Balanced Brawl

[S.D]

wow thats so wrong its silly
fighters ARE supposed to be balanced, but its so hard to balance a game that you shouldn't expect it to be perfectly balanced

and for brawl to be balanced, a lot more needs to be changed, brawl+ is a lot closer to being balanced than this

Correct. Sorry my post was ambiguous. Obviously the intention of the game designer is to have a balanced cast, but once games are played in a competitive environment that percieved 'balance' is intevitably undermined. I was trying to say what you've said here.

whilst I'm all up for a nice debate about what version of brawl is best, i still keep this opinion

"a piece of **** painted pink to look nicer is still a piece of ****"

This.

Anyway, I think the Brawl purists will be attracted to B-Brawl and the melee diehards will prefer brawl+

I personally like Brawl+ because it IS so far removed from Brawl, in a happy place where a combo is more than 2 hits and the timer NEVER RUNS OUT.

 

[ACCELERATE]

Ive got a better idea. Solves all these problems.

Man up. Learn some tech.

and Fcuking play melee.

 

[S.D]

Ive got a better idea. Solves all these problems.

Man up. Learn some tech.

and Fcuking play melee.

I second this motion.

 

[luke_atyeo]

I was agreeing with you Sieg lol...

Its nice to have proper debates in here, different from the usual trend of

*Someone makes a claim/opinion with no basis behind their argument*
*They get countered with a legitimate argument*
*First person responds with a personal attack, laden with sarcasm and offensive intent*

Its really hard to counter your point so I know you put a decent amount of thought into it

your just buthurt beacuse "your gay" is a great comeback and you know you cant top it

also play melee noobs, luigi and falcon is where its at, marth is for noobs

 

[황미영]

I second this motion.

Third this motion.

Honestly become the better player. Get determined to actually learn and come up with things on your own, and stop copying other players. (I know I'm guilty of this. xD)

It really angers me how people just complain about the game. There are plenty of other fighting games out there. Or just go back to Melee.

Honestly look at how broken MvC2 is, but honestly no one gives a **** and they continue to play it without trying to change it.

Try to abuse every possibilty for a character in the game. Even if it seems useless to others try to come up with a good use for it.

 

[Browny]

but how many games have actually had the possibility for people to hack it so it no longer resembles the original game anymore? i dont know, but was MvC2 hackable like brawl is? if people COULD balance everything, would they try? melee was broken too... how many characters were unviable but no one ever tried to hack it. i think its obvious why :/

 

[황미영]

I think almost every game is hackable... Also I think we were able to hack Brawl because of the Wii, and the fact that so many talented people contributed to it. I don't think anybody cared that much before to the point of hacking it. (Notice how I said think. I don't really know)

Most PC games tend to get hacked. Why else would most games have an anti cheating/hacking system.

 

[Sieg]

Ive got a better idea. Solves all these problems.

Man up. Learn some tech.

and Fcuking play melee.

I played Melee before you even started lol.

And yet here we are.

If MVC2 was balanceable people would try to balance it. There are so many characters people want to use tourney wise that get ****ed over by a good Magneto.

The selling point of the game was it's large list of characters.

If Ryan actually got off his ego horse for a second he'd realise that Brawl + is probably what he wanted out of Brawl aswell.

 

[Vyse]

Yeah, the Melee elitism needs to stop before it gets another thread closed.
This thread is about Balanced Brawl. So talk about Balanced Brawl. Just a reminder. Brawl bashing is a no-no and vice-versa.
Those are Caotic's rules.

whilst I'm all up for a nice debate about what version of brawl is best, i still keep this opinion

"a piece of **** painted pink to look nicer is still a piece of ****"

Depends entirely on what you think of Brawl.
I think it's making a great game even greater for those that are looking for something different in Brawl.

 

[Throwback]

I love the idea of BBrawl - the aim is to basically keep the same game but remove glitches and improve balance. Sounds like a win on all counts (plus I really want to try out Ganon!)

 

[Sieg]

One of the main points of balanced Brawl is that it removes all chain grabs from characters who have them. Now, people might see this as balancing, but won’t it destroy the games for the characters who games are based around them? In the end, some characters moves are going to have to get buffed/nerfed to equal it out imo.

 

[xXArrowXx]

advantages
a shuffle of tiers
removal of lame tripping

disadvantages
not really universal
IMBALANCE maybe

dont think ill play :X could be fun to have scrub matches tho =P

 

[Sieg]

Well. From what I'm seeing. Snake and MK will go higher on the tier list because top tiers are going to lose their placings ie. D3 and Falco.

