Bandana Dee, the Legend of Dee - Our Star Ally as DeeLC?! (v(- ' ' -)>↑

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Kirby's current moveset? Personally, I think Smash 4's custom moves would've been a perfect opportunity to see more copy abilities for his moves. Imagine:
1. Final Cutter
2. Wing Shuttle Loop
3. Jet Jump
Those would've made great recovery options easy.

Also, I expect conversation to pick up again if we get a second fighter pass that's all Nintendo characters. At that point, I'd fully expect spirits back on the table.
I said it before, and I'll say it again; I don't think a 2nd pass is happening, but given that there is a 2nd pass: I think it will be either all 3rd parties again or 4/5 3rd parties with a promotional Nintendo rep who doesn't have a spirit or any role in the game, like the Howard twins (Astral Chain), Euden (Dragalia Lost) a Galar Pokemon or (oh boy) Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses). This is mainly because of the precedent that Smash 4 set. Almost every newcomer was a 3rd party who was never in the game in any way shape or form. The sole exceptions were either veterans or the 2 Nintendo newcomers that were part of a promotion of some kind. Looking at past patterns, I think there's a 95% chance that all of the raining DLC characters for Ultimate are going to be 3rd party, even if there's a Fighter Pass 2. After all, remember that Reggie said all of the DLC fighters would be like Joker, implying that the 3rd party precedent from Smash 4 would stay in place, and looking at :ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie:, it's safe to say that it is the case.

Regardless, Sakurai also said that he wants to take a break during a direct (not an interview. Direct), so a fighter pass 2 is probably out of the running.
 
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I said it before, and I'll say it again; I don't think a 2nd pass is happening, but given that there is a 2nd pass: I think it will be either all 3rd parties again or 4/5 3rd parties with a promotional Nintendo rep who doesn't have a spirit or any role in the game, like the Howard twins (Astral Chain), Euden (Dragalia Lost) a Galar Pokemon or (oh boy) Byleth (Fire Emblem: Three Houses). This is mainly because of the precedent that Smash 4 set. Almost every newcomer was a 3rd party who was never in the game in any way shape or form. The sole exceptions were either veterans or the 2 Nintendo newcomers that were part of a promotion of some kind. Looking at past patterns, I think there's a 95% chance that all of the raining DLC characters for Ultimate are going to be 3rd party, even if there's a Fighter Pass 2. After all, remember that Reggie said all of the DLC fighters would be like Joker, implying that the 3rd party precedent from Smash 4 would stay in place, and looking at :ultjoker::ulthero::ultbanjokazooie:, it's safe to say that it is the case.

Regardless, Sakurai also said that he wants to take a break during a direct (not an interview. Direct), so a fighter pass 2 is probably out of the running.
I do understand Sakurai getting some rest, but that's why I think a second fighter pass is a great idea. During this supposed second pass, Sakurai could just leave someone he trusts in charge of things while he takes a vacation. If things prove well, this person could take over for him in later installments down the line, since he's said before he wants to get away from the series. I agree with you though, it's not likely, but it's a nice dream.
 

JCKirbs

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What do y'all think of Kirby moveset and could it better.
My friend and I came up with this cool idea that would probably even cut back on the amount of time that needs to be spent working on Kirby's Copy Abilities. This does come at the expense of all of the character-related hats he wears, though.

So basically,
- Kirby alone would use Smash Bros. Kirby as a base.
- When Kirby inhales a fighter, he will then get a copy ability that best fits the character, like in his actual games.

For example, if Kirby inhales charactes like Mario, Luigi, Bowser, or Charizard he will be granted the Fire Ability
For characters like Link, Marth, and Meta Knight, he will be granted the Sword Ability
For characters like Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo, he will be granted the ESP Ability and so on.

Of course for certain characters, like Pac-Man, it might be a little tough to choose which ability goes with some characters, but I think that abilities that at least relate to the character, like the Bell Ability due to Pac-Man having a Bell attack, could also work as well.

Once Kirby has an ability, he would be granted an entirely new moveset based on the ability (and the moves can easily take pointers from the series itself), and at that point, he would probably have move original moves than even Hero.
 
