Bayonetta Combo & Followup Thread! [WIP]

[Flamegeyser]

Currently it seems like ABKs need to be used pretty close to each other, otherwise the second one will not come out. I'm not sure about the exact time you have available.

Dtilt->SHfair->WT(Long)->ABK->WT(short)->Fair1->ABK->Uair/bair.
it was in that combo, the second ABK didn't always work, but it's probably okay, since I've heard that Fair1 isn't a good followup to the second WT. So that's what it is, timing, huh? That's so weird.

 

[Zac13]

I did not find this, nor did I check if this was previously posted, but:
Fair 1 > Fair1 > Fair 1 > Fair 1 > Fair1 > Fair 1 >

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EwJRyns4T2Y

 

[Sonicninja115]

Dtilt->SHfair->WT(Long)->ABK->WT(short)->Fair1->ABK->Uair/bair.
it was in that combo, the second ABK didn't always work, but it's probably okay, since I've heard that Fair1 isn't a good followup to the second WT. So that's what it is, timing, huh? That's so weird.

Apparently you need to use the second ABK within a second of using the first. Someone did a preliminary test and that was what he found.

 

[Squiiidzoid]

Please read what I wrote on upthrow upair:

Btw airdodge and spotdodge bat within are both frame 1 and invincible on I think frame 3, and rolls are I think bat within on frames 3-5. Also here's some data and stuff:

Jumping offstage and holding upair and nair for the bullet arts extension is amazing for gimping recoveries.
Also, when the opponent is descending onstage after being launched up, you can jump up and hold upair, which turns what would be a 50/50 of airdodging or being hit for any other character, into a guaranteed hit/frametrap, because if they airdodge upair still hits them, and if they wait then upaid still hits them. Upair also has amazing range and priority, with a massive hitbox all around you. Being able to do this means that at pretty much any % you can do an upthrow > hold upair, and you can follow up with another aerial afterwards. This esentially gives her a great combo throw, and this should be used as much as possible in the neutral because of how powerful grabs are in this game. It also kills Mario on FD at 125% with no rage if you land the first hit of upair. And here are my notes for dealing with Pikmin:

Bat within makes all pikmin fall off you instantly. Bat within is triggered by latched pikmin hitting you.
Witch time can be triggered by latched pikmin hitting you, but you must be close enough to olimar for the witch time hitbox to hit him(it extends a bit beyond the purple aura) just like with other projectiles.
Shorthop hold upair is good for getting rid of most pikmin on you, but can miss some on your head.
Doing full heel slide gets rid of all pikmin on you and kills retreating ones.
Dtilt is good for getting rid of pikmin on your lower half and killing retreating ones.
Uptilt is good for getting rid of pikmin on your front and upper half, and killing incoming ones.
All bullet arts and all other moves are pretty much useless.
Be wary that while pikmin are on you they constantly cause hitstun, essentially giving you terrible framedata on everything you do. This can mess up combos and timings, and make you much more punishable.

I was just getting the framedata from kuroganehammer http://www.kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Bayonetta where both spotdodge and airdodge have bat within within frames 1-4. And yea, the pikmin stuff is crazily good, not only can you just time an airdodge or spotdodge to trigger bat within and get all pikmin off you, you can also use it to trigger witch time which is kinda broken lol. And the thing with upthrow hold upair thing is crazily good too, it gives her a great combo throw which is amazing in this game, and it kills mario at 125% on FD (no rage, so in an actual match it's more like 90-100%, and even earlier for lighter characters like sheik or kirby). Also please add all this data I'm giving you to the OP(you may want to edit it go make it more compact though, so it doesn't take up too much space).

The strong hitbox kills, but the weak hitbox still does good damage, and knocks them up and away a short distance, letting you pretty much repeatedly combo upairs again and again until they get knocked offstage, and then you're in the perfect spot for an edgeguard. And when the strong hit doesn't kill it also combos into more upairs, as it hits them mostly straight up. And when they're low-ish to the ground and try to airdodge through you, you can easily fastfall and punish with a regrab or an upsmash. And if they doublejump or use a special to get away, you can easily folllow it and punish, and they just put themself in an even worse spot. And I tested even on lvl 9 marios with their broken ability to frame perfectly airdodge everything they can't escape this lol. So basically whatever hits is great for you.

 

[Shadow the Past]

After doing a second Witch Twist near the top blastzone, is it better to fair or upair to try and net the kill? I'm inclined to believe upair is better since they can fall out of the fair 123 combo, but wasn't positive.

