Bad Idea Mafia 4! Game Over, Scum Wins!

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ran, if you don't think it does anything, why would you ask Zen to answer the same question?

 

[ranmaru]

Because if he would try to use some scenario against someone he asked to think in the shoes of scum, I'd use it against him.

Yet I don't want to distract town with my bickering about how one shouldn't ask that or not, so I told him I'd want an answer from him too.

I honestly don't care about the question though. I'd rather they both not answer that, and actually scum hunt. But I can't stop someone from asking useless questions. (Which could bring wifom and distraction)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes you can. This is BIM, so don't give me that crap.

 

[ranmaru]

Well I mean I told him that in case July did answer.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

But if it's a useless question, why would you "waste our time" with asking him? Why not scum hunt? If he tries to use it in a situation with faulty logic, then surely you can argue him down if you're correct. What town motive could you have in asking a question that you think isn't scum hunting? Are you trying to fake contribution?

Gova, what are you thinking about Clownbot's town read on you?

Luxor, I see you there. What is Zen getting at with his most recent line of inquiry?

 

[-Vocal-]

I really don't think people are paying enough attention to Kuz. Do people just not find the case against him strong enough?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That would be a "duh."

 

[Xivii]

Ranmaru, it's not as if she says she is scum with someone I'm going to take that as a direct tell. I have no intention of dissecting into the WIFOM aspect of it either. It's not a useless question. There are more to questions than just surface value. I'm interested in the reasoning she produces and how much she has been paying attention. It looks more to me like you are trying to defend her. Are you afraid of something she might say, Ranmaru?

 

[ranmaru]

No, I'd question your motive regardless of who you asked.

No, I'm not afraid of what she'd say.

 

[Xivii]

Are you ok with the question now that I have explained my motive? How far you in reading?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

No, I'd question your motive regardless of who you asked.

No, I'm not afraid of what she'd say.

Answer me please.

 

[ranmaru]

No not really. I just don't understand if that would be a good question to find out if July has been paying attention. I wouldn't think reasoning would matter, because she's thinking in the shoes of scum. I would think the points you asked me to address would be better suited for seeing if she payed attention.

Also, around page 4. I will be posting a long quote though. (Included with your questions)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey Zen, would you shoot Ran or Luxor if deadline was in five minutes and they were your only choices?

I changed my mind, I don't want Zen shot.

 

[ranmaru]

Answer me please.

It's his question, not mine. I don't want him, nor July to answer it. Yet I feel she'd answer it anyway. That is why I said if she answers, that he should answer it himself.

Not faking contribution.

 

[Luxor]

Hey Zen, would you shoot Ran or Luxor if deadline was in five minutes and they were your only choices?

I changed my mind, I don't want Zen shot.

Wow, you flip-flopped on Zen AGAIN. My trigger finger's getting itchy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Luxor, when the time comes, shoot me. Don't tell me you're going to shoot me. Just do it. No further warning. Your threats don't accomplish anything except tell me to shoot someone before you get the chance.

 

[July]

So just Gova, Summoner, Seph, Delvro, and July left to claim cop/not cop, yeah?

bsl what was your 616 for?

So Seph is the only one left to claim cop/not cop correct?

It's his question, not mine. I don't want him, nor July to answer it. Yet I feel she'd answer it anyway. That is why I said if she answers, that he should answer it himself.

Not faking contribution.

Good instinct there, I have no problem answering the question.

July, if you were scum, who would you say your scumbuddies would be and which scum role would you have based on your play and the interactions with you so far in the game?

When I was scum in KSSU, I ignored my scum partner for the most part, threw some suspicion on him now and then, but mostly avoided directly attacking him even for scummy things. I'd say the person I'm interacting with in a way comparable to that is Gova, because I realize he's been doing scummy things but he isn't as scummy to me as he is to so many other people.

However, since there are three scum in this game, it wouldn't be smart for me to ignore both of them. The other would probably be Luxor or Vocal because I've interacted pretty frequently with them and had some back and forth with both of them. Luxor was a pretty strong suspect of mine early on but that died away a little, and now Vocal and I were going back and forth and that died out recently as well.

As for my role, I haven't really talked much about shooting someone (unlike Ryker has or Luxor in his 655) so that would be smarter for me to do if I was one of the non-shooting scum, but tbh I would probably play it safe and not mention it much if I was godfather as well.

Also, not sure how obvious this is, but the other people in this scenario are there because of how we've interacted, regardless of what I actually think their alignment is.

 

[Clownbot]

You are assuming that Gova is defending his position to the rest of town due to thinking it's in our best interest. But how do you know that he truly feels it is in our best interest as opposed to him being scum arguing a fake case?

