Social Bair is underpowered - Puff Social/Disc Thread

[-LzR-]

My reaction time is absolutely terrible. I cannot reliably react to Ganons sideB.

 

[FoxLisk]

My reaction time is absolutely terrible. I cannot reliably react to Ganons sideB.

react and do what? i mean ganon's side B isn't exceptionally slow. I can't reliably get out anything better than a shield against it - can you do that much?

 

[-LzR-]

I can't really even shield it properly. I can't see it coming in time. I'm that bad.

 

[idea]

shield is a good option vs that anyway because it's incredibly laggy and trades with things randomly. no reason to risk it.

edit: or you could wavedash out of its range to make it easier to rest him afterward

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah but I cannot react to it so my shield won't always be on time.

 

[Metà]

lol that's pretty ****in bad haha

i usually wd out like idea said.

 

[idea]

you might be trying to plan too far ahead, then...like you already jump to counter something else and then he uses side-b and it throws you off?

there are websites where you can test your reaction time y'know.

 

[Republican0fHeaven]

Depending upon how close Ganon is to me, I get hit by that attack a lot too. Ganon and Falcon's side-B animations just mess with my mind cause they start to move backward then shoot forward fast.

 

[-LzR-]

Well I really should focus more on just predicting ****, but it annoys me when slow reactable moves are viable against me thanks to my horrible reaction time. Oh well, I can just bair the ****.

 

[Krynxe]

Puff dittos; most puffs simply can't bair them

 

[Jeyfar]

Well being a Ganon main myself, here's a tip for you Puffs out there. Since Ganon destroys puffs aerial game trough pressure, you should inflict pressure on Ganon himself. Time your bairs correctly and READ the Ganon. This is a negative match for puff, albeit just slightly. As for side-b, that doesn't hit puff lol, just shield or bair.

 

[Tekk]

Ganon having an edge on puff ? Oh hell no (at least not imo)
The ganon/falcon MU are pretty similar to me, except ganon is way easier to grab/put pressure on/rest
Like really

 

[Krynxe]

Belongs in MU discussion imo. Also, I'd say Ganon has a much easier time out-spacing puff when he gets room, and when he hits it hurts.

 

[Massive]

I switch to kirby vs. gannondorf.

AERIAL HAMMER GOES UNPUNISHED ALL DAY.

 

[Wake]

I have never seen RRR lose to a Ganon player. That MU seems fine for Kirby.

 

[Metà]

or MN just sucks and loses to a kirby player



seriously are you kidding me? ganondorf should be ****** kirby.

 

[Massive]

That is probably the only match in kirby's favor.

Gannon can't grab Kirby while he's ducking at all. Duck also goes under wizard kick. Dtilt > ledgehog will kill gannon above 40% and Kirby's aerial hammer is unpunishable, it will float gannon up and behind kirby far enough that he can shield any reprisal and utilt for free at most %s. Oh yeah, you can also swallow ledgeguard gannon's recovery since it's so slow/predictable.

It's a weird, weird match.

 

[FoxLisk]

Well I really should focus more on just predicting ****, but it annoys me when slow reactable moves are viable against me thanks to my horrible reaction time. Oh well, I can just bair the ****.

most likely you're too busy thinking consciously about all the other things going on because you haven't reached the level of confidence where most of your cycles can go to paying attention to the other person's actions. If you're focusing on your own movement and hitting your l cancels and not ****ing up X, Y, and Z, it's difficult to adjust quickly to something unexpected your opponent does. The more comfortable you get with the game in general the easier it becomes to react appropriately when someone does something strange and unexpected like side B-ing with ganon.

 

[idea]

lol that actually sounds kinda legit. too bad almost no one is good with kirby.

although i don't see what kirby can do to ganon if ganon spaces fair and bair in the middle of the stage. especially bair.

 

[Massive]

lol that actually sounds kinda legit. too bad almost no one is good with kirby.

although i don't see what kirby can do to ganon if ganon spaces fair and bair in the middle of the stage. especially bair.

Wavedash in and dtilt or just stuff it with aerial hammer.

I swear, the hammer gimmick is what wins the match. It's ********.

 

[GrazzaB]

Wavedash in and dtilt or just stuff it with aerial hammer.

I swear, the hammer gimmick is what wins the match. It's ********.

Imma try that sometime. Sounds like fun.

 

[-LzR-]

most likely you're too busy thinking consciously about all the other things going on because you haven't reached the level of confidence where most of your cycles can go to paying attention to the other person's actions. If you're focusing on your own movement and hitting your l cancels and not ****ing up X, Y, and Z, it's difficult to adjust quickly to something unexpected your opponent does. The more comfortable you get with the game in general the easier it becomes to react appropriately when someone does something strange and unexpected like side B-ing with ganon.

Almost exactly what Tekk told me
Puff boards is awesome.

 

[Wake]

or MN just sucks and loses to a kirby player



seriously are you kidding me? ganondorf should be ****** kirby.

You're just wrong. WRONG I'm not necessarily saying Kirby wins or anything. I'm saying that it isn't nearly as bad as his other MUs with better characters.