 

[Sonicninja115]

After doing a second Witch Twist near the top blastzone, is it better to fair or upair to try and net the kill? I'm inclined to believe upair is better since they can fall out of the fair 123 combo, but wasn't positive.

Optimally, you want to do ABK-Uair. but Uair is usually better.

 

[DragonBall_Zack]

I was trying out a combo/string earlier in training mode. Haven't seen anyone mention it/test it but if it has already been covered then someone let me know please haha.

It was Up-Tilt (Both hits) > Reverse Up-Air > ABK > ABK > Up-Air. It killed Sheik at 60%70% on the floor of Battlefield and killed at 45% at the top platform. It also killed at around 50%-60% on the lower platforms of Battlefield.

I also tested it against Rosalina on the floor of Battlefield and seemed to kill at 50%60% and against Bowser at 80%. I'm going to test it against a few people tomorrow.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I was trying out a combo/string earlier in training mode. Haven't seen anyone mention it/test it but if it has already been covered then someone let me know please haha.

It was Up-Tilt (Both hits) > Reverse Up-Air > ABK > ABK > Up-Air. It killed Sheik at 60%70% on the floor of Battlefield and killed at 45% at the top platform. It also killed at around 50%-60% on the lower platforms of Battlefield.

I also tested it against Rosalina on the floor of Battlefield and seemed to kill at 50%60% and against Bowser at 80%. I'm going to test it against a few people tomorrow.

I was testing RAR Uair earlier. It seems really reliable and good.

Also, Nair true combos into ABK, setting up for easy death combos. Dtilt-Utilt-Nair raises the starting point of the combo, making it much easier.

 

[Shadow the Past]

Optimally, you want to do ABK-Uair. but Uair is usually better.

ABK seems less consistent as it relies more on their percent/positioning/DI than a second WTw.

 

[Sonicninja115]

ABK seems less consistent as it relies more on their percent/positioning/DI than a second WTw.

After the second Twist, it is really easy to get the ABK, as the opponent goes nowhere. If the opponent DI's corectly, Uair is extremely hard to get, and in that case you need to go for Fair, which might not kill. ABK, however, will always connect regardless of DI. and the Uair is really easy to get and trues no matter what for a good percent range.

The combo would be, Dtilt-Twist-Abk-twist-ABK-Uair. It works to do a Twist as a finisher, but this one seems a bit more reliable for killing.

 

[Shadow the Past]

After the second Twist, it is really easy to get the ABK, as the opponent goes nowhere. If the opponent DI's corectly, Uair is extremely hard to get, and in that case you need to go for Fair, which might not kill. ABK, however, will always connect regardless of DI. and the Uair is really easy to get and trues no matter what for a good percent range.

The combo would be, Dtilt-Twist-Abk-twist-ABK-Uair. It works to do a Twist as a finisher, but this one seems a bit more reliable for killing.

I see. I didn't understand how the second WT differed until recently so I haven't properly explored how it affects follow-ups like ABK.

 

[Otterz]

I've seen a lot of WT1>Fair recently (notably Salem vs Nairo) and I'm trying to figure it out. Would it be a frame ~4 input similar to WT1>WT2?

 

[Zult]

Sorry if this has been posted before. Couldn't find it anywhere. But am I the only one who does this?

Also, where can I go to find Bayonetta set ups? Seems like this thread is only about guaranteed combos.

 

[Tobi_Whatever]

I've seen a lot of WT1>Fair recently (notably Salem vs Nairo) and I'm trying to figure it out. Would it be a frame ~4 input similar to WT1>WT2?

I'm pretty sure you need to jump to make the fAir connect. The window isn't that hard to hit.

 

[Jaxas]

Hey guys, sorry for not actually updating when I thought I'd be able to before.
Anyways, there's a pretty significant amount of new data in the OP now, and I'm starting the redesign on how the thread works in the first place - as I mentioned before, it's gonna be split into Combo Starters (Launchers), Combo Fillers (Damage/Carriers), and Combo Finishers (Kill/Damage Options at the end).

If someone wouldn't mind helping me lab this stuff tomorrow that'd be amazing, but for now I'm headed off to bed.

 

[ZafKiel]

This may be a super silly question and it may be out of place so I apologize in advance.

How do you angle Bayonetta's Side B (while airborne) downward? I've tried doing Side B then down but it ends up going upward. It looks like a decent approach option because you can lead into Fair 1 or the entire Fair string.

 

[Shadow the Past]

This may be a super silly question and it may be out of place so I apologize in advance.