If his thought process is not logical, what makes you say that he really does have a thought process and not just making up reasons?

What makes you think that he still thinks not voting has its benefits if you don't even know a single one of those benefits he thinks?

If some told me that they knew that unicorns existed, I would assume it was because they had seen a unicorn before. You're telling me that Gova thinks there is benefit, but you're also saying that you do not know what benefits Gova thinks there is.

I'm trying to think of a way to explain my thought process using the unicorn analogy but it's not working out so hot. I'll just say this: You seem to be assuming I think Gova is town because he has reasons, when it is in fact the converse of that.

Sword, I don't want Gova shot toDay. I'd settle for having him shoot but even then I'm kind of iffy because if he's scum I feel he could easily be the GF. Maybe Luxor should do it, after all his trigger finger's itching. (Just not @Ryker. Ryker's play can be frustrating but he ain't scum.)

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hey Gova, if I'm scum, can Zen be scum?

 

[ranmaru]

Ok, so far I have read up to page 12. I'll post quotes from that range tommorow, most likely. (I'll be hanging out with July though so I'll see if I can get it in by then) I'll also give my thoughts on Zen's questions to me.

Then further on I'll give a continued catch-up of 13-17.

Not sure if I will? Just ask Lux and Zen.

 

[ranmaru]

I'll give some quick stances from what I read:

Kuz scum. Obv from the beginning, yet someone pointed out that he brought attention to himself purposely. So we'll have to double check him.

Ryker scum. He has argued he could lead the town, but has he done much in scumhunting? All he said was that Swords and Luxor should go. Have they done anything scummy? No. He is trying to shut down Zen's options. He even asks questions which can distract town from scumhunting. (I told Zen I didn't want him asking the question either)

Hey July, what would you do if I shot Zen right now and he flipped town cop? We'll say that Seph dies in the night phase and flips VTown. You log in and no one has posted since night ended. What would you do?

I don't know why he would ask that. Basically, is this question scumhunting? No. How would it expose intent?

Gova is null. He is against voting, but is he here often to give his full stances? I also do not want to see Gova saying "That's enough reasoning" when we want more stances from him. Gova always seems to try to shut down options, and I don't really know if he is scum or not. He's really anti-town.


Seph is obv town. First time I have seen that from him on the boards. Although I'd like to see more posts from him. Where he at?

July is null. I can understand that she has trouble posting in a timely manner, so I guess people questioning her and hope for legit responses would be a good approach in reading her. I have been in KSSU with her but at that time I was too busy defending myself from noticing scumminess from her. Yet her partner (X1) did touch up on July being a little inactive, and said nothing more about her.

Vocal null. I'll need to fully read him since he had to catch up as well.

Zen, is town. Or rather, I like how he takes the initiative to put a system in place, even though people have argued about it. At first I didn't like him asking that scenario question, yet I really like everything else.

Swords, null. OMGUS'd, but he didn't commit a scummy act. Yet I don't know why he had mixed up July's name with Smarg here. In RG he was scum with Smarg... But wait, never mind that. Smarg ain't here. He still null.

Luxor is town. He shouldn't have to appease the crowd though. Cmon man, don't agree so easily. Don't give scum room to breathe.

BSL is dumb. He planned to not get reads on purpose, why? (if he is cop) I'm sure he would know we'd need the cop to verify who is scum/bomb.

Delvro is scum. Plus, I noticed he coasted as scum in Celeb, so we obv can't let him do that here. Let's force him to talk. I want his reads.

Clownbot is null. I'll get back on this read.

Summoner is null. I feel as though he is TRYING to hide his role, in an obv way. I'd deff want more posts from him.

==========================================
Also, I'd expect Luxor to want inactives dead, and to push people viewing to post. I like that. Town needs to post.

Town bomb should claim. I mean, if he was in a position where he was at an unofficial L-1, it'd be bad for town if he didn't claim and was shot.

Thing is, Town Bomb should try hard to not come across as scummy. I don't want the situation of Town Bomb at an unofficial L-1 to come up. Why?

Well I think Town Bomb should try to get nk'd. Secretly. Please don't be like BSL here.

I'm for the voting system. I'll need to re-read Zen's post about it though, because I don't really get the mechanics.

That's about it for now. I'll try to get that catch up in.

 

[th3kuzinator]

tl;dr?

Basically, anyone who didn't agree with voting is obvscum.

Gottcha

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Town bomb should claim. I mean, if he was in a position where he was at an unofficial L-1, it'd be bad for town if he didn't claim and was shot.