Taking away the only advantage when fighting on characters already pretty broken sounds a bit silly doesn't it?

 

[Redact]

pc games get edited all the time, but usually not by the player, but by the developer since most out there actually give a crap about competitive play (cept the cod or bf2 devs)

gg gets re-released and balanced all the time
mvc2 peeps can edit it but they haven't been bothered
same story with sf, but people don't care

every game has been changeable, but the only kids that bother to do it are the brawl kids

this is probably due to brawl being seen as such a failure in the eyes of many, but unlike the pc community, instead of just playing the old game, they try to change the new game

brawls just one of the few communities that have taken a different approach to things

the quake kids are split between quake live and quake world, but they just add to their own game instead of changing it
cs is split between 1.6 and source, but they just live on with no change




but on the subject of balance, i think this will actually make it worse, like mk's been nerfed a bit along with snake, but the characters that would normally give them trouble have been nerfed aswell.
im curious to see if this is actually balanced in any form, it sounds just more like a "lets just take away whats good for the best characters" rather than a game fix if anything

 

[CAOTIC]

My favourite Brawl will be the one where Woxy reaches god tier

 

[luke_atyeo]

My favourite Brawl will be the one where Woxy reaches god tier

if woxy = fox its called melee, if woxy = wolf its called wifi.

 

[Sieg]

Brawl + is closer to balance than BBrawl already, it’s just that people don’t find the game interesting because it’s not Brawl, but maybe that’s the problem.

Maybe Brawl can’t be balanced without changing the physics like Brawl + has. I think it’s pretty obvious to see that at the moment, BBrawl isn’t really hitting the mark on the word balance atleast.

 

[TakFR]

if woxy = fox its called melee, if woxy = wolf its called wifi.

Just to clarify

Foxy = Fox <3
Woxy = Wolf <3

Foxy Woxy = Team consisting of Fox and Wolf <3

Also Accelerate wins this argument =P

 

[Browny]

but on the subject of balance, i think this will actually make it worse, like mk's been nerfed a bit along with snake, but the characters that would normally give them trouble have been nerfed aswell.
im curious to see if this is actually balanced in any form, it sounds just more like a "lets just take away whats good for the best characters" rather than a game fix if anything

Did you even read anything? just about every single character except the top 3, ddd pika and falco (arguably sheik) got buffed. the degree of wario and snakes nerfing is FAR less than what MK got. wario is actually better now with no GR problems, thats such an amazing buff people dont realise it lol.

the best characters only had a tiny amount taken from them, its the vast majority of others who got buffed (Sonic still needs more and im not going to stop until its fixed)

 

[S.D]

I agree with Sieg, taking out say D3's or Falco's chaingrab game takes away their greatest strength and the backbone of their metagame. It doesn't seem like balance it seems like even more imbalance than before. I don't think that slightly upping the attack strength of Lucas PK fire by 2% will exactly drag him up the tier list either. It might be a good idea in theory but I think it needs a lot more work before it could be deemed anything close to the balance they're aiming for. Atm Brawl + is a way better alternative imo.

 

[Bsrk_]

I honestly haven't tried either BBrawl or Brawl+ but will state that i am currently fine with the state of Brawl_ There are a few tweaks that wouldn't be so bad, but i am also in the belief that these changes should be made by the developers and each installment in a franchise should see new changes being made to enhance or alter on the previous gameplay_ It's then upto the developers to either take feedback and generate an upgraded installment or a completely new addition to the series that works on the previous titles strengths/ weaknesses_

I have played both Melee and Brawl and personally i prefer Brawls playstyle_ If a more balanced version was proven to be successfully tested and recommended by the majority of the Brawl community then i would more than happily try it and see for myself_

I think the main problem people are having when attempting to modify a game is that they attempt to make it more like another title, in Brawl+ case more like melee (from feedback)_ Melee exists and is still playable for those who want it, but Brawl should be altered to still play and feel like Brawl with slight balance modifications_ Things such as tripping removal is fine, but when you alter such things as hitstun, hitboxes, chaingrabs, adding attack strengths of attacks then you face the large possibilty of completely altering the game's playstyle, which can sometimes be a bad thing imo_

In summary, Brawl may not be perfect, but people are still playing it competitively for what it is_ For those that want Melee, it still exists and they are free to play it_ Brawl+ and BBrawl both hold potential that would be interesting to see what they can evolve into and i appreciate the efforts of those involved with Brawl+ currently, but will it take over from Brawl currently on a competitive level i will still wait to see_ For now i will more than likely still play Brawl in it's current condition_

