Based on the special edition box, the only remaining characters are Ken + one final newcomer.

[keleyeemoh]

This whole thing is silly. Is it possible that it's true? Yeah, sure. But it's art that hasn't been confirmed to be real, and it's all based on "patterns." I've noticed that this community bases things on patterns a lot, and it's often wrong. It's the reason the Isabelle reveal was so controversial, because it didn't contain the level of hype as the reveals up to that point. Also, remember the trailer death theory? Yeah...

I guess all I'm saying is that this doesn't confirm or deconfirm anything. Don't believe anything until you see it.

 

[Arthur97]

But in this case, there straight up is a pattern, like the sort of pattern they use to teach a pattern at school.

It's clearly alternating 9 by 9

Although it's possible that on the bottom of each side they only have 1 empty slot, and the only missing character is Isabelle. But there is room for 1 unique character and 1 echo in addition to Isabelle based on the actual present pattern

There may be a pattern, but people love to read into them. A lot. In any case, the part I am disputing is mostly the Ken thing. Why is he suddenly a front runner? Why is the poster just saying Ken with no evidence to say it's Ken and not someone else?

Agreed. Ryu is already weird enough to balance and also Shoryuken is actually just dumb. Having a second one running around would just be a headache for everyone, devs and players alike. Don't know why so many people think he's a lock just because Richter exists. Not saying he won't be in, but...why

Shadow still seems like the better choice for another third party echo especially since he's been oddly absent as an assist.

This whole thing is silly. Is it possible that it's true? Yeah, sure. But it's art that hasn't been confirmed to be real, and it's all based on "patterns." I've noticed that this community bases things on patterns a lot, and it's often wrong. It's the reason the Isabelle reveal was so controversial, because it didn't contain the level of hype as the reveals up to that point. Also, remember the trailer death theory? Yeah...

I guess all I'm saying is that this doesn't confirm or deconfirm anything. Don't believe anything until you see it.

Try being around the Fire Emblem Heroes fanbase as they try to pick apart patterns for legendary heroes that usually get crushed.

 

[NintenRob]

and both got music.

was revealed at the same time as and they got their music.

was revealed after and following the 1 music per a series, she didn't get her's.

It's probably Ken, but there's evidence supporting it not being him as well since no other Street Fighter character was introduced as a Newcomer to take the Street Fighter music spot when it was done.

The Metroid, Mario and Fire Emblem song have nothing to do with and the Mario one especially was revealed at a completely different time.

And we should wait until we get the next music, because Isabelle's trailer had no new remixes.

 

[0007]

Agreed. Ryu is already weird enough to balance and also Shoryuken is actually just dumb. Having a second one running around would just be a headache for everyone, devs and players alike.

Everything you just said here is baffling. Ryu isn't weird to balance at all, he's a decent character that hasn't had any outstanding performances in tournament play. Also, adding an Echo of Ryu wouldn't really change much? If they both have very similar moves then you're really just getting a skin. Ken won't play much different than Ryu in Smash if he gets in, aside from maybe getting th3 phire and Shippuu Jinrai Kyaku for his Final Smash.

and both got music.

Nope, the FE remix and Mario remix were both added way later than their reveal trailers and also had nothing to do with their characters.

 

[VexTheHex]

The Metroid, Mario and Fire Emblem song have nothing to do with and the Mario one especially was revealed at a completely different time.

And we should wait until we get the next music, because Isabelle's trailer had no new remixes.

Music - 8/21 and Fighter Video 8/15
Music - 6/19 and Fighter Video 6/14
Music - 6/12 and Fighter Video 6/13

They are all... very close together. If Ken was planned, wouldn't they stall that week with say Wii Fit or Duck Hunt and not use up Street Fighter?

 

[Fell God]

Shadow still seems like the better choice for another third party echo especially since he's been oddly absent as an assist.

