Bandana Dee, the Legend of Dee - Our Star Ally as DeeLC?! (v(- ' ' -)>↑

Chandeelure

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He was talking about this.



Also, new Kirby stainless tumblers.


One of the designs has the four main characters!
 

FancySmash

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He was talking about this.



Also, new Kirby stainless tumblers.


One of the designs has the four main characters!
This just makes it quite clear that if Kirby got another character, it would be Bandana Dee. Though that's the thing. If Kirby gets another character.
sigh
One day Modern Kirby will get appropriate recognition in Smash. One day...
 
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Dorayaki

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Personally I'm half supporter. While I think Kirby lacks more reps, I'm not very sure Bandana is totally qualified as the 4th.

Yes, in Nintendo's priority, I see that Bandana has done some mainstream playable apeearances as the 4th hero after the three we all know. But arguably he is not the equivalent with Toad in Mario series for historical reasons. His image as an individual wasn't built that long ago. Marx, Adeleine or Chuchu were introduced as individual characters way earlier than him in Kirby history, despite none of them keep their mainstream major roles in later games. The way they create Bandana is kinda like Goombette or Kooper in Mario franchise.

It may be my personal bias, or the way to justfify this is giving us a game story that focuses more on Bandana as an individual with personality as visivle as Dedede and Meta Knight.
 

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Personally I'm half supporter. While I think Kirby lacks more reps, I'm not very sure Bandana is totally qualified as the 4th.

Yes, in Nintendo's priority, I see that Bandana has done some mainstream playable apeearances as the 4th hero after the three we all know. But arguably he is not the equivalent with Toad in Mario series for historical reasons. His image as an individual wasn't built that long ago. Marx, Adeleine or Chuchu were introduced as individual characters way earlier than him in Kirby history, despite none of them keep their mainstream major roles in later games. The way they create Bandana is kinda like Goombette or Kooper in Mario franchise.

It may be my personal bias, or the way to justfify this is giving us a game story that focuses more on Bandana as an individual with personality as visivle as Dedede and Meta Knight.
hey toad as an individual was with super mario bros 2
 

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That's it. Toad's origin as individual or as player was pretty early for Mario series, so that's the difference.
but toad also has the advantage of having a large presence in many games since then where as a lot of characters whove been around for longer than bandana havent
 

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Bandanna Waddle Dee was an individual pretty early on. The only real difference between him and Toad is Toad didn't get a hat to show he's an individual. Bandanna Waddle Dee has made more than one playable appearance as the de facto Player 4. That's his role. He doesn't need to have extra personality either. It's a simple one, like a lot of the Kirby games are. Besides, considering how non-complex the Mario cast even is, Bandanna Waddle Dee is pretty much your Toad, a distinct person who doesn't need massively unique personality to to do so.

...Never mind that it doesn't matter if it's a species or an individual member of the species to get into Smash anyway. Not every Pokemon is an actual specific member either. Squirtle and Ivysaur sure aren't. Charizard is the only one resembling the anime version. Greninja didn't become individualized till Ultimate actually having it borrow from anime in multiple ways. And so on. So it really doesn't matter how "individual" the character is or not. The actual closest thing to unique that is relevant is that they have "a thing they and only they can do", which is based upon moveset, something that matters in Smash.
 

Dorayaki

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Bandanna Waddle Dee was an individual pretty early on. The only real difference between him and Toad is Toad didn't get a hat to show he's an individual. Bandanna Waddle Dee has made more than one playable appearance as the de facto Player 4. That's his role. He doesn't need to have extra personality either. It's a simple one, like a lot of the Kirby games are. Besides, considering how non-complex the Mario cast even is, Bandanna Waddle Dee is pretty much your Toad, a distinct person who doesn't need massively unique personality to to do so.

...Never mind that it doesn't matter if it's a species or an individual member of the species to get into Smash anyway.
I get your idea and agree that Bandana is a capable fighter if he is in Smash.
What concerns me is whether Nintendo consider him as iconic or uinque as the previous three Kirby reps since he didn't get a well-developed story/personality when he got promoted from a generic foe. I wonder if this is the reason for him to not be chosen at this point, or if he's chance is still 50/50 with other Kirby characters.
Yes, that is sorta the same potential problem for Toad not getting in Smash yet (not as eye-catching as other Mario allstars.)
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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I get your idea and agree that Bandana is a capable fighter if he is in Smash.
What concerns me is whether Nintendo consider him as iconic or uinque with the previous three Kirby reps as he didn't get a well-developed story/personality when he got promoted from a generic foe. Yes, that is sorta the same potential problem for Toad not getting in Smash yet (not as eye-catching as other Mario allstars.)
Toad's actual issue isn't a lack of personality, it's that he has no abilities only he can do. Bandanna Waddle Dee sticks out more due to having some unique stuff in his moveset that other Kirby characters doesn't do. Many of the Spear techniques alone, which is only shared by Waddle Dees at best, his species. So that's hardly an issue either. It's more Toad and Bandanna Waddle Dee are characters with distinct personalities, yet still not in. Whereas those with little personality can still be in(hi, Wii Fit Trainer). Personality is not a key factor.