 

[Redact]

I honestly haven't tried either BBrawl or Brawl+ but will state that i am currently fine with the state of Brawl_ There are a few tweaks that wouldn't be so bad, but i am also in the belief that these changes should be made by the developers and each installment in a franchise should see new changes being made to enhance or alter on the previous gameplay_ It's then upto the developers to either take feedback and generate an upgraded installment or a completely new addition to the series that works on the previous titles strengths/ weaknesses_

I have played both Melee and Brawl and personally i prefer Brawls playstyle_ If a more balanced version was proven to be successfully tested and recommended by the majority of the Brawl community then i would more than happily try it and see for myself_

I think the main problem people are having when attempting to modify a game is that they attempt to make it more like another title, in Brawl+ case more like melee (from feedback)_ Melee exists and is still playable for those who want it, but Brawl should be altered to still play and feel like Brawl with slight balance modifications_ Things such as tripping removal is fine, but when you alter such things as hitstun, hitboxes, chaingrabs, adding attack strengths of attacks then you face the large possibilty of completely altering the game's playstyle, which can sometimes be a bad thing imo_

In summary, Brawl may not be perfect, but people are still playing it competitively for what it is_ For those that want Melee, it still exists and they are free to play it_ Brawl+ and BBrawl both hold potential that would be interesting to see what they can evolve into and i appreciate the efforts of those involved with Brawl+ currently, but will it take over from Brawl currently on a competitive level i will still wait to see_ For now i will more than likely still play Brawl in it's current condition_

man posts like this that mention "melee is still there, go play that" just show you don't think much hey
what if i want melee with 10 new characters and 20 new stages, along with other things -_-

Did you even read anything? just about every single character except the top 3, ddd pika and falco (arguably sheik) got buffed. the degree of wario and snakes nerfing is FAR less than what MK got. wario is actually better now with no GR problems, thats such an amazing buff people dont realise it lol.

the best characters only had a tiny amount taken from them, its the vast majority of others who got buffed (Sonic still needs more and im not going to stop until its fixed)

but thats the problem, the things wrong with the majority of the lower tier characters are fundamental flaws not just like lack of damage or a bit of knockback

I've read the whole thing and it really doesn't sound like it'll fix much right now, its so early into development and it looks like there just hasn't been much testing

like think about why meta is top tier
he isn't so hard to deal with because of how strong his smashes are (at least imo, its not the problem i have with metas)
nor because of how his tornado hits inward

its because of his amazing priority and extreme speed, the way he can apply so much pressure and be everywhere without having to worry about delay

if the amount of damage they did was the reason why top tiers were top, ganon would be up there, but its the speed and priority

 

[Browny]

remove the tornado sucking people in and suddenly characters like DK and DDD can put up a serious fight against MK. theyre still going to KO him <100 regularly and his #1 method of damage dealing is nerfed... id like to see just how this affects those two

 

[Sieg]

I have to agree with Redact's post.

I only wish Brawl + had come out before Brawl.

Then again, half of you may not be here if that did happen, so I dunno.

Anthony's argument about Brawl has always been that it has added alot more people to the scene, and I can't disagree there.

 

[Jupz]

I love the defensive playstyle of brawl...

 

[Browny]

...WHAT?

Just... ugh! no

 

[Bsrk_]

man posts like this that mention "melee is still there, go play that" just show you don't think much hey
what if i want melee with 10 new characters and 20 new stages, along with other things -_-

Then go become a game developer or make your own little Brawl hack that turns it exactly into Melee, call it Melee 2 and stop complaining_ Either that or you can go back to reminiscing about 'the glory days'_

I play Brawl for Brawl as it was created, not because i want it to become another game_ My argument is either play Brawl, attempt to balance Brawl but keep it's 'feel' or completely recreate another game by playing with the code_ In your case 'Melee 2'_

If Brawl were released identical to Brawl+ then i would of accepted it as it was created and got on with my life_

As i stated before, i commend the efforts of those focusing on Brawl+ and BBrawl for attempting to create a re visioning of the game_

 

[Redact]

Brawl should be altered to still play and feel like Brawl with slight balance modifications

brawl should be altered however people feel like it, not how you think it should be

Then go become a game developer or make your own little Brawl hack that turns it exactly into Melee, call it Melee 2 and stop complaining_ Either that or you can go back to reminiscing about 'the glory days'_

I play Brawl for Brawl as it was created, not because i want it to become another game_ My argument is either play Brawl, attempt to balance Brawl but keep it's 'feel' or completely recreate another game by playing with the code_ In your case 'Melee 2'_

If Brawl were released identical to Brawl+ then i would of accepted it as it was created and got on with my life_

As i stated before, i commend the efforts of those focusing on Brawl+ and BBrawl for attempting to create a re visioning of the game_

i don't want to code or be a game dev or reminisce about anything, i just want melee 2

hopefully thats what brawl+ will end up becoming later down the track

 

[Sieg]

The glory days...

