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Balanced Brawl Version 2 Release

Juri

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
33
Mm, I think I may have found one thing wrong with BBrawl.

Lucas appears to be overpowered.
His Up Smash gives him a really decent level of protection while charging.
His freeze when he freezes you lasts to long and if he freezes you off the edge you're pretty much dead.

There are more stuff about him but, I suggest playing againts Lucas so you guys can see what i'm talking about.
 

Steeler

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i forgot about fsmash since that move is boo-boo, SA shenanigans aside...

anyway squirtle doesn't get armor on nair or anything
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
Mm, I think I may have found one thing wrong with BBrawl.

Lucas appears to be overpowered.
His Up Smash gives him a really decent level of protection while charging.
His freeze when he freezes you lasts to long and if he freezes you off the edge you're pretty much dead.

There are more stuff about him but, I suggest playing againts Lucas so you guys can see what i'm talking about.


His Upsmash is unchanged actually. (IIRC) and is pretty unsafe on block.
PK Freeze is midly difficult move to land, but I'm sure the freeze is short enough to escape. Besides PK freeze sends you vertically upwards.

Um, err they kinda spent over 1000 hours plus on BBrawl so I think they would know if Lucas is overpowered or not.

(He's fine)
 

Hunch

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
24
i forgot about fsmash since that move is boo-boo, SA shenanigans aside...

anyway squirtle doesn't get armor on nair or anything
I wasn't making the argument that all inside-of-shell moves should have armor for Bowser and/or Squirtle, just that Squirtle's existing case of armor on a few moves gives in-game credibility to the idea of Bowser having knockback resistance on Whirling Fortress. Personally, I think giving armor to Bowser's nair and d-smash on top of Up-B runs the risk of overbuffing him.
 

ぱみゅ

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Only problem I see with that is how abusable it can be.
I mean, on-stage Aerial Fortess to scape pressure/juggles sounds good... but people CAN spam it to gain time.... A LOT of time.
(a Bowser EFFECTIVELY planking? WTF?)
 

Hunch

Smash Rookie
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
24
Only problem I see with that is how abusable it can be.
I mean, on-stage Aerial Fortess to scape pressure/juggles sounds good... but people CAN spam it to gain time.... A LOT of time.
(a Bowser EFFECTIVELY planking? WTF?)
That's why I think using something similar to Yoshi's double jump armor would work much better than a flat %. This way it would increase Bowser's staying power (and maybe give him some low-% escape options on-stage) but cease to become an issue when he reaches percentages where he really ought to be KO'd. Also, for clarity I think that only aerial Fortress should have this buff, with no change to the grounded one.

EDIT: As for planking, I guess it would be up to the ledge-grab limit change to handle that.
 

A2ZOMG

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Doesn't jab to up b combo on MK and Marth anyways? I know they can jump out of it (or counter shoryuken in Marth's case) but -2 frames of endlag still means they can jump out of it. Even in Marth's case you can easily bait his dolphin slash when you jab him. All that change would do is screw over a few characters and make Luigi more 1-dimensional.

@Sky Angel: Which version is your Wii on? I hear 4.3 is immune to all known exploits so nothing works on it yet.
Jab Up-B doesn't combo on MK.

Luigi is perfectly fine in this game as far as I'm concerned. The fireball buff is amazingly useful in many creative ways outside of obvious zoning. And the Dash attack buff gives Luigi a more "consistent" option outside of cyclone for pressure mixups that wins against spotdodges and against people who shield next to the edge and just helps a lot in getting him in range to punish.

Like, his only matchup that he's really going to do noticeably worse in is basically against Ganon, who by design probably cares the least about Luigi's buffs overall and more about the new tools he has in all his matchups. Actually Samus is probably now a lot harder for him as well, but outside of that, his matchups either stayed about the same or got better.

His Upsmash is unchanged actually. (IIRC) and is pretty unsafe on block.
PK Freeze is midly difficult move to land, but I'm sure the freeze is short enough to escape. Besides PK freeze sends you vertically upwards.