Toad's eye-catching on his own, but again, lacks distinctive abilities. The only thing that was unique at best was being Peach's Guard, which he still does in Smash anyway, so at least it's still accurate. But definitely not as sweet as a playable Toad. Given time, this may change. Captain Toad does stand out separately(but is a different character anyway), but who knows why he isn't playable.
 

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"Boring protagonist" is unlikely the issue, since the title of "protagonist" basically ensures thos characters a slot in Smash. The case of Toad and Bandana is about "shadowed sidekicks" when they're compared with the leading heroes on their team.
Yes, it's a good point that Bandana is relatively more unique than Toad for his specialty of weapon. Plant piranha would be the best example of chosen due to its unique fight abilities that only its species has regardless of how their individual personalities are.
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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"Boring protagonist" is unlikely the issue, since the title of "protagonist" basically ensures thos characters a slot in Smash. The case of Toad and Bandana is about "shadowed sidekicks" when they're compared with the leading heroes on their team.
Yes, it's a good point that Bandana is relatively more unique than Toad for his specialty of weapon. Plant piranha would be the best example of chosen due to its unique fight abilities that only its species has regardless of how their individual personalities are.
Boring Protagonist is a misleading term here. Toad isn't boring at all. Remember, personality just isn't the issue here. Toad really isn't a sidekick anyway. He's a main protagonist multiple times and is a partner. Sidekick would mean he fights constantly while the main person is the stronger one. But he doesn't really do anything like that. As Peach's guard, he fights when Peach doesn't, as per his normal role. He's otherwise a regular protagonist who fights, usually among a group(like Super Mario Bros. 2 USA or NSMB) equally.

Yoshi is the closest thing to a sidekick character in the Mario series, despite breaking out into his own games. Bandanna Waddle Dee might be a bit more sidekick-like, though. But to be fair, even King Dedede gets sidekick roles, like in Kirby 64.
 

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He was talking about this.
I forgot to say this week's character was Kirby!

(Translation in the comments of the tweet)

Next week's will probably be Meta Knight and then Bandana Dee or maybe the Waddle Dee species.
 
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11th

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I feel for silly asking, but:
Does anyone have a clearer clip of the interrupted ("pole vault") version of Dee's Ground Thrust? I can barely find any footage of the normal version being used, let alone the interrupted one, and it would be nice to have as a reference.

(If you don't know what I'm talking about, see 0:08 in this clip.)
 
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random rendum

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Toad's actual issue isn't a lack of personality, it's that he has no abilities only he can do. Bandanna Waddle Dee sticks out more due to having some unique stuff in his moveset that other Kirby characters doesn't do. Many of the Spear techniques alone, which is only shared by Waddle Dees at best, his species. So that's hardly an issue either. It's more Toad and Bandanna Waddle Dee are characters with distinct personalities, yet still not in. Whereas those with little personality can still be in(hi, Wii Fit Trainer). Personality is not a key factor.

Toad's eye-catching on his own, but again, lacks distinctive abilities. The only thing that was unique at best was being Peach's Guard, which he still does in Smash anyway, so at least it's still accurate. But definitely not as sweet as a playable Toad. Given time, this may change. Captain Toad does stand out separately(but is a different character anyway), but who knows why he isn't playable.
I guess you've played no games with Toad in them. Because that's wrong.
 

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I guess you've played no games with Toad in them. Because that's wrong.
I've played almost every game with Toad in 'em. Now, if you're done with false accusations, you should be able to point out where he has abilities nobody else can do among the games. And I don't mean Captain Toad, a different character, but the original Toad.

