Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

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Well, you can't make the argument for Conker not getting in due to toilet humor anymore, because guess what? The Rare logo is toilet humor. :p

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2019/06/random_rares_logo_is_actually_a_golden_toilet_roll

Pretty much. I just hope the series is not going on an another hiatus again.



Yeah, I want the perfect rectangle, too. But I'm sacrificing the Miis for that.
I agree with you that the Echoes selection feels kind of arbitrary, but that kinda goes for the roster as a whole. I mean, a Piranha Plant took precedence over A LOT of characters.
Though Daisy is actually the only one that feels really forced to me. All the other Echoes feel a bit like wasted potential, but at least it makes sense for them to have the movesets they have. Seeing Daisy float around and pull out a blue Toad though is... weird.
But eh, I'll take her. I'm still in the honeymoon phase with Ultimate's roster. :ultbanjokazooie:
I'm pretty sure the only reason Daisy got in at all was due to Super Mario Run being the first "real" mainline Mario game she was included since Land.

And if that's true, then Waluigi STILL can't get in if he doesn't get that status by Smash 6.

I think Phil was referring to how easy it was to simply give the rights over where Sakurai is referring to actually going to Phil/Microsoft/Rare. That's how I interpret it at least.
I mean, Phil and NOA are an arm's throw away from each other. Meanwhile, Sakurai had to fly to the other side of the pond, most likely.

That being said...

This is Sakurai's personal opinion but he doesn't really care for console wars. No matter what kind of consoles come out, if there are enjoyable games, Sakurai will always respect that.
Confirmed. C O N F I R M E D.
 
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3BitSaurus

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So there's this part in the translation of Sakurai's column...

This is Sakurai's personal opinion but he doesn't really care for console wars. No matter what kind of consoles come out, if there are enjoyable games, Sakurai will always respect that.
Though this is the first time a character belonging to a direct competitor to Nintendo was added, Sakurai is kinda known for this. Not only did we get characters that aren't normally associated with Nintendo through :ultcloud: and :ultjoker:, but if memory serves, didn't he write an entire article on Persona 5 for Famitsu? You know, a game heavily associated with the PS4?

Frankly, this is actually really heartwarming for me. Smash has just become this... huge party of gaming icons, no matter where they come from. Video Games Museum, the game.

Ah, as a sidenote, I'm back to Banjo-Tooie. Witchyworld post incoming.
 
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I thought it was interesting that he pointed out fans were still requesting Banjo after Ridley and K. Rool got in. How aware was he of fan feedback outside of the ballot? I seem to remember a statement from Nintendo around November (I think from Reggie?) saying something like "we know what characters you want." So I'd guess NOA employees were reporting to NOJ/Sakurai the feedback from fans, even though I'd bet by the time K. Rool was in, Banjo was already agreed on.

Really fascinating turn of events. Hope he talks more about Banjo and Kazooie when we get closer to their release.
 
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I thought it was interesting that he pointed out fans were still requesting Banjo after Ridley and K. Rool got in. How aware was he of fan feedback outside of the ballot? I seem to remember a statement from Nintendo around November (I think from Reggie?) saying something like "we know what characters you want." So I'd guess NOA employees were reporting to NOJ/Sakurai the feedback from fans, even though I'd bet by the time K. Rool was in, Banjo was already agreed on.

Really fascinating turn of events. Hope he talks more about Banjo and Kazooie when we get closer to their release.
So it's official, people shouldn't give up on their characters even after disconfirmation. :kirby:

Not every character has to get in because of a popularity contest. Some characters offer something different or represent something important.
Yup, that much is obvious. Case in point, Pokémon inclusions are generally outside of our influence, but typically provide something neat to the table.
 
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dlewis53

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I think that thing about Nintendo being the one who selected the characters without Sakurai's input doesn't really sound plausible anymore. Banjo and the Hero both sound like characters that he has been thinking about for a long time, and we know he liked Persona 5 a lot.
That's not actually true; Sakurai still had final say on what characters got in; Nintendo just provided ideas, and Sakurai provided his input on the matter.
 
