Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[Banjoisawesome2020]

https://twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1155644230296981505

So, Tuesday morning at 9AM, Sakurai will be going over the Hero and what to expect, along with his release date, which I'm guessing will either be later that day or on Wednesday.

About stupid time! They BETTER not take this long with Banjo & Kazooie!

Let's get the swordboys outta way for the glorious return of our beloved duo! And then, wait till Fall!

 

[PSIGuy]

The thought of a presentation dedicated to Banjo-Kazooie in Smash has me pretty excited. Especially if they reveal the breadth of content goes to other Rare games too. Imagine seeing an official Battletoads or Conker appearance on a Nintendo stream...

 

[ze9]

At this point, I guess Banjo and Kazooie will probably release in early-to-mid october. Maybe even sooner. I guess they'll announce their release date in the september direct alongside Doomg... whoever character #4 is.
We're in the final stretch. Can't wait to hear Sakurai talking about bear & bird for a good 15 minutes while he goes over all the details.

Maybe we'll also get some kind of Banjo tease tomorrow? I mean... he's already announced. Might as well spend two words on him at the end,

 

[SneakyLink]

check your switches, it says 4.0.0 update will be available within 7 days

This was from the Hero thread.

Better get those replays converted if ya want to save them!

 

[CannonStreak]

https://twitter.com/NintendoVS/status/1155644230296981505

So, Tuesday morning at 9AM, Sakurai will be going over the Hero and what to expect, along with his release date, which I'm guessing will either be later that day or on Wednesday.

9 AM in what time zone?

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

9 AM in what time zone?

Eastern, seems like.

Also, for the record, to me, a couple months of waiting is nothing compared to years of not knowing whether BK would be chosen at all.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This has me both cautious and excited in terms of what to expect from Banjo & Kazooie's presentation. If Sakurai will be going over the Hero demo, I would then expect when Banjo & Kazooie releases, he'll do the same, which is way more than I expected after Joker's presentation. Seeing Sakurai talk about Banjo & Kazooie would be more than I could ever dream of--it's surreal thinking about it.

On the other hand, this may be a special case for Hero, and if that's the case, perhaps B&K will be underwhelming by comparison--that has to be a part of the possibilities. Still, they could stealth drop Banjo & Kazooie with no fanfare, and I'd just be excited since they're in Smash. I would love and prefer the former, but I'd be content and happy with the latter.

 

[shellshocker18]

How fast will Banjo & Kazooie's page become accessible after the Hero drops? That's what I'm going to really be waiting for while I play around with Hero. I need new screens. Still so many moves and alts unknown for them

 

[CosmicQuark]

How fast will Banjo & Kazooie's page become accessible after the Hero drops? That's what I'm going to really be waiting for while I play around with Hero. I need new screens. Still so many moves and alts unknown for them

Me too, which is what I've personally been hyping about--and that is what has me concerned. It would be nice immediately after Hero's released, but my fear is it'll take much longer than that. Also, looks like Sakurai's going scriptless, so it may very well be that Hero gets a unique presentation. Still hope Sakurai's there for B&K's presentation. *fingers crossed*

 

[PSIGuy]

OK so apparently it's less of a direct and more of a unscripted demoing of Hero... that really doesn't inspire confidence. Joker coming out of nowhere with his 15 minute video was great, but I don't want BK to just be demoed live and then released.

 

[Organization XIII]

What is hard to understand is the choice to not make them play any different. Most of them don't even have any stat changes to differentiate themselves from their base characters.

The choice is because they are meant to just be basically alternate skins. They give people more options and make the roster look bigger. Besides by the time they start adding in echoes there's no time for any more real characters to be added so they are basically just free extras. Kind of like the recolored hidden characters in the early Mortal Kombats.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This question popped up on Resetera: Will Grunty be a stage boss? In the isolated audio of the trailer, when it shows Gruntilda's Lair, some are saying it sounds like the intro to a boss theme. I had noted when the trailer came out that that specific shot looked more cinematic than the rest of the gameplay trailer. If true, this is what I had always hoped for but tempered my expectations. I'll still temper my expectations.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[PSIGuy]

Imagine Banjo-Kazooie getting so much love that it's the first DLC pack to come with more than the standard Fighter/Stage/Spirits/Music bundle... Getting better treatment than Persona 5 or Dragon Quest, at that! (Granted it might be that BK don't get any unique gimmicks like the various Mementos themes or the varied alts and this kind of extra content is how they flesh out each franchise and pack a bit more).

