Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yeah, Fire Emblem, too. I've seen a lot of support for several older characters over the years (the ones who stuck with me were Lyn and Hector, both requested since Brawl, I believe). But they always end up getting shafted for the latest protagonist, and since those tend to be Lord-class (from my understanding, at least)... that equals swords most of the time.

I think the reason people have come to hate "promotional picks" so much is because of these two games. We've basically come to the point where a new FE and Pokémon character are basically a lock in new Smash games, but they're never the FE or Pokémon characters that the fans actually want. That's what makes me sad, way more than "too many reps".

Even Sakurai got tired of seeing FE swords all the time (Chrom at least was one that fans asked about for once). At least with the newest batch, two out of the three students get to actually show the rest of the weapon triangle. If people from IS ask Sakurai to include Teacher over the students (particularly Edelgard) though, then they simply don't care about the gorillion Marth permutations lacking variety.

Hell, it's no wonder why he set out to make Hero as distinct from them as humanly possible, mechanic-wise.

 

[ze9]

The thing with Pokèmon is that they can always get away with adding more and more characters. They're all unique, colorful and completely different both within themselves and in comparision to the rest of the roster.
The least unique one is Pichu, and even he has the "extreme glass cannon with self-damaging gimmick" thing going on. They're also all very fun, both visually and vocally.

The Fire Emblem crew meanwhile is incredibly boring, they all look and act the same, 4 of them share the same moveset and they're all so plain and samey that they manage to drag even Ike in the "forgettable" zone purely because of visual similarities alone.
I mean, individualy they're all fine, but as a group they just don't work.
Then you add the fact that they went from 2 to 6 in the span of one game, and the fact that Corrin was a blatant advertisement... No wonder a good chunk of the fanbase got soured on them.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Even Sakurai got tired of seeing FE swords all the time (Chrom at least was one that fans asked about for once). At least with the newest batch, two out of the three students get to actually show the rest of the weapon triangle. If people from IS ask Sakurai to include Teacher over the students (particularly Edelgard) though, then they simply don't care about the gorillion Marth permutations lacking variety.

Hell, it's no wonder why he set out to make Hero as distinct from them as humanly possible, mechanic-wise.

Yeah, I'd love a sword user with a different type of sword from usual. Like rapiers, katanas, scimitars... maybe whip swords?

Chrom was somewhat speculated about after Ultimate's reveal and he was specifically requested in Japan. The key thing, though, is that many people predicted he would be an Echo.

I... dunno, I wish more stuff was taken from the tactical elements FE has, at least. Weapon triangle included.

 

[dlewis53]

My Newcomer Tier List (based on hype prior to release):

S: King K. Rool, Banjo & Kazooie

A: "Everyone is Here", Ridley, Simon, Piranha Plant, Joker

B: Inkling, Incineroar, Hero

C: Isabelle

D: N/A

E: Daisy, Richter, Chrom, Dark Samus, Ken (Sorry, but I REALLY didn't care about Echo Fighters)

 

[CosmicQuark]

If someone's going to be narrating a video on how Banjo Kazooie Works in Super Smash Brothers oh, I will accept nobody other than Jon Lovitz.

First there was Mario and Pikachu, then Snake and Sonic, Mega Man and Pac Man, Ridley and K Rool--okay, okay, you get the point. So what's the big deal? Well then listen up, because there's a new Smash fighter, from the reimagining of Masahiro Sakurai, that's ready to kick some excitement to the Nintendo Switch. It's BANJO & KAZOOIE--the coolest beak-barging, claw swiping, shock jumping, grenade pooping, tag teaming duo, as a DLC character for Smash Ultimate with amazing moves, grooves, maps and flaps, you won't be able to put them down!

 

[PSIGuy]

I’m a huge FE fan and even I hate the way the FE cast has panned out. Sakurai used the analogy of clones in Smash 4 as being a dessert after a great meal but they’re more like microwaved desserts being served at the same table as a gourmet 3-course meal; they’re low effort and make the whole meal less classy. Lucina and Chrom being easy additions doesn’t mean they’re good additions and Corrin as a promotional pick over literally any other character (such as Elma...) was an incredibly tone-deaf move.

Maybe the fact that I’ve played and beaten almost every FE game EXCEPT Awakening/Fates has to do with it, though...

Meanwhile we at least got some tasteful clones a la Dark Sami’s and Richter. The possibility of an Isabelle-esque semi-clone of Diddy is pretty exciting too.