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So I was randomly searching Bandana Dee images on Google, and I came across this.
View attachment 233468
Honestly, if we did get a sequel anime to Kirby: Right Back at Ya, I'd totally be OK with this design for Bandana Dee who replaces Escargoon or Waddle Doo. Waddle Doo would make the most sense, as he's the leader of the Waddle Dee army in the show, and Bandana Dee, as the strongest Waddle Dee, fits that role perfectly, but I'd really like to see him as Dedede's right hand man. Of course, it'd be hard to see Escargoon go, but I'd be down with Escargoon making cameos every now and then.
King Dedede: Waddle Dee!

Bandana Dee: That's Bandana Dee sire.

King Dedede: Whatever! Anyways, Escargoon couldn't do **** so I kicked him out of my castle after Nightmare Enterprises went 'KABOOM!'. I can't order me anymore monsters. :cry: So I want you to clobber that der Kurbey!

Bandana Dee: Is that all sire?

King Dedede: I WANT YOU TO CLOBBER DAT DER KURBEY!!!
 
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Guynamednelson

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On the Smash website, Piranha Plant is associated with green, Joker with red, Hero with Purple, and Banjo with yellow. Thus, some people have come up with the assumption that one of the remaining FP characters will be associated with orange and the other blue. Which is kind of dumb because they could always have a color such as a darker purple or brown or even white.
 

Pokelego999

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On the Smash website, Piranha Plant is associated with green, Joker with red, Hero with Purple, and Banjo with yellow. Thus, some people have come up with the assumption that one of the remaining FP characters will be associated with orange and the other blue. Which is kind of dumb because they could always have a color such as a darker purple or brown or even white.
Not sure how that proves anything.
 

Dbombiallo

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My friend and I came up with this cool idea that would probably even cut back on the amount of time that needs to be spent working on Kirby's Copy Abilities. This does come at the expense of all of the character-related hats he wears, though.

So basically,
- Kirby alone would use Smash Bros. Kirby as a base.
- When Kirby inhales a fighter, he will then get a copy ability that best fits the character, like in his actual games.

For example, if Kirby inhales charactes like Mario, Luigi, Bowser, or Charizard he will be granted the Fire Ability
For characters like Link, Marth, and Meta Knight, he will be granted the Sword Ability
For characters like Ness, Lucas, and Mewtwo, he will be granted the ESP Ability and so on.

Of course for certain characters, like Pac-Man, it might be a little tough to choose which ability goes with some characters, but I think that abilities that at least relate to the character, like the Bell Ability due to Pac-Man having a Bell attack, could also work as well.

Once Kirby has an ability, he would be granted an entirely new moveset based on the ability (and the moves can easily take pointers from the series itself), and at that point, he would probably have move original moves than even Hero.
While that is creative just imagine the dev time it would take. I was thinking of his normals and one or two of his specials. Like for instance why is his slide kick not his dtilt and his foward air not his air gun.
 

JCKirbs

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While that is creative just imagine the dev time it would take. I was thinking of his normals and one or two of his specials. Like for instance why is his slide kick not his dtilt and his foward air not his air gun.
That's fair, but for someone who exhibits quite a bit of power in his main series, Kirby's pretty much a pushover in Smash in comparison imo
 
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What do y'all think of Kirby moveset and could it better.
I've actually been writing up some ideas on how to improve the older Smash Veterans, because their movesets are really boring and not very fitting compared to some newer characters.

-Kirby doesn't immediately slow down when jumping, keeping his ground speed until he tries to turn around or double jump.
--You can use Dash Attack midair like this.
-Using a double jump (since it makes him do the inhale float thing) changes NAir to puffing out air, as a projectile.
--You have to double jump again to use it again, his NAir is the spin move otherwise.
-Down Tilt slides him forward like Joker/Cloud/Simon/Richter/Mega Man
-Inhale works a lot better with projectiles, allowing you to spit them back out no matter what they are.
--Instead of a reflector like Dedede, he always spits a star projectile that gets stronger based on what he inhaled.
--Swallowing projectiles gives you the opponent's copy ability instead of healing you.
-Getting a copy ability changes all four of your special moves, instead of just one.
--This includes receiving the other character's gimmick, if they have one, such as Limit, Arsene, Ink Meter, KO Punch, Aura, etc.