You see, Shadow makes sense. People actually asked for Shadow in the past, granted those people were either dismissed entirely or insulted, but there was support nonetheless. Nobody ever asked for Ken, nobody ever wanted Ken. It just seems like Fire Ryu is only even being given thought because echo fighters exist. Again, is not really against Ken, but I'm just wondering why people even want him at all. Echo fighters, to me, seem like a way to add beloved and/or requested characters that never stood a chance by just giving them an existing playstyle, rather than to needlessly shoehorn in characters that were never really wanted in the first place.

Try being around the Fire Emblem Heroes fanbase as they try to pick apart patterns for legendary heroes that usually get crushed.

Also I remember when people thought Legendary Eliwood would be a thing hahahaha

Everything you just said here is baffling. Ryu isn't weird to balance at all, he's a decent character that hasn't had any outstanding performances in tournament play. Also, adding an Echo of Ryu wouldn't really change much? If they both have very similar moves then you're really just getting a skin. Ken won't play much different than Ryu in Smash if he gets in, aside from maybe getting th3 phire and Shippuu Jinrai Kyaku for his Final Smash.

Not sure what about that is baffling, but a character like Ryu would definitely not be easy to work out in Smash, he plays (fittingly) like a Street Fighter character (mostly). Look at what we already have, he's kinda jank in 4 (like a lot of characters, good and bad so maybe it's just 4). I mean, I certainly don't think it would be easy to work with when it's just hard to balance games in general, but probably harder when it's a character with unique inputs and such. And also I never said Ryu won tournaments, I just said Shoryuken is dumb, which it is, it's no Witch Twist or Witch Time or...well Bayonetta in general, but it is pretty obnoxious. Plus, echo fighters still have to be balanced at least a little differently than their origin character.

 

[NintenRob]

There may be a pattern, but people love to read into them. A lot. In any case, the part I am disputing is mostly the Ken thing. Why is he suddenly a front runner? Why is the poster just saying Ken with no evidence to say it's Ken and not someone else?

It's based on where the pattern is disrupted. At on spot it seems there's only 8 characters instead of 9, Ryu is one of those characters. But there are other possible characters to get echoes are

ultshulk:

Or they decided to leave a blank space on both sides and Isabelle is the only character they kept hidden. Or maybe this is just how it's going to look.

 

[0007]

Music - 8/21 and Fighter Video 8/15
Music - 6/19 and Fighter Video 6/14
Music - 6/12 and Fighter Video 6/13

They are all... very close together. If Ken was planned, wouldn't they stall that week with say Wii Fit or Duck Hunt and not use up Street Fighter?

Fighter videos are actually posted to the site at the same time they're revealed... So Chrom's fighter video was 8/8, not 8/15.

 

[NintenRob]

Music - 8/21 and Fighter Video 8/15
Music - 6/19 and Fighter Video 6/14
Music - 6/12 and Fighter Video 6/13

They are all... very close together. If Ken was planned, wouldn't they stall that week with say Wii Fit or Duck Hunt and not use up Street Fighter?

The Mario series didn't get music until 9/4/2018

Where are you getting those Daisy dates?

 

[Jigglymaster]

the part I am disputing is mostly the Ken thing. Why is he suddenly a front runner? Why is the poster just saying Ken with no evidence to say it's Ken and not someone else?

Along with what Mr. Nintendo said. Vergeben is a credible leaker who's gotten Ridley, Snake, ICs, Simon, and Isabelle correct, has also said that Ken will be an echo fighter of Ryu.

It's hard to see it as just a coincidence that Ryu is amongst the 8 possible characters that are set up to get an echo when he was also rumored by the most credible leaker there currently is.

I bet Maximillian D00d is ecstatic that he's getting exactly what he wants. Megaman, Cloud, Bayonetta, and now Ken. It's like he's picking the roster xD

 

[Arthur97]

You see, Shadow makes sense. People actually asked for Shadow in the past, granted those people were either dismissed entirely or insulted, but there was support nonetheless. Nobody ever asked for Ken, nobody ever wanted Ken. It just seems like Fire Ryu is only even being given thought because echo fighters exist. Again, is not really against Ken, but I'm just wondering why people even want him at all. Echo fighters, to me, seem like a way to add beloved and/or requested characters that never stood a chance by just giving them an existing playstyle, rather than to needlessly shoehorn in characters that were never really wanted in the first place.