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Yeah, I’m starting to think Grunty is coming in as a boss.

 

[TheCJBrine]

This question popped up on Resetera: Will Grunty be a stage boss? In the isolated audio of the trailer, when it shows Gruntilda's Lair, some are saying it sounds like the intro to a boss theme. I had noted when the trailer came out that that specific shot looked more cinematic than the rest of the gameplay trailer. If true, this is what I had always hoped for but tempered my expectations. I'll still temper my expectations.

It definitely sounds like a boss intro sound, similar to Marx’s as 3BitSaurus noted.

 

[shellshocker18]

I wouldn't be upset if Grunty wasn't a boss, but it would be cool if she was. Bosses probably take about as much as 1 of the more in depth assist trophies to make, so people who think its an overwhelming amount of work I don't agree with. A model with entrance, movement and defeat animations, 5 or so stage based attacks and boom you have a boss. Some of the actual game assist trophies like Zero, Knuckles, Rodin etc. have as several attacks and air dodges and damage animations and stuff that a boss wouldn't even need.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Imagine Banjo-Kazooie getting so much love that it's the first DLC pack to come with more than the standard Fighter/Stage/Spirits/Music bundle... Getting better treatment than Persona 5 or Dragon Quest, at that! (Granted it might be that BK don't get any unique gimmicks like the various Mementos themes or the varied alts and this kind of extra content is how they flesh out each franchise and pack a bit more).

That gave me an idea. Perhaps it's not a matter of one getting more than the others, but each character gets stuff that fits with their character in Smash. And while this certainly won't be the case, perhaps Joker got the stage gimmick (same update as Stage Builder), and Banjo & Kazooie get a Grunty boss along with a Boss Rush mode. Hero's main differentiater are the alt costumes, though even Joker got two types. And I do expect Hero's presentation to come with a lot, given it's run time. Maybe one character will get assist trophies from their series. Allows for DLC to have varied content that adds to certain aspects of the game, while also having consistent content (character/stage/music). Not gonna happen, but a neat idea.

EDIT:

I wouldn't be upset if Grunty wasn't a boss, but it would be cool if she was. Bosses probably take about as much as 1 of the more in depth assist trophies to make, so people who think its an overwhelming amount of work I don't agree with. A model with entrance, movement and defeat animations, 5 or so stage based attacks and boom you have a boss. Some of the actual game assist trophies like Zero, Knuckles, Rodin etc. have as several attacks and air dodges and damage animations and stuff that a boss wouldn't even need.

I still don't know why they didn't make certain assist trophies bosses, given how in depth assist trophies have become--just mess around with the HP system. Would have been nice to fight Dr. Wily at the end of Mega Man's classic mode. Shadow at the end of Sonic's. Though, licensing can explain why they didn't for third party characters.

 

[HyruleHero]

I wouldn't be upset if Grunty wasn't a boss, but it would be cool if she was. Bosses probably take about as much as 1 of the more in depth assist trophies to make, so people who think its an overwhelming amount of work I don't agree with. A model with entrance, movement and defeat animations, 5 or so stage based attacks and boom you have a boss. Some of the actual game assist trophies like Zero, Knuckles, Rodin etc. have as several attacks and air dodges and damage animations and stuff that a boss wouldn't even need.

Grunty would be a considerably easy boss to animate as well considering she stays on her broom the whole time.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

Its pretty well known that the Grunty's Lair theme was strongly influenced by The Teddy Bears Picnic theme:

But something that is not as mainstream is that Grant and co actually went back to the early years of the 20th century to get more inspiration for another famous Banjo ditty....

- The melody is more noticeable for this more modern version of the song.

Yep, it's Click Clock Wood. I remember watching a video on YouTube where a person was interviewing Grant about 6 or so years ago, they spoke about Click Clock Wood in general and they brought up the level theme. Eventually Grant spoke about its origins and while he was doing that they brought up the song title with people dancing in that ragtime style in black and white footage, 100+ years ago! Something which just popped into my head recently.Took a few tries to search the name of the song but got it eventually

 

[3BitSaurus]

I wouldn't be upset if Grunty wasn't a boss, but it would be cool if she was. Bosses probably take about as much as 1 of the more in depth assist trophies to make, so people who think its an overwhelming amount of work I don't agree with. A model with entrance, movement and defeat animations, 5 or so stage based attacks and boom you have a boss. Some of the actual game assist trophies like Zero, Knuckles, Rodin etc. have as several attacks and air dodges and damage animations and stuff that a boss wouldn't even need.