Personally I don't think his default special moves need to be changed up at all, unless you did a COMPLETE rework of his entire kit.

...Milky Way Wishes Kirby, anyone?
 
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If you ask me, all of Kirby's specials (besides Inhale of course) need to be changed to new Copy Abilities. Maybe some of his normals too.
  • Since he lacks good approach options, Wheel could become his side special.
  • Hi-Jump or Jet could give Kirby a lot more recovery distance than Final Cutter, though I'd be fine with anything that didn't send him straight down. So Tornado or ESP would work.
  • Replacing Final Cutter would leave Kirby without a projectile usable in 1v1, which makes no sense given all the projectiles he can use in canon. Laser would be an easy projectile that could either work like Fox's or Falco's. Ice would lack range, but give Kirby a useful option.
I also had the idea of Kirby using Whip for his grab. It would definitely improve him, though maybe too much.
 

Darktheumbreon

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Wish his normals involved more ability based things, like up smash had the stone uppercut, or dash attack would be water surfing, things like that. His moveset feels outdated as heck. (Also, can we make Gooey an echo with different animations, especially since he quite literally can use copy abilities?)
 
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I've actually been writing up some ideas on how to improve the older Smash Veterans, because their movesets are really boring and not very fitting compared to some newer characters.

-Kirby doesn't immediately slow down when jumping, keeping his ground speed until he tries to turn around or double jump.
--You can use Dash Attack midair like this.
-Using a double jump (since it makes him do the inhale float thing) changes NAir to puffing out air, as a projectile.
--You have to double jump again to use it again, his NAir is the spin move otherwise.
-Down Tilt slides him forward like Joker/Cloud/Simon/Richter/Mega Man
-Inhale works a lot better with projectiles, allowing you to spit them back out no matter what they are.
--Instead of a reflector like Dedede, he always spits a star projectile that gets stronger based on what he inhaled.
--Swallowing projectiles gives you the opponent's copy ability instead of healing you.
-Getting a copy ability changes all four of your special moves, instead of just one.
--This includes receiving the other character's gimmick, if they have one, such as Limit, Arsene, Ink Meter, KO Punch, Aura, etc.

Personally I don't think his default special moves need to be changed up at all, unless you did a COMPLETE rework of his entire kit.

...Milky Way Wishes Kirby, anyone?
No offense, but that second to last one would probably take too much dev time. I think I get what you're trying to go for (give Kirby buffs based on his actual games), but why try to give Kirby all of every special move when you can add more fighters? It just doesn't sound like it has enough of a payoff in terms of development and content. Although I do agree that Kirby should get the gimmicks he doesn't get like Limit Break, KO Punch and Arsene.

I would also give him faster frame data, that way he has more combo potential. Maybe give him and Dedede super armor on their stronger moves like Kirby's Side B and a lot of Dedede's moves) so they don't end up getting combo'd so easily themselves, while letting them get KOs easier?
 
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No offense, but that second to last one would probably take too much dev time. I think I get what you're trying to go for (give Kirby buffs based on his actual games), but why try to give Kirby all of every special move when you can add more fighters? It just doesn't sound like it has enough of a payoff in terms of development and content. Although I do agree that Kirby should get the gimmicks he doesn't get like Limit Break, KO Punch and Arsene.

I would also give him faster frame data, that way he has more combo potential. Maybe give him and Dedede super armor on their stronger moves like Kirby's Side B and a lot of Dedede's moves) so they don't end up getting combo'd so easily themselves, while letting them get KOs easier?
It was more of a "this is my ideal Kirby" than what I think will realistically happen. I definitely don't think that's feasible in the actual game.
 
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Got some bad news. Although most of us probably saw this coming, a 2nd fighter pass is pretty much deconfirmed. For us, this basically means that any concepts of a "Nintendo Fighters Pass", especially ones with Bandana Dee, are almost completely out the window.


Edit made after 9/4/19 Direct:

 
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Guynamednelson

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Got some bad news. Although most of us probably saw this coming, a 2nd fighter pass is pretty much deconfirmed. For us, this basically means that any concepts of a "Nintendo Fighters Pass", especially ones with Bandana Dee, are almost completely out the window.