 

[dlewis53]

I’m a huge FE fan and even I hate the way the FE cast has panned out. Sakurai used the analogy of clones in Smash 4 as being a dessert after a great meal but they’re more like microwaved desserts being served at the same table as a gourmet 3-course meal; they’re low effort and make the whole meal less classy. Lucina and Chrom being easy additions doesn’t mean they’re good additions and Corrin as a promotional pick over literally any other character (such as Elma...) was an incredibly tone-deaf move.

Maybe the fact that I’ve played and beaten almost every FE game EXCEPT Awakening/Fates has to do with it, though...

At least Corrin has a unique moveset to him with transforming parts of himself into dragon parts. And Lucina and Chrom are actually the two Echoes I'd say actually work because they have a rather significant difference from both their originals: the lack of a sweetspot, meaning you can play them any way you want.

 

[Megadoomer]

Based on my excitement at the time of their announcement...

S
(Ridley and K. Rool were easily my most wanted newcomers for years, and much like Bayonetta in Smash 4, I thought that Banjo and Kazooie would be amazing additions, but that they'd never happen. (at least until Nintendo started working with Microsoft on crossplay and games like Minecraft) I am SO glad that I was wrong)

A
(Ken and Inkling were expected, but welcome additions, and after years of only having Samus and Zero Suit Samus, I was pleasantly surprised to see Metroid get two newcomers in one game)

B
(mostly because I was unfamiliar with their series - I had tried Castlevania 1 and 4, but I disliked them since the difficulty felt "cheap" for the lack of a better word. After their announcements, I played Symphony of the Night and Persona 5, and I loved them. The inclusion of Dragon Quest characters and the Belmonts made a ton of sense, but it was hard for me to get excited for them on a personal level)

C
(while Piranha Plant was creative, it was hard for me to get excited over a random Mario enemy, and Incineroar looked fun but I'm not familiar with Pokemon past generation 3)

D
(Isabelle's trailer didn't do much for me, since it made her look extremely similar to the Villager, and I felt like a fourth character with Marth's moveset seemed excessive. Daisy just seemed to be there for me as far as Mario characters go; there were definitely more interesting options, though she'd probably be one of the only ones that would work as an echo fighter)

F
Nobody! I feel like F would be used for characters that I actively disliked, and unlike some characters in previous games, I don't dislike any of the newcomers or feel like they didn't need to be included.

 

[StormC]

Oh good I'm not the only one that played Castlevania and Persona 5 because of the Belmonts and Joker being announced.

Though in both cases I had played other Castlevania and Persona games... just not theirs. But I blew through Persona 5 in a month after the VGA so I got to enjoy the Joker trailer and nods all the same.

 

[dlewis53]

Oh good I'm not the only one that played Castlevania and Persona 5 because of the Belmonts and Joker being announced.

Though in both cases I had played other Castlevania and Persona games... just not theirs. But I blew through Persona 5 in a month after the VGA so I got to enjoy the Joker trailer and nods all the same.

I haven't tried any Castlevania games yet mainly because from what I've heard, they're generally pretty hard, which isn't the kind of game I'm into. Also, I can't play Persona 5 because I don't own a PS4, and to my continuing frustration, the game still isn't on the Switch.

I have, however, started playing Dragon Quest 8 on the 3DS, and so far, I'm enjoying it!

 

[StormC]

I haven't tried any Castlevania games yet mainly because from what I've heard, they're generally pretty hard, which isn't the kind of game I'm into. Also, I can't play Persona 5 because I don't own a PS4, and to my continuing frustration, the game still isn't on the Switch.

I have, however, started playing Dragon Quest 8 on the 3DS, and so far, I'm enjoying it!

The lack of a Switch port is definitely disappointing. I absolutely adored Persona 5 and consider it my favorite game of the decade (after Smash Ultimate, natch). Top 5 all time for sure. I would pay $60 for a vanilla Switch port of P5. It's too bad Nintendo fans won't get to play such an incredible game. I assume it's because of some sort of Sony exclusivity deal with mainline Persona titles.

The Castlevania games can be pretty tough but the classic collections on Switch have save states which help.

 

[dlewis53]

The lack of a Switch port is definitely disappointing. I absolutely adored Persona 5 and consider it my favorite game of the decade (after Smash Ultimate, natch). Top 5 all time for sure. I would pay $60 for a vanilla Switch port of P5. It's too bad Nintendo fans won't get to play such an incredible game. I assume it's because of some sort of Sony exclusivity deal with mainline Persona titles.

The Castlevania games can be pretty tough but the classic collections on Switch have save states which help.

When you say the classic collections, do you mean that Anniversary Collection?

 

[spoilerowl]

Not counting echoes to keep it simple. The only character I really cared about that became an echo was Dark Samus.

