Awww, did I win? - Peach MU Discussion

[Kirchu]

Does anyone have any tips for the Pit MU? His arrows are so annoying and I find it so hard to approach.

 

[mudkyp]

Unfortunately turnips are too slow to throw them and approach, but they can be effective depending on the situation. You also can't really float around a lot because he can arrow you out of it or jump and fair you if they're ballsy enough.

My suggestions would be to stay low for most of the match and work on power shielding any of the arrows. The hardest part of this match up is that your float is shut down which in turn ruins a lot of your shield pressure.

I would abuse the instant dash attack with c down a lot. Just stay mobile and pick your spots to punish. It's definitely a rough match-up. I wish more Melee players who also played PM would post in these threads. I'm sure Hanky or Silly Kyle would have a lot more advice to give.

 

[deadjames]

It's so hard to get a turnip on him because of the lag of plucking one so he usually hits you with an arrow.

Just pay attention to his patterns with arrows.

 

[Malithis]

Hey guys, how do you feel against the charizard matchup. I found it is easy if i can get in to combo him but many of my ways of killing a zard is easily prevented by superior range and solid defense. Is this just a turnip game? I can't up air, grab, or side air him so that leaves me with my down smash (up smash just as difficult with his tail). As my friend's zard is getting better it is becoming harder for me to actually use options with inferior range and mobility.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Charizard requires you to play a pretty patient/defensive neutral due to his range, speed, and lingering hitboxes, but like you said once you're in he's combo bait. Dthrow is a true chaingrab on him to fairly high % iirc.

 

[Malithis]

Charizard requires you to play a pretty patient/defensive neutral due to his range, speed, and lingering hitboxes, but like you said once you're in he's combo bait. Dthrow is a true chaingrab on him to fairly high % iirc.

Yeah I play way too aggressively for peach. I will try to be more patient as well as figure out how to get in to grab.

 

[ChiePet]

I dislike heavily how unactive these threads are, Peach deserves better.
Bladewise, SillyKyle, VAnZ, and IIoD need to throw input on here for what match ups they do know, and someone after that needs to get the OP to include more than just question marks

I tried forever to get some decer Stage info for Peach and the topic lastes 4 posts. What i got was:
Good: Dreamland, FoD, Battlefield, sometimes WarioWare
Bad: PS2, Both Yoshi's, Lylat, GHZ

As far as Bad Match ups are concerned, i have: Falco, C.Falcon, Marth, Ivy, Roy, ZSSamus, Zelda (55-45, possibly even depending on skill level), and thats about it.

Anyone who wants to contribute (in bulk from other posts or otherwise) i'd be greatful beyond belief.

EDIT:
I'm an Aggressive player, I'll admit, but I love Peach because she is literally Aggressive-Defense, and as i in-depth learn her everythings, she's teaching me the most important neutral and defensive fundamentals Melee takes.

 

[deadjames]

Bladewise plays Diddy, and I don't think Vanz even plays anymore, just saying.

 

[ChiePet]

Bladewise plays Diddy, and I don't think Vanz even plays anymore, just saying.

I know all of that, Yet that being said they still have a Ton of match up knowledge, i'm sure.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

I don't think Peach is good on Dreamland. She has a hard time killing most of the cast there, and especially with so many good recoveries, I don't find her to potent there. She works better on smaller stages like Yoshi's Island, Dreamland, ect...where here D-Smash edgeguard spikes can come into play & where she can d-smash on top of platforms safely. She also kills A LOT faster on smaller stages. Big stages just give opponents that are faster too much room to breathe & regain a lead.

 

[TimeSmash]

I don't think Peach is good on Dreamland. She has a hard time killing most of the cast there, and especially with so many good recoveries, I don't find her to potent there. She works better on smaller stages like Yoshi's Island, Dreamland, ect...where here D-Smash edgeguard spikes can come into play & where she can d-smash on top of platforms safely. She also kills A LOT faster on smaller stages. Big stages just give opponents that are faster too much room to breathe & regain a lead.