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That's not actually true; Sakurai still had final say on what characters got in; Nintendo just provided ideas, and Sakurai provided his input on the matter.
Yeah, the only thing that gets in the way is if they're able to include characters using the engine resources they have. Ergo, stuff like using other characters as bases.
 

Vector Victor

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I thought it was interesting that he pointed out fans were still requesting Banjo after Ridley and K. Rool got in. How aware was he of fan feedback outside of the ballot? I seem to remember a statement from Nintendo around November (I think from Reggie?) saying something like "we know what characters you want." So I'd guess NOA employees were reporting to NOJ/Sakurai the feedback from fans, even though I'd bet by the time K. Rool was in, Banjo was already agreed on.

Really fascinating turn of events. Hope he talks more about Banjo and Kazooie when we get closer to their release.
Which, if it was Reggie, is funny as that contradicts how he said the fighter pass would be unexpected.

'Unexpected in characters people predict so they follow the Wii Fit Trainer route instead of fan requests' is generally how people took Reggie's unexpected comment. However, that can be seen in multiple ways. Wanted but unexpected is one way with people wanting a character but wrote them off due to licensing or competitor issues (like Hero and Banjo). Another way is a character being a spirit or AT. Having them playable after that would be unexpected as fans also would write them off as off the table.

Many feared that the fighter pass would be more business logic additions like Corrin. Thankfully Banjo disproved that. Even Joker broke that fear as Persona 5 didn't go to the Switch.
 
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Which, if it was Reggie, is funny as that contradicts how he said the fighter pass would be unexpected.

'Unexpected in characters people predict so they follow the Wii Fit Trainer route instead of fan requests' is generally how people took Reggie's unexpected comment. However, that can be seen in multiple ways. Wanted but unexpected is one way with people wanting a character but wrote them off due to licensing or competitor issues (like Hero and Banjo). Another way is a character being a spirit or AT. Having them playable after that would be unexpected as fans also would write them off as off the table.

Many feared that the fighter pass would be more business logic additions like Corrin. Thankfully Banjo disproved that. Even Joker broke that fear as Persona 5 didn't go to the Switch.
I just saw "unexpected" as a way of saying "it'll all be third party."
 

ze9

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That's not actually true; Sakurai still had final say on what characters got in; Nintendo just provided ideas, and Sakurai provided his input on the matter.
I mean, that's interpretable, but the actual quote is like this:
“Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.”

To me, at the time, it sounded like Nintendo decided everything and Sakurai only had veto power in case he really couldn't see one of the characters being realizable as a fighter. But seeing how he more or less has a personal connection with all 3 of the characters added this far, I think he's been way more involved than that.

Or, to put it more bluntly, I was expecting 5 Corrins.
 
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Which, if it was Reggie, is funny as that contradicts how he said the fighter pass would be unexpected.

'Unexpected in characters people predict so they follow the Wii Fit Trainer route instead of fan requests' is generally how people took Reggie's unexpected comment. However, that can be seen in multiple ways. Wanted but unexpected is one way with people wanting a character but wrote them off due to licensing or competitor issues (like Hero and Banjo). Another way is a character being a spirit or AT. Having them playable after that would be unexpected as fans also would write them off as off the table.

Many feared that the fighter pass would be more business logic additions like Corrin. Thankfully Banjo disproved that. Even Joker broke that fear as Persona 5 didn't go to the Switch.
I just saw "unexpected" as a way of saying "it'll all be third party."
It still sounds like "I don't know what the Smash fanbase expects, but I can say I didn't see these coming" to me.

I mean, let's be real here, did Reggie honestly have time to hang around on Internet forums?
 
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I thought it was interesting that he pointed out fans were still requesting Banjo after Ridley and K. Rool got in. How aware was he of fan feedback outside of the ballot? I seem to remember a statement from Nintendo around November (I think from Reggie?) saying something like "we know what characters you want." So I'd guess NOA employees were reporting to NOJ/Sakurai the feedback from fans, even though I'd bet by the time K. Rool was in, Banjo was already agreed on.