They were the days.

I remember that time. Back in 05'

 

[ACCELERATE]

Yeah, the Melee elitism needs to stop before it gets another thread closed.

Moderate in your designated forum please. Allow Caotic to do his job. I'm sure he hasn't asked you to help him and theres really no need for it.



For the last time. Brawl Doesn't need fixing. The only people that think it does are just bad. Dont try and change the game just so you can get better at it.

 

[Browny]

wtf man

many people who main mk/snake fuly acknowledge they are way too good and the game is practically broken. i suppose they want to balance the game to get better at it... by putting themselves at a disadvantage?

gg

 

[Scrubs]

Why bother balancing Brawl...people who like it, like it the way it is, people who don't .......


PLAY MELEE

 

[Redact]

Why bother balancing Brawl...people who like it, like it the way it is, people who don't .......


PLAY MELEE

what if you like brawl but find it not to be perfect, and dont find melee to be perfect either, but would like to create a better game?

or what if i want melee with more in it?

-_-

 

[Darkwing SykeDuk]

Not possible to like brawl, therefore your argument is void.

 

[Sieg]

Moderate in your designated forum please. Allow Caotic to do his job. I'm sure he hasn't asked you to help him and theres really no need for it.



For the last time. Brawl Doesn't need fixing. The only people that think it does are just bad. Dont try and change the game just so you can get better at it.

I ****ing loled at this post, I can’t wait until Antho see’s it. It will be legendary.

This thread isn’t about Brawl bashing guys. It’s about discussing BBrawl. (And to a lesser extent, Brawl +) If you haven’t even played either of them, then your opinion is instantly invalid and you can just leave to go play Melee or Brawl, whatever preference.

Fortunately some of us are open minded, and don’t hate on a remake of a game that is neither Brawl nor Melee, but a hybrid of the two. Brelee.

Actually **** Brawl +, I’m calling it Brelee from now on.

Imho, as has probably been stated by a couple of other people, the reason BBrawl isn’t good is because it’s not a community effort, nor a Back Room effort. It’s a group of guys that want to make Brawl balanced in their own way, that don’t realise that they’re actually making it more unbalanced than ever before, while completely destroying the original metagame.

Brelee has a wider community base, and is based off two existing metagames, Brawl and Melee, so people realise how the game is played and can quickly learn it. Hell, Brelee even has a handicap for people who haven’t played Melee before, that helps them adjust to the game.

It is just so much more compiled at the moment compared to BBrawl.

 

[Redact]

Not possible to like brawl, therefore your argument is void.

thats why you mangle the brawl code to the point that its just brawl skins and graphics with an entirely different engine

 

[Sieg]

I ****ing loled at this post, I can’t wait until Antho see’s it. It will be legendary.

This thread isn’t about Brawl bashing guys. It’s about discussing BBrawl. (And to a lesser extent, Brawl +) If you haven’t even played either of them, then your opinion is instantly invalid and you can just leave to go play Melee or Brawl, whatever preference.

Fortunately some of us are open minded, and don’t hate on a remake of a game that is neither Brawl nor Melee, but a hybrid of the two. Brelee.

Actually **** Brawl +, I’m calling it Brelee from now on.

Imho, as has probably been stated by a couple of other people, the reason BBrawl isn’t good is because it’s not a community effort, nor a Back Room effort. It’s a group of guys that want to make Brawl balanced in their own way, that don’t realise that they’re actually making it more unbalanced than ever before, while completely destroying the original metagame.

Brelee has a wider community base, and is based off two existing metagames, Brawl and Melee, so people realise how the game is played and can quickly learn it. Hell, Brelee even has a handicap for people who haven’t played Melee before, that helps them adjust to the game.

It is just so much more compiled at the moment compared to BBrawl.

Quoting because I got bottom paged.

 

[C~Dog]

Not all its cracked up to be =/

 

[Leisha]

Not all its cracked up to be =/

mmm i agree, just didnt like it. But thats just my opinion

 

[Browny]

Well its good to see all my suggestions are being completely ignored coz apparently the guys who made it *know* more about Sonic than the actual people who play him. the bias is still extreme and this will die if they dont accept community help on balancing things