Social Banjo-Kazooie Social Thread - Project Dream Come True!

[hinode]

While you're right in most of all that, your logic then implies that every single character decision made for Smash has been done in favor of business and not a single character has been put due to fan desire.

I mean it's not like King K. Rool didn't make too much sense either and Nintendo didn't think he was all that important post buyout ,But here we are because of fan demand.

Statements like these make it sound like you guys think fan demand is somehow mutually exclusive with Nintendo's business interest. This feels like a case of PTSD from Smash 4 DLC or something. Sakurai and Nintendo put the likes of Ridley and K. Rool in because they would be profitable, not in spite of it. Fan demand is very obviously something any competent bean counter is going to pay attention to when making revenue projections, just with the obvious caveat that it isn't the only thing that they'll consider. And the caveat that they'll gauge fan demand from across the entire Smash audience rather than just Smashboards exclusively, but I think Banjo is in decent shape on this count (moreso than some people who somehow have larger support threads here).

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

To be fair...Mega Man and Castlevania did technically have new installments by the time they were added to their respective Smash game.

Time when Smash 4 finalized its roster: Early 2012
Lastest Mega Man game up to that point: Mega Man 10 (March 2010)

Time when Ultimate finalized its roster: Early 2016
Latest Castlevania game up to that point: Castlevania: Lords of Shadow 2 (Febuary 2014)

Time when Ultimate finalized its DLC selection: late 2018 (presumably)
Latest Banjo-Kazooie game up to that point: Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts (November 2008)

...oh dear

But who knows, maybe it's something Sakurai will look past if he wanted to.

Yeah, that's true. The timing fit every current franchise with a playable character. None were inactive.

Though really, it doesn't matter. It's only been said to matter with 1st(2nd) parties at best. I don't think it'll affect B&K at all in itself. At least not for Sakurai. Nintendo is another story. While Banjo was important to them back then, that no longer means "now". Fan demand isn't the sole factor to work with. We don't know if Nintendo wants a relevant franchise to have a character in Smash for their "first" character of that particular franchise either. Coincidentally even the second characters from a 3rd party franchise were widely active, yet I still don't see why it would matter much. Now the reason I say it's technically an important factor is how Sakurai has spoken of it. But Sakurai isn't fully in-charge of the DLC. Nintendo plays a key role in it. Would they want to choose B&K? We don't know. Even Sakurai acknowledged them during Melee's "obvious picks", despite dismissing them fairly quickly as impossible due to licensing. They could choose them due to Rare Replay coming, as a great way to advertise it. They could choose them due to their immense popularity, despite being a bit niche(not unlike Lloyd Irving, a great example of a similarly known character, though I think he's still less known than Banjo, though both of their series are niche overall. Not that being niche is a bad thing either).

Overall, it's important to remember that both Nintendo and Sakurai are working with the DLC. Not one over the other. We don't know the exact details behind it. Nintendo could've given Sakurai a list. Nintendo could've chosen all of it while Sakurai made each character work with his magic. They both could've went over every idea, and his tweet's purpose is to say "Please don't tweet me with tons of requests, it'll chosen already". It's a weird one and there's more than one theory about how the characters were exactly chosen.

 

[Organization XIII]

You know it's funny that when discussing Isaac the conversation goes that he wouldn't get in over Ridley and K Rool when the problem is he didn't get in alongside them. There's still other characters that got into the roster yet we are acting like it's expected that there should only be one or two fan characters added at a time. It shouldn't be Isaac or those two we should have gotten all three. There was plenty of space and plenty of time to add those 3 as newcomers.

 

[KingMinjo91]

Yeah, that's true. The timing fit every current franchise with a playable character. None were inactive.

Though really, it doesn't matter. It's only been said to matter with 1st(2nd) parties at best. I don't think it'll affect B&K at all in itself. At least not for Sakurai. Nintendo is another story. While Banjo was important to them back then, that no longer means "now". Fan demand isn't the sole factor to work with. We don't know if Nintendo wants a relevant franchise to have a character in Smash for their "first" character of that particular franchise either. Coincidentally even the second characters from a 3rd party franchise were widely active, yet I still don't see why it would matter much. Now the reason I say it's technically an important factor is how Sakurai has spoken of it. But Sakurai isn't fully in-charge of the DLC. Nintendo plays a key role in it. Would they want to choose B&K? We don't know. Even Sakurai acknowledged them during Melee's "obvious picks", despite dismissing them fairly quickly as impossible due to licensing. They could choose them due to Rare Replay coming, as a great way to advertise it. They could choose them due to their immense popularity, despite being a bit niche(not unlike Lloyd Irving, a great example of a similarly known character, though I think he's still less known than Banjo, though both of their series are niche overall. Not that being niche is a bad thing either).