Really fascinating turn of events. Hope he talks more about Banjo and Kazooie when we get closer to their release.
I'm really hoping like Joker, the Heroes and Banjo & Kazooie will get special little videos detailing their movesets and what they bring to the table of Smash a bit more around the times of their releases. Like someone previously suggested, it'd be great having characters from their games detailing what makes them so unique and how their moves work in Smash. Don't know who would discuss Dragon Quest's characters (maybe a slime?), but Bottles would be absolutely perfect to detail Banjo & Kazooie's moves, maybe with Gruntilda interjecting some smack talk throughout, lol. Especially because I think Banjo & Kazooie have a few surprises left over, at least I'm hoping, mainly with them being able to use multiple kinds of special eggs like in Banjo-Tooie, along with revealing the remainder of their moves such as the Rat-a-Tat-Rap, the Beak Buster/Bill Drill (hopefully both), etc. One thing I was thinking about with them that would be really cool if it turned out to be true is I noticed in the trailer they only showed them using their Shock Spring Jump Pad on the ground. Wouldn't it be crazy if when in the air, it became a Flight Pad that gave them a crazy recovery? Two mechanics that would be really neat to bring to the table and make them much more formidable I think.
 
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I'm really hoping like Joker, the Heroes and Banjo & Kazooie will get special little videos detailing their movesets and what they bring to the table of Smash a bit more around the times of their releases. Like someone previously suggested, it'd be great having characters from their games detailing what makes them so unique and how their moves work in Smash. Don't know who would discuss Dragon Quest's characters (maybe a slime?), but Bottles would be absolutely perfect to detail Banjo & Kazooie's moves, maybe with Gruntilda interjecting some smack talk throughout, lol. Especially because I think Banjo & Kazooie have a few surprises left over, at least I'm hoping, mainly with them being able to use multiple kinds of special eggs like in Banjo-Tooie. One thing I was thinking about with them that would be really cool if it turned out to be true is I noticed in the trailer they only showed them using their Shock Spring Jump Pad on the ground. Wouldn't it be crazy if when in the air, it became a Flight Pad that gave them a crazy recovery? Two mechanics that would be really neat to bring to the table and make them much more formidable I think.
It seems likely that the two will follow Joker's pattern of having an overview video. After all, one's gotta be made aware of their forthcoming releases somehow.

Especially Hero. No way they'd skip over that one.

I mean, that's interpretable, but the actual quote is like this:
“Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.”

To me, at the time, it sounded like Nintendo decided everything and Sakurai only had veto power in case he really couldn't see one of the characters being realizable as a fighter. But seeing how he more or less has a personal connection with all 3 of the characters added this far, I think he's been way more involved than that.

Or, to put it more bluntly, I was expecting 5 Corrins.
The 5Chan fake leak made people expect 3 Corrins and 2 fan wants that aren't the biggest but would be neat.

If nothing else, that did end up increasing support for Ryu Hayabusa and Doom Slayer...
 
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Guynamednelson

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'Unexpected in characters people predict so they follow the Wii Fit Trainer route instead of fan requests' is generally how people took Reggie's unexpected comment. However, that can be seen in multiple ways. Wanted but unexpected is one way with people wanting a character but wrote them off due to licensing or competitor issues (like Hero and Banjo). Another way is a character being a spirit or AT. Having them playable after that would be unexpected as fans also would write them off as off the table.
I was considering how he said they'd be "unexpected" at a general gaming event, rather than something targeted specifically for Nintendo fans.
 
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I was considering how he said they'd be "unexpected" at a general gaming event, rather than something targeted specifically for Nintendo fans.
That point of view makes the most sense, actually. The announcement happened at the VGAs, so of course they wouldn't necessarily see a character announcement coming, let alone one for Smash.
 

dlewis53

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I mean, that's interpretable, but the actual quote is like this:
“Super Smash Bros. Ultimate’s DLC line-up is now complete. This time the selection was made entirely by Nintendo. I decide if we can create a fighter based on their selection, then come up with the plan.”