I actually really like Dreamland, but you bring up a lot of valid points. It's a double edged sword because Peach can survive forever there, but it also takes forever to get a KO. Hopefully the reduction in recoveries help her with turnip gimps, which were seen a LOT on Dreamland (and basically everywhere haha)

 

[Angrycuban]

dreamland is character dependent, i wouldnt take a falcon there but i would take marth there

 

[deadjames]

I don't think Peach is good on Dreamland. She has a hard time killing most of the cast there, and especially with so many good recoveries, I don't find her to potent there. She works better on smaller stages like Yoshi's Island, Dreamland, ect...where here D-Smash edgeguard spikes can come into play & where she can d-smash on top of platforms safely. She also kills A LOT faster on smaller stages. Big stages just give opponents that are faster too much room to breathe & regain a lead.

Peach is terrible on small stages, she's light and floaty, she dies way too early on small stages. Dreamland is probably her best stage. She needs to extra survivability from the large blast zones, you don't really have to worry about her low kill power because most of her kills come from gimps anyway.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Peach is terrible on small stages, she's light and floaty, she dies way too early on small stages. Dreamland is probably her best stage. She needs to extra survivability from the large blast zones, you don't really have to worry about her low kill power because most of her kills come from gimps anyway.

It depends on the matchup. I find more success on smaller stages personally. You are not really gonna gimp Rob or Pit on Dreamland consistently.

 

[deadjames]

Pit is very easy to gimp if you hit him out of his glide, and with ROB it's definitely possible if you apply consistent pressure offstage. Either way Peach is still bad on small stages, I'd probably take ROB to a mid-sized stage.

 

[ChiePet]

Tips for beating a Grab-Savvy Marth? He Doesn't FAir enough, uses Counter Mid-Air, Never uses Swords Dance outside of recovery, Doesn't UTilt even 1/3rd as much as he should, but the Grabs..

Also any Tips for Vs. Wario and a Zelda bad with Din's but overly enthusiastic woth Nayrus would be awesome too!

 

[Angrycuban]

Peach is terrible on small stages, she's light and floaty, she dies way too early on small stages. Dreamland is probably her best stage. She needs to extra survivability from the large blast zones, you don't really have to worry about her low kill power because most of her kills come from gimps anyway.

i disagree, on small stages peach controls a lot of space and on big stages she cant chase down faster characters, its match up dependent

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

How does everyone feel about the Marth/ZSS matchup? I performed my worst in years at Smash of Ages local tournament. I got 13th/41 in PM, which is not bad, but I typically get top 8 no matter what game I play. I felt that Marth/ZSS were able to run circles around Peach and there was not much I could do to combo them well. Both players said I needed more turnips so I definitely need to work on that. Any tips?

 

[deadjames]

i disagree, on small stages peach controls a lot of space and on big stages she cant chase down faster characters, its match up dependent

If you're trying to chase people down with Peach you're playing her wrong and most her hard MUs are characters that she can't control space against on small stages (i.e. Marth, Roy, spacies, Sheik, ZSS) she's going to want big stages against those characters because she will live longer and it won't be as easy for them to rush her down.

 

[Angrycuban]

If you're trying to chase people down with Peach you're playing her wrong and most her hard MUs are characters that she can't control space against on small stages (i.e. Marth, Roy, spacies, Sheik, ZSS) she's going to want big stages against those characters because she will live longer and it won't be as easy for them to rush her down.

ill agree to that with marth roy sheik and zss but against spacies id rather not give them room to run away and laser

 

[deadjames]

I'd rather not give them the opportunity to rush you down because here's the thing Fox is the only one that can laser camp safely against Peach. She can punish Falco and Wolf really hard for trying to laser camp, and she is going to want the survivability of large stages, spacies can kill her ridiculously early on small stages, whereas her kills against them are going to primarily be gimps.