Overall, it's important to remember that both Nintendo and Sakurai are working with the DLC. Not one over the other. We don't know the exact details behind it. Nintendo could've given Sakurai a list. Nintendo could've chosen all of it while Sakurai made each character work with his magic. They both could've went over every idea, and his tweet's purpose is to say "Please don't tweet me with tons of requests, it'll chosen already". It's a weird one and there's more than one theory about how the characters were exactly chosen.

Exactly. Then you have Phil Spencer being very vocal about wanting Banjo in Smash. Looking at how Nintendo and Microsoft are working together, it's easy for me to see Phil suggesting Banjo for Smash. And like you said, Sakurai wanted Banjo in at one point. Difference is, those licensing issues are no longer a problem.

Those are the facts we have. Looking good to me. Sales, popularity, relevance, dead series, blah blah blah. I see it mentioned all the time, but it's all conjecture. The facts are in our favor.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Exactly. Then you have Phil Spencer being very vocal about wanting Banjo in Smash. Looking at how Nintendo and Microsoft are working together, it's easy for me to see Phil suggesting Banjo for Smash. And like you said, Sakurai wanted Banjo in at one point. Difference is, those licensing issues are no longer a problem.

Those are the facts we have. Looking good to me. Sales, popularity, relevance, dead series, blah blah blah. I see it mentioned all the time, but it's all conjecture. The facts are in our favor.

Sakurai didn't really "want Banjo" during Melee. He was using him as an example of a character that's an icon in gaming and why things aren't that simple. He knew he was impossible, hence why he was used with James Bond as "can't happen due to licensing". We don't know Sakurai's real opinion on Banjo cause it never came up at any point. Though overall I'm inclined to believe he has utmost respect for the character, even if he never played the games. He mentioned the character for a reason, after all.

And yeah, he can now consider him for getting without near impossible licensing issues. Though a thing to remember is Phil cannot okay it alone. Nintendo and the rest of the Microsoft's higher ups have to have a consensus to get in. It's definitely easier than it was during Melee, but it's not an inherent yes at this point. Just a "damn, these chances are good since Microsoft and Nintendo gladly are working together". Overall, even if B&K aren't chosen, I'm sure they'll still have a smaller appearance in this game. And there's a highly strong chance they'd be playable in a later game. Well, unless B&K get bought out by another company anyway. Microsoft are very friendly with their licensing now, so now or in the future, getting a character from them shouldn't be too hard in itself.

Regardless, I never thought he had bad chances. I don't consider B&K the most likely Microsoft character either, but I still think they are going to appear in some way regardless(if we get Microsoft content, that is). I feel the same way about Minecraft and Halo content as is among the DLC. Spirits, Costumes, possibly music for the two that aren't a playable franchise representation. I don't think we're getting new AT's, though, but who knows(I imagine they'd be as free as the Spirits are. Still DLC by all means, but more like Patches in a way). Their three biggest franchises all appearing in Smash Ultimate makes a lot of sense. Among playable and other cameos. And with Microsoft's immense cooperation, licensing all of it is unlikely to be an issue at all. It's part of why I think 2 of the 3 characters in the context of my post(Steve, Banjo, Chief) will probably be Mii costumes with the other playable, so they can make a bit of money off of the franchise licensed.

 

[N3ON]

Ultimately fan demand matters, but you'd be able to list just as many characters who got in despite a lack of or minimal demand. So it cuts both ways. Of the DLC characters we got last time, barring the vets, the most requested one prior to inclusion, let alone the only one with a sizeable vocal contingent, was Bayonetta.

Fan demand is a factor, and luckily so, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all of who gets in.

Fan demand got BOTH in. Just not as playable characters.

This argument only checks out if you'd be fine getting Banjo simply as a Mii costume or spirit.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I wouldn't use a Banjo mii costume out of spite I'll be completely honest. UNLESS it's Master Chief that beats him out. I can understand and respect that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Just think of the salt of Banjo being a Mii while Steve or Master Chief gets in.

 

[Organization XIII]

Just think of the salt of Banjo being a Mii while Steve or Master Chief gets in.

Some would be angry and then some would say Banjo never had a chance over Steve or Chief in the first place and anyone who thought so was delusional and then others would say Banjo never made as much of impact as Steve or Chief and so didn't deserve it. Need any proof, just look at any popular deconfirmed character.

