Balanced Brawl

[Mic_128]

I was never that thrilled with Brawl+ but I'm really liking this to the point I'm actually going to look at getting it. What is it? It's basically Brawl with a few tiny nerfs to a few characters and the removal of infinites.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=239604

For those who don't want to read the thread, they provided a handy "Quick look" thing.

 

[S.D]

Interesting...

Still prefer brawl+

 

[Browny]

V1.0 is HORRIBLY biased. 0 community input and look what happens.

Wario is now the best character in the game

the degree of nerf/buffing some characters while barely touching those who need it is obscene. What was wrong with jablocks? This needs A LOT of work before it will even be close to 'balanced' imo. (btw ive read the entire op by AA)

 

[Sieg]

Brawl + is really really better.

Browny is just pissed Sonic didn't get enough rep.

 

[Browny]

im pissed coz something as potentially amazing as this is completely controlled by only a few people and the bias is extreme. sure its only 1.0 at the moment but this is something everyone needs to have a say on and then they can figure out whats best based from that. sure it would be hard, but thats no excuse when it comes to ultimately 'balancing' brawl.

 

[S.D]

Fighters aren't supposed to be perfectly balanced. There will always be tiers, exploits, etc that work in different ways. Normal Brawl is fine the way it is, only thing that needs to be cut is random tripping.

 

[C~Dog]

Fighters aren't supposed to be perfectly balanced. There will always be tiers, exploits, etc that work in different ways. Normal Brawl is fine the way it is, only thing that needs to be cut is random tripping.

Wouldn't it be better to try to make every character as close to even as possible? O_o

 

[Zero]

Fighters aren't supposed to be perfectly balanced. There will always be tiers, exploits, etc that work in different ways. Normal Brawl is fine the way it is, only thing that needs to be cut is random tripping.

Tripping is fine, let them be done away with glancing blows. **** it, I don't need to know if I ALMOST hit. Sakurai's expert trolling once again.

 

[isthattim?]

personally i think they should double the damage for every move

 

[Browny]

especially Snakes ftilt and warios fsmash

 

[isthattim?]

dont change the knockback tho, that would be stupid

 

[CAOTIC]

lol snake death jab and wario atomic fart

 

[Jupz]

I just like normal brawl

 

[Mic_128]

V1.0 is HORRIBLY biased. 0 community input and look what happens.

Wario is now the best character in the game

It's still much more attrative to me than Brawl+. this isn't a total revamp like B+ was. Part of the problem with B+ was that it was 95% community input - and it stinks! This isn't doing anything radical other than the removal of chaingrabs and other infinites. It's just been released so things such as Wario's apparent overpoweredness can be toned down to a more normal level. No great changes "(IE, no PT Split, no "Roy as a new character") just taking Brawl and tweaking it slightly.

 

[isthattim?]

Part of the problem with B+ was that it was 95% community input - and it stinks!

I enjoy it

 

[Redact]

Fighters aren't supposed to be perfectly balanced. There will always be tiers, exploits, etc that work in different ways. Normal Brawl is fine the way it is, only thing that needs to be cut is random tripping.

wow thats so wrong its silly
fighters ARE supposed to be balanced, but its so hard to balance a game that you shouldn't expect it to be perfectly balanced

and for brawl to be balanced, a lot more needs to be changed, brawl+ is a lot closer to being balanced than this

 

[Shaya]

Brawl+ is the fun.
But it has its issues that if they don't get resolved will lead to it's death.

Balanced Brawl? did they remove the triple jump glitches?

 

[Vyse]

It's still much more attrative to me than Brawl+. this isn't a total revamp like B+ was. Part of the problem with B+ was that it was 95% community input - and it stinks! This isn't doing anything radical other than the removal of chaingrabs and other infinites. It's just been released so things such as Wario's apparent overpoweredness can be toned down to a more normal level. No great changes "(IE, no PT Split, no "Roy as a new character") just taking Brawl and tweaking it slightly.

I agree with this.

I'd choose Balanced Brawl over Brawl+ since they're not messing with overall hit-stun/adding mechanics like dash dancing/adding custom buffer levels. It's what I wanted to see from Brawl+, but instead it's just trying to make the game more fun by trying to balance the cast and adding in the capacity to string hits together better. As well as the 'messing with overall hit-stun/adding mechanics like dash dancing/adding custom buffer levels'. Not necessarily a bad thing, but it's not what I wanted from Brawl+

I'd choose normal Brawl before them both though.