I've wanted Toad for ages, but I cannot think of any games where he has actual unique abilities(from the rest of the cast). He does a lot, as does much of the Mario cast, but unlike some, he can't even work as a clone due to a different body type, which leaves it pretty hard to make a distinct moveset. It is ironic, however, that his role in Smash does match his most distinct thing(being Peach's Guard). I hope it changes from that, but I doubt that'll happen till they start making him distinct from the rest of the cast. It doesn't help that he rarely is playable where he isn't equivalent to the rest of the cast, which makes it impossible for him to have a distinct mechanic, since they have to be all the same. One of the very few games where he isn't playable among the regular Mario cast is Wario's Woords, but all the other enemies are identical as is bar their sprite, so it's not like he stands out ability-wise there either. They could take a bit of inspiration from it, though.
 

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I've played almost every game with Toad in 'em. Now, if you're done with false accusations, you should be able to point out where he has abilities nobody else can do among the games. And I don't mean Captain Toad, a different character, but the original Toad.

I've wanted Toad for ages, but I cannot think of any games where he has actual unique abilities(from the rest of the cast). He does a lot, as does much of the Mario cast, but unlike some, he can't even work as a clone due to a different body type, which leaves it pretty hard to make a distinct moveset. It is ironic, however, that his role in Smash does match his most distinct thing(being Peach's Guard). I hope it changes from that, but I doubt that'll happen till they start making him distinct from the rest of the cast. It doesn't help that he rarely is playable where he isn't equivalent to the rest of the cast, which makes it impossible for him to have a distinct mechanic, since they have to be all the same. One of the very few games where he isn't playable among the regular Mario cast is Wario's Woords, but all the other enemies are identical as is bar their sprite, so it's not like he stands out ability-wise there either. They could take a bit of inspiration from it, though.
making a distinct moveset wouldnt be the problem and seeing as its seemingly due him have nothing that he and only he can do comes across as a bit unfair when rosalina got in with out such things and jr got in with out using his unique stuff

but thats best for our main toad thread
 
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Personally I'm half supporter. While I think Kirby lacks more reps, I'm not very sure Bandana is totally qualified as the 4th.

Yes, in Nintendo's priority, I see that Bandana has done some mainstream playable apeearances as the 4th hero after the three we all know. But arguably he is not the equivalent with Toad in Mario series for historical reasons. His image as an individual wasn't built that long ago. Marx, Adeleine or Chuchu were introduced as individual characters way earlier than him in Kirby history, despite none of them keep their mainstream major roles in later games. The way they create Bandana is kinda like Goombette or Kooper in Mario franchise.

It may be my personal bias, or the way to justfify this is giving us a game story that focuses more on Bandana as an individual with personality as visivle as Dedede and Meta Knight.
Marx, Adeleine, and Chuchu only played major roles in one game before all reappearing in Star Allies. Bandana Dee from my knowledge has played major roles in several games so even though he didn't really become a important member of the cast until Return to Dreamland, I really wouldn't put any other Kirby character that isn't in Smash yet at a higher tier of importance as Bandana Dee.
 

Dorayaki

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Marx, Adeleine, and Chuchu only played major roles in one game before all reappearing in Star Allies. Bandana Dee from my knowledge has played major roles in several games so even though he didn't really become a important member of the cast until Return to Dreamland, I really wouldn't put any other Kirby character that isn't in Smash yet at a higher tier of importance as Bandana Dee.
The contradiction I wanted to pointed out is the order. It's not that they promote any of the past major character or tried to gave us the Bandana Dee before giving us other characters that are clearly meant to only play a one-off major role, such as Prince Fluff form Yarn Kirby.

I feel the point is kinda like NIntendo didn't try to push a main cast (consist of more than four mains) for Kirby games in early times, unlike Mario or DK series. It is always strange to me that they skipped several popular dream friends and cartoon characters before sticking to Bandana Dee.
 

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The contradiction I wanted to pointed out is the order. It's not that they promote any of the past major character or tried to gave us the Bandana Dee before giving us other characters that are clearly meant to only play a one-off major role, such as Prince Fluff form Yarn Kirby.

I feel the point is kinda like NIntendo didn't try to push a main cast (consist of more than four mains) for Kirby games in early times, unlike Mario or DK series. It is always strange to me that they skipped several popular dream friends and cartoon characters before sticking to Bandana Dee.
perhaps they just loved bandana
 
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I forgot to say this week's character was Kirby!

Next week's will probably be Meta Knight and then Bandana Dee or maybe the Waddle Dee species.
That's it, come next Smash when Bandana Dee gets in, Dedede's Enlightenment needs to be the next Palutena's Guidance, where you need Bandana Dee to activate it and Dedede explains the character to him.

This needs to happen. :laugh:
 
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That's it, come next Smash when Bandana Dee gets in, Dedede's Enlightenment needs to be the next Palutena's Guidance, where you need Bandana Dee to activate it and Dedede explains the character to him.

