-Vocal-
Smash Hero
I think you're too biased against the idea of a Backroom to try to reform it.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Backroom Reform: Current Topic -> Success?
- Thread starter -Ran
- Start date
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
I'm not biased, just realistic.
EDIT:
I hope you all realize not one person in the BBR is taking this thread seriously
They are too stupid to consider that there might be smart people outside the back room
EDIT 2:
the BBR members that did post here were really only trying to tell you your wrong and how great they are
EDIT:
I hope you all realize not one person in the BBR is taking this thread seriously
They are too stupid to consider that there might be smart people outside the back room
EDIT 2:
the BBR members that did post here were really only trying to tell you your wrong and how great they are
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Have you spoken to every Backroom member there is?
Sounds like bias to me. Simply saying.
And I can't remember if it was in this thread or elsewhere, but BR members have definitely admitted there are problems and listened to possible solutions.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
The issue with the backroom is just simply that it has no power because no TOs will pay attention to it. Not even the TOs who are a part of it! If TOs join a "new" BBR, it should be very clear that they are agreeing to use the ruleset they help build in their tournaments.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
This is very different from MemphisChan's posts which more or less amount "there should be no BR at all."
Also, I'm skeptical of this statement that no TOs in the BR are using the ruleset. Remember, different people have different opinions, and my theory is that those in favor of the ruleset are simply less vocal (hee hee) about their opinions.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Yeah, it was Jinesah who said, and he was replaying to a comment I made saying the same thing I am now
I... don't now about that. I think its 50/50 with every member.
One of the criteria of the current backroom is posting activity and being able to post with viable reason.
I mean, why let someone it if they don't post or can't back up their points. And to point out, you're sort of agreeing with my previous comment about ******* being admitted because if they actually allow people in and not post than it literally is just social class thing
There's really nothing that can be done except COMPLETELY start over or just get rid of it.
It will never happen though, the idea of having a yellow name and not having a private forum is scary
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
All right, let me put it this way. Axel Strife is BBR. APEX was not using the BBR ruleset. UTDZac is BBR. The Phase tournaments do not use the BBR rulset. Et cetera.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
well you also have to revolve around the trends of the region. EC is incredibly anal about stages, like almost Japan anal
and we also have different views on bans, so its more of an EC ruleset, but that doesn't mean he didn't use that as a guideline. If anyone actually had a part of creating the ruleset, i'm one of the TOs that had an opinion was Alex. or at least expressed his opinion to the BBR
and we also have different views on bans, so its more of an EC ruleset, but that doesn't mean he didn't use that as a guideline. If anyone actually had a part of creating the ruleset, i'm one of the TOs that had an opinion was Alex. or at least expressed his opinion to the BBR
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
O_O
I meant posting in public. Posting in the BR is what matters - if they don't want to post in the ordinary forums and have people flame them then you can't blame them for that.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
What? I just re-read everything and I'm a little lost. What do you mean again?
I missed this whole posting in public thing I think. Could you explain a little further, or reiterate something I might have missed?
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
...
I said that the ones who support the ruleset probably just don't post, and you used that to go on a tirade about how ppl not posting is the reason the BR is broken etc.
I mean they don't post about it outside of the BR.
Come on, you can't seriously insinuate that none or even most of the TOs in the BR don't support this ruleset. That's just bad logic
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
OH, I thought you meant actually posting in the backroom. I think I missed something somewhere about it being in public. ....yeah
Well, anyway, I would think that most of the members would post to try and explain it rather than just 3. I don't know. If they really supported it and were the dbags that supposedly lead a group of people you would think they would be all over letting people know why they ended up choosing what they did, no?
granted its based on voting, but at least express the winning votes argument or something
Well, anyway, I would think that most of the members would post to try and explain it rather than just 3. I don't know. If they really supported it and were the dbags that supposedly lead a group of people you would think they would be all over letting people know why they ended up choosing what they did, no?
granted its based on voting, but at least express the winning votes argument or something
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
But...they are...
In the Ruleset 3.1 thread itself there are explanations for many of the counterpicks that people have a problem with.
And Pierce created this thread in an effort to answer question that aren't addressed there, and iirc at least 4 other BR members said that they would help as well. (They're volunteering their time here, so it's not a detriment to those not participating; it's a testament that there are BR members who care and also have the time to help people who have problems.)