I like Brawl as is. Balanced Brawl seems like a nice way to rebalance the cast, but Brawl+ is too far removed from the original game. I respect it and its players and the thousands of hours put into Brawl+ and I hope it becomes really successful. Same with Balanced Brawl, though I think it may not do too well since it's just a community mod that's trying to compete with Brawl+.

From a tournament organiser standpoint, I'd much rather implement Brawl+ since people are already quite familliar with it.

I wouldn't run Balanced Brawl as a tournament game until the community adopts it as standard over normal Brawl.

My stigma with what Balanced Brawl is trying to achieve, is that it is far too biased. If I was to adopt any replacement for normal Brawl, it'd have to be something released by Nintendo.

So yeah, that's my strange and awkward opinion on it which is basically I like the idea of Balanced Brawl better than Brawl+, but I would sooner run tournaments for Brawl+ if I'm going to go to the effort of running hax Brawl tournaments.

 

[isthattim?]

do people think there is a place for balanced brawl and brawl + or is it one or the other alongside regular brawl?

 

[tedeth]

I guess if TOs were going to run a side event they could choose between the two or something.

 

[Vyse]

The goal of Balanced Brawl is to remove the perceived character 'flaws' to make the game 'balanced'. So the aim of Balanced Brawl is to replace vBrawl (Normal Brawl). At least, that is how I see it. I am not sure what the developers think.

Brawl+ is not designed to be a replacement of vBrawl however, and is designed to be a fun derivative of vBrawl. Much more suited as a side tournament.

I really like the idea of Balanced Brawl, but yeah, I already explained what I think.

 

[Sieg]

Balanced Brawl won't get off the ground for the main reason that you stated. It's like Brawl. Brawl + will just smother it under it's already established base.

You say that Brawl + is more suited as a side tourney, whereas it's almost a completely different game.

If you say you don't like it because it is an entirely different game, look at it from that perspective, not the "Oh it's different from Brawl"

Besides the base of Brawl, it's a completely different game, almost like Mugen if you ask me.

Soon people will be creating their own characters for the game itself.

Think what you will, but I love Brawl +. I believe it to be a much faster paced game that what Brawl ever will be, and that's the main reason I don't play Brawl.

Good luck with Brawl though, I'm gonna jump on the Community Customization Bandwagon.

 

[Vyse]

You say that Brawl + is more suited as a side tourney, whereas it's almost a completely different game.

Precisely. Though, I wasn't saying either game should be run as a side tournament, I was responding to isthathim. If I had to choose one to run as a side tournament. It'd be Brawl+ since running B-Brawl would defeat the purpose of having it in the first place.

If you say you don't like it because it is an entirely different game, look at it from that perspective, not the "Oh it's different from Brawl"

But Brawl is what it is a derivative of. I don't like Brawl+ because it changes Brawl too much. It adds all of these unecessary things when my original perception of it was that it was just going to be a rebalance like B-Brawl is. Not a necessarily a bad thing, since what is has become is both really cool and very successful.

Think what you will, but I love Brawl +. I believe it to be a much faster paced game that what Brawl ever will be, and that's the main reason I don't play Brawl.

As has been reiterated by Brawlers the world over, that's precisely the reason why they prefer Brawl. It's a slower, non-combo reliant game (compared to say, Melee). It rewards strategy, mindgames and smart play.

THOUGH there is a rather large hole in that argument, in that Melee and Brawl+ have those things, but are also faster and have more combos. It's whether those are things you want, and as was once said "What is a combo? A miserable pile of inputs".

Good luck with Brawl though, I'm gonna jump on the Community Customization Bandwagon.

I hope so.
I promise to help you hack your Wii when I come back.

Um, talk to James on MSN, he should be able to help you on that front while I'm gone. If you don't have it done by then, I'll help you through it on MSN. If you're interested in trying to run a tournament for it, my Wii is set up for it, and I know another guy who is turning up to the PCYC tournament just to play Brawl+

 

[Sieg]

I already did it.

But Brawl is what it is a derivative of. I don't like Brawl+ because it changes Brawl too much.

Besides the base of Brawl, it's a completely different game, almost like Mugen if you ask me.

You know what I find funny.

Hear you are defending Brawl, but if Brawl + had been the way Brawl was originally released, you would have had no beef about it. It's like the ultimate Melee sequel.

Hmm.

 

[Browny]

ohhh nice Sieg, that point is hard as hell to counter!

Brawl+ is too far different from normal brawl which some people actually happen to like more than melee. A shocking crime, I know.

 

[luke_atyeo]

dude WTF, I am so maining ganon, he has taken his rightful place as raper of all and now ima **** everyone up!