 

[N3ON]

Sakurai didn't really "want Banjo" during Melee. He was using him as an example of a character that's an icon in gaming and why things aren't that simple. He knew he was impossible, hence why he was used with James Bond as "can't happen due to licensing". We don't know Sakurai's real opinion on Banjo cause it never came up at any point. Though overall I'm inclined to believe he has utmost respect for the character, even if he never played the games. He mentioned the character for a reason, after all.

And yeah, he can now consider him for getting without near impossible licensing issues. Though a thing to remember is Phil cannot okay it alone. Nintendo and the rest of the Microsoft's higher ups have to have a consensus to get in. It's definitely easier than it was during Melee, but it's not an inherent yes at this point. Just a "damn, these chances are good since Microsoft and Nintendo gladly are working together". Overall, even if B&K aren't chosen, I'm sure they'll still have a smaller appearance in this game. And there's a highly strong chance they'd be playable in a later game. Well, unless B&K get bought out by another company anyway. Microsoft are very friendly with their licensing now, so now or in the future, getting a character from them shouldn't be too hard in itself.

They did have Perfect Dark and Goldeneye stuff in Melee. I don't think featuring roles of greater capacity was impossible had it been planned from the jump, I just think they yanked everything Rare out that only been an ancillary feature like the trophies. One ex-Rare employee basically said as much. Banjo probably did have a trophy. And maybe the licensing to get him playable would've been a bit more involved, but I really doubt it would've been impossible, let alone harder than it would be currently.

Just think of the salt of Banjo being a Mii while Steve or Master Chief gets in.

Yeah, were that the outcome, I really doubt reaffirming how "fan demand got him in" would provide much solace. At least initially.

It certainly didn't in the Isaac thread.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They did have Perfect Dark and Goldeneye stuff in Melee. I don't think featuring roles of greater capacity was impossible had it been planned from the jump, I just think they yanked everything Rare out that only been an ancillary feature like the trophies. One ex-Rare employee basically said as much. Banjo probably did have a trophy. And maybe the licensing to get him playable would've been a bit more involved, but I really doubt it would've been impossible, let alone harder then that it would be currently.

Well, if he had a trophy, yeah. Moreso that there was no indication he "wanted" Banjo in with the context of what he actually said. Just why he didn't work out, due to licensing. He obviously knew people wanted the character in, and that as an all-star, is an obvious addition.

My guess is that due to the Rare situation, everything got muddied, which may have led to why he made the specific comment of "you'd think he'd be an obvious addition." Something akin to PR speak.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Well, if he had a trophy, yeah. Moreso that there was no indication he "wanted" Banjo in with the context of what he actually said. Just why he didn't work out, due to licensing. He obviously knew people wanted the character in, and that as an all-star, is an obvious addition.

My guess is that due to the Rare situation, everything got muddied, which may have led to why he made the specific comment of "you'd think he'd be an obvious addition." Something akin to PR speak.

Let me ask you this. If Sakurai knew back then that people wanted Banjo, and that he was an obvious all-star addition, do you think now he sees this is the perfect opportunity to bring Banjo to Smash?

 

[Lycan Rex]

Ugh the thought of a banjo mii costume haunts my dreams. Especially considering it would be yet another "cameo" to add to the list. Cause that's all that banjo gets nowadays. It's bad enough that both microsoft and rare just love to dangle that carrot ever so slightly out of our reach, but for Nintendo to do it too? I know they wouldn't mean anything malicious and "they had good intensions" but goddamn it would feel like Nintendo is kicking us while we're down.

I bet Isaac fans feel the same way and i pray that I never have to experience that.

 

[TheBeastHimself]

Ugh the thought of a banjo mii costume haunts my dreams. Especially considering it would be yet another "cameo" to add to the list. Cause that's all that banjo gets nowadays. It's bad enough that both microsoft and rare just love to dangle that carrot ever so slightly out of our reach, but for Nintendo to do it too? I know they wouldn't mean anything malicious and "they had good intensions" but goddamn it would feel like Nintendo is kicking us while we're down.

I bet Isaac fans feel the same way and i pray that I never have to experience that.

I'll be glad with whatever Microsoft character we get, if we get one, but I might not visit the site that day because I don't want to see the salt it'll cause.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Here come the Banjo haters again. Honestly if Banjo gets announced I don’t know how they’ll react

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Let me ask you this. If Sakurai knew back then that people wanted Banjo, and that he was an obvious all-star addition, do you think now he sees this is the perfect opportunity to bring Banjo to Smash?