SSS Tier:

My top two requests for literal decades. Calling them my dream characters is an understatement. Gotta love Rare. They even share the same trailer format, and their trailers feel so much more like "welcome home" trailers, making them feel really unique and heartwarming. Friendly reminder that neither character had been in a game from their series in over a decade at the time of their reveals.

S Tier:

I hopped on the Ridley bandwagon in Smash 4, only for that to get shot down hard by a deconfirmation. Still never played any Metroid games, but Ridley came to be my most-wanted aside from the two above. When Ultimate was revealed at E3 last year, "everyone is here" was an incredible way to start it, but of course everyone's attention would be on newcomers. And what a statement Ridley was - Ridley's confirmation really opened the door for so many other characters - for the first time ever, fan favorites like K. Rool, Banjo, Geno (rip), and Isaac (rip) felt like actual possibilities instead of just pipe dreams.

A Tier:

I'm no Persona fan, but the manner in which Joker was revealed was particularly hype; it wasn't a Smash event, so seeing that Smash invitation (less than an hour before the game launched, mind you) was an absolute and completely literal jaw-dropper. As for Inkling, their reveal was bundled with Smash Ultimate itself so they get a bonus from that, they were almost a mandatory inclusion in a new Smash game anyway given Splatoon's success.

B Tier:

Simon was a hype reveal, making we wish I'd played Castlevania. The middle two are great characters, but were undermined by Grinch hoax and being in the final Direct before the game came out. And Hero we all expected, and I have no attachment to Dragon Quest. And for about half an hour, they were the personification of all the week's prior Banjo rumors being false -- thankfully, I waited until the end instead of complaining online, and the Banjo payoff was glorious.

C Tier:

Don't get me wrong, Isabelle is a fine character. But her reveal was incredibly underwhelming for me, since I've never been a big AC fan, and it was hot off the heels of the K. Rool reveal. Plus she's the least unique non-echo newcomer, being partially based off of Villager.

The reaction to the Final Smash Direct is just the result of the fans overhyping themselves after the first four newcomers: Inkling, Ridley, Simon Belmont, and King K. Rool. It would be a heruculean task to follow up those along with every veteran. There’s nothing wrong with Isabelle or Incineroar, they just weren’t “hype enough” for final reveals. People who took the deconfirmation wave as a face spit ignore all the other good will Sakurai earned with this game.

Let's not forget the Grinch hoax, too, which amplified that to an extreme. Incineroar and Piranha Plant are fine characters, but for people who were expecting Mach Rider, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Chorus Kids, Shadow, and Isaac, it was definitely a letdown.

 

[Megadoomer]

I haven't tried any Castlevania games yet mainly because from what I've heard, they're generally pretty hard, which isn't the kind of game I'm into. Also, I can't play Persona 5 because I don't own a PS4, and to my continuing frustration, the game still isn't on the Switch.

I have, however, started playing Dragon Quest 8 on the 3DS, and so far, I'm enjoying it!

I'd recommend Symphony of the Night, which Richter is in. (he's not the main character, but he is unlockable) If you have a PS3 or Xbox 360 (or a PS4 or Xbox One, I think - not as sure about those), it should be a downloadable game.

If you have a Wii U, Game Boy Advance, or DS, there's also Aria of Sorrow. Personally, I feel like the Metroid-style Castlevania games are a lot easier to get into, mostly because there's no instant death by falling into bottomless pits. (and you can use a walkthrough if needed)

Persona 5 is also on the PS3, if you have one.

 

[StormC]

When you say the classic collections, do you mean that Anniversary Collection?

Correct, the one(s) on Switch.

Let's not forget the Grinch hoax, too, which amplified that to an extreme. Incineroar and Piranha Plant are fine characters, but for people who were expecting Mach Rider, Banjo-Kazooie, Geno, Chorus Kids, Shadow, and Isaac, it was definitely a letdown.

The Grinch Leak definitely sabotaged the endgame of Smash hype, but I feel like as fans that's on us. Sakurai never promised 7 more characters. I had faith we would see Banjo as DLC anyway.

 

[dlewis53]

I'd recommend Symphony of the Night, which Richter is in. (he's not the main character, but he is unlockable) If you have a PS3 or Xbox 360 (or a PS4 or Xbox One, I think - not as sure about those), it should be a downloadable game.

If you have a Wii U, Game Boy Advance, or DS, there's also Aria of Sorrow. Personally, I feel like the Metroid-style Castlevania games are a lot easier to get into, mostly because there's no instant death by falling into bottomless pits. (and you can use a walkthrough if needed)

Persona 5 is also on the PS3, if you have one.