This needs to happen. :laugh:
I was actually thinking they should add the Meta Knight's conversations on Halberd, but this would be awesome too!
 

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The contradiction I wanted to pointed out is the order. It's not that they promote any of the past major character or tried to gave us the Bandana Dee before giving us other characters that are clearly meant to only play a one-off major role, such as Prince Fluff form Yarn Kirby.

I feel the point is kinda like NIntendo didn't try to push a main cast (consist of more than four mains) for Kirby games in early times, unlike Mario or DK series. It is always strange to me that they skipped several popular dream friends and cartoon characters before sticking to Bandana Dee.
Kirby, Meta Knight, and King Dedede have been eternal staples in the Kirby series, starring in their own respective games and sub-games for years to come.

I can't imagine any other Kirby character nearing that position except Bandana Dee for the time being. All he really needs at this point is his own game/sub-game. He already has the relevancy of Modern Kirby and at the very least has been present in the series since 1994.

If it weren't for Star Allies/Dream Friends a substantial chunk of Kirby characters would've still been gone, but not forgotten, and Bandana Dee probably would've gotten his very own sub-game according to HAL if it weren't everyone wanting a piece of the spotlight as well.
 
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Considering all the supposed rules that have been broken with this game, no irrelevant characters, no characters with no appearances on Nintendo consoles, too big for Smash, etc...

I wonder if we should consider it an honor that No Modern Kirby is one of the few rules still standing. Fan rules anyways...
 

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Considering all the supposed rules that have been broken with this game, no irrelevant characters, no characters with no appearances on Nintendo consoles, too big for Smash, etc...

I wonder if we should consider it an honor that No Modern Kirby is one of the few rules still standing. Fan rules anyways...
This... isn't exactly accurate.

1. Banjo-Kazooie as a series was fully kept relevant with Merchandise, tons of promotion, and an active product with Rare Replay. It didn't get a new game, but it still got something new with the franchise.

2. Every playable character still has had a Nintendo appearance. Including Joker. It's a fan-rule that should die, though. It has never been a hard rule at any point, and was cited as something he took into account at best. At one point we had a poor translation that said it was a hard rule. That was fixed ages ago. At best having a Nintendo appearance is useful for negotiation, but it doesn't matter otherwise. Sakurai does not care about the console war crap, and for good reasons, has little worry about them having a Nintendo appearance. Besides that, did you mean someone other than Joker? Cause there are a small amount of characters that don't have even a partial cameo(like Master Chief) that could be a fun and interesting character.

3. Ridley got a new model just so he can be shrunk down. Mind you, his bad proportions were actually an issue in previous games, mostly 4 where Sakurai considered him for being playable. In addition, Ridley's size was part of his characterization, so it wasn't simply "he's always too big", but a part of their overall character and personality.

The only fan-rule(which is not exactly what people think it is) that so far has had little chance of dying is the Relevancy rule at this time. It however was only given in context for 1st Parties to begin with, and only has been ignored for Retro options or Surprise Characters. Ones like Isaac were still hit by this criteria. It's one that likely will still affect as is. It's however more done because they have tons of viable options but can't add everyone under the sun. Many of these often become AT's as a consolation prize. Or Trophies/Stickers/etc.
 
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Considering all the supposed rules that have been broken with this game, no irrelevant characters, no characters with no appearances on Nintendo consoles, too big for Smash, etc...

I wonder if we should consider it an honor that No Modern Kirby is one of the few rules still standing. Fan rules anyways...
*cries while saluting* At least we got something huh folks?
 
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Considering all the supposed rules that have been broken with this game, no irrelevant characters, no characters with no appearances on Nintendo consoles, too big for Smash, etc...

I wonder if we should consider it an honor that No Modern Kirby is one of the few rules still standing. Fan rules anyways...
"No assist trophies" rule is the next to be broken

CHEF KAWASAKI
COOKS UP A FIGHT
 

Ahm Skittish!

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The longest-standing arbitrary fan-rule that a character can't become playable if they're already an assist trophy.
In the same game. Which is far more clear version. I know what you meant, but your statement can be confusing due to how broad it is.
 
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This... isn't exactly accurate.

1. Banjo-Kazooie as a series was fully kept relevant with Merchandise, tons of promotion, and an active product with Rare Replay. It didn't get a new game, but it still got something new with the franchise.