 

[Vyse]

I already did it.

News to me.
Got textures going?

Besides the base of Brawl, it's a completely different game, almost like Mugen if you ask me.

You know what I find funny.

Hear you are defending Brawl, but if Brawl + had been the way Brawl was originally released, you would have had no beef about it. It's like the ultimate Melee sequel.

Hmm.

Indeed you're correct. I would be very happy if Brawl+ was the true game released by Nintendo, or in some way endorsed by it. It would be amazing if Nintendo released a more balanced version of Brawl. I'd pick it up in a second.

But Brawl is the hand dealt to us and I'm quite satisfied with it.

Amazingly though, the nintendo channel has Brawl videos made by Sirlin which explain advanced techs like Dedede's chaingrab (LOL). So maybe they are taking notice of the competitive community.

 

[Sieg]

@ Browny: Where the **** did I say that people didn't like Brawl?

Obviously Anthony still likes it as he's pointed out, and considering he played Melee waaaaaay before this game, I'm inclined to not argue his choice.

All I'm pointing out is, to the people that were here BEFORE Brawl, is that what we thought the game would be like on release, is Brawl +.

Quite honestly.

@Vyse: Yeah got them down, gotta join them to the Brawl + code so I can get both going though. It's news cause you were too busy partying last night lol.

Next up is making my own.

EDIT:

"What is a combo? A miserable pile of inputs".

Haha, I loled. I remember that.

 

[Vyse]

@ Browny: Where the **** did I say that people didn't like Brawl?

Obviously Anthony still likes it as he's pointed out, and considering he played Melee waaaaaay before this game, I'm inclined to not argue his choice.

All I'm pointing out is, to the people that were here BEFORE Brawl, is that what we thought the game would be like on release, is Brawl +.

Quite honestly.

Truth.

Also, I think Browny said that to agree with you.

 

[Sieg]

Nope, Nope.

I'm pretty sure it was a shot at me.

I know my internet sarcasm and my meter is off the chart.

Ironically, so is my gaydar.

 

[I LAG]

imo balanced brawl is stupid
Brawl+ is better
Brawl is best

they shouldn't nerf characters, they should only buff everyone to make them as good as metaknight or snake by giving them more damage or knockback and getting rid of some characters free fall like ness's pkt1 and ivys up-b.

 

[Sieg]

From what I've seen, the low tiers have gained such an incredible array of skills to help.

Also, dash dancing puts that element of change in the game. Dash dancing is the anomoly(sp?) that makes it so that any character can be viable.

I haven't seen many nerfs. Cept maybe the knockback on Snake's Utilt. But that was ****ing insane to begin with lol.

 

[Redact]

imo balanced brawl is stupid
Brawl+ is better
Brawl is best

they shouldn't nerf characters, they should only buff everyone to make them as good as metaknight or snake by giving them more damage or knockback and getting rid of some characters free fall like ness's pkt1 and ivys up-b.

thats a pretty poor idea, its a whole bunch easier to edit a 20~ characters to reach a medium rather than buff 30+

plus so many characters are fundamentally flawed that you would need to overhaul them almost totally to reach a level like meta knight or snake, reaching a medium works a lot better

the idea behind this (correct me if I'm wrong) is to balance out the game whilst changing the least they can, that wouldn't happen if every character got buffed beyond belief

 

[Sieg]

There's a point where buffing will destroy the game, whereas nerfing only makes it longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer and longer.

Etc and so forth.

 

[Browny]

I was agreeing with you Sieg lol...

Its nice to have proper debates in here, different from the usual trend of

*Someone makes a claim/opinion with no basis behind their argument*
*They get countered with a legitimate argument*
*First person responds with a personal attack, laden with sarcasm and offensive intent*

Its really hard to counter your point so I know you put a decent amount of thought into it

 

[Sieg]

BUT IT SOUNDED SO SARCASTIC LOL.

Sorry.

<3.

 

[Vyse]

Sir I say sir, I do believe we have ourselves quite a merry gathering in this thread. The parry and strike of the debate is a marvellous thing indeed.

*adjusts monocle*

Here here, good sirs.

 

[Sieg]

Quite indeed so my good chap.

I do believe we should pour some cranberry shnops continuing this debate while watching the horses.

Quite splendid indeed.

 

[Redact]

whilst I'm all up for a nice debate about what version of brawl is best, i still keep this opinion

"a piece of **** painted pink to look nicer is still a piece of ****"

 

[Sieg]

But it looks nicer right?

And it'd probably smell better because of the paint.