Bayonetta Combo & Followup Thread! [WIP]

[TTTTTsd]

Learn how to do what exactly? I don't get it. They got sent the normal direction every single time, no? And a second witch twist never was shown either so I at least don't know how I'm supposed to learn where it is going to send them or why follow-ups wouldn't work...

You can up B -> downward forward B, it seems:

When people learn that you can SDI out of Witch Twist at low %s either via dual stick SDI or Quarter Circle DI.

This prevents Double Witch Twist stuff off the top and certain combos that involve two Witch Twists become harder because they can opt to go behind you or go in front.

Additionally depending on what they're hit by, if they know Witch Twist is going to happen in a combo, they can SDI as well.

Basically in some cases SDI seems to be able to get people out of Witch Twist at frame advantage. Just something to be wary of because it's going to be common practice vs. Bayo so people don't get cheesed by goofy combos off the top or anythin of the sort.

Basically Smash's training mode sucks and makes things look guaranteed when they really aren't and I hate it.

 

[Ijuka]

When people learn that you can SDI out of Witch Twist at low %s either via dual stick SDI or Quarter Circle DI.

This prevents Double Witch Twist stuff off the top and certain combos that involve two Witch Twists become harder because they can opt to go behind you or go in front.

Additionally depending on what they're hit by, if they know Witch Twist is going to happen in a combo, they can SDI as well.

Basically in some cases SDI seems to be able to get people out of Witch Twist at frame advantage. Just something to be wary of because it's going to be common practice vs. Bayo so people don't get cheesed by goofy combos off the top or anythin of the sort.

Basically Smash's training mode sucks and makes things look guaranteed when they really aren't and I hate it.

I have not seen seen a single twist make them go behind you yet so if that happens, I'd like to see it demonstrated before treating it as a fact. I still have no clue what you're trying to say about a second witch twist because that video never showed a second witch twist.

The first and second twist you do have different knockback properties.

All twists in the twitter video sent them to the front apart from the final one which was such a poor hit it would make them fall out regardless.

 

[TTTTTsd]

I have not seen seen a single twist make them go behind you yet so if that happens, I'd like to see it demonstrated before treating it as a fact. I still have no clue what you're trying to say about a second witch twist because that video never showed a second witch twist.

The first and second twist you do have different knockback properties.

All twists in the twitter video sent them to the front apart from the final one which was such a poor hit it would make them fall out regardless.

The final hits have different KB properties among WT1 and WT2 but I imagine the combo hits work the same as far as hitlag and SDI modifiers go, which is what makes SDI possible (1.3 hitlag, 1.0x SDI for those wondering).

Here's a better example of a good hit with SDI.

 

[Ijuka]

Alright, that makes more sense. I still wonder how practical this is but it's good to keep in mind.

 

[TTTTTsd]

Alright, that makes more sense. I still wonder how practical this is but it's good to keep in mind.

IMO Bayonetta is the ultimate test of game mechanics for her player and her opponent.

Can you read DI and can they actually DI properly? That is the question~

 

[Zalezus]

IMO Bayonetta is the ultimate test of game mechanics for her player and her opponent.

Can you read DI and can they actually DI properly? That is the question~

Love this

 

[2fast]

I've looked through the combos here and learned some stuff on my own and I was actually pretty miffed when learning about the double dABK > double WT 0-death since that would probably make people hate this character as much as prepatch Diddy and Luigi if that was inescapable.

After messing with it, it definitely seems 100% diable so that WT doesn't connect after the 2nd dABK. Not to mention fair 1 is 100% diable as well. It's going to have to make us really mix combos up against high level players since they'll probably know (or at least they should) how to Di our stuff. Though Bayonetta is going to completely cheese newer players which eh, I'm okay with .

 

[Sonicninja115]

Fair 1 can true into Bair, but I haven't been able to make it Jab-lock yet, it seems that her moves were designed so that you only need three more frames to pull it off.

Fair 1 causes tumble at ridiculous percents, making a great tech chase situation. If they don't tech, Dtilt. Tech in place, Dtilt. Tech Right/Left, Heel Kick/Grab.

 

[Otterz]

Fair 1 can true into Bair, but I haven't been able to make it Jab-lock yet, it seems that her moves were designed so that you only need three more frames to pull it off.

Fair 1 causes tumble at ridiculous percents, making a great tech chase situation. If they don't tech, Dtilt. Tech in place, Dtilt. Tech Right/Left, Heel Kick/Grab.

When you say Fair1 into Bair, are you fast falling it then following up? I know Fair1 combos into Smashes if you do that, but I can't seem to FF it.