Maybe. That was then. This is now. It doesn't mean he wanted him in like he did with Geno. I think he'd pretty much say yes if Nintendo brought the character up without a doubt. If Nintendo had other ideas for Rare or Microsoft characters, he'd probably say yes too. I can imagine that there could be more than one Microsoft character asked for and licensed. With probably one coming on top in the end due to a lot of talking and agreements. It's part of why I wouldn't outright consider Banjo a lock as is for playable. I definitely see him as possible, same with Chief(though least likely of the three) and Steve. They all are gaming icons that I could see Microsoft being okay with, and all have tons of popularity and would sell rather well as is. The funny thing is, if MCC does come out, that would mean that we haven't had a new(or remade) Banjo game on the Switch just yet, leaving him as the odd one out. I hope that changes, and I don't just mean with Rare Replay. I'd love a B&K compilation. If I remember right, there's four actual games. Adding all four would be cool and sell like hotcakes. It would also him out of niche status fast and make him a lot more recognized worldwide than he is right now.

I want to see more compilations anyway. I'd love a Quest compilation(if they'd be willing to buy the necessary trademarks/copyrights to change the data anyway) where it has only a set few games, but with Language options. Basically, there's 5 actual games proper(5 n64 games are exactly the same, so that's a language option. The last 64 game is unique and separated. Could have language options too to make it more fun. Then you have the Gameboy remake, which would be 1 version. And its Japanese version would a separate one. You could throw in language options for both, including ones for your usual Spanish, German, etc. Finally, Quest Fantasy Challenge. It's literally the same game with language options again, like most of the 64 games, except on one cartridge, kind of. Holy Magic Century is a separate cartridge and the UK version of Quest Fantasy Challenge, just with different language options). So you do that, and you get all the bells and whistles respectively. I want to see ones like that where it has all languages and all options entirely. There's probably other good examples, but this is one weird franchise as is.

I'll be glad with whatever Microsoft character we get, if we get one, but I might not visit the site that day because I don't want to see the salt it'll cause.

I'd just be happy to have a costume of him alone. Playable is great too. Many costumes do get upgrades, and I can imagine him having a very high chance of an upgrade next game if he doesn't get full playable status this one. I never got the hate of Mii costumes. They're actually really good for getting characters in to some degree while giving the fans something nice. They're consolation prizes for those who can't make it. Besides, as noted, they have gotten upgrades before within the next game. So it's not a bad thing if you take that into consideration.

 

[N3ON]

Well, if he had a trophy, yeah. Moreso that there was no indication he "wanted" Banjo in with the context of what he actually said. Just why he didn't work out, due to licensing. He obviously knew people wanted the character in, and that as an all-star, is an obvious addition.

My guess is that due to the Rare situation, everything got muddied, which may have led to why he made the specific comment of "you'd think he'd be an obvious addition." Something akin to PR speak.

Oh yeah, who knows if he actually wanted Banjo. This thread assumes every time Banjo is mentioned the person bringing him up must then obviously be a fan. Though I contend that if Banjo had been planned from the beginning (which he obviously wasn't), before the Rare debacle kicked off, they probably would've kept him included. Characters aren't cheap, and they did still technically have as much of the license as they ever did.

I think the only thing licensing actually accomplished was removing the Rare trophies in the game. And that was due to the outstanding litigation surrounding the impending buyout, not really the licensing itself. The only pure licensing difficulty I could see would've been for James Bond.

Here come the Banjo haters again. Honestly if Banjo gets announced I don’t know how they’ll react

The haters OH NO

I must be one of those since I don't engage in the rampant hyperbole up in here.

Ugh the thought of a banjo mii costume haunts my dreams. Especially considering it would be yet another "cameo" to add to the list. Cause that's all that banjo gets nowadays. It's bad enough that both microsoft and rare just love to dangle that carrot ever so slightly out of our reach, but for Nintendo to do it too? I know they wouldn't mean anything malicious and "they had good intensions" but goddamn it would feel like Nintendo is kicking us while we're down.

I bet Isaac fans feel the same way and i pray that I never have to experience that.

I'd rather have some Banjo over no Banjo, which is the same way I feel about Isaac. Many disagreed with me during the whole ordeal last year, but I would suspect some have had a change of heart since then.

I mean looking back, despite people alleging (in the moment) that they'd again prefer the latter, I think they were happier with Isaac's presence in Brawl over his lack of presence in 4. And I'd go so far as to say that once retrospect kicks in, that's how most fanbases would react if in similar situations.

