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- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
the ball tickler
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B&B! Zero Suit General Discussion
- Thread starter SinisterB
- Start date
indyrenegade
Smash Cadet
I figured out short hop into lazer and short hop into nair on her recently and my matches are getting more interesting. It's nasty how fast she puts the latter out O.O
Yeah I'll agree, a lot of times if I have space between me and the opponent from dashdancing or just a bad read I'll throw out an uncharged lazer and proceed to get back in. If they don't get hit it can create a frametrap, if they're good at PS I shorthop into waveland whatever, and if they do get hit it leads to a combo.
indyrenegade
Smash Cadet
Combos on her are fun; plus she's fast and she covers the stage very well- if you're moving with your opponent, like dancing, you can just follow with nairs and bairs all over the place while jumping with them, which is easing me into shorthopping those moves. How's your recovery game with her?
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I actually rarely have any trouble, on occasion I'll play someone really good at edgeguarding and have to mix up, but most of the time down+b to side/up+b is all I need. Combine that with mixups to get onto stage and you're golden. I always try and save my jump if I can help it, but I'm also not afraid to jump out of down+b if I have a bad feeling or the opponent is doing something I don't agree with.
indyrenegade
Smash Cadet
My only issues with getting back is if I sometimes put out her side b or up b too late or too close to the stage, and the tether never connects, so it costs her a stock.
Did you know you can approach the side of a stage (ones like Warioware) and if you're really far down, you can use her spin jump to roll up the side of the stage? That'll get you about halfway up, then you can connect to the ledge with her tether.
Well see I played Sheik in brawl, so her tether distance feels so generous to me. I think I've only died once or twice from that issue, and yeah I usually just down+b>walljump>Up+b. if the walljump wasn't enough you can always jumpboost the Up+b.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
As fun as this character is... What is it with me and Up-B lately? I seem to be consistently messing those up. Like, I'll tether to the stage and then I press down on the analog stick.
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Oro?!
Smash Hero
I do that a lot when I'm trying to go too fast. Just slow down and make sure that you tether reel completely before pressing things. That is unless you are doing untether/retether stuff.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
Wait, you can do retethering?
Oro?!
Smash Hero
Yes. If you drop down from your tether, and then upB again. It's a bit more dangerous/difficult than other tether characters because ZSS falls faster than Ivy, and every other tether character has the benefit of actually having an upB.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
True, but I suppose it's a nice little trick that us Zamus player have.
Your mileage will vary with what I said...
Your mileage will vary with what I said...
Oro?!
Smash Hero
It most definitely is CCable. Since it's a multi hit actually, if you are grounded and get hit by either the first or second "multihit" portion of the attack, then you can indefinitely crouch cancel those hits and shield before the final sideB hit comes out. In addition, pretty much every character can CC the last hit (the one that matters) until at least mid %s. I have seen DDD CC sideB at like 60%.
Oh... that's actually really good info to know.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
I'm not actually sure if it's indefinitely long, and there are a lot of factors that might make it happen a lot longer. For some reason that I don't know, jump squat affects similar situations like being able to CC-> shield Squirtle's initial dsmash hits. Weight and fall speed might impact how long the initial sideB hits can be CC->shielded as well. I have had Wolf CC->shield at well over 100% though vs sideB. Due to it's startup, endlag, and the fact that grounded sideB is clankable, there are severe drawbacks to using it excessively in my opinion.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
No, not at all.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
The first few frames before they actually jump.
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
i used to rely on side B a lot as a spacing tool (Brawl habit) and it caught everyone off guard at first...
now they shield it/CC it and i get wrecked if i use it too much.
now they shield it/CC it and i get wrecked if i use it too much.
SpiderMad
Smash Master
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 4,968
he said in reference to something though, stopping squirtle's d-smash or something
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
Ah. Retract my statement then.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
I don't know why. I have been told that for instance, only 4 frame jump squat characters and lower can SDI into the ground/CC->Shield Diddy's first hit fsmash before the second hit. If you have a 5 frame jumpsquat or higher and get hit by the first hit of Diddy FSmash, then the second hit will automatically connect basically. It is the same with Squirtle DSmash, and I assume ZSS sideB. There are probably a plethora of multihit moves that function similarly as well. Those are the only moves that I can think of though.
Oro?!
Smash Hero
I was mistaken it is landing. The characters that do have the longer landing do have longer jumpsquats though. There is no correlation.
GMaster171
Smash Ace
This post has that data: http://smashboards.com/threads/project-m-social-thread-v2.339825/page-444#post-16502770
(Monkunit's post if it doesn't go there by itself)
It's not that they have a slower CC, its just that when they DI into the ground during a multihit attack, they may be unable to start crouching in the middle of the move, where other could.
(Monkunit's post if it doesn't go there by itself)
It's not that they have a slower CC, its just that when they DI into the ground during a multihit attack, they may be unable to start crouching in the middle of the move, where other could.
indyrenegade
Smash Cadet
I'm watching your match against Laz that happened at Exposure 8 and all of your kills are sassy.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
Is there any way to let go of the tether without fast falling?
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
Speaking of platform shield drops, shield drop up airs are great. Escapes pressure and can totally turn the tables. Especially since downward hitting aerials seem to often lose or trade with upward hitboxes.
Also, it's been 3 weeks since I've last played and turns out I literally can't waveland properly on platforms for **** now. My vanilla WD is still consistent, but i seriously keep on airdodging through the platforms or land and then spotdodge.
Is their a trick that I forgot?
Ugh my tech skillz went from good to playing smash wearing mittens.
Also, it's been 3 weeks since I've last played and turns out I literally can't waveland properly on platforms for **** now. My vanilla WD is still consistent, but i seriously keep on airdodging through the platforms or land and then spotdodge.
Is their a trick that I forgot?
Ugh my tech skillz went from good to playing smash wearing mittens.
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Darkshooter
Smash Ace
Don't worry man, us smash players all have good and bad days. Just gotta keep digging and carrying that weight.
BILL?
Smash Apprentice
It'll probably come back after some practice, just a little frustrating.
Quick question about the SH fastfall auto cancel Up-air, do I want to do a rising Uair ASAP after jump then fastfall at peak of jump? Or should I ff late/on hit?
Quick question about the SH fastfall auto cancel Up-air, do I want to do a rising Uair ASAP after jump then fastfall at peak of jump? Or should I ff late/on hit?
Xaltis
Smash Hero
Hello everyone.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
What's up Xaltis?
Xaltis
Smash Hero
Just getting more involved in the ZSS PM boards. Since I'm pretty sure I'm the best ZSS in Florida by now.
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
Me too actually, I'm hooked on both her and Snake right now.
EDIT: Forgot to ask something: How come she's got trouble against Fox/Falco? Seems like (in Oro's hands at least) they're not so bad. Fox slighlty less so, because he doesnt have lasers that can stop a tanker right in it's tracks.
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Axrz
Smash Apprentice
Their neutral games are just better. It's difficult to win neutral against them, and when you do, it's very difficult to get something started since you don't have anything guaranteed until mid percents. Falco can just shoot lasers and make it hard to do anything, while fox can run away and laser forever since his projectile is full-screen and ZSS' isn't.