I think you need to look at what would make Joker's video presentation higher budget: Voice acting. They got the VAs from Persona 5 to talk over his trailer, and the guy who describes the content of the update and details about Joker's moveset is not meant to be Sakurai.
 

P47

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Got some bad news. Although most of us probably saw this coming, a 2nd fighter pass is pretty much deconfirmed. For us, this basically means that any concepts of a "Nintendo Fighters Pass", especially ones with Bandana Dee, are almost completely out the window.

Is it just the marketing budget or the DLC/FP as a whole and how do we know Nintendo won't give him a budget for more DLC characters if he asks (and why wouldn't Nintendo want more for that matter)?

EDIT: Or just for FP character #2? Hero had to have been a pain in the *** to implement considering Squenix, Sugiyama, 4 characters from different games as the alts (and a bunch more for the FS), and just how many moves he has (didn't they spend a whole month on just balancing?). Might be the most ambitious character they've ever done.
 
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Got some bad news. Although most of us probably saw this coming, a 2nd fighter pass is pretty much deconfirmed. For us, this basically means that any concepts of a "Nintendo Fighters Pass", especially ones with Bandana Dee, are almost completely out the window.

Yeah, no surprise there. We just have to hope Dee is the fourth or fifth character in this pass.
 
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Got some bad news. Although most of us probably saw this coming, a 2nd fighter pass is pretty much deconfirmed. For us, this basically means that any concepts of a "Nintendo Fighters Pass", especially ones with Bandana Dee, are almost completely out the window.

This means nothing. If another Pass were to be made it would have a separate budget.
 

Darktheumbreon

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Nintendo not doing a second fighter pass (echo or otherwise) would be a poor decision. Smash is the most buzz-worthy game on the switch (I'd assume), so for them to do only one year of updates wouldn't be a good idea. Would be great if Sakurai didn't try to oversee every single aspect of smash though. He birthed the franchise, but he wanted to end the series at Melee. I know they got him back for Brawl and he wanted to do Sm4sh and Ultimate, but at this rate he's gonna lose a hand.
 
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Nintendo not doing a second fighter pass (echo or otherwise) would be a poor decision. Smash is the most buzz-worthy game on the switch (I'd assume), so for them to do only one year of updates wouldn't be a good idea.
While you could argue that they would because they should, they had a lot of money/life extension that they could have made in DLC for other games. Odyssey and MK8D didn't get anything Major, while games like Super Mario Party didn't get anything at all. While games like ARMS and Splatoon 2 got a few major updates, they didn't get too much before Nintendo wanted to move on. While you could argue that Splatoon 2 had 2 years of support, most of the 2nd year was only Splatfests and some existing weapons with different subs and specials. What makes Smash any different, especially with Sakurai wanting to end the series? Not quit and pass the torch onto someone else who's more willing to develop (which I'd be really happy with, since it'd be a win-win-win as long as the new director doesn't go and find a way to ruin the series); End it completely, because of the toll it has taken on him.
 
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Darktheumbreon

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While you could argue that they would because they should, they had a lot of money/life extension that they could have made in DLC for other games. Odyssey and MK8D didn't get anything Major, while games like Super Mario Party didn't get anything at all. While games like ARMS and Splatoon 2 got a few major updates, they didn't get too much before Nintendo wanted to move on. While you could argue that Splatoon 2 had 2 years of support, most of the 2nd year was only Splatfests and some existing weapons with different subs and specials. What makes Smash any different, especially with Sakurai wanting to end the series? Not quit and pass the torch onto someone else who's more willing to develop (which I'd be really happy with, since it'd be a win-win-win as long as the new director doesn't go and find a way to ruin the series); End it completely, because of the toll it has taken on him.
That's what I mean though, I don't get why Sakurai feels obligated to work on the dlc when he has the entire team to do it? Bandai and Sora Ltd. know what they're doing (I think)
 
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That's what I mean though, I don't get why Sakurai feels obligated to work on the dlc when he has the entire team to do it? Bandai and Sora Ltd. know what they're doing (I think)
We don't know. Maybe he doesn't want to see the series be taken in a direction he doesn't like (I'm sure it's happened with other series with or without Sakurai ever being involved). Maybe it's for personal reasons. Like I said, we don't know.
 