I'm going to assume that most tournaments in the future aren't going to use the BBR ruleset. With all the negative feedback it got, its use doesn't seem likely. I know my state is keeping our own rules.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
well you've cornered me, I didn't even see that thread. you've won this round sir vocal
although i still say the backroom is useless ********
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
And that's bias
I'm glad you can at least see that they do make an effort now.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
its useless *** backwards effort, but effort none the less i guess
and its i'm not being biased. i'm just looking at facts and making a dermination.
you didn't argue that they don't argue that anyone with even at least a little common sense could do at least the same job they do
and its i'm not being biased. i'm just looking at facts and making a dermination.
you didn't argue that they don't argue that anyone with even at least a little common sense could do at least the same job they do
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
I don't think a little common sense is enough. It takes a skilled and knowledgeable thinker to fully explore some of these issues, and even then the best ideas are only reached through conversation with others who have thought thoroughly about the issue. From what I hear, there are currently some people who don't do this, but that goes to the issue of removing them (which I also hear the BR is in the process of doing).
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
i'd call you an idiot if you just didn't out debate me
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
I suppose I should call myself lucky then
gallax
Smash Hero
You good sir have an amazing attitude. I hope you plan on applying into the BBR.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
i hope he hope doesnt
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Why thank you :D And yes, I most definitely do in the future ^_^ I still need to make a name for myself on the tournament scene (it's hard to get rides) but people shall know me soon enough
The more I read, the more I want to chew out memphischains. Like, really, I was about to let off on my keyboard relentlessly if no one had been replying to him (which, looking back at my post, I did anyway). I don't mean this post to be offensive, and I don't mean it to represent the BBR. I, as a single member of the Brawl BackRoom, want to say this from the bottom of my heart, so all your opinions of what you want to say should be directed at me.
I can generalize just like you can, memphis, but it doesn't mean I'll be right. You saying the whole of BBR is stupid JUST BECAUSE they have a name color and a title is in and of itself a stupid reason to argue why we are good or bad. You're not being realistic, you're being insane.
If it wasn't for the BBR, I assure you, Brawl's rules/views on characters/stagelists/debates would be behind by like a year and a half. How would you have started to play Brawl without the guidance of the BBR's ruleset? EVERY RULESET IN AMERICA has been affected by the first ruleset we released, in how we determined which stages are neutral/counters/banned, what's the stock/time limit, counterpick system, you name it. Without us, all of the coasts would disagree with each other so much, we would never have found even ground to call an universal ruleset. The fact that we can't land one that pleases everyone means that everyone has different views on EVERYTHING related to Brawl, not that we are too ****ing stupid to understand what the real game should be like, or how to appeal to the entirety of the masses, not one competitive player left unhappy.
But of course, your view of us is that of a pile of idiots who waddle on about, having "pillow fights with each other". Do you know what the core difference between a BBR member and a non-BBR member is? The ability to formulate arguments/debates/discussions/ideas that make sense and are logical, as well as having an attached mindset of what the competitive scene should look like. Turns out all the people added in there, at the moment of adding them, show great promise and contribute a lot to the BBR and we're all nifty about it all. As time passes, interest decays/real-time events happen and they get inactive, and they get purged from the BBR (a recent addition to our policy, made way before the ruleset v3.0 was released, to prove our want of making the BBR a very active place full of bright and eager minds)... You can't say we're ALL too stupid simply because things didn't end up the way you wanted it to end up, or because we disagree with the most vocal members of the community (who might be wrong, ever think about that?), or because the MAJORITY of the BBR voted on a matter and won as opposed to the MINORITY of the BBR that voted on the other option and lost (which, obviously, made the stagelist what it is: the majority wins).
Inactivity? Inactive members are purged. If you mean those who refused to vote, would you rather have people forced to voting on everything they feel they find even if they're not the most informed? Or would you rather only the ones who know what they're talking about vote on such matters? I can tell you right now that people who DON'T vote on a matter (such as stages) are much more active on a different matter (such as character discussions, tier lists, rules, statistics done for arguments [like Crow!'s data charts], etc), does it mean that because the BBR has 50 members the voting of only 30 makes it bad? No, it just means we have people who are more specialized in some aspects of Brawl that are not as well-versed in other aspects of Brawl, which are taken by OTHER specialists.
How in the world would Brawl have gotten to where it is right now without the BBR? Even though some of the most vocal members are trolls (see in the recent replies: Orion, etecoon, niftybird, etc), most of the community would agree that even though we may not be perfect, we're the backbone of the community, we help restrain it from collapsing unto itself. We take all the heat from the players by making our opinions the MOST vocal (see: tierlist, stage discussions, character discussions, rulesets, etc) instead of there being no leading group and members caving in to flamefests as to "why others are so blockheaded they can't see what is the best course of action for the game". Have you ever thought about the BBR that way? I would think not, the most I've heard from you is that we're all stupid. And that's a very shallow-minded, UNREALISTIC, observation. You don't even know what goes on in there, so what solid proof do you have of us being so stupid and worthless?