 

[Ijuka]

I've looked through the combos here and learned some stuff on my own and I was actually pretty miffed when learning about the double dABK > double WT 0-death since that would probably make people hate this character as much as prepatch Diddy and Luigi if that was inescapable.

After messing with it, it definitely seems 100% diable so that WT doesn't connect after the 2nd dABK. Not to mention fair 1 is 100% diable as well. It's going to have to make us really mix combos up against high level players since they'll probably know (or at least they should) how to Di our stuff. Though Bayonetta is going to completely cheese newer players which eh, I'm okay with .

Practically all of the combos can be escaped but you can switch sides with alternative combos pretty well. Another good thing is that Bayonetta is very safe even if someone escapes her combos, unless she dABKs into the abyss of course.

 

[Sonicninja115]

When you say Fair1 into Bair, are you fast falling it then following up? I know Fair1 combos into Smashes if you do that, but I can't seem to FF it.

I do Fair 1, DI forward and then Bair. I only get the weak hit though, and the timing/hit is pretty specific.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Does Bayonetta have any solid followups out of horizontal hits like nair? Most of her combos seen very vertical.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Does Bayonetta have any solid followups out of horizontal hits like nair? Most of her combos seen very vertical.

Apparently it does. There seems to be a hitbox at the top of Nair, and the weak hit might combo well. It is a very strange move.

 

[Flamegeyser]

Dtilt -> utilt -> SH fair 1 -> WT -> jump -> dABK -> dABK -> WT
Pretty much a zero to death, second hit of fair would also work too.

I'm havin' trouble getting this to work. The problem comes with the two dABK's, I can't get it to be true, suggestions?

 

[Planty]

I'm sorry if this has been brought up, but I saw a combo where a Bayonetta carried a character to the blastzone with Fair 1 to Fair 2 and repeat. Is this escapable? If so, how?

 

[Flamegeyser]

I'm sorry if this has been brought up, but I saw a combo where a Bayonetta carried a character to the blastzone with Fair 1 to Fair 2 and repeat. Is this escapable? If so, how?

Yeah, it's very escapable through DI down and away.

 

[DeadLuckChris]

I'm havin' trouble getting this to work. The problem comes with the two dABK's, I can't get it to be true, suggestions?

Wish i could help but i also have some problems connecting the first dABK

 

[Tomo009]

It's theoretically not, if you can land the fair1 sweet spot every single time, but good luck with that.

For people confused about the DIability of fair1, it has a sweet spot with set knockback and a sourspot that knocks horizontally with low KBG (you can check this easily at 999% in training mode)

fair1 sweet spot > thing followups are totally legitimate and in most combos, not that difficult. Getting that fair1 repeated thing to true combo though... yeah that's incredibly hard even if they don't mix up DI. It theoretically works, though.

 

[Zult]

Is WT the counter or the Up B?

 

[Lochy]

Is WT the counter or the Up B?

Well that depends if by WT you mean Witch Time, that is the counter. Witch TWIST is the up b.

 

[Zult]

Well that depends if by WT you mean Witch Time, that is the counter. Witch TWIST is the up b.

Ok thanks. I was like "whaaat witch time in the middle of a combo?"

 

[Lochy]

Ok thanks. I was like "whaaat witch time in the middle of a combo?"

Yeah its confusing because both are abbreviated WT. I guess its context sensitive

 

[Sonicninja115]

It's theoretically not, if you can land the fair1 sweet spot every single time, but good luck with that.

For people confused about the DIability of fair1, it has a sweet spot with set knockback and a sourspot that knocks horizontally with low KBG (you can check this easily at 999% in training mode)

fair1 sweet spot > thing followups are totally legitimate and in most combos, not that difficult. Getting that fair1 repeated thing to true combo though... yeah that's incredibly hard even if they don't mix up DI. It theoretically works, though.

Fair 2 combos though right? and I haven't seen anyone DI it...

Is WT the counter or the Up B?

I believe the abbreviations that are up in the air ATM is...

Time/Twist
WTi/WTw
Wtime/Wtwist

 

[Lochy]

Fair 2 combos though right? and I haven't seen anyone DI it...

I believe the abbreviations that are up in the air ATM is...

Time/Twist
WTi/WTw
Wtime/Wtwist

Yes Fair 2 combos. Actually sometimes you need to use to continue a combo.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

Yes Fair 2 combos. Actually sometimes you need to use to continue a combo.

No it doesn't. fAir 1 combos with sweet spot and fAir 2 can be DI'd with down and away.