Thing is, Town Bomb should try hard to not come across as scummy. I don't want the situation of Town Bomb at an unofficial L-1 to come up. Why?

Well I think Town Bomb should try to get nk'd. Secretly. Please don't be like BSL here.

OBJECTION!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

tl;dr?

Basically, anyone who didn't agree with voting is obvscum.

Gottcha

Did you see my question, Kuzzy baby?

 

[BSL]

BSL is dumb. He planned to not get reads on purpose, why? (if he is cop) I'm sure he would know we'd need the cop to verify who is scum/bomb.

did you read? i already explained why i give my reads on purpose.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ryker scum. He has argued he could lead the town, but has he done much in scumhunting? All he said was that Swords and Luxor should go. Have they done anything scummy? No. He is trying to shut down Zen's options. He even asks questions which can distract town from scumhunting. (I told Zen I didn't want him asking the question either)



I don't know why he would ask that. Basically, is this question scumhunting? No. How would it expose intent?

OBJECTION!

What would you say if I told you I didn't know why I asked that question?

 

[ranmaru]

OBJECTION!

I was gonna use that too but I kinda wanta everyone to read my response from here:

Town bomb should claim when and only when at L-1 to prevent casualties. Although Town Bomb should try to prevent from having to claim.

Town Bomb should try to draw a NK so that Scum can't use it later to kill townies. (GF can shoot Town Bomb and stuff happens [I briefly read the Quicktopic in the Evidence drawer (BIM3) and read that the town bomb could be used against town strategically]}

tl;dr?

Basically, anyone who didn't agree with voting is obvscum.

Gottcha

Put Gova as null. Did he agree with it?

did you read? i already explained why i give my reads on purpose.

I read most, yes. If you are cop WHY would you purposely do that, only to get yourself outed, when we needed you?

OBJECTION!

What would you say if I told you I didn't know why I asked that question?

Calling what I see so far. You say that I should say you WOULD scumhunt, more like you SHOULD.

Then I'd say you are backing off on the responsibility of asking that question, that is what I'd say.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ran, what would you do if I claimed bomb?

 

[ranmaru]

Hrmmmmmmm. Damn. (didn't think of it like that) If you did that, I'd have to double check you too. Yet I have seen you do this before to Luxor, and you said you weren't.

You also said you'd shoot, so I'd doubt you being able to shoot or be bomb. Town Bomb is new to me, but I definitely don't want to shoot the bomb if I doubt him.

I'd re-read your posts and your intent. You said you'd rather shoot then vote, so you could likely not be the bomb.

That is all I can think of.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Alright, two scenarios. I claim bomb and everyone else claims not bomb. I'm confirmed town. How would that affect your reads?

Second, I quick shoot Luxor right now and he flips scum. Same questions apply.



Ah hell, have a third.

I claim bomb and someone with little to no recent content, such as Swords or Seph counter claims me. Who would you shoot if you had the only gun?

 

[ranmaru]

Also Ryker, what would you do if someone you thought was scummy, claimed bomb? (under pressure)


Ok, I'd admit I was wrong. I would have to re-evaluate my reads, such as the people who attacked you besides myself.

Depends on how you shoot him. I'd question if you quick shot him, without some good reasoning to back it up. I JUST FELT LIKE IT would seem off and I'd just think you are GF bussing your own goon. If you did have a strong read on Luxor (Ie: He was very nervous) then I'd consider that. I'd have to consider "Why did Ryker quickshoot him?"

Also, if Luxor flipped Mafia GF then ofc I'd think you are town.

Third question, I do not feel like answering. I don't want to speculate over what Swords or Seph may be to give Mafia info for the night.

 

[Gova]

@MOD, I will be V/LA for WHOBO Friday-Sunday

Gova, what are you thinking about Clownbot's town read on you?

Why does he have one of those?

Hey Gova, if I'm scum, can Zen be scum?

Perhaps.

@Clownbot

So, you think I'm town because I have no reasoning? You're not really explaining yourself very well and you don't seem as convinced as I previously would have thought.

I'll give some quick stances from what I read:

Kuz scum. Obv from the beginning, yet someone pointed out that he brought attention to himself purposely. So we'll have to double check him.

How is Kuz obv scum? How do they know that Kuz purposely brought attention to himself?

Ryker scum. He has argued he could lead the town, but has he done much in scumhunting? All he said was that Swords and Luxor should go. Have they done anything scummy? No. He is trying to shut down Zen's options. He even asks questions which can distract town from scumhunting. (I told Zen I didn't want him asking the question either)

How is he trying to shut down Zen's options? Have Swords/Luxor done anything townie to you? Why does he find them scummy in the first place?

