Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[TheBeastHimself]

Yeah, there's a reasonable amount of fan polls out there to show Banjo & Kazooie definitely has a lot of fan demand from various fans(Smash fanbase alone or otherwise). It's enough evidence for that. It's not hard enough evidence to reflect the literal Poll results by any means, but it's still useful nonetheless.

Using SB in itself just leads to a smash bubble effect. Looking around everywhere can paint a way better and more accurate picture.

I wish Nintendo released the official ballot results. Perhaps the reason they haven't yet is because they are still being used for Ultimate's DLC, but I'm sure everyone would want to see those results. What I find interesting is that Banjo always finds a way to make it to the top of fan polls.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wish Nintendo released the official ballot results. Perhaps the reason they haven't yet is because they are still being used for Ultimate's DLC, but I'm sure everyone would want to see those results. What I find interesting is that Banjo always finds a way to make it to the top of fan polls.

I have little doubt he isn't at least among the top 20. I say "little", cause I prefer to remain skeptical than making an assumption.

But yeah, they intend to use it for future Smash games. I doubt we'll see the literal results. We'll see the result of the results via the developer noting it. Like how Sakurai explained that Simon, Richter, Ridley, and King K. Rool got in. Presumably it's the same reason for Chrom and Dark Samus, since fan demand was what got them in. He did mention fan demand got Ridley in, and later noted that he was a ballot pick. So they could be correlated. Fact of the matter is, he has acknowledged fan polls, so they possibly could influence him. The ballot was obviously going to get used either way(and may have been used for 4 in order to get some Mii costumes as is. King K. Rool and Inkling at least. I don't think the ballot was really used to decide on Isabelle, though. Even if it is part of why she got a costume, but her all-star status is probably the reason entirely behind it. Can't say for sure, but it's a fair guess. Inklings were an obvious lock, but I do wonder if the ballot had influence on them being playable as well.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

I have little doubt he isn't at least among the top 20. I say "little", cause I prefer to remain skeptical than making an assumption.

But yeah, they intend to use it for future Smash games. I doubt we'll see the literal results. We'll see the result of the results via the developer noting it. Like how Sakurai explained that Simon, Richter, Ridley, and King K. Rool got in. Presumably it's the same reason for Chrom and Dark Samus, since fan demand was what got them in. He did mention fan demand got Ridley in, and later noted that he was a ballot pick. So they could be correlated. Fact of the matter is, he has acknowledged fan polls, so they possibly could influence him. The ballot was obviously going to get used either way(and may have been used for 4 in order to get some Mii costumes as is. King K. Rool and Inkling at least. I don't think the ballot was really used to decide on Isabelle, though. Even if it is part of why she got a costume, but her all-star status is probably the reason entirely behind it. Can't say for sure, but it's a fair guess. Inklings were an obvious lock, but I do wonder if the ballot had influence on them being playable as well.

Now that you mention it, I don't know how popular Inklings were for Smash back in the Sm4sh days. Like they were a new franchise that a lot of people love, but I don't particularly remember a ton of people clamoring for them. So yeah, I'm not sure if they were a ballot-influenced decision or if Sakurai just wanted a new 1st party IP represented.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Now that you mention it, I don't know how popular Inklings were for Smash back in the Sm4sh days. Like they were a new franchise that a lot of people love, but I don't particularly remember a ton of people clamoring for them. So yeah, I'm not sure if they were a ballot-influenced decision or if Sakurai just wanted a new 1st party IP represented.

Inklings were pretty popular, at least on SB. Many thought they could be fully playable DLC.

Them getting a costume could be a result of the ballot. Though them being the latest all-stars could be why it happened too. Hard to say. I'm in the "could go either way" myself.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

To be fair, Geno and Isaac aren’t exactly important characters compared to the likes of K Rool, Ridley, Simon Belmont, etc. Geno is a one-off character from a spin-off game, Isaac only had a few fairly popular GBA/DS games. Banjo on the other hand was basically one of Nintendo’s icons during the N64 era. He falls more in line with the likes of K Rool and Ridley than Isaac and Geno

Golden Sun was decently well pivoted as one of the Gameboy's early and noteworthy IPs. Sure, it didn't reach Banjo's sales, but there's a decent statement to be made of Isaac being a smaller icon that Nintendo could actually put in whenever they want to. He's still representative of a different era (Though his DS game probably did the worst damage to his chances in proving that GS was inherently less marketable and successful). I'd argue he's only really a tier below someone like King K. Rool.