2. Every playable character still has had a Nintendo appearance. Including Joker. It's a fan-rule that should die, though. It has never been a hard rule at any point, and was cited as something he took into account at best. At one point we had a poor translation that said it was a hard rule. That was fixed ages ago. At best having a Nintendo appearance is useful for negotiation, but it doesn't matter otherwise. Sakurai does not care about the console war crap, and for good reasons, has little worry about them having a Nintendo appearance. Besides that, did you mean someone other than Joker? Cause there are a small amount of characters that don't have even a partial cameo(like Master Chief) that could be a fun and interesting character.

3. Ridley got a new model just so he can be shrunk down. Mind you, his bad proportions were actually an issue in previous games, mostly 4 where Sakurai considered him for being playable. In addition, Ridley's size was part of his characterization, so it wasn't simply "he's always too big", but a part of their overall character and personality.

The only fan-rule(which is not exactly what people think it is) that so far has had little chance of dying is the Relevancy rule at this time. It however was only given in context for 1st Parties to begin with, and only has been ignored for Retro options or Surprise Characters. Ones like Isaac were still hit by this criteria. It's one that likely will still affect as is. It's however more done because they have tons of viable options but can't add everyone under the sun. Many of these often become AT's as a consolation prize. Or Trophies/Stickers/etc.
Uh, I think it'd be easier if I respond in a similar way to how you formatted the reply. :laugh:

1. Hmm, that's true that Banjo has had merchandise and re-releases to keep him in the spotlight, but I was also thinking of K. Rool. Granted, he's been in many spin-offs, but not a major appearance in any DKC games in quite a while. Though I do see where you're coming from, that they're still kept in people's mind.

2. Joker was one I was thinking of, but also Cloud to an extent. None of them have had major appearances, but at the very least had cameos. It's also important to note that at least these series have all at one point been on a Nintendo console... well, in Persona's case, Shin Megami Tensei has been on Nintendo consoles. That said, I think the main reason for wanting characters with some kind of presence on a Nintendo console is mainly so people can experience the series after playing the character in Smash. For someone who's never played Persona, and only has Nintendo consoles, experiencing the series is a little difficult after seeing Joker in Smash.

3. I always found this one kinda weird since we've had :ultbowser: in Smash since the second game. Hasn't he had similar issues with size and proportions? Eh, actually, his size is never consistent anyways. :p

As for the Relevancy rule... yeah. Unless you're :ultkrool:, who had galleon loads of support, you really need to be relevant to get in. I think this rule really hits the Pokemon and Fire Emblem series the most, who almost always gets one new character per entry, but it can never be an old fan favorite, it's always gotta be new. So, I guess we're getting there in baby steps.

"No assist trophies" rule is the next to be broken

CHEF KAWASAKI
COOKS UP A FIGHT
I, uh, don't think Kawasaki will be the one to get the upgrade. Fans seem to be rallying for a certain individual clad in purple...

So you know what that means...
1563906178800.png
 

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FancySmash FancySmash It seems more like the series needs to be relevant, not the character alone. DKC never stopped being relevant as is. Meanwhile, Golden Sun has yet to get a playable character, and it definitely wasn't relevant during Ultimate. It was lucky enough to get a lot of content, though. If Golden Sun relevant, even if Isaac wasn't in that game, he'd have a way better chances of getting in.

Take a look at our Castlevania characters for a good example of that; Castlevania was kept relevant for a while now(the tv show and Pachinko machines obviously don't tie to Simon or Richter, but the series is more important alone). If both didn't exist, which I still believe wouldn't really affect Simon and Richter getting in, the relevancy argument being dead would actually hold a lot more water. Right now, it really doesn't, especially for 3rd parties. So far all were currently relevant when added to Smash.

Which is ironic, since it was never mentioned once as a criteria towards them(just 1st parties. And we definitely see that relevancy has affected 1st parties before. Wolf was unfortunate timing because no new games were coming out soon. Falco probably had enough popularity and veteran status(via 2 games) to stay in, coupled with being a semi-clone. Lucas is an odd one, but no new Mother games, or even re-releases, were coming out soon. Ness obviously being cut would be silly since he was there first at that point. One thing was Melee, where Sakurai was more willing to cut characters, even those who were there before similar ones, but Brawl and 4 were a bit different. Other than semi-replacements, like Toon Link for Young Link, cuts were done a lot more carefully. Mewtwo is another oddball, as it's not clear why he wasn't in Brawl or why he was lower priority than most. He was probably harder to program at that point, after you got the major ones in. Jigglypuff obviously was an easier one to do so. So lower priority. Could also be Gamefreak or something).
 
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