I think you're underestimating the amount of work on bosses. The animations alone would take at least a few hours, plus all of the behavior coroutines, balancing, intro cutscene and in Smash's case, modeling a stage just for them... It's not exactly something that can be done in just a few days of work.

And while Grunty does bypass some of these elements, hypothetically, there's still a lot of work to do... for a boss that won't appear in WoL and would be playable only in one Classic Mode (outside of a possible Boss Rush mode).

I'd be really happy as a player, but as a dev, I don't know if making Grunty a boss is that simple right now.

 

[N3ON]

I suspect a boss is about equal, work-wise, to two of the more intensive ATs. That's just my guess though.

Still seems like something fairly easy to add when compared to the likes of free modes.

 

[3BitSaurus]

I suspect a boss is about equal, work-wise, to two of the more intensive ATs. That's just my guess though.

Still seems like something fairly easy to add when compared to the likes of free modes.

I mean... it's not that free modes require less work, but with them you have a guarantee that they will add a good number of hours to the gameplay and be worth the effort.

One new boss wouldn't have that. Sure, Banjo fans would be happy, but... that doesn't necessarily translate into a good cost-benefit on its own.

That's what I'm talking about: why go through the trouble to make a new boss that would be underutilized anyway if you can make a simpler game mode that will add more gameplay hours to your product instead?

 

[N3ON]

I mean... it's not that free modes require less work, but with them you have a guarantee that they will add a good number of hours to the gameplay and be worth the effort.

One new boss wouldn't have that. Sure, Banjo fans would be happy, but... that doesn't necessarily translate into a good cost-benefit on its own.

That's what I'm talking about: why go through the trouble to make a new boss that would be underutilized anyway if you can make a simpler game mode that will add more gameplay hours to your product instead?

My point wasn't that they'll add Grunty, it was that bosses probably aren't that much work.

 

[shellshocker18]

I think you're underestimating the amount of work on bosses. The animations alone would take at least a few hours, plus all of the behavior coroutines, balancing, intro cutscene and in Smash's case, modeling a stage just for them... It's not exactly something that can be done in just a few days of work.

Your right in that it takes unnecessary effort to add a boss that's only going to be used once, though given they sink about 8 months to a year worth of time into each DLC charcater, they could if they wanted too. Really the Fighter Packs never promised anything other than the fighter, stage, and music, so I don't expect anything else.

As developers though they went an extra mile once already, making Spiral Mountain a fully modled stage in all directions, and choosing Banjo over the much easier to animate Steve XD. I don't think I'm overestimsting how much time it would take, several weeks or maybe over a month between however many animators and programmers they have left doing DLC. They already seem to be reusing Spiral Moutain for the boss fight, a stage that was done about 2 months ago. Smash bosses have extremly simplistic attack and movement routines so that part I know I'm not overestimating. Really just implementing Grunty's movement and attacks would be the long part, but again this game has several dozen assist trophies that do much of this.

Again I don't really even want them to spend the time to make Grunty a boss, I'm fine just her appearing in the stage and having Banjo to play as. But if other people wanna dream of a bossfight, I feel the odds are higher than normal for a DLC case. Especially compared to Joker and Hero where picking a original boss would have been more difficult, and somewhat pointless since the game had bosses that tangently fit them already. I can already imagine Grunty being an echo boss of Dracula and how quick that would be.

 

[3BitSaurus]

My point wasn't that they'll add Grunty, it was that bosses probably aren't that much work.

Yeah, my point wasn't that bosses are ridiculously hard to add either, just that it might not be the best move to add a DLC boss in terms of cost-benefit. Sorry if I didn't make it clear enough.

 

[Cyberfire]

OK so apparently it's less of a direct and more of a unscripted demoing of Hero... that really doesn't inspire confidence. Joker coming out of nowhere with his 15 minute video was great, but I don't want BK to just be demoed live and then released.

Yeah I have to admit it's weirdly inconsistent. I guess it's to do with Hero's very specific mechanic? They probably felt it was easier to explain in the demo rather than a slick edited Direct.