I'll be waiting for your response.
I can generalize just like you can, memphis, but it doesn't mean I'll be right. You saying the whole of BBR is stupid JUST BECAUSE they have a name color and a title is in and of itself a stupid reason to argue why we are good or bad. You're not being realistic, you're being insane.
If it wasn't for the BBR, I assure you, Brawl's rules/views on characters/stagelists/debates would be behind by like a year and a half. How would you have started to play Brawl without the guidance of the BBR's ruleset? EVERY RULESET IN AMERICA has been affected by the first ruleset we released, in how we determined which stages are neutral/counters/banned, what's the stock/time limit, counterpick system, you name it. Without us, all of the coasts would disagree with each other so much, we would never have found even ground to call an universal ruleset. The fact that we can't land one that pleases everyone means that everyone has different views on EVERYTHING related to Brawl, not that we are too ****ing stupid to understand what the real game should be like, or how to appeal to the entirety of the masses, not one competitive player left unhappy.
But of course, your view of us is that of a pile of idiots who waddle on about, having "pillow fights with each other". Do you know what the core difference between a BBR member and a non-BBR member is? The ability to formulate arguments/debates/discussions/ideas that make sense and are logical, as well as having an attached mindset of what the competitive scene should look like. Turns out all the people added in there, at the moment of adding them, show great promise and contribute a lot to the BBR and we're all nifty about it all. As time passes, interest decays/real-time events happen and they get inactive, and they get purged from the BBR (a recent addition to our policy, made way before the ruleset v3.0 was released, to prove our want of making the BBR a very active place full of bright and eager minds)... You can't say we're ALL too stupid simply because things didn't end up the way you wanted it to end up, or because we disagree with the most vocal members of the community (who might be wrong, ever think about that?), or because the MAJORITY of the BBR voted on a matter and won as opposed to the MINORITY of the BBR that voted on the other option and lost (which, obviously, made the stagelist what it is: the majority wins).
Inactivity? Inactive members are purged. If you mean those who refused to vote, would you rather have people forced to voting on everything they feel they find even if they're not the most informed? Or would you rather only the ones who know what they're talking about vote on such matters? I can tell you right now that people who DON'T vote on a matter (such as stages) are much more active on a different matter (such as character discussions, tier lists, rules, statistics done for arguments [like Crow!'s data charts], etc), does it mean that because the BBR has 50 members the voting of only 30 makes it bad? No, it just means we have people who are more specialized in some aspects of Brawl that are not as well-versed in other aspects of Brawl, which are taken by OTHER specialists.
How in the world would Brawl have gotten to where it is right now without the BBR? Even though some of the most vocal members are trolls (see in the recent replies: Orion, etecoon, niftybird, etc), most of the community would agree that even though we may not be perfect, we're the backbone of the community, we help restrain it from collapsing unto itself. We take all the heat from the players by making our opinions the MOST vocal (see: tierlist, stage discussions, character discussions, rulesets, etc) instead of there being no leading group and members caving in to flamefests as to "why others are so blockheaded they can't see what is the best course of action for the game". Have you ever thought about the BBR that way? I would think not, the most I've heard from you is that we're all stupid. And that's a very shallow-minded, UNREALISTIC, observation. You don't even know what goes on in there, so what solid proof do you have of us being so stupid and worthless?
I'll be waiting for your response.
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
I named it Meta Knight because it's just so win
I agree with everything you just said and you said it with all the frustration I withheld - I liek yu
B!squick
Smash Master
So what's the official word on the Confederate BR? This all talk or what?
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
You mean the thing talked about in that group? Well, I've been trying to set something up but not knowing who the **** is an influential TO in a region is no help. I've PM'd a few people waiting for replies and got nothing... I've been trying to contact Ran to get his help on it but he's been consistently ignoring me. Maybe he has some more info... I dunno. I'm kind of at a dead end right here.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
**** yo, sounds like you lost the pillow fighting championship or something.
So like, whats the ruleset like for the pillow fight matches? 1 pillow, FD, 8 min timer, only pillow contact?
Look dude, you seem to be taking this a little more personal than you should.
I think that a seemingly smart individual like yourself would have heard of the saying that "A person can be smart, but people are dumb". That is basically from I see as an outsider going on with the back room. Also, don't think its just with the brawl room, I can't possibly image what the melee room is talking about that hasn't been already discussed 6000 times. I guess there a few random minor things involving trends of the current meta game, but it still seems silly to me.