You know it's funny that when discussing Isaac the conversation goes that he wouldn't get in over Ridley and K Rool when the problem is he didn't get in alongside them. There's still other characters that got into the roster yet we are acting like it's expected that there should only be one or two fan characters added at a time. It shouldn't be Isaac or those two we should have gotten all three. There was plenty of space and plenty of time to add those 3 as newcomers.

I'm very aware and that's partly my point. People are content we got two popular characters but really we should expect more characters to be picked based on fan wants. But instead, we debate who of the popular characters deserved the minority of space Sakurai decides to throw our way as the rest of the roster is decided by other factors, instead of the other way around. Also, she wasn't that popular, maybe in AC but for a Smash character not really. People just accepted her because of Verge.

I'm always going to push back against this rhetoric of we have to prioritize fan requests over other characters. I've said it before, Smash Ultimate had the perfectly balanced newcomer spread. We had two popular requests in Ridley and King K. Rool, two new icons that had burst on to the Nintendo scene in Inkling and Isabelle, and two of the miscellaneous additions in Simon Belmont and Incineroar (Sakurai said he wanted to include a new third party franchise, so I kind of give Castlevania that spot). But when you look at it, Castlevania was decently well requested (Simon and Richter were both added to satisfy some fan demand AND because Sakurai thought that the whip was the more iconic part of Castlevania to represent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmS05ZX3C4w&t=546s), Inkling was also one of the top requests, and the return of the veterans was also a major presence in regards to the ballot.

If you consider returning characters and their generally high ranking on ballot related polls, you'll actually get a much higher number than just two ballot choices: Ice Climbers, Wolf, Snake, Inkling, King K. Rool, and Ridley. That's six right off the bat at the absolute top of many polls. If you count echo fighters, Daisy, Chrom, and Dark Samus were all chosen because of ballot considerations as well. So you can pretty much count those as well. The remaining four veterans that were missing also generally managed to poll decently well, so they could also be considered "ballot picks." That'd be 13 of Ultimate's 18 newcomers in because of fan demand. Ken and Richter fall into a weird place as is, leaving really just Piranha Plant, Incineroar, and Isabelle.

Isabelle is a straightforward semi-clone that was the breakout star from one of Nintendo's most successful IPs. Smash is still about Nintendo at the end of the day, so she's hard to really deny her place. That then leaves Incineroar and Piranha Plant, which are both Sakurai absolutely flexing his creative muscles with characters he enjoyed. And there should absolutely be a place for that sort of creativity in Smash. Some of Smash's greatest characters have come from such decisions like ROB, Ice Climbers, Mr. Game and Watch, Wii Fit Trainer, and so on.

The fans were listened to almost completely for this game, and this extends well beyond characters to every facet of the game. And if we go the fan only route, you're going to miss some amazingly creative characters and ideas, as well as also just blatantly ignore up and coming characters and anybody who might have a legacy to consider in inclusion. There's room for all three types of newcomers in Smash, but we shouldn't necessarily prioritize one over the other. And Ultimate genuinely just did not have a lot of development time to work with it seems the more we look at things, so newcomers were always going to be extremely limited and they did a genuinely good job with balancing the newcomers this game.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I wish Nintendo released the official ballot results. Perhaps the reason they haven't yet is because they are still being used for Ultimate's DLC, but I'm sure everyone would want to see those results. What I find interesting is that Banjo always finds a way to make it to the top of fan polls.

As dormant and underutilized the franchise is, The main reason why I think that they have such a heavy demand is that Super Smash Bros Ultimate is first and foremost a celebration of Nintendo's history and Nintendo fans love to see their favorite Nintendo franchises represented in Smash, Banjo-Kazooie's situation is very unique that fans don't see them as a another 3rd Party Character or a Microsoft Xbox character, They see them as an old favorite Nintendo/Rareware character that is still waiting it's turn and has yet to make the roster almost in the same way as King K. Rool's long awaited return.

 

[osby]

Now that you mention it, I don't know how popular Inklings were for Smash back in the Sm4sh days. Like they were a new franchise that a lot of people love, but I don't particularly remember a ton of people clamoring for them. So yeah, I'm not sure if they were a ballot-influenced decision or if Sakurai just wanted a new 1st party IP represented.

I think they'd get in no matter what, but I remember people being really surprised that they weren't DLC.

 

[hinode]

Now that you mention it, I don't know how popular Inklings were for Smash back in the Sm4sh days. Like they were a new franchise that a lot of people love, but I don't particularly remember a ton of people clamoring for them. So yeah, I'm not sure if they were a ballot-influenced decision or if Sakurai just wanted a new 1st party IP represented.