Being kicked while you're down or having salt rubbed in the wound is a common description I see, but it feels very much like unnecessary self-victimization. I know it bites, but if you really like the character, opting for nothing over something seems petulant to me. You just gotta stay flexible, keep an open mind. If a reaction is truly so adverse that a token of consolation instead causes feelings of, y'know, being mistreated, you really dove too deep in presuming you'd get something never even remotely guaranteed.

 

[LogFrog]

I still think Banjo has the best shot if you consider ingame evidence. I’m still confounded by the mii swordfighter and duck hunt dog thing as it still is tough to consider what might have actually happened with those two characters. If you ask me, mii swordfighter might’ve been used as a base for Joker and Duck Hunt for Banjo. Going by the param theory and “brave’s” stats, it makes sense to me. I’m sorry If I’m clinging on to this theory way too much, but I’d rather actual evidence in the code rather than just baseless, fake leaks.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Oh yeah, who knows if he actually wanted Banjo. This thread assumes every time Banjo is mentioned the person bringing him up must then obviously be a fan. Though I contend that if Banjo had been planned from the beginning (which he obviously wasn't), before the Rare debacle kicked off, they probably would've kept him included. Characters aren't cheap, and they did still technically have as much of the license as they ever did.

I think the only thing licensing actually accomplished was removing the Rare trophies in the game. And that was due to the outstanding litigation surrounding the impending buyout, not really the licensing itself. The only pure licensing difficulty I could see would've been for James Bond.

That makes a lot of sense.

The haters OH NO

I must be one of those since I don't engage in the rampant hyperbole up in here.

Weird. I could've sworn not a single hater was in this thread for pages on end, over 20 pages at least. Everybody was reasonable about it. I do agree the post calling people "rabid fanboys" was absolutely uncalled for, but it did have a legit point to make. Too many assumptions. Even then, could've been handled a bit better.

I'd rather have some Banjo over no Banjo, which is the same way I feel about Isaac. Many disagreed with me during the whole ordeal last year, but I would suspect some have had a change of heart since then.

I mean looking back, despite people alleging (in the moment) that they'd again prefer the latter, I think they were happier with Isaac's presence in Brawl over his lack of presence in 4. And I'd go so far as to say that once retrospect kicks in, that's how most fanbases would react if in similar situations.

Being kicked while you're down or having salt rubbed in the wound is a common description I see, but it feels very much like unnecessary self-victimization. I know it bites, but if you really like the character, opting for nothing over something seems petulant to me. You just gotta stay flexible, keep an open mind. If a reaction is truly so adverse that a token of consolation instead causes feelings of, y'know, being mistreated, you really dove too deep in presuming you'd get something never even remotely guaranteed.

I view having content from a franchise as is a good thing, no matter how little it is. The fact Golden Sun got anything decent compared to 4 is great in itself. I wanted Isaac playable too, but a Mii costume is a step in the right direction. Though I don't feel his chances are good unless he gets another game, but then again, with nearly every all-star being in Smash among Nintendo's characters, it's pretty hard for Isaac not to be at least considered. Though I admit being a niche game isn't helping at times.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

In all honesty, where did this resurgence of Steve certainy come from? Like there is nothing really pointing towards him other than subjective speculation

 

[TheBeastHimself]

In all honesty, where did this resurgence of Steve certainy come from? Like there is nothing really pointing towards him other than subjective speculation

Minecraft is one of the biggest video game franchises of this generation, and because of that Steve will stay relevant. More and more people are believing in a Microsoft character for DLC thanks to Nintendo and Microsoft's friendship, and Steve just so happens to be one of the popular choice like Banjo and the Chief.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

Some would be angry and then some would say Banjo never had a chance over Steve or Chief in the first place and anyone who thought so was delusional and then others would say Banjo never made as much of impact as Steve or Chief and so didn't deserve it. Need any proof, just look at any popular deconfirmed character.

But if the Duo DO get in as a mainline fighter...Mmmmmm....Just thinking about all the tears from deniers and haters makes me smile. As everyone celebrates, the select, tiny minority will scream, cry, and whine for weeks and I want to be there to see all of it. All the ridicule, all the mockery, all the cries of "Never-ever", all those times I had to deal with trolls smug posting that ugly render of Steve. It will all be worth it to watch them squirm. I try to be nice, but if they are confirmed I do not care one bit if I come across as mean. I do not plan to spam Smashboards or people that are genuinely down about it, most of the peeps here are chill. My sights are set on the trolls in 4chan and Gamefaqs. I know it's petty, I know it's just randos on the net, and I don't care honestly. Just once I wish to have some type of catharsis in my life. Just once I want to actually get something I put my heart into. All the other inclusions are nice and all, but Banjo and Kazooie is the one "Never-Ever" that I truly put some soul into. Hell, it made me dust off this Smashboards account to join up with peeps like y'all.