Also I remember when people thought Legendary Eliwood would be a thing hahahaha

Admittedly, I would probably play Ken more than Ryu.

Along with what Mr. Nintendo said. Vergeben is a credible leaker who's gotten Ridley, Snake, ICs, Simon, and Isabelle correct, has also said that Ken will be an echo fighter of Ryu.

It's hard to see it as just a coincidence that Ryu is amongst the 8 possible characters that are set up to get an echo when he was also rumored by the most credible leaker there currently is.

Leaks should be treated as false until proven correct. Also, what about Daisy and Chrom? K. Rool?

It's based on where the pattern is disrupted. At on spot it seems there's only 8 characters instead of 9, Ryu is one of those characters. But there are other possible characters to get echoes are

ultshulk:

Or they decided to leave a blank space on both sides and Isabelle is the only character they kept hidden. Or maybe this is just how it's going to look.

Could be Medusa for all we know given Sakurai's in charge here. And, yes, there could just be an empty spot that they couldn't fill..

 

[VexTheHex]

Fighter videos are actually posted to the site at the same time they're revealed... So Chrom's fighter video was 8/8, not 8/15.

The Mario series didn't get music until 9/4/2018

Where are you getting those Daisy dates?

Based on the dates in the blog. https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html?pageCount=9 (Daisy) and https://www.smashbros.com/en_US/blog/index.html?pageCount=3 (Chrom)

Oh whoops. For Daisy I was using Splatoon's song. WHOOPS.

So I guess music doesn't have to line up exactly with them. Still seems like one song per a series though. So ya, Ken is probably going to happen being one of the original fighting game echoes.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Leaks should be treated as false until proven correct.

.... but I just said it was proven correct. He correctly guessed all the characters I just listed. Will you never believe him regardless of how many time's he IS correct?

Vergeben: Ridley, Simon, Isabelle, Snake, Ics are going to be in the game
Smash Community: I don't believe in your leak
**Gets all of them correct**
Smash Community: I don't believe in leaks until they're correct (AKA when the game is already out and speculation is no longer a thing)

 

[0007]

but a character like Ryu would definitely not be easy to work out in Smash

He's been in Smash for 3 years now...

I just said Shoryuken is dumb, which it is, it's no Witch Twist or Witch Time or...well Bayonetta in general, but it is pretty obnoxious. Plus, echo fighters still have to be balanced at least a little differently than their origin character.

The defining feature of Echo fighters is that they're balanced against their source character only and not the entire roster, since they're so similar balance differences will be minimal. That's what shaves off a lot of dev time on Echoes.


Comparing a relatively difficult move to perform (in Smash at least) like true input Shoryuken with Witch Time... just doesn't make sense to me? Even if Ken had a stronger Shoryuken I don't necessarily think it'd be unbalanced. Ken is about the kicks anyways.

 

[Fell God]

Wait wait wait, we're treating the Verg leak as fact and treating the box theory as fact at the same time? Don't they contradict each other? Unless I've misread this theory, we're getting only two characters more, one of which is Ken. No matter who else it is, wouldn't that prove Verg wrong in some capacity? Didn't he say we're getting a Gen 7 Pokémon, Geno, Skull Kid, and Banjo? I don't believe Verg myself (if we get a Gen 7 Pokémon that is not Decidueye or Lycanroc, I will believe him) but this box theory (unless, as I said, I've misread it) seems to go against that. Did I misread this whole thread or did everyone forget the rest of Verg's leak?

He's been in Smash for 3 years now...

He's also a bit rare despite being quite high tier. We don't know what goes on with the devs, all I'm saying is I'd imagine he's not easy to implement, relative to other fighters.