Um, err they kinda spent over 1000 hours plus on BBrawl so I think they would know if Lucas is overpowered or not.

(He's fine)
PK Freeze does send you horizontally in this game.
 

PKNintendo

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
3,679
@

A2 well isn't that something. Guess I never got around to using it... ever.
Also I want to do as Yink does and master PK Flash.
 

A2ZOMG

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I really only wish that more top players were interested in this game...

And also I really haven't played this game much at all. I personally am seeing Wolf, Falco, and Peach being the most likely characters to be best for tournament play and really not having any unfavorable matchups. I can't really say for sure who really wouldn't be able to win a tournament...except I would probably argue Ganon, Bowser, and Kirby clearly are iffy characters that probably still have obvious design problems in matchups. And that Falco is probably a matchup offender in general by design just due to how dominating his laser camping is.

For Ganon...it basically just comes down to giving him something that he can do that is safe when the opponent chooses to either shield or spotdodge. I think I've beaten that one to death.

Bowser's matchups are mostly going to have issues if his opponent has good options for really punishing his recovery. Same goes for Kirby as well.

If Luigi were to ever get another buff, the most logical thing you could do is give him +1 damage on F-air (or an angle change that either increases its gimp potential or comboability), which is one of his most invaluable moves in general due to its speed and general practicality for forward zoning.

And Mario as I mentioned really just needs small damage increases on a bunch of moves to make him better at trading hits and to make his fairly weak forward options more practical when they do hit, since his KO power relative to everyone else is fairly balanced, but not his damage output and shield damage. You could also increase the base knockback of his B-air a bit so that it's safer at 0%.

Link really wants better throws to compensate for his situational grab and iffy setups. Lucas probably does as well.

Ivysaur's projectile probably could be more rewarding considering its other mediocre qualities. After all, that is one of the ways Ness was handled.

Make the solo Squall Hammer for both ICs knock people away safely. Not just because it will help their recovery. I'm certain that they still have a GR Squall Hammer infinite.

If DK has a matchup problem, it's gonna be because his F-air and D-air are lousy.

G&W could probably use better tilts which are the other thing besides his Jab (good buff btw) and F-air he's gonna be needing against Metaknight and Marth to get in hits reasonably. And you might as well increase the BKB of his D-tilt which is the simple solution for getting rid of his D-tilt lock.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
Mm, I think I may have found one thing wrong with BBrawl.

Lucas appears to be overpowered.
His Up Smash gives him a really decent level of protection while charging.
His freeze when he freezes you lasts to long and if he freezes you off the edge you're pretty much dead.

There are more stuff about him but, I suggest playing againts Lucas so you guys can see what i'm talking about.
I saw Up Smash and decent level of protection. I lol'd so hard. They didn't even change Up Smash.
You shouldn't be hit by his PK Freeze. If you are, that means the other player IS better than you.

There are several things you must not know about Lucas.
 

Juri

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
33
I saw Up Smash and decent level of protection. I lol'd so hard. They didn't even change Up Smash.
You shouldn't be hit by his PK Freeze. If you are, that means the other player IS better than you.

There are several things you must not know about Lucas.
Because someone hits me with one move they're better than me?

Wow, quit being lame. I wouldn't expect such attitude from a Moderator.
 

ぱみゅ

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He wanted not to be mean, he just said you MUST learn to be careful.
Both PKfreeze and Usmash are slow and really telegraphed, and with some little experience, you shouldn't be hitted by any of them. They're just not very good.
 

Mit

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
947
Location
Southeast Michigan
You know, people always say Snapshot is superior, but when you have to go through way more trouble and convert your code file into a snapshot and all that mess, how is it still better? O.o

Double GCT code = put a small code file where RSBE01 goes. Put your code file in a folder somewhere. Done.

O.o
 

Revven

FrankerZ
Joined
Apr 27, 2006
Messages
7,550
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
It's mainly because the snapshot can hold more lines of code than the double gct method, which if I recall correctly at most holds 1,000 lines versus the snapshot which holds 8,000.
 