Inklings had a 94 page long support thread for Smash 4, and I'd have to imagine they would've been even more popular if they didin't get soft-deconfirmed by the Mii Fighter costumes. I remember being surprised at how much interest they had as a Smash DLC candidate before Splatoon was even released.

For what it's worth, Banjo's thread was 45 pages long, in large part because it was only started once DLC campaigning begun. Either the pre-release thread was old and abandoned, or people had zero hope for them at all until Phil Spencer started talking about Banjo in Smash.

 

[LogFrog]

Banjo may be one of the most popular 3rd party picks but I think still some 1st party picks might be more popular than him. I could be wrong though, and I’m kind of just going off recent fan polls. I can’t quite remember how the ballot went in its early days but I’m still glad Phil said what he said about Banjo near the the Smash Ballot’s conception.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Banjo may be one of the most popular 3rd party picks but I think still some 1st party picks might be more popular than him. I could be wrong though, and I’m kind of just going off recent fan polls. I can’t quite remember how the ballot went in its early days but I’m still glad Phil said what he said about Banjo near the the Smash Ballot’s conception.

From what I can tell, pretty much all the characters who were popular during the ballot days are either characters now, assist trophies, or still popular candidates. Yes, Phil pulled off a miracle with that one and might've saved Banjo in the long run.

 

[dlewis53]

& so far it seams nintendo wanted piranha plant

Actually no, Piranha Plant was not on that list of Nintendo's. That was something Sakurai himself added. Plus, details like him having a Palutena's Guidance segment indicates that he may have been planned for the base roster, but was moved to free DLC when they couldn't finish him in time.

 

[ChinaCat]

Voting inkling in the ballot was equal to not voting at all because it was a lock that they would be in ultimate. I can see the DLC arguement but the inklings were going to be in the next smash no matter what.

 

[ChunkySlugger72]

I always loved and found interesting on how much of a underdog style comeback Banjo-Kazooie had to fight through the overall list of requested character ranks considering the obstacles and legal issues they had to overcome to be a top requested character overall today.

They were considered for Melee, But I assume entering the Gamecube era Nintendo knew sometime down the line that they weren't looking to buy Rareware and that they weren't gonna be part of their future plans moving forward so they notified Sakurai to not include them to future proof possible legal issues down the line.

Brawl I assume they were more of a middle of the pack or back end request due to a competitor owning the IP, Even though the franchise still appeared on GBA, They were viewed as a pipe dream and didn't think they would be possible, So no one took them seriously.

Wii U is when it got interesting, Once the fighter ballot was announced Phil Spencer gave his blessing and that is when fan demand really took off, But were still sitting behind bigger characters such as King K. Rool and Ridley who were likely among the top requested picks of the ballot.

Once Ultimate was announced Phil Spencer was still cool with their inclusion then demand continued to snowball and after months of reveals of popular picks and assist trophy death sentences, Banjo-Kazooie has risen through the ranks and is now a top requested newcomer taking over the empty spots that were left behind by King K. Rool and Ridley.

If they do end up making the cut, That is one hell of a comeback and will make their Super Smash Bros debut all the more sweeter.

 

[TheAnvil]

Ok I don't think you understand the point here. We don't have to accept there needs to be a token Pokemon. Inceniroar absolutely could have been left out for other characters. That's wiggle room. PP may be a surprise character but those can be a focus after popular characters are addressed. That's wiggle room. There were two ballot fighters and there were much more popular third party requests than Castlevania at the time so it wasn't quite so ballot for them so I'm not going to count it when there's more pointing to other factors mattering for them more. That's wiggle room. More for popular third parties then Isaac specifically but still wiggle room. What you're saying isn't an example of there being no space but examples of how we justify accepting why non popular characters get into the roster. Which having non popular characters is fine but there was indeed plenty of time for more of the community wanted to see.

Characters are chosen to fill certain niches. Clearly a new Pokemon is an important choice, that's why we've had one every single Smash game without fail. I expect one as DLC, in fact.

You very much have to accept that not EVERY character can or should be included based on fan demand alone. It matters in a big way, but when you're competing for a spot with far far more popular characters, you're from a long dead and niche even in its prime IP on a game that only added 6 new characters on the base game, it's difficult to see any way he could have been playable.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

I wish Nintendo released the official ballot results. Perhaps the reason they haven't yet is because they are still being used for Ultimate's DLC, but I'm sure everyone would want to see those results. What I find interesting is that Banjo always finds a way to make it to the top of fan polls.

That would never end well, and they know it. And it's best not to provide fuel for leakers.

Anyway, I'll leave this thread again, don't mind me.