The defining feature of Echo fighters is that they're balanced against their source character only and not the entire roster, since they're so similar balance differences will be minimal. That's what shaves off a lot of dev time on Echoes.


Comparing a relatively difficult move to perform (in Smash at least) like true input Shoryuken with Witch Time... just doesn't make sense to me? Even if Ken had a stronger Shoryuken I don't necessarily think it'd be unbalanced. Ken is about the kicks anyways.

Yes, you're probably right about the echoes thing, I admit. I hadn't really considered how they balance them but it probably is just based on the origin character now that I think about it. And I think you misunderstood me about Shoryuken...I said it's not on the level of Bayonetta's moves, just that, again, it's just a little ridiculous having a move that is invincible frame 1, hits on frame 6, that also kills at like 60%, that's all.

 

[Arthur97]

.... but I just said it was proven correct. He correctly guessed all the characters I just listed. Will you never believe him regardless of how many time's he IS correct?

Vergeben: Ridley, Simon, Isabelle, Snake, Ics are going to be in the game
Smash Community: I don't believe in your leak
**Gets all of them correct**
Smash Community: I don't believe in leaks until they're correct.

Remember Gamatsu? Seemed pretty accurate...until it wasn't. If this guy's so irrefutable, why did he miss some?

 

[Thinkaman]

Vergeben said Ken is a lock.

Ken is literally the mother of all echoes.

It makes sense that he would be saved for last, as far as echoes go.

Sakurai has continued to cultivate the relationship with Capcom, as evidenced by the unexplained abundance of new Street Fighter music.

 

[NintenRob]

It's also possible it's just a blank spot and they just didn't know enough characters to fill it on.

If they only knew 69 characters? How else could they organise it? Genuinely curious

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

If the box theory is true it's going to be Incineroar. It's not going to be someone like Skull Kid.

Besides, Loz was proven a fake

 

[Thinkaman]

Wait wait wait, we're treating the Verg leak as fact and treating the box theory as fact at the same time? Don't they contradict each other? Unless I've misread this theory, we're getting only two characters more, one of which is Ken. No matter who else it is, wouldn't that prove Verg wrong in some capacity? Didn't he say we're getting a Gen 7 Pokémon, Geno, Skull Kid, and Banjo? I don't believe Verg myself (if we get a Gen 7 Pokémon that is not Decidueye or Lycanroc, I will believe him) but this box theory (unless, as I said, I've misread it) seems to go against that. Did I misread this whole thread or did everyone forget the rest of Verg's leak?

Vergeben claims we are getting Ken, Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square Enix character. He is very clear that he can neither confirm nor deny anything else.

He does, however, insist that there is "some form of Minecraft representation", whatever that may be. Could just be a trophy for all we know.

Vergeben's intel is not entirely at odds with the box--it merely demands that at least one final newcomer (probably the Square Enix one) not be on the side of the box.

Remember Gamatsu? Seemed pretty accurate...until it wasn't. If this guy's so irrefutable, why did he miss some?

It is commonly agreed in hindsight years later that Gamatsu had fully accurate but early information, and the project plan merely changed mid-development from Chrom to Robin. (And that Chorus Kids were planned but cut, as evidenced by files on-disc.)

Gamatsu's source had to have been someone with early access to the project plan. Vergeben, by contrast, seems to have (by his admission), 3 sources who are much more at arm's length from the project, and have very limited instances of information. (For example, all of them were cited as saying Isabelle was in, but none knew if she was a clone or echo.)

This is logical, as this level of access would comprise the majority of people who interact with the project--and most those with higher access would be far more reluctant to talk.

For example, many of you know that I am in the game industry, and know multiple people at Nintendo of America pretty well. I could never in a million years get so much as a hint out of them--Treehouse has the strongest and best-maintained NDA in the entire industry, full stop. Whoever Vergeben's sources are, they are more tertiary, but apparently reliable. They are probably figures in the broader retail, distribution, and promotional space, since he has intel on a wide variety of fighting games.