Yah Yah, I know I know, "don't get too hype, keep your expectations low, expect anything" Yadda Yadda Yadda, im a big boy. I can handle a deconfirm, IF it happens. Just let me have this, ok?

 

[LogFrog]

In all honesty, where did this resurgence of Steve certainy come from? Like there is nothing really pointing towards him other than subjective speculation

Vergeben, probably. Considering I’ve never seen so much people advocate for Steve than ever. It’s not necessarily a bad thing, but what sucks is that you can never talk about Banjo without someone bringing up Steve.

Though, maybe I just haven’t been paying attention?

 

[MangoTwist]

Can someone provide video proof of DH crashing a single-player mode? I see this claimed a lot but I have not seen proof. Cant find it on youtube

(Im not asking to see DH down B/Mii neutr-b glitch)

 

[N3ON]

Weird. I could've sworn not a single hater was in this thread for pages on end, over 20 pages at least. Everybody was reasonable about it. I do agree the post calling people "rabid fanboys" was absolutely uncalled for, but it did have a legit point to make. Too many assumptions. Even then, could've been handled a bit better.

You'll never be a successful demagogue with that attitude.

I view having content from a franchise as is a good thing, no matter how little it is. The fact Golden Sun got anything decent compared to 4 is great in itself. I wanted Isaac playable too, but a Mii costume is a step in the right direction. Though I don't feel his chances are good unless he gets another game, but then again, with nearly every all-star being in Smash among Nintendo's characters, it's pretty hard for Isaac not to be at least considered. Though I admit being a niche game isn't helping at times.

Of course. Do you think the Saki fans (those that remain) or the Tingle fans or the Advance Wars fans are happier that the AT has now been axed after two games? I mean they're not playable, and their AT is gone. That is, somehow, regarded as the second best outcome we can get.

Snark aside, I understand what people are saying, but it seems a very spiteful perspective to have. In the face of the fact that we're not actually owed anything, I'm happy to get as much spotlight shone on series I like as possible.

But yeah, as for Isaac, I don't think he'll get in until and unless GS4 happens. And I don't know if it ever will.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I still think Banjo has the best shot if you consider ingame evidence. I’m still confounded by the mii swordfighter and duck hunt dog thing as it still is tough to consider what might have actually happened with those two characters. If you ask me, mii swordfighter might’ve been used as a base for Joker and Duck Hunt for Banjo. Going by the param theory and “brave’s” stats, it makes sense to me. I’m sorry If I’m clinging on to this theory way too much, but I’d rather actual evidence in the code rather than just baseless, fake leaks.

There is no real in-game evidence. People need to let that go.

The so-called Rare spirits are questionable at best. What it is is Nintendo-owned properties that they thought they had full ownership of, but all it was was the name of the franchise that they really own. No more, no less. That means there's no good reason to believe they was any talk to Microsoft. It could've happened, and stuff was decided for DLC. But there's a difference between possible and actual evidence. The other datamine stuff is too theoretical and doesn't necessarily hold up. There's no reason to believe that those two causing glitches anything to do with Joker or B&K. PP caused glitches too. It just means the characters got updated, and somebody made an error when working with the data. It happened similarly when Mewtwo was first released in Smash 4. Glitches happen. They aren't perfect. Code is super fickle. You can make Brave's stats onto multiple characters as is. There's no actual datamine evidence it's connected to Duck Hunt whatsoever, nor is there evidence that Jack's data is connected to Mii Swordfighter. They're fine entirely as theories. But they are not "evidence". They're fine theories of course, but that's all they are. If you let yourself be connected to them too much, imagine what happens if they turn out to not be real. You'll feel too burned. That's why it's better to just not use them as evidence or not take them that seriously.

You'll never be a successful demagogue with that attitude.

I legit don't know what a demagogue is.

Of course. Do you think the Saki fans (those that remain) or the Tingle fans or the Advance Wars fans are happier that the AT has now been axed after two games? I mean they're not playable, and their AT is gone. That is, somehow, regarded as the second best outcome we can get.

Snark aside, I understand what people are saying, but it seems a very spiteful perspective to have. In the face of the fact that we're not actually owed anything, I'm happy to get as much spotlight shone on series I like as possible.