I don't have a Playstation or Xbox in general; I don't really care about enough of their respective games to seriously consider investing that much money. I guess I might try Aria of Sorrow if I can find a good enough price for it.

Edit: Scratch that. I only have my 3DS right now.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

So, anyway, excitement tier for me:

S

It goes without saying that K. Rool was one of my top 10 wants by the time the August direct happened. BK I was excited about even though I really was starting to have doubts about them showing up once I heard of the E3 leaks. Joker has made going through the VGAs worth it (well, him and Crash Team Racing), considering that I'd be fine with the idea of him being a SMTverse pick possibility.

A
's alts
They were pretty pleasant surprises, after the guys preceding them were telegraphed by everyone and their mother.

B

Simon's build-up and reveal was nice, though it would have left a slightly bigger impression on me if he wasn't leaked. Isabelle I was happy about mainly because I was right about her not just being a straight-up clone.

C

I pretty just was shocked over PP being a thing more than anything else, so points for getting that out of me. Also, Luminary would have been much more surprising for me if it wasn't the worst-kept secret in Smash history. Good to see Daisy having been considered. Inkling's good, although not really my biggest want at the time. Incineroar I would have gotten more excitement for if I didn't miss the start of the Direct because of using the wrong computer, but I digress. Ridley's neat enough, that is all.

D

For the former two folks, I was basically "ah, okay, makes sense", nothing more to say than that. Ken was pretty much spoiled to hell and back and not my biggest SF pick, so eh.

I hope I didn't miss anybody.

Correct, the one(s) on Switch.



The Grinch Leak definitely sabotaged the endgame of Smash hype, but I feel like as fans that's on us. Sakurai never promised 7 more characters. I had faith we would see Banjo as DLC anyway.

Good thing even the Grincher didn't see BK coming.

Also, I was unsure about the veracity of the leak, though it's a shame that it managed to split the base in half for a whole week. Pray that nothing happens like that for the next two characters...

Luckily, I was glad that DLC was announced and silenced the doubters who didn't think we'd get anything after the base.

 

[CosmicQuark]

It's actually hilarious how much the history of Banjo & Kazooie matches the plot of the first game. So what's the story? Here's the deal. Banjo & Kazooie has been kidnapped by the very ugly and evil company, Microsoft, who snatched Rare because Nintendo is just too good. Seem's Micro$oft's got this plan to suck the beauty outta the twoie....

Spoiler: Not for the faint of heart

...with this super duper, money siphoning thing-a-ma-jig and transfer it to itself. Meow-right.

Although, in this universe, the evil witch turned good. Despite the teasing, Microsoft's back to being cool in my books.

 

[dlewis53]

Are there any DS/3DS Castlevania games that you guys would recommend?

 

[StormC]

Are there any DS/3DS Castlevania games that you guys would recommend?

If you have a New 3DS, you can get Super Castlevania IV off the eShop. Just... be sure to use save states.

 

[ze9]

Honestly, I had too much fun during the Grinch Leak. I wasn't even that disappointed that it turned out to be fake, it was an awesome ride.
It felt like there was a plot twist in either direction every 2-3 hours.
The fact that that french company got dragged into all this and had to tweet that they knew nothing about anything was incredible. The power of the internet.
That fake leak full of swearing that resurfaced from 4chan with the Chad Ganondorf was hysterical.
And even more... People analyzing the finer details of the Smash banner. Mach Rider's rifle that matched almost 1:1 with the toy gun that Sakurai bought and wteeted about some 2-3 years ago. The sprout item being exactly identical to that magic from Golden Sun. People seeing Skull Kid in Mach Rider's motorcycle. The whole "people VS elite" angle that started to come about when the insiders started to act like they were skeptical of the leak.
The fact that the name of that random employee came out and people started to search for his workplace and they found out that it was matching. The fight between the Grinch Leak and the Box Theory.
The whole association of a Smash leak with the Grinch, of all things.

It was hysterical. One week of complete utter madness. The best week Smash speculation ever had, in my book.
Shame that it turned out to be fake, but you know what they say, the travel is more important than the destination etc. etc. and in the end we got Banjo (and Ken) anyways, so there's even been some kind of good ending.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

Uh, everyone, Banjo & Kazooie's return home may be in trouble. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw24wRiYpjNnWUzf-3mEiJ0o

This may affect their return home! We gotta stop it!

 

[TheCJBrine]

Uh, everyone, Banjo & Kazooie's return home may be in trouble. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw24wRiYpjNnWUzf-3mEiJ0o

This may affect their return home! We gotta stop it!