Gova is null. He is against voting, but is he here often to give his full stances? I also do not want to see Gova saying "That's enough reasoning" when we want more stances from him. Gova always seems to try to shut down options, and I don't really know if he is scum or not. He's really anti-town.

Ran are you scum?

Why am I null compared to Ryker and Kuz? What did I do differently that makes me null and not scum?

Luxor is town. He shouldn't have to appease the crowd though. Cmon man, don't agree so easily. Don't give scum room to breathe.

Why is Luxor town? Do you not think buddying both sides of an arguement is wishy-washy? Is being like that scummy to you?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Third question, I do not feel like answering. I don't want to speculate over what Swords or Seph may be to give Mafia info for the night.

This is a terrible excuse to dodge. It's a hypothetical situation that is no indicator of their role. I selected two people with very little input for just that reason. What did you gain from dodging that question?

 

[ranmaru]

This is a terrible excuse to dodge. It's a hypothetical situation that is no indicator of their role. I selected two people with very little input for just that reason. What did you gain from dodging that question?

Ah, could you answer my question in #671?

Thing is: I have given my reads on those two players. Town for Seph, Null for Swords. Then I thought of what roles they could be. I don't want to give extra info regarding that because than Maf could use that against Town.

The Town bomb thing is what I don't want to get into.

So, that is it. Why do you want to continue further with the scenarios?

May I get a run down of your recent scumpicks, Ryker?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I can. And I won't. Note how I don't make excuses when I dodge questions.

The bomb is something that has to be taken into account and I don't think you are.

Lux, Swords, Seph, maybe you and Zen.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Did you see my question, Kuzzy baby?

Nah, I missed it.

Don't you worry though, even if it takes me all Day, I will locate it!

 

[ranmaru]

@Gova:

You are null because you are the same way in Aimafia. Like I said, you try to shut down options. You are against voting, so how do you propose we 'lynch' the person who we think is scum as a majority? I never said Swords was townie, just null. Luxor is wishywashy, yes, but this is not scummy. It is just weak, dumb per say. Kuz is obvscum because of this post:

He uses this

"Because people like me and gova can ***** about not liking the system and therefore have an excuse not to use it, giving us a free pass from making connections while others do make them. This gives scum a better selection for NKs and spreading fake WIFOM the next day from NK deaths. Kapish? Did not work in the last three BiMs and it won't in this one. "

What kinda **** is that? He was basically trying to clear himself as town. That shouldn't matter.

Wanna know why seph, I am so town, nator?

Because people like me and gova can ***** about not liking the system and therefore have an excuse not to use it, giving us a free pass from making connections while others do make them. This gives scum a better selection for NKs and spreading fake WIFOM the next day from NK deaths. Kapish? Did not work in the last three BiMs and it won't in this one.

Whoever said the hammerer should be the one to shoot is scum and should die asap.

Listen up. FAKING A SHOT IS A MODKILLABLE OFFENSE.

Scenario: We have one scummy person shoot another scummy person.

1. If the person says he cannot shoot when we decide he is the shooter, he must claim a PR. If he gets CCd we decide who is lying and shoot him. If someone interrupts this process and quickshoots someone else, we know that person is the godfather trying to save a buddy.

2. If the person can shoot then they are most likely town (with a small % chance of being the godfather). If we get them to shoot another scummy player than we have DOUBLE that chance of outing scum through not being able to shoot and shooting another scummy player.

This is the way we will operate. If people don't get hasty and quickshoot people, town will win. Quickshooting has literally been the driving force behind every town BiM loss thus far.

Also, Cops don't claim unless you have a guilty and a clear. That or you deem it necessary to.

Goes without saying we no shooting someone until the person being shot claims.



Now take all that in, realize scumKuz would tell you all of this hoping to get on your good side, and then realize its bad meta and discard it. What are you left with?

townKuz.

Now lets kick some scum *** for once. kthx

Also, I'd like your stances too Gova.

 

[Gova]

Ran, are you scum?

I'd like you to read this thread.

 

[ranmaru]

I can. And I won't. Note how I don't make excuses when I dodge questions.

The bomb is something that has to be taken into account and I don't think you are.

Lux, Swords, Seph, maybe you and Zen.

That is unhelpful. You should have a reason. I'm upfront.

It's a two way street here, and you'd be lying if you say that I haven't taken the Bomb into account. I mean, then what were the instances I mentioned "Town Bomb" about then? Was I not really thinking about it?

And I did take it into account.

 

[ranmaru]

Ran, are you scum?

I'd like you to read this thread.

No. Why did you ask that question? Did it help your scumhunting? If so, how?

I will broski. I just wanted to get my quick stances in.