To me, at the time, it sounded like Nintendo decided everything and Sakurai only had veto power in case he really couldn't see one of the characters being realizable as a fighter. But seeing how he more or less has a personal connection with all 3 of the characters added this far, I think he's been way more involved than that.

Or, to put it more bluntly, I was expecting 5 Corrins.
But that quote still mentions that Sakurai had the final say on whether a character could become a fighter, so it's not completely without Sakurai's input, which is what you were claiming earlier.
 

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So, Witchyworld. My second favorite world from Tooie is, unfortunately, a very short one if you know what you're doing. Even more unfortunate is the fact that it's followed by the three levels I dislike the most, in sequence. :(

It's a relatively small world (insert park jokes here), but to me the fact that it has very distinct areas is a huge help in the level design's landmarks department, not to mention it helps in keeping the theme fresh. Grenade Eggs are used for quite a few things here (and if you haven't fought Old King Coal yet, they make an already easy fight into a literal joke), and this is also where we learn Split Up, an ability that will be useful in basically every level from now on.

Witchyworld highlights:

Minigames - A sizeable chunk of this world's Jiggies come from minigames, which I think is really nice considering the park theme. Some, like Hoop Hurry and Balloon Burst, use the game's actual mechanics, while Dodgem Dome and Saucer of Peril use new ones. I won't go into much detail about the former two, because they're simple "jump through hoops"/"shoot the targets with eggs" stuff.

Dodgem Dome has a very similar camera positioning and feel to Mayan Kickball, but you're just collecting Twinklies using bumper cars, so it's even easier in my opinion because there are no bombs to hitstun you. It even has three rounds, just like Mayan Kickball.

Finally, Saucer of Peril uses the same mechanics you get from learning Airborne Egg Aiming, but unlike Balloon Burst, this time it's a rail shooter that goes through the entire world, which is pretty neat. I was short of the Jiggy by 3 points on my first try, got it on the second.

To wrap up the talk about the minigames, I just really like how they reuse the same color code for every minigame (red = 1 point, green = 2, blue = 3). Makes it easier to memorize and understand. I think it's an underrated game design choice.

Van Banjo ("Vanjo?") - Remember when I said some transformations could have been better used? Van Banjo is one of them. You literally only use it to collect one Jinjo, one Treble Clef, unlock two rides and that's it. C'mon, why can't there be a racing minigame like we had with Walrus Banjo? It could have been so much fun... or maybe more uses for the horn, instead of just opening doors? Despite all that, it's still a fun transformation to use for roaming around, especially because it's invincible.

Power - Again, Mumbo's gameplay is focused on very specific areas. He's necessary to unlock Dodgem Dome, Saucer of Peril and that damned Star Spinner (why is it so easy to slip off of that thing?). However, in the case of Area 51, you need to unblock the way to his pad with a Grenade Egg first, which is pretty neat, as in Glitter Gulch Mine his pads were just... there. There are better sections with him, but those are for later.

Mr. Patch - My favorite boss in the game. I have no idea what happens if you somehow went into the tent without learning Airborne Egg Aiming first, but while it can be a little bit hard to aim for a few of his patches due to him moving around, he's generally an easy boss. You don't take damage by flying into him too, which is a blessing for when you need to hit a weak spot up close. The boxing glove attack is easy to evade, even if you have to descend to get more eggs or feathers.

That's it for now. Jolly Roger's Bay... probably in a few days. *Sigh*. I may update this post (and the other two) with an image showing my totals in every stage's first run, without backtracking.

That reminds me... once I get to Grunty Industries (that one will take a while), I may do a post regarding Isle'o Hags as a hub world. and why I feel it's one of the best hubs in N64 platformers.
 

ze9

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But that quote still mentions that Sakurai had the final say on whether a character could become a fighter, so it's not completely without Sakurai's input, which is what you were claiming earlier.
Well, having veto power based on technicalities isn't really the same as having proactive input on the selection itself.
 