The bill is targeted at pay2win stuff (yay) and additional game content is excluded from the bill, so I think we're okay.

 

[PLATINUM7]

The bill is targeted at pay2win stuff (yay) and additional game content is excluded from the bill, so I think we're okay.

DLC characters could actually be affected, since people who have them know how they play and get an advantage over players who don't.

 

[Vector Victor]

The thing with Pokèmon is that they can always get away with adding more and more characters. They're all unique, colorful and completely different both within themselves and in comparision to the rest of the roster.
The least unique one is Pichu, and even he has the "extreme glass cannon with self-damaging gimmick" thing going on. They're also all very fun, both visually and vocally.

The Fire Emblem crew meanwhile is incredibly boring, they all look and act the same, 4 of them share the same moveset and they're all so plain and samey that they manage to drag even Ike in the "forgettable" zone purely because of visual similarities alone.
I mean, individualy they're all fine, but as a group they just don't work.
Then you add the fact that they went from 2 to 6 in the span of one game, and the fact that Corrin was a blatant advertisement... No wonder a good chunk of the fanbase got soured on them.

And the thing is, Pokemon prints money. It and Mario will primarily be excused for adding more characters as they are the big names of Nintendo.

Fire Emblem is popular, but it doesn't even come close to that. So anyone (not referring to here) who tries to compare it to Pokemon to justify its roster amount is laughable. And there's a definite sorespot with FE and Zelda as Zelda hasn't had a true newcomer since Melee, some fE fans try to push FE above Zelda's legacy and the hypocrisy from some who argue that FE should get one-offs as playable Smash characters but Zelda shouldn't. And what also irked people were complaints from FE fans with how their roster was done (which is an actual issue). Getting all those characters then expecting they will be fixed moveset-wise next game doesn't come off looking good to fanbases waiting 2, 3 or 4 games later for their series to get a third character.

Fans were just tired of FE oversaturation. Many thought it was too much for a series that can't match how many characters it got, and its more noticeable in a large cross over game like this. Its like Dissidia giving all this focus to FFIX while skipping the bigger name games like IV, VI or VII.

I like the series but I clicked out of corrin's reveal trailer once I saw it was another FE character (after getting Marth and Ike returning, 2 newcomers and Roy as DLC). And it wasn't just FE. Kid Icarus got some backlash too due to the many content it got in 4, for, again, a series that can't really justify it. Dark Pit was Corrin: the last straw. And roster addition will always be the main attention in Smash. We aren't getting excited for an Assist Trophy DLC pass after all.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

The thing with Pokèmon is that they can always get away with adding more and more characters. They're all unique, colorful and completely different both within themselves and in comparision to the rest of the roster.
The least unique one is Pichu, and even he has the "extreme glass cannon with self-damaging gimmick" thing going on. They're also all very fun, both visually and vocally.

The Fire Emblem crew meanwhile is incredibly boring, they all look and act the same, 4 of them share the same moveset and they're all so plain and samey that they manage to drag even Ike in the "forgettable" zone purely because of visual similarities alone.
I mean, individualy they're all fine, but as a group they just don't work.
Then you add the fact that they went from 2 to 6 in the span of one game, and the fact that Corrin was a blatant advertisement... No wonder a good chunk of the fanbase got soured on them.

The amount of representation for Pokemon is expected and understandable because Pokemon is an absolute mega powerhouse of a franchise, It's been said many times before, But for those who don't know "Pokemon is the Highest Selling Media Franchise of all time" and along with Mario (Face of Nintendo) it's Nintendo's biggest 1-2 punch in their arsenal and are in a league of their own compared to the rest, So it's no surprise Mario and Pokemon have the biggest representation in Smash and just like you said Pokemon translate so well into Smash and have a large pool of different types of Pokemon (Cool or Cute) and moves as well that make them play differently.

Fire Emblem is no where near the level of Mario and Pokemon and having the same or near the same amount of representation as those 2 juggernauts baffles and confuses Smash fans, It also doesn't help that a lot of the characters look similar and their movesets weren't diversified, Of course Sakurai could be bias and a fan of the franchise and that's why it has gotten a constant push in Super Smash Bros.

 

[ze9]

Uh, everyone, Banjo & Kazooie's return home may be in trouble. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjABegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw24wRiYpjNnWUzf-3mEiJ0o

This may affect their return home! We gotta stop it!