 

[idea]

yeah that applies to any character. if you can't adapt well, play more.

more specifically, watch which part of the screen you're looking at. when i'm playing bad i end up mostly looking at my own character. try to direct your eyes to the other character instead.

but i think ideally you should always be looking at the space between them and you. that's the space of hypothetical movement.

 

[Metà]

That is probably the only match in kirby's favor.

Gannon can't grab Kirby while he's ducking at all. Duck also goes under wizard kick. Dtilt > ledgehog will kill gannon above 40% and Kirby's aerial hammer is unpunishable, it will float gannon up and behind kirby far enough that he can shield any reprisal and utilt for free at most %s. Oh yeah, you can also swallow ledgeguard gannon's recovery since it's so slow/predictable.

It's a weird, weird match.

ok, so kirby has a few things on ganondorf... but do you have any idea how many things ganondorf has on kirby??? he's light as hell and dies from pretty much anything. not to mention his recovery is practically useless against ganon's d-air/u-air edge-guards.

if someone can show me a semi-competent ganondorf losing to a kirby, i will be seriously impressed. this all just sounds like theory-crafting to me. i mean, i've played the match-up before against a decent ganondorf, and it is definitely doable. however, that doesn't mean it's in kirby's favour, nope. kirby is god awful

edit: as for the ducking thing, i remember people saying the same thing in like, 2004 about kirby vs sheik. some people were saying it's in kirby's favour because he can crouch her grabs. I'm like, wtf??? this isn't jigglypuff, being able to crouch his attacks doesn't mean jack if you have no good moves to punish him with. a good ganondorf player will be able to figure out how to deal with a crouching kirby, it's not thaaaat big a deal.

 

[Massive]

ok, so kirby has a few things on ganondorf... but do you have any idea how many things ganondorf has on kirby??? he's light as hell and dies from pretty much anything. not to mention his recovery is practically useless against ganon's d-air/u-air edge-guards.

Kirby actually dies at a slightly higher % than jigglypuff, and you can still use the same DI you'd use on jiggs to counter it. Kirby is much faster on the ground than jiggs but much slower in the air, one cannot cut and paste a jiggs strategy against a competent kirby and expect it to work.

Additionally Kirby has an auto-meteor cancel by holding up. While holding up if at any point Kirby gets out of the spike animation from dair he will instantly (the same frame) go into jump state. Gannon's dair isn't as good as marth's, most characters can survive it anyway.

Ganon's techroll is also very slow. So slow, in fact that Kirby can techchase him with dthrow all day.

if someone can show me a semi-competent ganondorf losing to a kirby, i will be seriously impressed. this all just sounds like theory-crafting to me. i mean, i've played the match-up before against a decent ganondorf, and it is definitely doable. however, that doesn't mean it's in kirby's favour, nope. kirby is god awful

I could tape myself wrecking dmac's 'dorf, but his Ganon doesn't have the street cred it used to.

I'll have to moneymatch kage at FC or something.

 

[Strong Badam]

more specifically, Kirby will auto-meteor-cancel 8 frames after leaving hitlag from Ganon's dair.

 

[Metà]

I don't think you guys fully realize how bad Kirby is. He is god awful in nearly every way.

 

[Wake]

I think everyone gets how bad Kirby is.

 

[Massive]

I don't think you guys fully realize how bad Kirby is. He is god awful in nearly every way.

You aren't the one who plays kirby, lol.

 

[Metà]

I have played enough Kirby to know how bad he is.

 

[Warhawk]

I know this player who really hates Kirby and just everything about Kirby seems to annoy him and so I try to play Kirby just to annoy him, but Kirby's so bad it ends up being more painful for me than it is him lol.

 

[ShroudedOne]

Were you playing me by any chance? I hate EVERYTHING about that character.

 

[knightpraetor]

gonna have to switch to kirby against ganondorf..autocancel ganon's dair edgeguard way too good...i could even see the matchup only being 70-30 in ganon's favor now that you guys have mentioned the like ten things kirby has going for him..just a little more work and we'll get it down to 60-40 ganon and a kirby might even appear in a tourney somewhere

ps- how come kirby autometeor cancels out of it? and can jiggs do that too?

 

[Massive]

Yes, as long as you've used a jump already.
It works well for kirby because his vertical is a lot better than puff's.

Also, nobody loves kirby. I am told playing against my kirby is among the most annoying things anyone can do in melee.

 

[Metà]

Worst character in the game.

 

[Massive]

Worst character in the game.

Tied for worst with pichu, actually.

 

[hungrybox]

kirby > pichu

 

[Krynxe]

Kirby is just Jigglypuff without rest

Pichu is just Pikachu but smaller and hurts himself

Hard to say

 

[idea]

kirby > pichu

wat no

pichu has like...the ability to run...and a slightly better recovery. and more kill power. not counting kirby's hard to hit upsmash.

and it doesn't matter that he hurts himself in the same way that it doesn't matter when fox lasers someone 3-4 times in a stock.