But to get back on topic, I was playing with 3 stocks 7 minutes the night of the games release, I'm sure a bunch of people were too. It isn't rocket science. 4 stocks is to long, 2 is too short. Great, 3 stocks it is. Wow, this pokemon stage is kind of annoying, I'm going to turn it off. Awesome. It has nothing to do with something I didn't like coming out of you guys, I personally just ignore everything and generate a ruleset that I find fair. If people don't show up then whatever. It is more about the way you guys go about handling members and presenting decisions you have made as a group. OF COURSE people are going to say you're the backbone, when brawl came out and we got a plethera of registrations on here from people who had no idea how to really play this game competitively, they are obviously going to look into the whole "backroom suggested stuff". They didn't know any better than to just copy/paste what was written.
And I can't believe you think that the backroom is THAT important that if it didn't exist we would "collapse". That has to be one of the most absurd things I have ever heard. Are you really that dictatorial and condescending that you think we wouldn't be able to function with out some people "suggesting" what to do? Just because you're smart doesn't mean we're stupid. I'm sor tof offended for the entire community by that comment, not really because I actually don't care, but if I did I'm sure I would have found that somewhat offensive.
Oh, and I'm sorry you take heat for stuff that has no point to it.
....
Honestly dude, it's obvious that this is just a strong opinion of mine. I've been saying this for like 2 years or something. Its nothing personal towards you or anyone that is in there (hell, Dazwa is the one that made my signature which is more than clear that with my feelings towards the backroom). Did you never read about me just literally ****ting on OS for stuff he said about sonic? arguments I've had with panda and various other members because THEY were the ones that were being biased and unreasonable?
I can dig some stuff up later, but I have work johns at the moment and have spent way to much time in writing this but I at least felt you deserved at least half a response after making your opinion so clear.
Yes.
You start writing somewhere where lots of arguing goes on, in a topic that includes me, you should be expecting a longer and winding argument to follow every time you answer. So, here goes nothing.
This goes with every private organization ever. Some people think it's stupid, some people think its necessary, others think the world will be better without it. The government is often viewed in these lights too, doesn't mean that the world WILL be better without it or that it IS stupid. Could you imagine an America where there were no laws, and people would have to make up their OWN laws? The massive difference between each county's legal-and-illegal would conflict with every other county who had a difference with what they considered legal and illegal. Do you think that this world would be better than the one we have right now?
Well whoop-de-doo, Mr. Genius Man. I forgot you knew more about competitive Brawl than the majority of people in SWF. If it weren't for the Melee BackRoom, you'd probably be playing Brawl with items, playing through Sudden Death, probably not even run tourneys, etc. Even though the MBR may seem just as silly to you, they are the ones who 'created' the competitive Smash scene the way it is: no sudden death, no items, counterpick system, etc... You can't say that you were born knowing this, or that you ran tourneys with wild rules like the former, then slowly changed them around when you saw people complain majorly about it. That would be lying to yourself.
Are you blind? Is your frontal lobe intact? Think about it... There's lots of people bashing the BBR whenever we do a public release of anything (or few, but vocal, trolls). But a month later, you see that our release is now the 'sommon sense' of the competitive scene. "Oh, Mario is low tier obviously!", yeah well who were the ones who got a group going, started giving their collective opinions about Brawl topics and getting flamed at first? The BBR. Have you seen anyone else even ATTEMPT at globalizing the Smash community? You as a TO should take it upon yourself to globalize your ruleset as well if you feel we are being completely "stupid". If you have no interest in doing so, I have no idea what the hell you are doing here, bashing the BBR for what we thought was the best thing the community needed: providing guidance. If you won't provide guidance and instead push for an independent competitive scene in a game where the standard rules are NOT the same as every other fighting game (wacky stages, items, sudden death, 4-player action, recovering...), then prepare for a stagnated Smash scene, or one that moves at a snail's pace, because while you spend your time out here making fun of the BBR, we're spending time in there CONSTANTLY doing things. But of course, you wouldn't know, since half the things you say are based on the premise that we DON'T do anything (aaaaaand personal bias against an organization which is viewed as a congregation of the best and brightest).
You would not even be running tournaments if it weren't for the BR's, saying otherwise is just stupid. People would all be playing the games their way, and when they went to your tourney, they would react with "why is this rule here?" or "I usually play with 2 minutes" or "i wanna play with items since everyone plays with them!". I am not exaggerating, this is exactly what would have happened if you would've ran a tourney with NO pre-existing BR's. No one would have knowledge of the counterpick system, nor have previous experiences in tourneys, nor want to play the game if it were too different from what they normally play it like (everyone would probably main the space animals and Sonic, then race for the smash ball).