But yeah, as for Isaac, I don't think he'll get in until and unless GS4 happens. And I don't know if it ever will.

I get it too. I just don't like the spite myself. Sure, I might secretly be happy something in my favor happens, but that doesn't mean it should be said in public either. As human beings, we all have biases and such. The key part is knowing when to speak it. Also, where's my Tingle costume, damnit?!

Only caveat for Tingle fans is he returned as a stage hazard, I guess?

 

[LogFrog]

Ok, fine. It’s not actual evidence; it’s just a theory. I’m just trying to be optimistic here, but It’s hard to do so when all the evidence that Banjo won’t be in far outweighs evidence that he will be in.

 

[MissingGlitch]

Every character right now consists of nothing but theories not going to lie. Even the more popular choices currently like Erdrick and Steve are nothing but theories.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ok, fine. It’s not actual evidence; it’s just a theory. I’m just trying to be optimistic here, but It’s hard to do so when all the evidence that Banjo won’t be in far outweighs evidence that he will be in.

It's an unfortunate thing in that regard, yeah.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic. But it's best to not cling onto something that is farfetched as well. I think the fact he's a high request and Sakurai would likely say yes is a good reason to be optimistic alone. You don't need theories that require a bit of stretching to work for that. He's a likely character in the long run among the Microsoft reps. And honestly, I think he will show up in some form if we get Microsoft content as is. I mean, sure, I can't guarantee that, but I predict he will under this condition(I also predict Minecraft and Halo content are an equal guarantee in this particular context too. But hey, I could easily be wrong. If I am, fair enough, heh).

 

[dlewis53]

To put my two cents in, if Banjo-Kazooie end up a Mii costume...I'm sorry, that would feel like a slap in the face, even more-so than if they weren't in at all. And regarding "the next game", the main reason why I want them in Ultimate specifically is because it's the most special Smash game in the series because it brought everyone back; there were no cuts whatsoever, and Sakurai's already confirmed that if there is a next game, then pulling a repeat of that would be unlikely. I apologize if this comes off as somewhat petty, but it's honestly how I would feel if they don't get in this game as actual fighters.

 

[N3ON]

I legit don't know what a demagogue is.

Someone who rallies support using biases and prejudices rather than more impartial rationale.

Wouldn't know anyone like that though...

I get it too. I just don't like the spite myself. Sure, I might secretly be happy something in my favor happens, but that doesn't mean it should be said in public either. As human beings, we all have biases and such. The key part is knowing when to speak it. Also, where's my Tingle costume, damnit?!

It's a compromise, and sometimes that's the most you can get out of a situation. Turning that down just seems kinda childish to me, especially since it's not like both sides hold equal power here.

Though I don't think there's anything wrong with being outwardly happy when you get something you were hoping for, that's certainly not the same as shoving a bias in someone's face.

 

[SpectreJordan]

We have no clue how the rest of the DLC is gonna go yet. Because even Joker is a real odd ball choice. He hasn't had the largest fan begging compared to other fanbases. And from a business standpoint (and from what we have seen so far) Nintendo is really getting nothing back in return from it. There is still no announced Persona 5 switch port, and I highly doubt very many people bought the fighter pass because Joker was all they needed to convince them.

What? Joker had the most positive reaction from the community after K Rool; people went crazy over him, people are definitely excited by the Pass just because of him.

There wasn’t a lot of support for him only because he was seen as impossible. He’s a very new character & is only on PS4; that didn’t seem like it’d add up to him being a Smash character.

There was another post where someone said that Phil alone doesn’t have the power to get Banjo in. When it comes to the MS side of things, I’m pretty sure he is. He’s the head of the Xbox division; afaik you can’t get higher than that within the Xbox side of things.

Everyone above him wouldn’t care about something like Smash Bros, as they’re focused on Microsoft overall instead of just Xbox/gaming.

I honestly feel like Phil would vouch for Banjo. He knows it’s what the fans want & like I’ve theroized before, I feel MS has plans for the series. So Smash would be a great revive to bring the series back into the public eye.

My main problem is that I feel like Nintendo would choose Minecraft instead. It really depends on if they think Banjo’s fan demand or Minecraft’s overall success would generate more sales/hype.

While I feel Phil would vouch for Banjo, I don’t think he would fight too hard for him if Nintendo wanted someone else.