 

[Deleted member]

Banjo on October 28th pls.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Your right in that it takes unnecessary effort to add a boss that's only going to be used once, though given they sink about 8 months to a year worth of time into each DLC charcater, they could if they wanted too. Really the Fighter Packs never promised anything other than the fighter, stage, and music, so I don't expect anything else.

As developers though they went an extra mile once already, making Spiral Mountain a fully modled stage in all directions, and choosing Banjo over the much easier to animate Steve XD. I don't think I'm overestimsting how much time it would take, several weeks or maybe over a month between however many animators and programmers they have left doing DLC. They already seem to be reusing Spiral Moutain for the boss fight, a stage that was done about 2 months ago. Smash bosses have extremly simplistic attack and movement routines so that part I know I'm not overestimating. Really just implementing Grunty's movement and attacks would be the long part, but again this game has several dozen assist trophies that do much of this.

Again I don't really even want them to spend the time to make Grunty a boss, I'm fine just her appearing in the stage and having Banjo to play as. But if other people wanna dream of a bossfight, I feel the odds are higher than normal for a DLC case. Especially compared to Joker and Hero where picking a original boss would have been more difficult, and somewhat pointless since the game had bosses that tangently fit them already. I can already imagine Grunty being an echo boss of Dracula and how quick that would be.

True, but making Grunty an "echo" of another boss wouldn't be true to form. Sakurai likes to keep third-parties as close to the original games as he can.

Plus, the time they spend on characters is justified. Characters in fighting games are really expensive and time-consuming. Not just in Smash - I remember reading some report about how much Arcsys spends for making one 3D character in Guilty Gear.

So I don't think it would take a year just for them to add a boss - but it's not something they could "just do if they wanted to", either.

 

[TheZoologist]

The video presentation being 22 minutes makes me wonder if it's all gonna be just a demonstration of the Hero and his gameplay or if they'll go into the 4.0 update. I'm sure we'll see the next fighter revealed in the next month or so hopefully. And I'm really hoping once Hero drops and releases, Banjo & Kazooie will have their page on the Smash Bros. Ultimate website opened up! I'm praying when Banjo & Kazooie finally release, they'll get a really cool short presentation about their gameplay and what they'll bring to Smash. I'm just grateful they're finally in! And I'm really excited to try out the Hero!

 

[Evil Trapezium]

The video presentation being 22 minutes makes me wonder if it's all gonna be just a demonstration of the Hero and his gameplay or if they'll go into the 4.0 update. I'm sure we'll see the next fighter revealed in the next month or so hopefully. And I'm really hoping once Hero drops and releases, Banjo & Kazooie will have their page on the Smash Bros. Ultimate website opened up! I'm praying when Banjo & Kazooie finally release, they'll get a really cool short presentation about their gameplay and what they'll bring to Smash. I'm just grateful they're finally in! And I'm really excited to try out the Hero!

I'm not sure what's going to happen. If they have 22 minutes to show the Dragon Quest heroes instead of the 15 minutes that Joker had, they must have something more to show than just the heroes.

 

[3BitSaurus]

The video presentation being 22 minutes makes me wonder if it's all gonna be just a demonstration of the Hero and his gameplay or if they'll go into the 4.0 update. I'm sure we'll see the next fighter revealed in the next month or so hopefully. And I'm really hoping once Hero drops and releases, Banjo & Kazooie will have their page on the Smash Bros. Ultimate website opened up! I'm praying when Banjo & Kazooie finally release, they'll get a really cool short presentation about their gameplay and what they'll bring to Smash. I'm just grateful they're finally in! And I'm really excited to try out the Hero!

Joker took the time he did because we did't even have a "proper" reveal trailer yet. With Hero and Banjo, I feel like we may just get an overview of the character's moves, stage and songs, then the new update content and then a good few minutes of gameplay.

I think most of this "extra time" for Hero will be just a demo with Sakurai commenting on it.

 

[MisterMike]

Somebody removed most of the background music of Banjo & Kazooie’s trailer, and there’s an interesting detail they found: there’s this ominous sound effect that plays when the camera is planning over Gruntilda’s Lair. Similar sound effects can be found in Dracula's and Marx' intros. Maybe Gruntilda was teased to be a boss, similarly to how Dracula was teased to be a boss?