Jdash99

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 25, 2009
Messages
3
Thx. I could do it with neogamma. Just downloaded the files needed for BBrawl, made some changes in the neogamma config options and it worked.

Btw i think that i did not use any of those methods (snapshot or the double gtc code) because it seems that neogamma can hold the lines of code necessary.
 

Varna

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 7, 2010
Messages
11
So I have no idea if this has anything to do with BBrawl or not, but I'm posting it here since I was playing it and something weird happened.

Teams, 2v2cpus. The computer hit my friend (playing as Luigi) and they were in the animation where they could have bumped me and done damage, however, I was in the middle of launching a Warlock Punch (Ganon, obv). The punch connected with my ally and killed them. Team attack is not enabled. Whaaaaaaaat?
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
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Ganon is just that murderous.



but in all seriousness, did you change it to "team attack off" in the settings before doing this?
 

Mit

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
947
Location
Southeast Michigan
Quick question, what all is included in the Omnibus code?

I usually have it shut off because the whole planking fix isn't very popular among my friends when we play casually, but I've noticed jab locks seem to be occurring again.
 

dualseeker

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 29, 2009
Messages
864
Location
Pit: One of the greatest Heroes of our time
Hello! I downloaded v2 a little while ago. But, unfortunately, it isn't loading in my Wii. I suspect it's because the newest update Nintendo sent out isn't it?

Are you making a code that may be able to bypass the new update? Or is there something I'm doing wrong?
 

King Luigi 128

Smash Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
46
Location
USA
Hello! I downloaded v2 a little while ago. But, unfortunately, it isn't loading in my Wii.
I suspect it's because the newest update Nintendo sent out isn't it?

Or is there something I'm doing wrong?
Well that depends.. is your Wii/Brawl from 'NTSC' (USA) or 'PAL' (Europe)?
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Hello! I downloaded v2 a little while ago. But, unfortunately, it isn't loading in my Wii. I suspect it's because the newest update Nintendo sent out isn't it?

Are you making a code that may be able to bypass the new update? Or is there something I'm doing wrong?
The update shouldn't matter. You need to be more descriptive in your error report so it can be figured out what is going wrong.
 

Mit

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 20, 2008
Messages
947
Location
Southeast Michigan
Quick question, what all is included in the Omnibus code?

I usually have it shut off because the whole planking fix isn't very popular among my friends when we play casually, but I've noticed jab locks seem to be occurring again.
Me next D:

All the description for the Omnibus code mentions is planking. But there's gotta be more in there. I want to know what I'm shutting off :(
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
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Messages
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Quick question, what all is included in the Omnibus code?

I usually have it shut off because the whole planking fix isn't very popular among my friends when we play casually, but I've noticed jab locks seem to be occurring again.
Uh, I'd further point out another code depends on that code being on. I think some grab release stuff is in there, a fix to rudder stalling, and maybe something else.

Just pick MK and plank their brains out until they see the value of the code is my suggestion.
 

PontyfaxJr

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 21, 2010
Messages
1
Location
Ireland
Yeah, It's not working with PAL consoles since the 4.3E update. It blocks bannerbomb.

*from wiihacks.com*
Comfirmed Information:
- Bannerbomb no longer works.
- HBC removed.
- Overwrites cIOS
- BootMii is unaffected
- Adds IOS80 (4.3 System Menu)


Now, I don't know the first thing about how this all works, but I very much want to try BBrawl, so I'll watch with baited breath for a fix :D
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
Writing Team
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
4,582
Location
Kansas City, MO
Yeah, It's not working with PAL consoles since the 4.3E update. It blocks bannerbomb.

*from wiihacks.com*
Comfirmed Information:
- Bannerbomb no longer works.
- HBC removed.
- Overwrites cIOS
- BootMii is unaffected
- Adds IOS80 (4.3 System Menu)


Now, I don't know the first thing about how this all works, but I very much want to try BBrawl, so I'll watch with baited breath for a fix :D
If you have PAL and 4.3, that's a pretty tough combination (just one or the other wouldn't be a problem). BBrawl itself works fine; it's just that PAL + 4.3 makes it hard to actually load it. I think there's some obscure Indiana Jones lego game that has a smash stack style exploit that would let you install the latest version of Riivolution (which isn't the one we include by default), but that would require a good chunk of effort and knowledge to pull off.
 