 

[LogFrog]

As for a Banjo mii costume, here’s how I see it. It’s like being promised a big, juicy, delicious, and quality steak only to then receive a tv dinner steak. Sure you still get your steak, but you still end up wishing you got the better steak instead.

 

[osby]

As for a Banjo mii costume, here’s how I see it. It’s like being promised a big, juicy, delicious, and quality steak only to then receive a tv dinner steak. Sure you still get your steak, but you still end up wishing you got the better steak instead.

Nobody promised anything about Banjo-Kazooie content, though.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Someone who rallies support using biases and prejudices rather than more impartial rationale.

Wouldn't know anyone like that though...

Though to be fair, it's kind of hard not to do that in some cases for lesser series. But I'm not sure if I'm doing that for my Quest support? I always worry it's too shoehorned in, even when the example makes some sense. Anyway, I agree. Rationale or bust. It's probably due to my "I try my damnest to be very honest" flaw/feature.

It's a compromise, and sometimes that's the most you can get out of a situation. Turning that down just seems kinda childish to me, especially since it's not like both sides hold equal power here.

Though I don't think there's anything wrong with being outwardly happy when you get something you were hoping for, that's certainly not the same as shoving a bias in someone's face.

Yeah. I hate the shoving bias part the most. You were right. Cool. Bragging about it reflects poorly on you. No need to do so. I mean, slightly mentioning it if it comes might be fine sometimes(like I sometimes mention that I was damn sure Isabelle wouldn't be an echo if it's literally brought up why Sakurai didn't make her one), but beyond that is kind of uncalled for. Being happy you were right isn't the same thing. I'm a bit tired, so I should've made my point more clear. Thanks for saying it better than I did.

I do like the compromise angle. I'll take it over "nothing". If Banjo doesn't become playable, any foot in the door would only increase his overall chances. Sure, he might stay a cameo(poor Isaac), but he might not. But it won't hurt because your character is actually in.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I still think Mii costumes are horrible consultation prizes. All they really do is make you wish you were playing the actual character.

 

[LogFrog]

Nobody promised anything about Banjo-Kazooie content, though.

I’m just speaking hypothetically if somehow we knew Banjo-Kazooie was going to be represented in Smash. “Promise” may be a stretch sure, but I’m still sticking with my TV dinner analogy.

 

[osby]

I’m just speaking hypothetically if somehow we knew Banjo-Kazooie was going to be represented in Smash. “Promise” may be a stretch sure, but I’m still sticking with my TV dinner analogy.

You can, but it's a very bad analogy that paints you as a victim when you're really not.

I still think Mii costumes are horrible consultation prizes. All they really do is make you wish you were playing the actual character.

That's subjective. I'm going to wish I could play as Spring Man no matter what, but at least I can now see his lookalike on battlefield. Better than nothing for me.

 

[MissingGlitch]

That's subjective. I'm going to wish I could play as Spring Man no matter what, but at least I can now see his lookalike on battlefield. Better than nothing for me.

Different mindsets I guess. Because all I will be thinking the whole time is stuff like "I don't feel like I'm playing Banjo. I would rather be playing Banjo" and would prefer to just not see it and act like it doesn't exist.

And besides. The mii costumes based off animal characters tend to look really bad. Like the mii decided to just skin off an animal and wear it's skin. The human mii costumes a lot of the time at least do a somewhat decent job of giving you the illusion of disbelief like Issac's.

 

[Mr. Stagg]

It's an unfortunate thing in that regard, yeah.

Nothing wrong with being optimistic. But it's best to not cling onto something that is farfetched as well. I think the fact he's a high request and Sakurai would likely say yes is a good reason to be optimistic alone. You don't need theories that require a bit of stretching to work for that. He's a likely character in the long run among the Microsoft reps. And honestly, I think he will show up in some form if we get Microsoft content as is. I mean, sure, I can't guarantee that, but I predict he will under this condition(I also predict Minecraft and Halo content are an equal guarantee in this particular context too. But hey, I could easily be wrong. If I am, fair enough, heh).

Can you at least offer us something we all can agree on in regards to Banjo's chances as a fighter? None of this Mii fighter stuff, a legit, 100% main line fighter. I'm not looking for excuses, I just want to hear what you think they've got going for them. What can we look at in regards to the Duo that gives us hope? Since you and N3ON are the usual voices of contention lets hear your reasons why they are likely.

I feel like a lot of this back and forth about Steve and various theories rattles people the wrong way when all we want is to have a little fun talking about Banjo and Kazooie with memes involved, lets get something we all can agree on. Lets try to get a little positivity going here. This is a support thread, right? What supports our cause here?