 

[TheAnvil]

Banjo may be one of the most popular 3rd party picks but I think still some 1st party picks might be more popular than him. I could be wrong though, and I’m kind of just going off recent fan polls. I can’t quite remember how the ballot went in its early days but I’m still glad Phil said what he said about Banjo near the the Smash Ballot’s conception.

Honestly I don't think there are very many popular 1st party characters left. Not ones that aren't (for now) deconfirmed anyway like Waluigi and Isaac. I don't expect any Assist Trophies to pop up as DLC unless we get a 2nd pass.

The most popular characters right now are some form of Banjo, Geno, Sora, Dante and Rayman.

 

[Dinoman96]

In a weird kind of way, I think Cloud's announcement for Smash 4 kinda contributed to the rise of Banjo support for Smash. I remember threads like this began popping up:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/banjo-kazooie-in-smash-is-there-a-chance-now.1139420/

I guess, because Cloud was always so associated with Sony hardware and that FF7 (until just recently) wasn't anywhere near Nintendo consoles, that gave rise to the idea that Nintendo would no problem representing games on competing platforms in Smash.

Which in hindsight is kinda weird, considering that Cloud is just a Square-Enix character that happens to be associated with a competitor's console, not a full blown Sony character like Kratos or Ratchet & Clank. It's not too different from how Brawl had content based on Metal Gear Solid 4, a PS4 exclusive game.

 

[Swop]

I still think Banjo has the best shot if you consider ingame evidence. I’m still confounded by the mii swordfighter and duck hunt dog thing as it still is tough to consider what might have actually happened with those two characters. If you ask me, mii swordfighter might’ve been used as a base for Joker and Duck Hunt for Banjo. Going by the param theory and “brave’s” stats, it makes sense to me. I’m sorry If I’m clinging on to this theory way too much, but I’d rather actual evidence in the code rather than just baseless, fake leaks.

I completely agree, seeing the in-game stats for Brave is what I state as fact as well, and honestly those Stats line up perfectly with Banjo&Kazooie all the way to the "distinctive slide".

I don't know about everyone here ,But me personally I am sick of Mii's, They were fine during the Wii and to a lesser extent the Wii U era, But I wish Nintendo would have retired them along with the Wii branding at the end of the Wii U era.

I get that, and I can see how that would be annoying for most people who would rather see Actual characters and not Custom, Non-Canon, humanoid "things", I personally enjoy them for what they are, a way to express yourself or show who you are in the Nintendo Community.

Can we all agree though that Primarina got her rightful place stolen in smash by Incineroar? A wrestler cat and Pit cosplaying as an owl? Boring. The real action is with the cutie circus seal that can sing.
View attachment 202016

oh its Caitlyn Jenner the Pokemon

EDIT: OOF, Excuse the Multiple posts, im a forum Caveman

 

[Hush_]

The slide does seem very similar judging from this video I recently came across

https://youtu.be/Ji35aDJ7JPg

 

[MajoraMan28]

I guess I'll check up more on this thread.
Will be fun to see what things will be in store in the future

 

[N3ON]

In a weird kind of way, I think Cloud's announcement for Smash 4 kinda contributed to the rise of Banjo support for Smash. I remember threads like this began popping up:

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/banjo-kazooie-in-smash-is-there-a-chance-now.1139420/

I guess, because Cloud was always so associated with Sony hardware and that FF7 (until just recently) wasn't anywhere near Nintendo consoles, that gave rise to the idea that Nintendo would no problem representing games on competing platforms in Smash.

Which in hindsight is kinda weird, considering that Cloud is just a Square-Enix character that happens to be associated with a competitor's console, not a full blown Sony character like Kratos or Ratchet & Clank. It's not too different from how Brawl had content based on Metal Gear Solid 4, a PS4 exclusive game.

Banjo demand was already very palpable by the time of Cloud's reveal, which was very late into the ballot. Spencer's tweet kicked it from zero to 100 at the beginning of the ballot.

Cloud did help dispel the notion that the character had to be closely related to Nintendo (I remember people still tried justifying that Ryu had close ties just because he had shown up on Nintendo systems several times before), but that mostly took shape at the end or after the ballot. Banjo's rise was at the outset.