 

[Flamegeyser]

The differentiation on the WT's really helped me. I couldn't understand why only sometimes I could follow up but now I'm much more deadly.
To contribute, however, here's a combo(which may or may not have been listed already)
From 30-70% or so
Dtilt->SHfair->WT(Long)->ABK->WT(short)->Fair1->ABK->Uair/bair.
I got it to work on Cloud from 40%, and the bair finisher makes it do 52%, but it's a bit strict. You gotta do the long WT in order for there to be enough height for the 2nd WT, but you also gotta ABK immediately after the WT, or else they'll fall too far. Pretty hype combo, although it can probably be DI'd out of.

EDIT: Also it seems that you have to be relatively close to them to land the fair after the Dtilt.

EDIT 2: Also for some reason the final ABK just plain won't work sometimes, I have no idea why. Also, this combo can work below 30% on the right characters, I got all but the final ABK to work on Lucina at 0%

 

[Ijuka]

It's theoretically not, if you can land the fair1 sweet spot every single time, but good luck with that.

For people confused about the DIability of fair1, it has a sweet spot with set knockback and a sourspot that knocks horizontally with low KBG (you can check this easily at 999% in training mode)

fair1 sweet spot > thing followups are totally legitimate and in most combos, not that difficult. Getting that fair1 repeated thing to true combo though... yeah that's incredibly hard even if they don't mix up DI. It theoretically works, though.

fair 1 isn't the problem as it obviously leads into fair 2 but you can escape after fair 2 every single time so I don't understand why that "juggle" is even being discussed.

For dABK -> dABK, hold forward and do the motion for the second one extremely fast

Flamegeyser Yeah, the second ABK sometimes doesn't seem to work with combos involving both double jumps and fairs in between the two ABKs. But still, I've done the same exact combo many times and the second ABK came out like 50% of the time, I have no idea what exactly it is. Perhaps something to do whether you buffer the second jump or not or something? It's strange, either way.

Anyway, your combo shouldn't even be done with a fair before the final ABK because it can sourspot and ruin the combo while the ABK is always guaranteed and will even combo into uair. And still, doing the fair -> up B -> double jump ABK -> dABK -> up B just plain kills so it seems a little wasteful to go for an uair combo - both can be DI'd out from anyway but if the opponent's not DI-ing away when you land the dABK you just kill them for free. Of course when you get to the point where the uair combo kills as well it becomes just a case of guessing how they are going to DI and it also depends on the character what you're able to accomplish vs down-away DI on up B(although to be honest, follow-ups that don't work on this DI aren't relevant)

4 low % death combos off the top in friendlies today, yahhoo.

 

[Conradical]

I found this combo that did 52% damage from 0% and I was wondering if this was the most optimal combo at 0%. Is this the most optimal combo in terms of feasibility and damage? Here's a video of it:

 

[Lochy]

No it doesn't. fAir 1 combos with sweet spot and fAir 2 can be DI'd with down and away.

My mistake. I thought I remember fair 2 putting the enemy closer to you. I guess I was wrong.

 

[Conn1496]

This is the kinda thing it's probably best to test yourself in Training, but...

-just from my recommendation:
(Launcher of choice - Personally, I prefer D-tilt since it's true.), F-air 1, Side-B, Reverse Up-B, [jump anywhere between here-] F-air1, Side-B, [-and here] Up-B, (Any finisher, usually U-air, though it's not true this early - but holding it can force and extra hit if they try to dodge though.) can be true if performed well at most %s.

Other than that, Bayo feels like a very precise, knowledge-based character, so you kinda have to go with what you're handed at the time. The most insane (True!) combo I've managed personally is:
F-air1/2/(Fast Fall)3, F-air1, Side-B, Reverse Up-B, (Jump here.) F-air1, Side-B down, Reverse Up-B, U-air. -but as you can expect, it was a complete fluke and matter of circumstance.

Again, toy around with what combos in training and get a feel for what will work, then create combos on the fly based on the opportunities given. 0% combos often require insane precision to be true, so don't fret too much about nailing all the hits at this low, IMO.

 

[Skinutski]

Dtilt, Fair, WT, dABK, dABK, WT has gotten me plenty of silly <30 sec rounds. Stupidly simple, stupidly effective. This will murder your average FG contender. I'm almost frustrated that all the fancy overly long character specific combos I created were all invalidated at once by this.

It does become risky to attempt at the 30 - 40% point or so.

 

[ParanoidDrone]

fair 1 isn't the problem as it obviously leads into fair 2 but you can escape after fair 2 every single time so I don't understand why that "juggle" is even being discussed.