JOE!

Smash Hero
Joined
Oct 5, 2008
Messages
8,075
Location
Dedham, MA
you need to abuse Wiz kick more with ganon...

and Fox's fsmash shouldnt be tossed out willy-nilly like that :p
 

Amazing Ampharos

Balanced Brawl Designer
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I only watched one match, JJ (Zelda) vs Danny (Fox) 2 on Smashville. Here are my play suggestions:

Danny: No offense, but you kinda earned the three stock via your limited approaches. All I saw you doing was dash attacks and random smashes to try to get damage. I think you tried dair a few times and were rewarded. Notably, you never used a single tilt the entire match, and the most important tilt Fox has is utilt. Zelda was being really smash happy; you could have run in, shielded a smash, and then popped her up with a utilt at several points. From this point, Fox is in a commanding position. He can maybe land another up tilt or two in close quarters, he can let them fall onto a usmash for kills, or he can jump up and have some fun. Uair can kill at higher percentages and gets up for more juggling with good damage, nair is your fastest option, fair can do some big damage at the cost of being hard to land, and bair can sometimes kill and oftentimes sets up for gimps. Do also note that in addition to landing utilt after shielding unsafe moves, Fox can also get in utilts in close quarters combat before the enemy hits him (Fox's utilt is very fast!) or as a follow-up to a landed dair (Fox's dair is another really good approach that you used some but not enough). You could also afford to jab some more and poke a bit with ftilt and dtilt, but the lack of utilt was the big thing. As per landing those smashes for a kill, against this Zelda player, all you really needed to do was read her rolls. Zelda was rolling like mad, and those should have been free fsmashes or dash usmashes for you. Don't just do those moves in a neutral position, use them to punish something (an unsafe attack or a roll!). However, you could have gotten some punishes with them. You also never grabbed; grabbing as a part of your approach would have been another good mix-up though neither of you were blocking very much at all (grab is mostly your option to counter him shielding your approaches). Lastly, two minor points. For one, you were using the laser weakly. You should be taking a little free damage as you maneuver to do other things and maybe fire it a bit more if you have something stale that you're looking to kill with. Just getting campy with it works in some matchups to a small extent, but it doesn't work well against someone with a reflector like Zelda and regardless it's never worth risking getting hit to use (it does minimal damage and doesn't inflict hitstun). You also shouldn't just forget it for long periods and then suddenly use it a lot; try to spread the use out over the match. The other point is that your recoveries too often were just an Illusion right into the other guy. In BBrawl you can use jump canceled Illusion (on the offense too but also to recover), and even that cancel aside, you can and should Illusion to the ledge most often since that's safe whereas you could get hit out of Illusion into the enemy. Illusion into the enemy while recovering is a "sometimes" move you use to be unpredictable but have to know is unsafe and therefore to be used to the bare minimum.

JJ: I can't criticize you too much since you won convincingly, but a stronger opponent would have had a field day wit those rolls. You just plain rolled too much and could have eaten a lot of smashes from Fox. You also used Din's Fire too much, especially early in the match. That is a "sometimes" move you mostly should use to complicate recoveries or for a long range punish (usually requires prediction). Of course, you also didn't make use of Sheik, but given the way the match went, you didn't seem to need that kind of change. Congrats on a convincing win.
 

Mit

Smash Ace
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Messages
947
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Southeast Michigan
Moar reflector air-stalling. I utilize this a ton when playing Fox. Prevents the opponent from punishing landings, which happened a lot in the video. Fall downward toward your enemy, try to bait something like Zelda's usmash, then reflector in the air. You'll stop above Zelda, pause long enough to avoid the move, and can usually fall into dair and then go from there.

And yeah, jump-canceled illusion while recovering makes it so you can usually avoid edgeguarding tactics.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
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I wanted to let you guys know that I moderate this forum now, and if you have any problems, let me know. Thanks.

:D
 
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