 

[Jigglymaster]

Wait wait wait, we're treating the Verg leak as fact and treating the box theory as fact at the same time? Don't they contradict each other? Unless I've misread this theory, we're getting only two characters more, one of which is Ken. No matter who else it is, wouldn't that prove Verg wrong in some capacity? Didn't he say we're getting a Gen 7 Pokémon, Geno, Skull Kid, and Banjo? I don't believe Verg myself (if we get a Gen 7 Pokémon that is not Decidueye or Lycanroc, I will believe him) but this box theory (unless, as I said, I've misread it) seems to go against that. Did I misread this whole thread or did everyone forget the rest of Verg's leak?

No. He never said we were getting Skull Kid, Geno, or Banjo. I don't know where you got any of that from. He said that there would be a 2nd square rep and minecraft getting some sort of representation. People just assumed it was Geno and assumed that if microsoft has some sort of involvement, that Banjo would be a lock in.

Yes, it does give us the interesting dilemma of having 2 newcomers leaked from verg with only 1 newcomer left, but I have a strong feeling we're gonna be seeing a Geno DLC announcment in the same fashion as when Mewtwo was first announced. I can see it now

"Geno is on the way! If you have the Nintendo Online Paid service, you'll get a FREE download code for when he comes out later this spring!"

Remember Gamatsu? Seemed pretty accurate...until it wasn't. If this guy's so irrefutable, why did he miss some?

It WAS accurate enough. He just had outdated information. We were in the right to believe him up until that point. It was a matter of "true until proven wrong" rather than a "wrong until proven right" matter. The same goes for this. You can't just ignore the fact that he's gotten so many right. No, it doesn't make Ken a lock in, but it's looking to be very likely and that's why he's such a frontrunner right now.


------------------
I think people need to chill with this all. DLC happened IMMEDIATELY after Smash 4 came out, heck it was even hinted at BEFORE the Wii U version was even released. I've got a very strong feeling that this is the base roster, but we'll be hearing from DLC much sooner than you all think.

 

[Fell God]

No. He never said we were getting Skull Kid, Geno, or Banjo. I don't know where you got any of that from. He said that there would be a 2nd square rep and minecraft getting some sort of representation. People just assumed it was Geno and assumed that if microsoft has some sort of involvement, that Banjo would be a lock in.

Well I have to be honest with you, I can't keep any of these leaks straight, I don't know what's Verg and what isn't. All I know is people keep saying Skull Kid is leaked and other such characters. Kinda just assume it's all Verg at this point. So, my mistake.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh boy. Everyone's going into speculation mode again. Well, guess there's only thing a guy can do in a time like this.
*Grabs popcorn and awaits outcome*

 

[Arthur97]

It WAS accurate enough. He just had outdated information. We were in the right to believe him up until that point. It was a matter of "true until proven wrong" rather than a "wrong until proven right" matter. The same goes for this. You can't just ignore the fact that he's gotten so many right. No, it doesn't make Ken a lock in, but it's looking to be very likely and that's why he's such a frontrunner right now.

You still haven't explained the missing characters from the supposed leak. We could be looking at a Chrom situation from 4 as well.

If we went true until proven wrong, do you know how many fake leaks we'd be believing? So, no, I won't believe this guy until it's proven correct. Besides, those predictions haven't been too farfetched except maybe Ridley. The fact he didn't call all of them puts up the question of the validity or at least completeness of his information.

Then there is the issue of why Ken? Most if not all additions so far have been highly requested (Richter probably lowest on that metric). So why Ken?

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Oh boy. Everyone's going into speculation mode again. Well, guess there's only thing a guy can do in a time like this.
*Grabs popcorn and awaits outcome*

*Grabs mountain dew, doritos and twizzlers*

Wait for me I'll come join you too.

 

[Deleted member]

*Grabs mountain dew, doritos and twizzlers*

Wait for me I'll come join you too.

Would you like front row seats as well? lol

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Would you like front row seats as well? lol

Sure.