For dABK -> dABK, hold forward and do the motion for the second one extremely fast

Flamegeyser Yeah, the second ABK sometimes doesn't seem to work with combos involving both double jumps and fairs in between the two ABKs. But still, I've done the same exact combo many times and the second ABK came out like 50% of the time, I have no idea what exactly it is. Perhaps something to do whether you buffer the second jump or not or something? It's strange, either way.

Anyway, your combo shouldn't even be done with a fair before the final ABK because it can sourspot and ruin the combo while the ABK is always guaranteed and will even combo into uair. And still, doing the fair -> up B -> double jump ABK -> dABK -> up B just plain kills so it seems a little wasteful to go for an uair combo - both can be DI'd out from anyway but if the opponent's not DI-ing away when you land the dABK you just kill them for free. Of course when you get to the point where the uair combo kills as well it becomes just a case of guessing how they are going to DI and it also depends on the character what you're able to accomplish vs down-away DI on up B(although to be honest, follow-ups that don't work on this DI aren't relevant)

4 low % death combos off the top in friendlies today, yahhoo.

From my own personal testing/experimentaion, I believe you have to use your second ABK within roughly a second. It might be a bit more, but I lack the tools to do precise frame counts so a second is my best guess.

I figured this out when I couldn't get dABK > fair 12 > Twist > ABK to work, but dABK > fair 1 > Twist > ABK worked consistently. Then I was slow on the inputs one time and the second ABK still didn't come out. Hence my guess.

 

[Sonicninja115]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1eUdjj2YV0
Utilt combos.

 

[Conn1496]

Just wondered about these since I'd had a lot of luck with them. A lot of the time you can catch people off guard with F-tilt 1 and Jab 1/3, usually letting you grab confirm off them or use a combo starter. There's a similar thing with FF F-air 1, but since that leads to actual combos and better options, I'll ignore it for this thread's sake. That's a whole other beast entirely.

They're probably slightly worse than Bowser's Jab 1 for confirming off, if anyone has experience with those, so a lot of characters can jump out of it, but they still offer Bayo more to work with. If your opponent is bad, you can Jab 3 into Jab 3 until the cows come home and they just won't know what to do about it, but I find the most useful of the 3 is F-tilt 1, since it hits at a generally better angle and with more hitstun. -which is especially notable near the edge.

Just wondering more than anything if anyone else uses these - especially F-tilt 1, since its a really underrated move from what I see. If your opponent tries to jump away you have plenty of responses at hand (Or giant fist in the case of a running U-smash.). Hell, if you time it right, you can steal their jump with F-tilt 2 and go from there. Though my personal favourite will always be F-tilt 1 into D-smash at the ledge, since your opponent has to be super careful about recovering in this case.

Do keep in mind, there are a few moves that can beat this out, so don't rely on it, but as a mix-up it works wonders. Again, any of you familiar with Bowser's Jab1 will be right at home with any of these!

 

[Ijuka]

I've been messing around with combos and follow ups with the opponent DI-ing. It obviously is a lot harder. However, here is a death combo vs an opponent who DI's down-away that works at least vs ZSS and likely on many others as well, depending on %:

The swag points are pretty high if you land this during a streamed tournament match.

 

[ElMoro995]

So if we know our opponent will DI down and away, the best followup from WT1 is jump->dABK, am I right? If we miss the dABK, there's a chance that this will result in an SD because we'll only have a WT2 to come back on stage

 

[Flamegeyser]

So sometimes when I do a really long combo involving an ABK after the 2nd Witch Twist it just plain doesn't work, even if I've only used one ABK before it. Is this a glitch or just something I'm missing, because it's really inconsistent and it could extend my combos to the limit.

 

[pikazz]

So sometimes when I do a really long combo involving an ABK after the 2nd Witch Twist it just plain doesn't work, even if I've only used one ABK before it. Is this a glitch or just something I'm missing, because it's really inconsistent and it could extend my combos to the limit.

thats because of "Good DI" and/or too high %/Rage. when that happens its better to get a easier kill (like WT to kill)

 

[Flamegeyser]

thats because of "Good DI" and/or too high %/Rage. when that happens its better to get a easier kill (like WT to kill)

No, when I say "doesn't work" I mean "won't activate". Like, I can mash the input, and the second kick won't come out. I've tried it several times, and it appears to work at random.

 

[Ijuka]

Currently it seems like ABKs need to be used pretty close to each other, otherwise the second one will not come out. I'm not sure about the exact time you have available.