IsmaR

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Sorry to derail conversation, but have any of you seen a PNG of Banjo's Smash render with a transparent background?
I can't find anything. If you guys have any leads on me, it'd be very much appreciated!
There's no official one yet, but someone from this thread made one a few pages back.

View attachment 228484
I nade a transparent version of the press release Banjo render we got. This was a close as I could get.
 
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Just came across this article.

 
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Just came across this article.

Gotta say, I loved reading this part:

This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!
It goes to show, that even if the biggest wants get in, it doesn't have to put an end to character requests, as this means that lesser-known ones will get their turn at the limelight for fan support.

Bearing all of that in mind, they willingly loaned us the rights to the character for this game, and Rare’s employees were received with open arms. Thanks to that cooperation, we were able to help a lot of fans’ dreams come true!
Now this is sweet to hear.
 
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"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

This context seems to clarify what I posted earlier; it's not necessarily that Sakurai was aware of the post-ballot demand, just that he's continuing to address the fan demand after K. Rool and Ridley.

I would guess K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie were the two most requested newcomers on the Smash Ballot. Rare fans are nothing if not dedicated.
 

ivanlerma

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Ah, I see. Then there's two ways to make the perfect rectangle. Stacked with Miis, or unstacked without Miis.
Guess it's lose-lose for me. Losing the Miis is a shame, but I don't want to stack Echoes :/
i guess i'm in the same boat too, Just because these characters fight similar to another doesn't mean their the same character(Daisy,Chrom,Lucina,Dark Samus,Richter, and Ken)
 

ze9

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Speaking of Microsoft, it originated as a rival to Nintendo; with that said, however, there’s no sense in throwing salt at former business enemies.
This is pretty heavy when you put it this way, lol.
I'm not sure if I agree with Sakurai on the number of big requests intensifying. Banjo, Ridley and K. Rool were in a league of their own (mostly because they've all been awaited for at least more than a decade), though I'd like to see Dixie and Skull Kid's support starting to drum up.
 
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ivanlerma

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So it's official, people shouldn't give up on their characters even after disconfirmation. :kirby:
Ya, So It Doesn't matter if Geno,Rayman,Isaac,Shantae,Fawful,Zael,Calista,King Boo,Bandana Dee,Tails, Waluigi,etc. are not in we can still continue to support them no matter what happens.

Also, on a side note one of my sister's help me buy Banjo Tooie online for me from a website my friend linked to my email.
 
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This is pretty heavy when you put it this way, lol.
I'm not sure if I agree with Sakurai on the number of big requests intensifying. Banjo, Ridley and K. Rool were in a league of their own (mostly because they've all been awaited for at least more than a decade), though I'd like to see Dixie and Skull Kid's support starting to drum up.
I don't think the number of requests will shrink. While many character requests are not nearly as demanded as your Genos, Isaacs and Waluigis, there are still many out there that would jump at the chance to gain the attention BK had gotten until now.

To put it briefly; the king is dead, long live the king!
 
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This is pretty heavy when you put it this way, lol.
I'm not sure if I agree with Sakurai on the number of big requests intensifying. Banjo, Ridley and K. Rool were in a league of their own (mostly because they've all been awaited for at least more than a decade), though I'd like to see Dixie and Skull Kid's support starting to drum up.
It’ll take time for there to be a new generation of big fan requests, especially after Ultimate has added so many. Personally I see Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Sora, and Crash being the most popular characters for Smash 6. I could see Bomberman getting a boost as well, but not as big as those four. Also a generic “Zelda newcomer” request.

Dixie will get more popular as time passes and people are ready for another DK character but K. Rool just absolutely hogged the spotlight.
 
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Dee Dude

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"This was another fighter that I received a lot of requests for – mostly from overseas. That being said, King K. Rool and Ridley were pretty fervently requested too. And as I continue to grant these requests, I can only see a future where there’s even more of them!"

This context seems to clarify what I posted earlier; it's not necessarily that Sakurai was aware of the post-ballot demand, just that he's continuing to address the fan demand after K. Rool and Ridley.

