves leaves him hard pressed to punish things, leaving him with his roll as a primary escape, but leaving him hard pressed to always defend against every approach, and not able to easily take advantage of an opponent's approaches. Lucario INTENT on avoiding damage can heavily accomplish this against characters with either sub-par range, approaches, or projectiles, but that is pretty much exclusive of the characters that matter (except Pikachu, and at times Olimar).
In short, camping with Lucario is effective until the opponent decides to camp back. Considering that it is not common for Lucario to begin the match with a lead due to Aura, this is pretty effective. Only a couple of characters actually fall prey to getting wrecked by Lucario's camping. With many slow start-ups on some of his most effective walling tools, Lucario is vulnerable to powershielding, and good Dash Attacks.