 

[culumon]

As someone who's always wanted Banjo in Smash but only actively started supporting him toward the end of Sm4sh's DLC cycle, I can confirm it was the double whammy of Cloud's reveal trailer and the release of Minecraft on Wii U that made me realise that Nintendo weren't nearly as draconian as I'd previously thought with regards to 1) advertising for games not on their systems 2) working with Microsoft. Phil Spencer's comment felt like a platitude - anyone would kill for their character to make it into Smash, and his "we've worked with Nintendo before!" hadn't applied for some time - Viva Pinata: Pocket Paradise being a 2008 release, ie seven years prior to him saying that. I never thought Microsoft would have a problem with it, it was the Nintendo of 2015 I assumed would be the issue. I'd made my peace with the fact they just fundamentally weren't the type of company to allow Banjo in Smash, and it was the aforementioned two events that made me change my mind and actively start supporting Banjo. That's the big, fundamental difference between wanting a character and supporting a character to me. Had he been confirmed even before I started formally supporting him I still absolutely would've lost my damn mind, probably even more than I would now given that he's currently firmly in the realm of being a plausible pick.

 

[Datboigeno]

https://mobile.twitter.com/New_WabiSabi/status/1111378383747702784

Sooo has this been brought up?

 

[PolarPanda]

Ouch, the stuff I just got about Steve is not good AT ALL.

 

[Violante]

Not good for Steve or not good for us¿

 

[TheCJBrine]

Ouch, the stuff I just got about Steve is not good AT ALL.

I am sad and happy at the same time.

Such is the way of the Steve & B-K fan.

 

[Swop]

Ouch, the stuff I just got about Steve is not good AT ALL.

What?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Not good for Steve or not good for us¿

I'd say it's pretty obvious what she means.

Ouch, the stuff I just got about Steve is not good AT ALL.

It's nice to have a tipping point for this. That said, does that mean you can say if we're getting a Smash Direct soon or not?

I am sad and happy at the same time.

Such is the way of the Steve & B-K fan.

Indeed. I like both characters, after all. I just like one a bit more, heh.

 

[PolarPanda]

What?

Exactly what I said. The stuff I got today looks like it could potentially help Banjo/hurt Steve. Not going to take an official stance on these characters, but the messages I got are.. something lol.

 

[andree123]

Exactly what I said. The stuff I got today looks like it could potentially help Banjo/hurt Steve. Not going to take an official stance on these characters, but the messages I got are.. something lol.

I'm with the guys who theorize of (placeholder for Lloyd Irving) and (placeholder for Banjo and Kazooie) causing Century smash save data corruption glitch happening on forfeit and (some official) SD Cards and I agree with this.

 

[Lycan Rex]

Guys I'm scared

 

[Violante]

I'd say it's pretty obvious what she means.

I would say it's a totally ambiguous statement lol

Edit: double lol

 

[Dinoman96]

Guys I'm scared

If it makes you feel better, Polarpanda's info, if correct, helps Banjo while hurting Steve.

 

[N3ON]

I'm with the guys who theorize of (placeholder for Lloyd Irving) and (placeholder for Banjo and Kazooie) causing Century smash save data corruption glitch happening on forfeit and (some official) SD Cards and I agree with this.

Isn't that theory that is for Erdrick? This seems like a variant concocted by Lloyd fans.

 

[maf91186]

Exactly what I said. The stuff I got today looks like it could potentially help Banjo/hurt Steve. Not going to take an official stance on these characters, but the messages I got are.. something lol.

You made my heart go like a yoyo on a motor. Still catching my breath lol

 

[Lycan Rex]

If it makes you feel better, Polarpanda's info, if correct, helps Banjo while hurting Steve.

Oh lol thought it was the other way around

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

Exactly what I said. The stuff I got today looks like it could potentially help Banjo/hurt Steve. Not going to take an official stance on these characters, but the messages I got are.. something lol.

I hope you know you’ve got us all on the edge of our seats right now

 

[ItsMeBrandon]

This sounds hopeful for us... I'm not going to make any assumptions beyond what Polar has said, though.

Hopefully all this suspense can be laid to rest once more news on Smash DLC comes out in April- I'm feeling pretty certain we're getting a Direct on it soon.
I'm also pretty sure PapaGenos is gonna make a video about this now.

In the meantime:

Spoiler

 

[PolarPanda]

I hope you know you’ve got us all on the edge of our seats right now

You can find out some details by joining my Discord server and checking the image in #announcements:

I don't like sharing these things publicly because I get criticized for even speculating incorrectly now-a-days. My Server is for me to discuss and share info without taking a stance on it. And for those details, you can find them there But long story short, yes it is good for Banjo's chances.
Edit: sorry we don't allow advertising of Discords

 

[weallfloatdownhere7]

You can find out some details by joining my Discord server and checking the image in #announcements:
https://t.co/GhAkwRsqvq
I don't like sharing these things publicly because I get criticized for even speculating incorrectly now-a-days. My Server is for me to discuss and share info without taking a stance on it. And for those details, you can find them there But long story short, yes it is good for Banjo's chances.

Omg yes. Just joined!