 

[Jigglymaster]

You still haven't explained the missing characters from the supposed leak. We could be looking at a Chrom situation from 4 as well.

If we went true until proven wrong, do you know how many fake leaks we'd be believing? So, no, I won't believe this guy until it's proven correct. Besides, those predictions haven't been too farfetched except maybe Ridley. The fact he didn't call all of them puts up the question of the validity or at least completeness of his information.

I don't have to explain the missing characters that he didn't leak. If his sources never gave him the info on it, he couldn't say anything. It's the box theory that's preventing any more base characters.

Also, when I mean "true until proven wrong" I mean the person has to get something CORRECT first, and in Verg's case, MULTIPLE things correct. I thought it was absolute BS when I first saw articles of Ridley, Simon, and Snake being in the game, but he proved me wrong.

Besides, those predictions haven't been too farfetched except maybe Ridley. The fact he didn't call all of them puts up the question of the validity or at least completeness of his information.

I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap. NOBODY saw Simon or Snake coming. Konami had it's own fallout with Kojima and everyone thought that Snake was a lost cause. You do not predict that. You especially don't predict the 2nd Konami character in the form of Simon.

You can choose to not believe him, his words are not facts. But you can't deny that he's currently the most credible leaker for Ultimate.

 

[Deleted member]

Sure.

Should we also get 3D glasses so we can see all the salt fly off of the computer screens too?

 

[Arthur97]

I don't have to explain the missing characters that he didn't leak. If his sources never gave him the info on it, he couldn't say anything. It's the box theory that's preventing any more base characters.

Also, when I mean "true until proven wrong" I mean the person has to get something CORRECT first, and in Verg's case, MULTIPLE things correct. I thought it was absolute BS when I first saw articles of Ridley, Simon, and Snake being in the game, but he proved me wrong.




I'm sorry, but that's a load of crap. NOBODY saw Simon or Snake coming. Konami had it's own fallout with Kojima and everyone thought that Snake was a lost cause. You do not predict that. You especially don't predict the 2nd Konami character in the form of Simon.

You can choose to not believe him, his words are not facts. But you can't deny that he's currently the most credible leaker for Ultimate.

Having someone return is not so farfetched, even if it is Snake. Especially after the Ballot. As for Simon, he is a bit of a stretch, but not an impossible logic leap (now, if he had also predicted Richter...). Admittedly not the logic path I would have taken, but neither of us can rule it out.

You seem to be on the other side of the spectrum though treating his every word as fact. Gamatsu should have been a valuable lesson to be wary even of seemingly accurate leaks.

And as for the box, it's leaving out the fact that we're also dealing with one of the largest trolls around: Sakurai. Curveball after curveball should really make people give up on trying to predict anything. Precedents have proven time and time again to not work. Why would a box pattern be so telling? Plus, do you really think they'd drop such a hint by accident (without a third party messing up like with Warriors)?

 

[Heatswave]

Oh boy, definetly lowering my expectations now...
I was one of the people estimating 4 more unique and 4 more echo fighters to come after the smash direct, but if I'm being honest with myself that was always more wishful thinking...
I think the theory lines up, Sakurai said not to expect many new fighters (11 as the final number, makes sense), he said in the smash direct "a few more" will be announced later (4 characters fits that bill) and I always thought there won't be more stages left, 103 is the final number...
I really hope I'm wrong, as the salt storm will be massive:
1. Isabelle will get so much hate for taking a unique slot, first from people that rooted for other characters (Geno, Isaac, Skull Kid, Bandana Dee, Banjo), second from people, that could argue, if they made her an echo of villager, there would have been room for at least one more echo fighter (like Dixie or Shadow).
2. revealing Incineroar and Ken as the last characters will feel pretty lackluster to the majority of people
3. two big Nintendo franchises (Zelda, Kirby) got nothing new, two times in a row (Smash 4, Ultimate), which will spawn massive hate for Dark Samus (why does Metroid get 2 new reps and Zelda and Kirby none, why did Donkey Kong only got 1, when it sells so much better) and Chrom (Fire Emblem got 4 new characters in the last two games).