I would guess K. Rool and Banjo-Kazooie were the two most requested newcomers on the Smash Ballot. Rare fans are nothing if not dedicated.

Oh man...hearing that sentence coming from Sakurai himself makes so excited and hopeful for Waluigi, Isaac, Geno getting in for Smash 6 or season 2 pass since they’re essentially the final contenders as far as massive long-time requests go, anyone else is fair game in my opinion.

It’s funny how since the final Smash Direct, we’ve complained that Sakurai and Nintendo didn’t care about requested characters or the fans due to the conga-line of deconfirmations as well as getting underwhelming or dumb characters instead.

But man...:ultbanjokazooie: really proved that wrong didn’t it? I even forgiven the characters I didn’t like because we’ve finally gotten a character fans requested since :ultkrool:.

It’s takes time no doubt, but I imagine it’ll be worth once the majority get their characters.
 
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Oh man...hearing that sentence coming from Sakurai himself makes so excited and hopeful for Waluigi, Isaac, Geno getting in for Smash 6 or season 2 pass since they’re essentially the final contenders as far as massive long-time requests go, anyone else is fair game in my opinion.

It’s funny how since the final Smash Direct, we’ve complained that Sakurai and Nintendo didn’t care about requested characters or the fans due to the conga-line of deconfirmations as well as getting underwhelming or dumb characters instead.

But man...:ultbanjokazooie: really proved that wrong didn’t it? I even forgiven the characters I didn’t like because we’ve finally gotten a character fans requested since :ultkrool:.

It’s takes time no doubt, but I imagine it’ll be worth once the majority get their characters.
The reaction to the Final Smash Direct is just the result of the fans overhyping themselves after the first four newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. It would be a heruculean task to follow up those along with every veteran. There’s nothing wrong with Isabelle or Incineroar, they just weren’t “hype enough” for final reveals. People who took the deconfirmation wave as a face spit ignore all the other good will Sakurai earned with this game.

I just think it’s a mistake to view Smash characters as “they’re good if hardcore fans want them, otherwise not.” I’m over the moon about Banjo, but I also very much enjoyed Joker’s inclusion and don’t view the last two fighters as “they’re definitely gonna be fan favorites and I’ll be disappointed if they aren’t!”

But then my most wanted were K. Rool and Ridley and they got in, with Banjo as my insane pipe dream character, so I’m pretty well fed. I just think post-Smash Ballot there is this weird culture where the roster has to resemble the top 10 in fan polls when there’s more for Smash than that, and Sakurai already put in the two biggest requests in the base game anyway.
 
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It’ll take time for there to be a new generation of big fan requests, especially after Ultimate has added so many. Personally I see Waluigi, Bandana Dee, Sora, and Crash being the most popular characters for Smash 6. I could see Bomberman getting a boost as well, but not as big as those four. Also a generic “Zelda newcomer” request.

Dixie will get more popular as time passes and people are ready for another DK character but K. Rool just absolutely hogged the spotlight.
I will say, if there's one thing you can depend on in regards to DK support, it's that they go on a sense of priority when each new request gets accepted. After Diddy got in, his fans backed K. Rool afterwards, and now the same has happened for his fans in regards to them backing Dixie in turn.

The reaction to the Final Smash Direct is just the result of the fans overhyping themselves after the first four newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. It would be a heruculean task to follow up those along with every veteran. There’s nothing wrong with Isabelle or Incineroar, they just weren’t “hype enough” for final reveals. People who took the deconfirmation wave as a face spit ignore all the other good will Sakurai earned with this game.

I just think it’s a mistake to view Smash characters as “they’re good if hardcore fans want them, otherwise not.” I’m over the moon about Banjo, but I also very much enjoyed Joker’s inclusion and don’t view the last two fighters as “they’re definitely gonna be fan favorites and I’ll be disappointed if they aren’t!”