 

[Angrycuban]

I'd rather not give them the opportunity to rush you down because here's the thing Fox is the only one that can laser camp safely against Peach. She can punish Falco and Wolf really hard for trying to laser camp, and she is going to want the survivability of large stages, spacies can kill her ridiculously early on small stages, whereas her kills against them are going to primarily be gimps.

yeah good point, id take falco or wolf to dream land, Fox though, no way id go to dream land. I wouldnt wanna take a falcon there either although it wouldnt be my first ban

 

[deadjames]

I like to take spacies to Skyworld, but Dreamland isn't a bad option either.

 

[Dark.Pch]

Tips for beating a Grab-Savvy Marth? He Doesn't FAir enough, uses Counter Mid-Air, Never uses Swords Dance outside of recovery, Doesn't UTilt even 1/3rd as much as he should, but the Grabs..

Also any Tips for Vs. Wario and a Zelda bad with Din's but overly enthusiastic woth Nayrus would be awesome too!

Turnips

Toss them at him and that would force him to block or jump, if he does nether of those, he is most likely getting hit with them. Fair with a turnip in hand, and if he blocks it, run back to a jump cancel throw backwards to bait a grab and hit him. Then follow up with a Z grab to a turnip toss or fair to a run back turnip toss, zdrop to dair pressure, etc.....mix and match the options. He wont be able to just grab you.

For his counters, jump to him and then double jump cancel backwards or glide toss backwards tossing the turnip upward. If he counters you can punish him for it depending on this distance or have the turnip trap him for a follow up or shield pressure since there is a turnip coming down on him.

Never really fought a wario to know what to do

As for the Zelda problem you stated, to the same thing as I told you to bait Marths counter

How does everyone feel about the Marth/ZSS matchup? I performed my worst in years at Smash of Ages local tournament. I got 13th/41 in PM, which is not bad, but I typically get top 8 no matter what game I play. I felt that Marth/ZSS were able to run circles around Peach and there was not much I could do to combo them well. Both players said I needed more turnips so I definitely need to work on that. Any tips?

With marth, You mainly wanna have a turnip in your hand. You really cant approach marth safely unless you have him blocking of jumping into a turnip. Once that is into play, you can then go for things I just told the post I quoted minus the baiting counters. You have to use turnips and you can NOT stay in one place for too long. Always keep moving.

When you get in on marth and have him shielding, this is where you give him hell. Mix up single jabs to other things or follow up on fairs to dash backs to bairs, mid level nairs, dash attacks, etc. Don't go for double jabs on him onless you see him trying to do do something out of shield. This will keep him on lock in shield. Bait moves for punishes and if his shield is small, you can sneak in a dsmash or force a reaction with a small shield and punish.

Dash attack can beat his fairs if you time it right.

Always try to regrab a turnip if you can and then fight with it. Treat a turnip like you have a bomb in hand. Don't just go in all the time and throw it to a typical fair or dair. Fighting with a turnip is really good pressure if you have them on block. Its also good when spacing your air moves cause they can't tell when you will throw it. They have to play a guessing game while you really don't have too. You know when you gonna toss it, they don't. This messes with marths air freedom, and swinging at the wrong time can lead to a turnip snipe.

Keep him in the air as much as you can when you get the chance. Marth has a horrible blind spot under him and Peach can punish that really well.



Don't really fight ZSS to know state what you should be doing against her.

 

[Alakaslam]

General wolf strat? I am terrible beyond what you know but still; Ike advice has worked in the past

(Tyty)

 

[InfinityCollision]

He's a spacie, so he dies really easy once you get him offstage. He's arguably the sturdiest of the three, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

He's also a spacie, so he's going to **** you up onstage given the slightest chance.

Wolf's shine is CCable at low %s, but a good Wolf will doubleshine or mixup with grabs as needed so watch out. His laser is mostly useful for controlling the space immediately in front of him, but your aerial mobility and AGT help you deal with that. He can act out of it faster than you might think - IASA frames are really late, but he can airdodge and thus waveland as soon as the laser comes out. Treat it like it's got about a quarter second of endlag or less depending on how high/low he positions it and you'll be fine. DI up and away is generally the way to go for mitigating combos - he still combos like a mofo, but you'll at least make him work for it that way and maybe get him to whiff a side-b. Dthrow/bthrow is a DI trap. Respect his air game, uair and fair have great coverage and can potentially kill you.

