Oro?!
Smash Hero
I have put way too much time into fighting spacies, and I still lose to them. They are terrible matchups. Don't be fooled.
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B&B! Zero Suit General Discussion
- Thread starter SinisterB
- Start date
Darkshooter
Smash Ace
Assumption really is the mother of all F-ups... And geez man, didn't know she had such a massive uphill battle in the form of those two. Good thing I've got a Snake in training then!
Is it any worse/better against Sheik?
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cannedbread
Smash Lord
Uair asap, fastfall at the peak of the jump
I haven't tried it on a player yet so yeah idk if it's really viable or not
Roche_CL
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 9, 2006
- Messages
- 410
Does anyone know if she is going to be buffed for next patch? and if it is, what are going to be her buffs?
She could have a chainthrow against spacies, that would be nice, since a lot of chars have, or at least more reliable combos against them.
And Fair's 2 hits should connect easier IMO.
She could have a chainthrow against spacies, that would be nice, since a lot of chars have, or at least more reliable combos against them.
And Fair's 2 hits should connect easier IMO.
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BILL?
Smash Apprentice
Yes.
The running dsmash is run>crouch>dsmash.
But you can't truly crouch out of initial dash, only out of run. To dsmash out of the actual dash animation you need to wavedash out of the dash. (Dash is initial dash, like when you can dash dance; in a run you can't do that quick turnaround anymore)
The running dsmash is run>crouch>dsmash.
But you can't truly crouch out of initial dash, only out of run. To dsmash out of the actual dash animation you need to wavedash out of the dash. (Dash is initial dash, like when you can dash dance; in a run you can't do that quick turnaround anymore)
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
the wait for crouching after dashing is longer than you would think, it took me a little while to get dashing Dsmash down properly
cannedbread
Smash Lord
you could always pivot too
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Currently a Link main, but my friend recently told me my ZSS is improving drastically so I picked her up in hopes of avoiding my least favorite MU's - the Link ditto and Captain Falcon.
Just a really quick question - how does her neutral game work? Can't help but play her like Sheik where I spam paralyzer until I find an opening for punishment.
Just a really quick question - how does her neutral game work? Can't help but play her like Sheik where I spam paralyzer until I find an opening for punishment.
I would stay as mobile as possible if you plan on spamming para, whenever I do I find that doing aerial uncharged shots and dash cancelling them is the way to go.
Roxas215
Smash Lord
Is it worth trying to get better at the fox/falco/wolf mu with ZSS or just say screw it and pick up a secondary for them? Zss is my PM main and by far my best character yet spacies wreck me and i do MUCH better with Charizard against Spacies and i just picked him up like 2 weeks ago. Is the Zss-Spacies MU really this bad?
It is pretty bad but just like any MU repetitive play in it will make you so much better at it. Just look at Oro, he makes them look like a cakewalk yet hes stated it's still not easy for him. It really is up to you, either pick up a secondary for the MU or play the character I assume you love.
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
i've taken to picking Yoshi vs spacies recently. more fun at least until i learn the MU properly
I take spacies to WW, and any non-DL tri-platform stage. Once my glasses come in I'm gonna stop auto-banning lylat, because that stage on paper seems hnng for zss.
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cannedbread
Smash Lord
Can anyone convince me that this character is viable at all because the more i play her the less i feel she's anything higher than mid-low tier at best
Until then she's getting dropped so freaking fast and I'm not looking back
Until then she's getting dropped so freaking fast and I'm not looking back
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She's lower mid tier. She has some pretty strong match ups, but loses to like fox/falco/wolf/falcon/shiek.
BleachigoZX
Smash Master
So what kind of changes can we expect for the next version of the game? coughOROcough. After I got bopped at Xanadu I put a lot of effort in getting familiar with ZSS and hope to do better than I did last time I was at a Xanadu (9th lel)
I just wondered what the people who frequent the boards here think about ZSS and her potential updates. Personally, I would love better grab frame data (or at least let the hitbox linger for the 98776564 frames she leaves her whip out) and her jab string to be immune to CC. MAYBE a bigger hitbox on dair. I always thought she carried over her weak oos game from brawl and actually feel like that should remain a part of the character, but if anything, I really want an easier time dealing with shield pressure.
I just wondered what the people who frequent the boards here think about ZSS and her potential updates. Personally, I would love better grab frame data (or at least let the hitbox linger for the 98776564 frames she leaves her whip out) and her jab string to be immune to CC. MAYBE a bigger hitbox on dair. I always thought she carried over her weak oos game from brawl and actually feel like that should remain a part of the character, but if anything, I really want an easier time dealing with shield pressure.
Giygacoal
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 1,651
She's good at fighting Zelda and the fatties.
D
Deleted member
Guest
You know how lucario was changed quite a lot and now has a comparable style to street fighter? I was wondering what people thought of Zss having a sort of Soul Calibur type of moveset? (also please note im not saying zss needs any changes, i just though it could be a neat little addition or too on the side).