There was a problem fetching the tweet

I dunno, sounds more like a general broomstick flying sound to me. While I'm on the topic, I've seen this trailer around 100 times or so, but for some reason I hadn't heard Kazooie making any noise during the Talon Trot. I thought they removed that because it was considered too annoying or something, but I'm glad that's not the case.

 

[TheCJBrine]

The Japanese tweet may have been mistranslated, apparently it may have said “hour 22” or something which is 9 AM in EST.

I dunno, sounds more like a general broomstick flying sound to me. While I'm on the topic, I've seen this trailer around 100 times or so, but for some reason I hadn't heard Kazooie making any noise during the Talon Trot. I thought they removed that because it was considered too annoying or something, but I'm glad that's not the case.

The broomstick noise is when it shows Grunty, but there’s a low, kinda intense sound during the scene afterwards when it shows Banjo and Kazooie alone facing the bridge.

 

[yeet123]

Once DQ Swordboi drops tm, we can finally be in Banjo season.... Destiny arrives.

 

[yeet123]

https://twitter.com/MarioBrothBlog/status/1153840749173018624

"The 1999 children's activity book "Mario's Adventure Land" has Mario and Peach in Diddy Kong Racing, leading to a rare instance of Banjo from Banjo-Kazooie appearing in a licensed Mario work (top left)."

Banjo will be in Kart 9. Calling it now...

 

[GolisoPower]

https://twitter.com/MarioBrothBlog/status/1153840749173018624

"The 1999 children's activity book "Mario's Adventure Land" has Mario and Peach in Diddy Kong Racing, leading to a rare instance of Banjo from Banjo-Kazooie appearing in a licensed Mario work (top left)."

Banjo will be in Kart 9. Calling it now...

Dude. That would be so cool if Banjo was in Mario Kart 9 and you can race in the Jiggy Cup with one of the tracks being Spiral Mountain! Imagine the possibilities!

 

[CosmicQuark]

I'm starting to think mid-Oct is when Banjo & Kazooie will release. September's a crowded month, and October would be two months after Hero releases, before Luigi Mansion's release. Though, it could very well go into November and still be Fall. Doesn't matter when, matters that they're in.

Its pretty well known that the Grunty's Lair theme was strongly influenced by The Teddy Bears Picnic theme:

But something that is not as mainstream is that Grant and co actually went back to the early years of the 20th century to get more inspiration for another famous Banjo ditty....

Yep, it's Click Clock Wood. I remember watching a video on YouTube where a person was interviewing Grant about 6 or so years ago, they spoke about Click Clock Wood in general and they brought up the level theme. Eventually Grant spoke about its origins and while he was doing that they brought up the song title with people dancing in that ragtime style in black and white footage, 100+ years ago! Something which just popped into my head recently.Took a few tries to search the name of the song but got it eventually

Well, according to Grant in his Game Grumps interview, he gets that a lot about Teddy Bears Picnic, but honestly doesn't know. I think it's likely, if it was inspired, that it was completely subconscious. As for the Click Clock Wood inspiration--I've heard that jingle a lot before, more so than Teddy Bears Picnic, and I'm having trouble hearing the similarities, whereas with Teddy Bears Picnic, the resemblance is uncanny. But along with deciphering that song quote in Spiral Mountain re-mix, I have a terrible ear for music.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Dude. That would be so cool if Banjo was in Mario Kart 9 and you can race in the Jiggy Cup with one of the tracks being Spiral Mountain! Imagine the possibilities!

Yeah, since they started doing guest characters in MK, I can certainly see this happening so long as Nintendo is willing (Microsoft seemed plenty willing).

Though, why they put Villager, Isabelle and Inklings but not Kirby, Falcon or Fox in those games yet is still beyond me.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, since they started doing guest characters in MK, I can certainly see this happening so long as Nintendo is willing (Microsoft seemed plenty willing).

Though, why they put Villager, Isabelle and Inklings but not Kirby, Falcon or Fox in those games yet is still beyond me.

It's the Mario Kart staff, the same people who thought cutting out Waluigi, and inserting the Honey Queen and multiple babies as racers in separate games were a good idea. Those people are on a comfort zone that's on a plain different plane of reality.

 

[TheCJBrine]

That beautiful doll song made me think closer to "Windy" from Bad Fur Day tbh, but I can hear how Click Clock Wood took a bit of inspiration after listening to the level's music again...