Overall it's more or less the same old spacie matchup, except he's really aggro and sacrifices camping potential for control over the near space. Take him to the largest stage you can, push him offstage and get a gimp asap. I'm fairly sure it's a losing matchup for Peach though, his mobility and aggression can make things very difficult for her.

 

[Alakaslam]

He's a spacie, so he dies really easy once you get him offstage. He's arguably the sturdiest of the three, but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

He's also a spacie, so he's going to **** you up onstage given the slightest chance.

Wolf's shine is CCable at low %s, but a good Wolf will doubleshine or mixup with grabs as needed so watch out. His laser is mostly useful for controlling the space immediately in front of him, but your aerial mobility and AGT help you deal with that. He can act out of it faster than you might think - IASA frames are really late, but he can airdodge and thus waveland as soon as the laser comes out. Treat it like it's got about a quarter second of endlag or less depending on how high/low he positions it and you'll be fine. DI up and away is generally the way to go for mitigating combos - he still combos like a mofo, but you'll at least make him work for it that way and maybe get him to whiff a side-b. Dthrow/bthrow is a DI trap. Respect his air game, uair and fair have great coverage and can potentially kill you.

Overall it's more or less the same old spacie matchup, except he's really aggro and sacrifices camping potential for control over the near space. Take him to the largest stage you can, push him offstage and get a gimp asap. I'm fairly sure it's a losing matchup for Peach though, his mobility and aggression can make things very difficult for her.

IOW "do as you were doing slam; practice dem techs

Gracias nonetheless

 

[rje457]

Can you chain grab Wolf pretty well with uthrow? Not really experienced with the MU to know how well a good Wolf player can D.I. out of it or make it hard.

 

[Angrycuban]

Can you chain grab Wolf pretty well with uthrow? Not really experienced with the MU to know how well a good Wolf player can D.I. out of it or make it hard.

its guarenteed until like 35ish % i believe

 

[InfinityCollision]

That sounds about right. Wolf falls similarly to Falco over low distances and is the heaviest of the three, so overall he's the least susceptible to uthrow chaingrabs.

Sorry I can't be of more help in this specific matchup, much of my experience in it is from Wolf's perspective rather than Peach's.

 

[Alakaslam]

That sounds about right. Wolf falls similarly to Falco over low distances and is the heaviest of the three, so overall he's the least susceptible to uthrow chaingrabs.

Sorry I can't be of more help in this specific matchup, much of my experience in it is from Wolf's perspective rather than Peach's.

Ah! Thou'rt not negative, simply victorious!

Bro fist but hilariously I find what I am looking for in wolf threads; I must do as they warn of

And now in that wrong thread I posted in XD

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

Can anyone help explain the Wario/Diddy/CF matchup? I know CF I can look on Melee thread, but Wario/Diddy I definitely need some help with.

 

[Angrycuban]

Can anyone help explain the Wario/Diddy/CF matchup? I know CF I can look on Melee thread, but Wario/Diddy I definitely need some help with.

wario is even or maybe peach has a sllight advantage from my experience, one of the PR players in my region plays wario and i can usually take him out with peach. Basically shield his side B and wave dash out of shield to punish, knowing how to do that is necessary. Other than that throw LOTS of turnips and gimp him because his recovery isnt that great, watch out from his grab mix up, although getting grabbed or getting hit by the bite is not that huge of a deal cause you can DI away and mash Nair and he cant really punish you super hard. Up air kills you pretty early so just dont put yourself above him if possible, in fact play on the ground a lot. Wario players also like to side B at you then if you shield they will jump over you to avoid a punish. To counter this i like to throw a turnip directly above me from time to time. This functions kinda like doom missiles in Marvel 3 where it will fall down and protect you if you happen to get hit and it also controls the area above you. Diddy is a really hard match up, I almost always lose to the diddy players in my area so i cant really tell you much. Honestly its just insanely hard. You have to play super defensively and only go in when there are no bananas on the field. Also if you pick up a banana its usually best to just throw it off the stage instead of using it against him. Falcon is also hard but the best thing you can for that is just work on your punish game. Falcon is my best match up in the game hands down and i got like that by basically just practicing combos on a CPU falcon for a long time. If you get to the point where you can 0-death him off every grab or dash attack you can win (its not as hard to do as it sounds). My BnB falcon combo is dash attack to tech dash attack until hes at like 33+% then dash attack grab up throw up air up air dash attack up air nair or Fair into edge guard. Also learning how to edge guard falcon consistently is important, he should never make it back to the stage, learn the range where you can just hold the edge and roll up to kill him. Also grabbing the ledge then standing up and down smashing is a good way to get him back off stage when hes at high %. Lastly dashing off the stage and floating in front of the ledge and using a Nair is a really good way to gimp falcon cause falcon will almost always double jump out of hitstun straight to the ledge. So if you back throw him or dash attack him off the stage at a medium & just run off and nair then side B back to the ledge and rolling up is a really good way to get a quick kill