Marketing wise it would be a massive failure on Nintendos part to reveal 5 fighters in the first smash direct (which sparked the out of control numbers for more newcomers) and only 2 in the second... At least, they could have moved the Chrom/Dark Samus Segment to the second direct and make the last character reveal count, by switching King K. Rool and Incineroar. This is actually the biggest counter argument to the box art theory, but knowing Nintendo it wouldn't be the first time, after all it is the company, that thinks NES games will sell their online service...

 

[soviet prince]

could the bottom have characters on it?

 

[Fell God]

Vergeben claims we are getting Ken, Gen 7 Pokemon, and a Square Enix character. He is very clear that he can neither confirm nor deny anything else.

He does, however, insist that there is "some form of Minecraft representation", whatever that may be. Could just be a trophy for all we know.

Vergeben's intel is not entirely at odds with the box--it merely demands that at least one final newcomer (probably the Square Enix one) not be on the side of the box.

Yes yes, I realize I was mixing up leaks now. But, er...Minecraft? Sure it is (or, was) a massive gaming phenomenon, and it is on Switch, but wouldn't that require some Microsoft involvement? If they're getting into talks with Microsoft, wouldn't they aim a little higher than just a trophy when one of their characters is a huge request? Obviously we now know we're not getting any stages, and Steve obviously won't be playable, but idk maybe I just don't know quite how these corporate talks work, maybe it's a ton easier to get a mere trophy than I think it is, or a ton harder to get a fighter. Still, doesn't talk of Minecraft representation shake your faith just a little? Although, I guess we did get a Commander Video (or, Captain Video?) trophy in 4, so it is possible to see Minecraft, but still...just seems a bit off to me

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Last game had Rayman as nothing but a trophy

 

[Thinkaman]

I mean, this is a pretty subtle hint, made very inadvertently by someone rather far down the chain.

FAR bigger accidental slips were made by the dev team directly during Brawl, multiple times!


As for "why Ken", Ken is an extremely iconic character who is Ying and Yang with Ryu. As the original echo, he has co-stared in every Street Fighter game alongside Ryu, offering a very similar moveset with a few key tweaks that radically change his playstyle. (Though honestly, Smash 4 Ryu plays more like "Ken" than "Ryu"...)

As an old school Street Fighter pro, Sakurai has an intimate awareness and understanding of Ken's design. Hell, Ken probably inspired the clones back in Melee.

Yes yes, I realize I was mixing up leaks now. But, er...Minecraft? Sure it is (or, was) a massive gaming phenomenon, and it is on Switch, but wouldn't that require some Microsoft involvement? If they're getting into talks with Microsoft, wouldn't they aim a little higher than just a trophy when one of their characters is a huge request? Obviously we now know we're not getting any stages, and Steve obviously won't be playable, but idk maybe I just don't know quite how these corporate talks work, maybe it's a ton easier to get a mere trophy than I think it is, or a ton harder to get a fighter. Still, doesn't talk of Minecraft representation shake your faith just a little? Although, I guess we did get a Commander Video (or, Captain Video?) trophy in 4, so it is possible to see Minecraft, but still...just seems a bit off to me

Sakurai has actually written in his column about the design of Minecraft multiple times, including calling it one of the rare games he will go back to. (Especially while exercising on a bike.) He spoke strongly of the Nintendo Switch port.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Last game had Rayman as nothing but a trophy

Think that's any indication Rayman may just get into this game whether base or DLC? Especially considering Nintendo's and Ubisoft's good relationship.

Should we also get 3D glasses so we can see all the salt fly off of the computer screens too?

Already got them while we headed in. This is gonna be a blast.

 

[NintenRob]

Last game had Rayman as nothing but a trophy

True, but Nintendo did publish the recent games in Japan I think.

Ubisoft is also a fair bit Smaller than Microsoft


And Minecraft is a fair bit bigger than Rayman.