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Darktheumbreon

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We don't know. Maybe he doesn't want to see the series be taken in a direction he doesn't like (I'm sure it's happened with other series with or without Sakurai ever being involved). Maybe it's for personal reasons. Like I said, we don't know.
Kinda feels like that. Notice the Kirby series not getting anything past Air Ride that isn't directly pulled from a source game. Including spirits and songs.
Not bashing or talking negative, but it seems he likes things he had a hand in a lot more than others, which makes sense. Technically, BWD was made in one of his Kirby games though, so...? (Well, he didn't have anything besides a Bandana and the ability to crack Popstar, of course).
 
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Guynamednelson

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When it comes to detractors downplaying a character by calling them "Hat X", Bandana Dee ain't alone.
 

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Megadoomer

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Bandana dee would actually have a good moveset while Terry is trash. I don't see why there's such a defense force for him.
If you seriously think that a fighting game character wouldn't have a good moveset for a fighting game, then I'd strongly recommend playing a King of Fighters game, a Fatal Fury game, a Capcom vs. SNK game, or Garou: Mark of the Wolves to see what he can do.
 

P47

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I really want to see what they could do with a fully fledged 3D Kirby game (probably Blowout Blast controls in full scale levels with copy abilities and the like). Also I'd love to see them take a crack at Kirby Fighters again but with Dream Friends and online multiplayer.
 

Darktheumbreon

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It kinda feels like a 2D fighting game character would be easy to implement. What I mean is, I kinda do believe somebody like Terry could be in simply because his moveset is written. No need to make up moves for things like up tilt or back air, just grab attacks that would work as those moves. This is why Heihachi didn't get in Smash 4 (besides the fact that Pac-Man was always gonna get in before him).

To fully rep him, you'd need to implement a way to turn around and respective tilts and stuff when facing backwards.

Honestly, this is why I feel we're gonna get a 1st party pass as well. There are many characters that seemed like obvious picks for base roster (BWD, Spring Man / Tron echo, Elma or Rex) that didn't make the cut. Given, BWD and Elma...and SpringTron don't appear in smash (except as spirits for BWD and I think Elma), but there's always alternatives. Besides the 2 spring boys and ribbon, there's always Ninjara, Mechanica and Mummy that could be considered protags of ARMS since they all were in during the beginning.

Either way, I have no doubt that we'll get something 1st party related, 2nd pass or not.
 
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It kinda feels like a 2D fighting game character would be easy to implement. What I mean is, I kinda do believe somebody like Terry could be in simply because his moveset is written. No need to make up moves for things like up tilt or back air, just grab attacks that would work as those moves. This is why Heihachi didn't get in Smash 4 (besides the fact that Pac-Man was always gonna get in before him).

To fully rep him, you'd need to implement a way to turn around and respective tilts and stuff when facing backwards.

Honestly, this is why I feel we're gonna get a 1st party pass as well. There are many characters that seemed like obvious picks for base roster (BWD, Spring Man / Tron echo, Elma or Rex) that didn't make the cut. Given, BWD and Elma...and SpringTron don't appear in smash (except as spirits for BWD and I think Elma), but there's always alternatives. Besides the 2 spring boys and ribbon, there's always Ninjara, Mechanica and Mummy that could be considered protags of ARMS since they all were in during the beginning.

Either way, I have no doubt that we'll get something 1st party related, 2nd pass or not.
I would think that makes sense, if it weren't for Piranha Plant, since you could call him the lone Nintendo Rep of the game's DLC. For both games, they're going for all 3rd parties, with 1 promotional exception. Smash 4 had Corrin to promote Fates (or more specifically, new games as a whole), while Ultimate had Plant, as part of a Smash Bros promotion for buying early. While we could still get Byleth, Euden or the Howard Twins, I don't see another Nintendo rep happening, since Reggie said the Pass fighters will be like Joker, implying they'd be all 3rd party again.
 
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