And yes, the BBR deserves THAT much credit. I'm not condescending, I'm not elitistic, but really... What other group of members have you seen making their opinions as vocal as ours, enough to warrant our own forum and user titles? What other group of members do you see following up, despite the massive amounts of hate poured into their topics that would make any other member want to delete their post, or disappear from SWF for a while? We can't just release stuff then abandon the thread and ignore everyone, because since we've been made to be the head of the Brawl community, we have responsibilities to the community itself as long as it doesn't clash with our own rules (like, no leaking of clear information for example).
You know why we get so much heat? Because it's an important issue that people disagree with in the end. As you can see from Ruleset 3.0 and 3.1, we DO listen to the people and we DO think about what their main concerns are. When we get few but vocal members complaining, we tend to ignore. When we get a LOT of vocal members complaining, now THAT can't be ignored, we really did do something wrong to have received such negative responses. It doesn't mean we take care of everything people say about us, but it does make the community happier that we are really trying to reach a conclusion everyone can agree with.
To tell you the truth, no I haven't. I spend more time these days in the Kirby, moderator, and the BBR forums than in the Tactical Discussion forums. I got some responsibilities I took upon myself, and am looking forward to seeing those responsibilities through. So, sorry I didn't read your posts from a long time ago, I probably wasn't here.
PS: Really, even if it's just your opinion, you have to do better than that. It's completely unrealistic. Every time a community forms, a group of the brightest congregate to assume leadership. Every single time, in every community ever made. If the BBR wasn't here, another group resembling them would be there. And guess what? The exact same thing that happens with us would happen with them. People will complain about there not being enough effort, or the group being full of idiots, or how wrong they are whenever they make public releases... It means that people are different, and just like what would happen in your tourneys if the BackRooms never existed, people will be there to complain about why X thing is not Y thing, when they believe Y thing to be the best course of action.
B!squick
Smash Master
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Let it be known, that memphischains should not be replied to. He voices his opinions strongly in a forum that incites lots of argument, and calls the BR's stupid. When a BR member comes and argues with him, he fails to reply and lowers himself to these kind of posts. Literally, the definition of what a troll does.
Vocal, I appreciate your patience (thumbs up!), but you shouldn't feel obligated to answer to this guy.
Budget Player Cadet_
Smash Hero
What do you mean? I tried looking down the listings for active tournaments and active TOs, I guess... I could just come out and ask... What I really need is someone who has a little more standing in the community (I've got this bad reputation) and who knows more TOs (I don't know that many). My idea is good, IMO (and I haven't met anyone who disagreed other than TheThantalus who supported a lot more influence from top pros and maybe overswarm; can't tell if he was against the idea or not because he was already pissed at me and his response of "you're an idiot" might have been to a previous statement I made...), but I don't have the know-how to execute it correctly. Plus, most of the group I was looking at for "smart people advising TOs" (which is only slightly less important than the TOs) does not seem to support the idea as they are big fans of the BBR.That sucks. Did you try the tournament board?
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Haha hey man sorry, probably not a good idea when you're serious. I'll hit you up tonight on AIM or something and we can talk about it. I really am at work and shouldn't be on here.
Oh and I am totally a troll, I can't deny it. And I'm really bad at it.
But i do feel relatively strong about it so lets talk later ok? Or if you don't want to its fine, either way its all good.
Actually, i think I will chat you up on AIM and try to convince you. First I have to finish some important stuff (looking for a job before college starts next week, so I'm in a hurry), but maybe later today once I'm finished, I'll look around for your sn.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
I don't know if I will be able to hop on today but I'll keep an eue for you too
Orion*
Smash Researcher
kewwky im not reading your walls of text thanks
and, LOL i troll but you act like what i say isnt true sometimes. its not like i just speak garbage ROFL
and, LOL i troll but you act like what i say isnt true sometimes. its not like i just speak garbage ROFL
-Vocal-
Smash Hero
Sounds good to me
You said everything in your response that I would have and even more. I'm gonna favorite this page for when people bash on the BR in the future
P.S. Orion, everyone knows you're a troll anyways :D
It's not about whether or not you lie, it's about whether or not you like pissing people off, or write stuff in a way that pisses people off and you don't really give a crap about it even though mods have 'told' you before (infractions).
Negative feedback is good as long as you don't incite flamefests and rage. Forum rules encourage posting that don't incite flamefests and rage. You still incite flamefests and rage along your negative feedback anyway.
Kewkky with the clutch verbal. Props.