Although I've heard Nintendo published Minecraft in Japan but haven't found any evidence

 

[0007]

Sakurai has continued to cultivate the relationship with Capcom, as evidenced by the unexplained abundance of new Street Fighter music.

Sakurai actually sent requests out to well known composers in the industry he liked, and those that responded positively to working on Ultimate's soundtrack were allowed to make the arrangements THEY wanted. Neither Sakurai nor Capcom nor Nintendo designated the amount of remixes. That's why it's so uneven: Castlevania, Megaman, and Street Fighter got a lot of arranges because that's what many composers chose to remix.

You can read about Sakurai's thoughts on Ultimate's Soundtrack here, it's pretty interesting:

https://sourcegaming.info/2018/09/0...a-great-game-sakurais-famitsu-column-vol-562/

 

[Jigglymaster]

Having someone return is not so farfetched, even if it is Snake. Especially after the Ballot. As for Simon, he is a bit of a stretch, but not an impossible logic leap (now, if he had also predicted Richter...). Admittedly not the logic path I would have taken, but neither of us can rule it out.

You seem to be on the other side of the spectrum though treating his every word as fact. Gamatsu should have been a valuable lesson to be wary even of seemingly accurate leaks.

And as for the box, it's leaving out the fact that we're also dealing with one of the largest trolls around: Sakurai. Curveball after curveball should really make people give up on trying to predict anything. Precedents have proven time and time again to not work. Why would a box pattern be so telling? Plus, do you really think they'd drop such a hint by accident (without a third party messing up like with Warriors)?

Because I can't ignore something that has gotten enough right in the past. You can win my trust that way with enough proof.

But here's the thing.

If I'm right: Then I've already coped with the fact that this is the roster we're getting
If I'm wrong: I'm pleasantly surprised and more excited than I ever was. I WANT to be wrong.

If you are right: Then we're both happy.
If you are wrong: Then you and many others who also choose to not believe this stuff will be disappointed.

In the end, by believing in a much smaller roster, I'm going to be content no matter what. You should as well so you and others won't be as upset when the final roster inevitably looks like what's predicted here.

You should look back to the previous post I made on the matter.

I said this in the character thread that I support, but I'll say it here as well.

Whether you want to believe it or not. This is what I suggest.
Lower your expectations: Believe that we will only get Ken and 1 new character. Worst case scenario is that it happens and we've coped with the final roster months in advance and can start planning our DLC campaign. Best case scenario is that the box theory was wrong and we have way more to enjoy and look forward to as a surprise.
Keep an eye out for the music: Both on Brawl's Dojo and the entirety of Ultimate's website, there has NEVER been a repeating franchise that has music on the website. Every newcomer that came out after the website started has also come with music (and it's expected that Isabelle will have an Animal Crossing song next week because of the blog number switching due to the delays). This insists that the only new characters we can get are either from a new franchise, or from a franchise that does NOT have a song on the website yet. Amongst those, they include
(Mario Kart).
(Note: This doesn't include Bayonetta or Final Fantasy because the August direct showed us that they have no new songs)

Out of them, these have the highest possibility. Listed from most likely to least likely.
(Confirmed Isabelle, their song will most likely show up next week)
(Gen 7)
(Tails, Shadow)
(Elma, Rex)

Since it's rumored by Vergeben that we're getting a Gen 7... that's probably what it's going to be. But It still could be a Sonic or Xenoblade character.

Anyways, the point I'm trying to get at here is, watch out for the songs that get picked within these next few weeks. We'll be able to get a better idea on who will probably show up depending on what songs get put on the site before a character reveal.

Wait for the next direct announcement: If there really is only Ken and 1 echo left... theres only going to be one more smash direct for us to watch. If it doesn't happen in October, then it's most likely the case that this is all we're getting. If it DOES happen in October, we can allow ourselves to be highly skeptical of the box theory.

That's my advice for the situation we're in right now. Take it as you will.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Whoops sorry for the double post...

I'll take what comes to me. I honestly think there should be a delete button for such a thing.