But then my most wanted were K. Rool and Ridley and they got in, with Banjo as my insane pipe dream character, so I’m pretty well fed. I just think post-Smash Ballot there is this weird culture where the roster has to resemble the top 10 in fan polls when there’s more for Smash than that, and Sakurai already put in the two biggest requests in the base game anyway.
Most fans just keep falling into the same trap every game, it's like clockwork. It's obvious by now that the heavy hitters take priority in regards to reveals and programming just right, with more reasonable/safer picks being saved for later.

Also, for the record, I was wanting to see Isabelle and Incineroar myself, hah.
 

ze9

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I, for one, really appreciated the post-K. Rool characters.
Isabelle deserved her spot, there's not much to argue about her. She's one of the biggest faces of modern Nintendo. And I find her more fun to play as than Villager.
Incineroar and Plant weren't particularly requested or even particularly needed, but they turned out to be so fun that it doesn't really matter. Incineroar brings a new personality that we hadn't seen before in Smash, and Plant is total absurdity, the best kind of joke character.
Ken only got flack because he was revealed at a bad time, he himself is an iconic videogame character that's sure worthy of a spot, especiall as a semi-clone.
That said, though, after the everyone is here, Ridley, K. Rool, Simon and Dark Samus I was mostly along for the ride, already very satisfied. Banjo is just amplifying that feeling to the max.

I think the hardcore fanbase got treated really, really well by Ultimate. Then of course, it's not possible to include every single requested character and the other sides of Nintendo deserve some presence in Smash, too. I think they struck a great balance. Certainly better than the one Smash 4 had. Now, THAT was a game that really didn't care much at all about fan requests...
 

3BitSaurus

Smash Journeyman
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The reaction to the Final Smash Direct is just the result of the fans overhyping themselves after the first four newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. It would be a heruculean task to follow up those along with every veteran. There’s nothing wrong with Isabelle or Incineroar, they just weren’t “hype enough” for final reveals. People who took the deconfirmation wave as a face spit ignore all the other good will Sakurai earned with this game.

I just think it’s a mistake to view Smash characters as “they’re good if hardcore fans want them, otherwise not.” I’m over the moon about Banjo, but I also very much enjoyed Joker’s inclusion and don’t view the last two fighters as “they’re definitely gonna be fan favorites and I’ll be disappointed if they aren’t!”

But then my most wanted were K. Rool and Ridley and they got in, with Banjo as my insane pipe dream character, so I’m pretty well fed. I just think post-Smash Ballot there is this weird culture where the roster has to resemble the top 10 in fan polls when there’s more for Smash than that, and Sakurai already put in the two biggest requests in the base game anyway.
Sadly, I think most people either do this or they go to the other extreme, which is "only the most recent/best selling games should get in" or "the Smash bubble doesn't matter". If you look at the newcomers from Ultimate's base roster, it's actually half and half (:ultinkling::ultisabelle::ultincineroar:/:ultridley::ultkrool::ultsimon:). Pretty good balance, if you ask me.

Isabelle was... pretty obvious to me. I do wish she had some AC mechanic different from Villager, but I guess I can't complain.

Incineroar... I'm happy with him (though I don't use him much, I'm glad we got a character with that archetype, as it was missing before). I just wish Pokémon got more characters through other factors other than "most recent gen", mostly because I really wanted a Gen 3 mon or a Gen 2 that isn't Pichu, but what's done is done.

About Joker... yeah I can think of several characters I wanted more, mainly Arle, but that doesn't mean I can't love the character for what he is and what he brings to the table.
 
Joined
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I just wish Pokémon got more characters through other factors other than "most recent gen", mostly because I really wanted a Gen 3 mon or a Gen 2 that isn't Pichu, but what's done is done.
Yeah, the sad part is that most Pokémon supporters are doomed to have their venture fail because of that ,especially if the one chosen in the end is a starter. I can only feel pity for the Lycanroc fans on here, they're not prepared for this. :drsad:

At least with other individual series, we thankfully don't have hundreds of characters to fight over support for (well, usually, FE fans almost have it as rough).
 
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StormC

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 29, 2014
Messages
5,729
I posted this tier list in the general thread, but might as well share here:


This is just ranking my hype/enjoyment for these characters.

Feel free to use the template:

 
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