I wouldn't worry too much about it. It's true that the bill is not exactly well written, but the only part that might concern Smash is this one:
"is a game featuring competition with other users, provides a user with a competitive advantage with respect to the game's competitive aspects over users who do not make such a transaction"

1) Who decides if Banjo or Joker are giving you a competitive advantage?
2) If taken too literally, this basically bans every fighting game DLC character ever. Just having the option of accessing a character, while your opponent cannot, could be taken as some kind of advantage. You have more options, after all. I don't think this would reflect the spirit of the bill, though. It's poorly worded, but they only want to ban the "pay to win" thing... Which is another can of worms, but eh.
3) Nintendo sure should have good lawyers on its side, and they probably already thought about it
4) Good luck Smash is not a competitive game but a party game

That said, they should really rework that part. It's really ambiguous.
But I'll say that it was about time somebody started to put some kind of ban on lootboxes. Those things are not good.
Regulating microtransactions will be way more difficult, though. I don't think you can find a good objective meter to distinguish a "good" microtransaction from a "bad" microtransaction. In fact, that part of the bill is the part that's very poorly worded, ambiguous and confusing.

Though I sure hated when my mobile version of Peggle forced me to pay 5 bucks for more lives or to wait 1 hour before being able to play again (I always waited, but still)... That's the kind of **** that really should be banned.

 

[spoilerowl]

Guys, chill. The bill's targeted at malicious microtransaction efforts like what EA did with Battlefront II. Smash Ultimate's DLC characters would no doubt fall under the "additional content" section - reminder that Smash is not sold or marketed as a competitive game, so I would not at all consider DLC characters "an advantage" in the way that pay-to-win loot boxes are.

Also, the bill wouldn't come out for some time, and people have already paid for the Fighters Pass. Do you think Nintendo is going to retroactively cancel the Fighters Pass that people have paid good money for? Even in the 0.1% worst-case that Smash DLC characters somehow fall under this bill, they're not going to make that retroactive - it would only apply to future DLC.

 

[SneakyLink]

DLC characters could actually be affected, since people who have them know how they play and get an advantage over players who don't.

I feel DLC characters won't be affected since A. Everyone downloads them anyways (so Banjo's update would give Banjo to everyone, the pack is just an unlock key) and B. There exist ways to allow users who don't have the DLC to play against the DLC characters (amiibo and online play for instance).

 

[CosmicQuark]

Honestly, I had too much fun during the Grinch Leak. I wasn't even that disappointed that it turned out to be fake, it was an awesome ride.
It felt like there was a plot twist in either direction every 2-3 hours.
The fact that that french company got dragged into all this and had to tweet that they knew nothing about anything was incredible. The power of the internet.
That fake leak full of swearing that resurfaced from 4chan with the Chad Ganondorf was hysterical.
And even more... People analyzing the finer details of the Smash banner. Mach Rider's rifle that matched almost 1:1 with the toy gun that Sakurai bought and wteeted about some 2-3 years ago. The sprout item being exactly identical to that magic from Golden Sun. People seeing Skull Kid in Mach Rider's motorcycle. The whole "people VS elite" angle that started to come about when the insiders started to act like they were skeptical of the leak.
The fact that the name of that random employee came out and people started to search for his workplace and they found out that it was matching. The fight between the Grinch Leak and the Box Theory.
The whole association of a Smash leak with the Grinch, of all things.

It was hysterical. One week of complete utter madness. The best week Smash speculation ever had, in my book.
Shame that it turned out to be fake, but you know what they say, the travel is more important than the destination etc. etc. and in the end we got Banjo (and Ken) anyways, so there's even been some kind of good ending.

Indeed, it was one of the better fakes, and benefited from a lot of coincidences. I do regret a lot of things that came out of that leak, though--I was so upset at some Banjo & Kazooie fans that were toxic, and how they were using it as an opportunity to be cruel to Steve fans. I said it then, and it was right, that they should stop the smug celebration as it could very well end up not being true--which it ended up not being true.

I was also one of those who were a part of the "people VS elite" angle, but to a more subdued degree--my thought was that we should listen to the insiders, but not take them as infallible, and was particularly annoyed at how aggressive/snotty they were to those who believed it, along with the backwards logic used to dismiss it (while trying to avoid saying the real reasons why they doubted it, which I'm guessing was the dual trailer of Kencineroar, which would contradict the Grinch leak, not Incineroar by itself). And I do feel bad for that company and that employee that got dragged into this.

I also reflected on whether my disappointment of the November Direct was in any way a result of the Grinch banner. While obviously there was some disappointment that it was fake, I feel like I was more upset that Kencineroar box theory ended up being true. You only reveal two characters if you have a 20 minute Direct, not a 40 minute one. It seemed very lopsided--the shortest Direct announced 65+ characters, the next biggest Direct announced 5, only two being unique--and the longest Direct only had two characters, one being unique. I had joked when it was announced that the only way Box Theorists could be right was if they announced two characters and spent 35 minutes on Spirit mode. I was shocked when that turned out to be right (and the disappointment of what Spirits mode actually was).