For starters: There are already two things that make her feel like a soul calibur character. First, there are a number of moves that stun the opponent in sc, much like zss neutral B or her down smash, and secondly, nearly every character in sc has some "stance" or move that has multiple attack options on it, like how zss's down special you can either hold B, or hit A, and they actually do different things.
Some things I think would make her more Soul Calibur esque:
-Give her a secondary grab. In sc usually the characters have a secondary grab thats a little harder to do, sometimes even command grabs, so perhaps they could implement a new grab by pressing A+B+ something else together?
-I would suggest a unblockable fire attack, but I don't think that sort of thing would work in pm.
-Turn one of her taunts into a guard impact (perferbly down taunt). Ironically two of zss taunts look exactly like the two guard impacts ivy has in scv, see first few seconds of video below.
For starters: There are already two things that make her feel like a soul calibur character. First, there are a number of moves that stun the opponent in sc, much like zss neutral B or her down smash, and secondly, nearly every character in sc has some "stance" or move that has multiple attack options on it, like how zss's down special you can either hold B, or hit A, and they actually do different things.
Some things I think would make her more Soul Calibur esque:
-Give her a secondary grab. In sc usually the characters have a secondary grab thats a little harder to do, sometimes even command grabs, so perhaps they could implement a new grab by pressing A+B+ something else together?
-I would suggest a unblockable fire attack, but I don't think that sort of thing would work in pm.
-Turn one of her taunts into a guard impact (perferbly down taunt). Ironically two of zss taunts look exactly like the two guard impacts ivy has in scv, see first few seconds of video below.
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Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
stance based gameplay would be a sham and a bad idea unless they make it so someone like Olimar isn't entirely useless without pikmin first
i always wanted ZSS to have a secondary grab. I've been trying to pitch it to the pmbr for like a year now. Where she can alternate between a regular grab, or her tether grab, as an example.
or an air tether grab. Hnng.
or an air tether grab. Hnng.
I've got you beat in this by at least two years. I've been saying there ought to be a grab option out of Flip Jump basically since development on ZSS for PM started.
Part of the issue is something about command grabs apparently requiring the special to generate a grab box, but if there's not already a place in memory for that grab box in that character's pac file, then you can't give the character a command grab. Supposedly, there's a workaround for that, but since hearing that rumor, I've heard nothing more on the topic.
straydoggywog
Smash Cadet
Would you say ZSS is a good alternative to melee Sheik? I don't want to pick up Sheik in PM for fear of it messing with my melee play, but at the same time I like the methodology which Sheik plays at and am wondering if ZSS is a good alternative.
I'm no expert so take what I say with a grain of salt, for multiple reasons I'd say yes and the same for no. I consider both of them to be heavy aerial fighters relying very much on zoning said aerials to great effect. I'll use Oro as an example, most of the matches I've seen of him are filled to the brim with astoundingly well spaced shorthop aerials comboing into one another. For the no part of the discussion, I feel like most of Zss hitboxes knock enemies back in such a way that make traditional combo's unreliable and give a strange sense of satisfaction when fighting, there's nothing like getting that balrog into missed tech d-air then b-air which sheik doesn't have.
Maybe someone else can give some more insight into this.
Giygacoal
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
- Messages
- 1,651
They feel a little bit similar in flow in my opinion, but they don't really have the same niches (except that they are both good at taking down some characters like Donkey Kong).
Daftatt
"float like a puffball, sting like a knee"
(run)(crouch) + (d-smash)d-smash out of run. just another way to input this that's good to know. Obviously you could still just smash down on the control-stick and hit
Anybody else afraid when people realize how easy it is to powershield ZSS's laser?
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Axrz
Smash Apprentice
Giygacoal
Smash Lord
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- Apr 30, 2011
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Oh you...
That's wavelanding after downB, not what I meant by wavelanding out of downB.
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I've been having this opinion since the Genesis 2 demo of Project M.
cannedbread
Smash Lord
does anyone else wish the divekick's direction was determined by the cstick? I dunno, I find it really awkward to move the directional stick to direct the kick, especially when I'm flip jumping in the opposite direction I want to divekick.
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
i've not had this issue, then again i don't really use it unless im edge cancelling so im super aware of my inputs
Giygacoal
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Apr 30, 2011
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C-stick already does this. I just tested it.
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cannedbread
Smash Lord
oh I see thanks. I just tested it, it seems like the directional stick overrides the cstick.
Fish&Herbs19
Smash Journeyman
I recently started playing Zero Suit Samus and I wanted to know what is the point of her weak footstool spike from her down B? Can it convert or lead into anything or is the divekick attack just overall better?
Teh-Shlurpie
Smash Journeyman
i've had kills from that footstall spike in tournaments before... dont forget its there even if you rarely use it.
Giygacoal
Smash Lord
- Joined
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cannedbread
Smash Lord
I use the flipstool literally all the time. the hitbox detection on it is super wonky and protects me from offstage edgeguards that aren't perfectly spaced or timed correctly, sometimes it won't even spike them and I'll still be flipping my way back to the stage. I've gotten some gimmicky gimps with flipstool from the ledge too. I don't think it could be a thing but flip jump>flipstool back to the ledge is pretty fancy stuff.
Her footstool is super amazing.