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

wario is even or maybe peach has a sllight advantage from my experience, one of the PR players in my region plays wario and i can usually take him out with peach. Basically shield his side B and wave dash out of shield to punish, knowing how to do that is necessary. Other than that throw LOTS of turnips and gimp him because his recovery isnt that great, watch out from his grab mix up, although getting grabbed or getting hit by the bite is not that huge of a deal cause you can DI away and mash Nair and he cant really punish you super hard. Up air kills you pretty early so just dont put yourself above him if possible, in fact play on the ground a lot. Wario players also like to side B at you then if you shield they will jump over you to avoid a punish. To counter this i like to throw a turnip directly above me from time to time. This functions kinda like doom missiles in Marvel 3 where it will fall down and protect you if you happen to get hit and it also controls the area above you. Diddy is a really hard match up, I almost always lose to the diddy players in my area so i cant really tell you much. Honestly its just insanely hard. You have to play super defensively and only go in when there are no bananas on the field. Also if you pick up a banana its usually best to just throw it off the stage instead of using it against him. Falcon is also hard but the best thing you can for that is just work on your punish game. Falcon is my best match up in the game hands down and i got like that by basically just practicing combos on a CPU falcon for a long time. If you get to the point where you can 0-death him off every grab or dash attack you can win (its not as hard to do as it sounds). My BnB falcon combo is dash attack to tech dash attack until hes at like 33+% then dash attack grab up throw up air up air dash attack up air nair or Fair into edge guard. Also learning how to edge guard falcon consistently is important, he should never make it back to the stage, learn the range where you can just hold the edge and roll up to kill him. Also grabbing the ledge then standing up and down smashing is a good way to get him back off stage when hes at high %. Lastly dashing off the stage and floating in front of the ledge and using a Nair is a really good way to gimp falcon cause falcon will almost always double jump out of hitstun straight to the ledge. So if you back throw him or dash attack him off the stage at a medium & just run off and nair then side B back to the ledge and rolling up is a really good way to get a quick kill

Thank you for the insight, I greatly appreciate it. I will try and practice those 0-death combos. Do you have any others that work consistently vs most of the cast? Also, when pulling turnips, how do you space them? Do you just continuously throw-toss or run around and throw them or what?

 

[Angrycuban]

Thank you for the insight, I greatly appreciate it. I will try and practice those 0-death combos. Do you have any others that work consistently vs most of the cast? Also, when pulling turnips, how do you space them? Do you just continuously throw-toss or run around and throw them or what?