I reflect on the Smash Ultimate hype cycle as--June-August: The Promise, September-November: The Dark Ages, December-June: The Redemption. It's how I felt during the hype cycle, anyways. It's also funny--back then I said Banjo & Kazooie's design looked perfect. When they were actually revealed, yes I love it, and I've warmed up to their designs, but if you had shown me their render I would have said "Seems a bit off, especially the mouth--looks fake. Kazooie looks perfect, though". And if I had seen the mural art beforehand, I would have said "Why does Banjo's mouth curve like that, and Kazooie's nose look crooked? Though giving them their instruments is a nice touch for a fake."

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

Guys, chill. The bill's targeted at malicious microtransaction efforts like what EA did with Battlefront II. Smash Ultimate's DLC characters would no doubt fall under the "additional content" section - reminder that Smash is not sold or marketed as a competitive game, so I would not at all consider DLC characters "an advantage" in the way that pay-to-win loot boxes are.

Also, the bill wouldn't come out for some time, and people have already paid for the Fighters Pass. Do you think Nintendo is going to retroactively cancel the Fighters Pass that people have paid good money for? Even in the 0.1% worst-case that Smash DLC characters somehow fall under this bill, they're not going to make that retroactive - it would only apply to future DLC.

Are you sure? And sorry I bothered everyone with this, just wanted someone good with laws to explain it.

 

[PLATINUM7]

I feel DLC characters won't be affected since A. Everyone downloads them anyways (so Banjo's update would give Banjo to everyone, the pack is just an unlock key) and B. There exist ways to allow users who don't have the DLC to play against the DLC characters (amiibo and online play for instance).

A. Doesn't get around it because only those who pay get to use the character
B. Still requires paying for an amiibo and still gives the DLC owner the advantage which is the whole point I mentioned in the first place

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

A. Doesn't get around it because only those who pay get to use the character
B. Still requires paying for an amiibo and still gives the DLC owner the advantage which is the whole point I mentioned in the first place

You're not making me stop worrying...in fact you're making it worse...

 

[BravadoMan_13]

This quote right here...
"While Banjo and Kazooie was originally an N64 game, and their inclusion should've been a natural one,"
This is downright confirmation (at least for me) that Sakurai wanted to put them in ages ago. The buyout was literally the thing that ruined their chances back then until the Smash ballot was in effect. But at least I'm thankful they got confirmed. Still so happy to see these two again.

 

[ze9]

I like the series but I clicked out of corrin's reveal trailer once I saw it was another FE character (after getting Marth and Ike returning, 2 newcomers and Roy as DLC). And it wasn't just FE. Kid Icarus got some backlash too due to the many content it got in 4, for, again, a series that can't really justify it. Dark Pit was Corrin: the last straw. And roster addition will always be the main attention in Smash. We aren't getting excited for an Assist Trophy DLC pass after all.

Oh yes, I was very annoyed at Kid Icarus too. Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem were the only franchises to get newcomers, get echo fighters, and get new stages on both versions of the game, while every other franchise apart from Mario either got nothing or had to face cuts. It really felt like special treatment.
Also, the fact that their art style is so similar, and Shulk being there too, created the resentment against anime-style characters in general. So much that there was even backlash against Cloud, of all characters.
Thinking back, that was a really weird batch of newcomers. It felt like they had no direction at all, contrary to Ultimate.
Luckily, it's all behind now. They fixed almost everything. Though it's pretty crazy how they went from extremely tone-deaf to extremely receptive in the span of one game.

I was also one of those who were a part of the "people VS elite" angle, but to a more subdued degree--my thought was that we should listen to the insiders, but not take them as infallible, and was particularly annoyed at how aggressive/snotty they were to those who believed it, along with the backwards logic used to dismiss it (while trying to avoid saying the real reasons why they doubted it, which I'm guessing was the dual trailer of Kencineroar, which would contradict the Grinch leak, not Incineroar by itself). And I do feel bad for that company and that employee that got dragged into this.

I didn't take part in any of it, I was just watching from afar and commenting on it with my small circle on Telegram. We laughed a lot through all of it, lol.
The aggressiveness on both sides was not good, but I admit I started to live it all pretty viscerally in the last few days, it was really becoming an "us VS them". And I was a box theorist! But my heart was with the people.
I think I even came out from all of that a little wiser about the way different social groups interact. No joke, some aspects of it were really eye-opening. Nobody was angry at the insiders because the leak was not true, they were angry at the insiders just because they wanted to be treated with respect, instead of seeing the insiders go "ah yeah, your hopes and dreams are probably not happening despite all the good evidence because I say so" with a 2-minute video.