How do you angle Bayonetta's Side B (while airborne) downward? I've tried doing Side B then down but it ends up going upward. It looks like a decent approach option because you can lead into Fair 1 or the entire Fair string.

It's a quarter circle forward input, like Hadouken. So hit down, then hit sideb.

 

[Rezialn]

This may be a super silly question and it may be out of place so I apologize in advance.

How do you angle Bayonetta's Side B (while airborne) downward? I've tried doing Side B then down but it ends up going upward. It looks like a decent approach option because you can lead into Fair 1 or the entire Fair string.

People will tell you it's quarter circle forward but that's not entirely accurate. You just have to press down before you side+b. There may be more comfortable ways for you to do this than quarter circle. Up to you.

 

[Jaxas]

It seems to be "If you're fastfalling and hit SideB, you get the dABK".
You don't seem to be able to do the dABK at any point you can't fastfall (unless I'm just bad, which is entirely possible).
But yeah, when you can fastfall if you do the Hadouken input (Down, DownRight, Right) then you can get it pretty reliably.

 

[Deaga]

This may be a super silly question and it may be out of place so I apologize in advance.

How do you angle Bayonetta's Side B (while airborne) downward? I've tried doing Side B then down but it ends up going upward. It looks like a decent approach option because you can lead into Fair 1 or the entire Fair string.

If you're having trouble with the Hadouken input, you can "cheat" your way to a Dive Kick by setting the C-Stick to Special. Then you can just press down on the Control Stick and to the side on the C-Stick and do the Dive kick VERY easily. I'm doing that, as I mess up the manual input pretty often and just stale Witch Time instead. ;-;

 

[Sonicninja115]

If you're having trouble with the Hadouken input, you can "cheat" your way to a Dive Kick by setting the C-Stick to Special. Then you can just press down on the Control Stick and to the side on the C-Stick and do the Dive kick VERY easily. I'm doing that, as I mess up the manual input pretty often and just stale Witch Time instead. ;-;

You also have to remember that if you press it in this direction then Time will come out. It has to be directly to the side.

 

[pikazz]

appearently, you can footstool to WT/UpB on some charcters, like DK in air

 

[ParanoidDrone]

Apparently you need to use the second ABK within a second of using the first. Someone did a preliminary test and that was what he found.

That was possibly me; I've definitely posted about it several times.

Jaxas when you get around to doing the combo fillers portion of the OP, would it be possible to include notes on how much DI affects each filler? Bayonetta's combos seem to vary a lot based on how the opponent DIs and how she reacts to said DI, and knowing what options need to be covered sounds important. Furthermore, if one is interested in playing it safe, it would be useful to know which (if any) combos are the least susceptible to DI mixups.

 

[Grey_]

I was looking over Bayonetta's kurogane data and found something that might be worth testing. Her second WT connects the final hit with an angle of 0º, and BKB/KBG of 30 (first WT's final hit is at 30º and BKB/KBG 50/105). So, since it can be hard to follow up with the first WT because DI or KBG can put the opponent out of reach, I'm thinking that maybe we can use the first WT as a bait/movement/whatever, but only try connecting with the second WT for a guaranteed followup due its knockback properties. So maybe something like utilt->WT->jump and bait airdodge->WT->uair. I'll trying testing some things out when I get the time, but if it actually works I can see it being a useful tool if you're having trouble getting a kill. Thoughts?

 

[HuntarBarbarian]

Can we just take a minute to talk about how good of a combo move dABK is? I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but dABK -> fAir -> uABK -> uAir is actually a thing that can kill ZSS at 115% while doing a total of 26%. Also, dABK -> WTwist -> uABK -> uAir kills at 90% and does 30% damage. Both of these are true, but may be tight with DI. Seeing as we can sort of approach with nAir, dABK is probably a good mix-up for netting that kill somewhat early.

 

[Sonicninja115]

Can we just take a minute to talk about how good of a combo move dABK is? I don't know if this has been mentioned already, but dABK -> fAir -> uABK -> uAir is actually a thing that can kill ZSS at 115% while doing a total of 26%. Also, dABK -> WTwist -> uABK -> uAir kills at 90% and does 30% damage. Both of these are true, but may be tight with DI. Seeing as we can sort of approach with nAir, dABK is probably a good mix-up for netting that kill somewhat early.

DiveKick is great for combo starting and possibly the best as it isn't as easily DI'ed (most of the time.)