ehhh you can only 0-death fox falco wolf and falon reliably, which kinda sucks, but for all 4 of those characters its basically just a combination of up throw up air and dash attacks. As for the turnips it depends what your trying to do, if you approaching with it i like to glide toss forward, run up and FC nair their shield, or short hop/ full hop toss and float forward with a Fair. If your trying to hold a lead and play defensively, you usually wanna just throw the turinp from the ground when the enemy is also on the ground, preferably right as they land from the air, then mix that up with a few short hop throw. Another thing i forgot to say about the wario match up is, something that i like to do against wario is to float at like a full hop height or so to bait him into using his side B, then i Fade back with my float and forward air (I use the "claw" to do this). If timed right you can reliable slap him out of his side B which will basically shut down his approach and main kill option.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

ehhh you can only 0-death fox falco wolf and falon reliably, which kinda sucks, but for all 4 of those characters its basically just a combination of up throw up air and dash attacks. As for the turnips it depends what your trying to do, if you approaching with it i like to glide toss forward, run up and FC nair their shield, or short hop/ full hop toss and float forward with a Fair. If your trying to hold a lead and play defensively, you usually wanna just throw the turinp from the ground when the enemy is also on the ground, preferably right as they land from the air, then mix that up with a few short hop throw. Another thing i forgot to say about the wario match up is, something that i like to do against wario is to float at like a full hop height or so to bait him into using his side B, then i Fade back with my float and forward air (I use the "claw" to do this). If timed right you can reliable slap him out of his side B which will basically shut down his approach and main kill option.

Is glidetossing reliable in this game? It seems like when I glide-toss with Peach, the distance is extremely less than in Brawl. Is that really as far as she goes, or am I just doing it wrong in PM?

 

[Angrycuban]

Is glidetossing reliable in this game? It seems like when I glide-toss with Peach, the distance is extremely less than in Brawl. Is that really as far as she goes, or am I just doing it wrong in PM?

glide tossing on the ground is pretty good, you get decent distance if you maximize it (throw the turnip at the very end of your roll) AGT with peach is only really good going up or down, forward and back barley get any movement at all. Think of it like peaches wave dash, its a short distance but its still movement, all you need is to be 1 pixel out of range to avoid an attack. It requires better spacing to use peaches glide toss than other characters *ahem diddy kong*, but its still usable. Any slight movement can be just enough spacing to avoid an attack or to land your own attack. Honestly using peach in this game requires you to have better spacing than most any other character in the game *ahem diddy again*, so yeah its not easy but playing peach in PM generally isn't easy lol.

 

[Gadiel_VaStar]

glide tossing on the ground is pretty good, you get decent distance if you maximize it (throw the turnip at the very end of your roll) AGT with peach is only really good going up or down, forward and back barley get any movement at all. Think of it like peaches wave dash, its a short distance but its still movement, all you need is to be 1 pixel out of range to avoid an attack. It requires better spacing to use peaches glide toss than other characters *ahem diddy kong*, but its still usable. Any slight movement can be just enough spacing to avoid an attack or to land your own attack. Honestly using peach in this game requires you to have better spacing than most any other character in the game *ahem diddy again*, so yeah its not easy but playing peach in PM generally isn't easy lol.

Welp I guess I have talent for Peach as she was the only character that felt natural & I did well with. Now that I'm taking the game more seriously, I'm sure I will get a lot better. Learning other characters is hard for me, lol.

 

[Angrycuban]

Welp I guess I have talent for Peach as she was the only character that felt natural & I did well with. Now that I'm taking the game more seriously, I'm sure I will get a lot better. Learning other characters is hard for me, lol.

glad to hear it, i was the same way. Shes one of the most unique characters in smash IMO, Peach for life lol

 

[Dark.Pch]

She takes time. Most of the characters in the game are easy for people to pick up and just use gimmicks to win. Or have easy auto pilot combos. Peach is nothing like that at all. Most people don't even have to know the match up vs you to win cause of what I stated above.

One important you must learn is her Neutral game. The Neutral Game is what fighting game players call the times when neither player is hitting the other very much and neither player has gotten a combo recently or a Knockdown to apply pressure from. It primarily involves fighting for positioning and attempting to get that first hit to gain an upper hand.

A solid neutral game makes it hard for people to just jump in on you. You are seriously making them work their butt off to get a hit. This is something you have to know how to do against every character you face. Or else, even if you are the smarter opponent, people will just jump in on you for free just throwing out moves and hoping for the best.

I don't really have any videos of myself online. My Peach is mostly under the radar unless I'm at D1's house being stream. But I do play the game when I get the chance and I do know a lot of things. So I can be of some help for some here.