Are you sure? And sorry I bothered everyone with this, just wanted someone good with laws to explain it.

Honestly, I think just the fact that Smash has no ruleset officially adopted by Nintendo should be enough.
Smash is, formally, still presented as a party game, and it will be treated as such.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

Oh yes, I was very annoyed at Kid Icarus too. Kid Icarus and Fire Emblem were the only franchises to get newcomers, get echo fighters, and get new stages on both versions of the game, while every other franchise apart from Mario either got nothing or had to face cuts. It really felt like special treatment.
Also, the fact that their art style is so similar, and Shulk being there too, created the resentment against anime-style characters in general. So much that there was even backlash against Cloud, of all characters.
Thinking back, that was a really weird batch of newcomers. It felt like they had no direction at all, contrary to Ultimate.
Luckily, it's all behind now. They fixed almost everything. Though it's pretty crazy how they went from extremely tone-deaf to extremely receptive in the span of one game.



I didn't take part in any of it, I was just watching from afar and commenting on it with my small circle on Telegram. We laughed a lot through all of it, lol.
The aggressiveness on both sides was not good, but I admit I started to live it all pretty viscerally in the last few days, it was really becoming an "us VS them". And I was a box theorist! But my heart was with the people.
I think I even came out from all of that a little wiser about the way different social groups interact. No joke, some aspects of it were really eye-opening. Nobody was angry at the insiders because the leak was not true, they were angry at the insiders just because they wanted to be treated with respect, instead of seeing the insiders go "ah yeah, your hopes and dreams are probably not happening despite all the good evidence because I say so" with a 2-minute video.



Honestly, I think just the fact that Smash has no ruleset officially adopted by Nintendo should be enough.
Smash is, formally, still presented as a party game, and it will be treated as such.

Thank you for replying. It's calming me down some. Sorry if the article bothered you.

 

[dlewis53]

So, I read that article, and the thing that stuck out to me most was that part of what defined lootboxes to them was "an add-on transaction to an interactive digital entertainment product that in a randomized or partially randomized fashion"; that says to me that Smash DLC won't be affected because it is in no way randomized.

As for their definition of microtransactions, well, I wouldn't really say Smash DLC falls under that either, especially since, as others have pointed out, Smash is not a hugely competitive game; while there is a competitive scene, it's not nearly as big as some other games such as TF2 or Overwatch.

 

[Banjoisawesome2020]

So, I read that article, and the thing that stuck out to me most was that part of what defined lootboxes to them was "an add-on transaction to an interactive digital entertainment product that in a randomized or partially randomized fashion"; that says to me that Smash DLC won't be affected because it is in no way randomized.

Are you sure? Because it said if the DLC gives advantage over one who has not purchased it, then it might be banned.

 

[PLATINUM7]

So, I read that article, and the thing that stuck out to me most was that part of what defined lootboxes to them was "an add-on transaction to an interactive digital entertainment product that in a randomized or partially randomized fashion"; that says to me that Smash DLC won't be affected because it is in no way randomized.

The bill affects both lootboxes and pay-to-win transactions.

The bit that people should be concerned about regarding one of their definitions for pay-to-win transactions:
from the perspective of a reasonable user of the product, is a game featuring competition with other users, provides a user with a competitive advantage with respect to the game’s competitive aspects over users who do not make such a transaction

Smash, a game where multiplayer involves trying to beat other players, has been promoted with tournaments at E3, gets competitive tournaments sponsored by Nintendo and features DLC characters which can be argued to advantage players who own them, could be affected because of how the bill is worded.

 

[StormC]

As someone who was mega-hyped about Cloud, I was a bit bummed about the backlash, but I kinda get it. Smash 4 was just a really weird roster that had a lot of weird picks that at the end felt kind of alienating to those of us who were hyped after Brawl because of all the classic, fan favorite characters being added. So after Fire Emblem, Xenoblade, and Kid Icarus, I guess not even a character as iconic as Cloud could stave off anime swordsman complaints.

I agree that it's past us now and brighter days are ahead. Smash 4 was disappointing but it was the stepping stone that led to Ultimate.

the hypocrisy from some who argue that FE should get one-offs as playable Smash characters but Zelda shouldn't.

I'd say it's the difference between one-off FE characters that are primary protagonists in their game vs. one-off Zelda characters that are glorified NPCs like the Champions. The comparison would make more sense if we were talking about adding more Links.