 

[ZafKiel]

People will tell you it's quarter circle forward but that's not entirely accurate. You just have to press down before you side+b. There may be more comfortable ways for you to do this than quarter circle. Up to you.

I see, I didn't even think to do that. I assumed it was like Fox/Falco's Up B where you input the command then the direction. Thanks to everyone for the help!

 

[Zult]

"Witch Twist will only combo if you do NOT use the Bullet Arts (held) version of the move. If you use it and see any purple at all, you did the BA version!" False. You need to hold B at lower percents or the up b, abk x2, bair combo doesn't work.

 

[pikazz]

"Witch Twist will only combo if you do NOT use the Bullet Arts (held) version of the move. If you use it and see any purple at all, you did the BA version!" False. You need to hold B at lower percents or the up b, abk x2, bair combo doesn't work.

thats when you will combo Witch Twist to DJ Witch Twist. otherwise you will fail.

Holding B on low % and follow up with ABK is true and will give you more damage. but its all about the timing if you dont hold B otherwise

 

[Ghostbone]

"Witch Twist will only combo if you do NOT use the Bullet Arts (held) version of the move. If you use it and see any purple at all, you did the BA version!" False. You need to hold B at lower percents or the up b, abk x2, bair combo doesn't work.

You don't need to hold it, you just have to wait slightly.

If you hold it then you can only cover specific DI (no DI mostly), if you just wait and react you can combo them a lot more often.

 

[Squiiidzoid]

hey, I just wanted to say some stuff i found. Everyone always gives dash attack a bad rap, but from my testing on mario, it seems to have a lot of combo potential. From 0-80%, on the ground it combos into Heel Slide kick. At the ledge from 0-110% it combos into uABK. These are great combo starters. Also from 0-60% it combos dash attacks repeatedly into eachother, and ending with these other combos. Also combos into charged bullet climax. At the ledge from about 0-90%, it practically combos into dair spike. The angle it sends them is a perfect setup for dair spike at pretty much any %. The dair spike hitbox is the gun on the end of her foot. Combos from dash attack can also be done at higher %s, by using uABK to reach them but not hit them, for movement, and then comboing into an aerial or witch twist.

 

[Megamang]

I feel you might be using the word combo when you mean sets up. How are you testing this?

 

[Sonicninja115]

I feel you might be using the word combo when you mean sets up. How are you testing this?

At the very least it looks like a good set-up. Also, he is part of the Skype group, and is the one posting their findings, so hopefully this is legit.

 

[Tinkady]

You don't need to hold it, you just have to wait slightly.

If you hold it then you can only cover specific DI (no DI mostly), if you just wait and react you can combo them a lot more often.

What sorts of reactionary adjustments should I be making on the fly? What should I be looking for (i.e. enemy is drifting left, enemy is at a certain angle, etc)?

 

[Megamang]

To me it seems like they can pop out at different angles based on SDI. This has me adjusting by changing uABK to Divekick or vice versa. Im sure there are more, but this is a basic example I have seen so far.

 

[Sonicninja115]

2 newish maybe new combos.
Dtilt-Nair-Combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWf_Jdt-tJo
Uair-(Bair-ABK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4CBKcfdslg

 

[ElMoro995]

2 newish maybe new combos.
Dtilt-Nair-Combo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWf_Jdt-tJo
Uair-(Bair-ABK)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4CBKcfdslg

I have seen the first combo in some Salem's tournament matches, while for the second I've been doing uair-bair-uair-bair-abk-stuff in training mode, but in real matches a landing uair is hard af to pull off, so idk how DI will ruin that combo

 

[Megamang]

Watching Ranai's stream, im seeing an awful lot of fair 1 -> uair to start strings. It doesn't always connect, but when it does it starts a really nice high damage string. It is also much less risky than fair -> witch twist, as it leaves you in a solid trap situation even if they escape.

These were in Bayonetta dittos.

 

[Sonicninja115]

I have seen the first combo in some Salem's tournament matches, while for the second I've been doing uair-bair-uair-bair-abk-stuff in training mode, but in real matches a landing uair is hard af to pull off, so idk how DI will ruin that combo

The Bair-ABK is the combo I wanted to showcase, the Uair was there as a set-up. Utilt-Bair-ABK probably works as well as just Bair-ABK. DI shouldn't affect it horrendously, but DI away at higher percents definitely negates it.

 

[BakaDaNaa]

How do you connect two Up Bs with Bayonetta? I saw a lot of people doing it but I can't seem to do it myself (at least not consistently), the jump animation is too long and it messes up the combo, so I was wondering if there was a trick to it.