Awww, did I win? - Peach MU Discussion

JakieWinks

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Is there any chance of the original thread being updated? As a melee player who loves peach, playing pm peach is really natural to me but the only thing is that I don't know how to work any of the matchups. I mostly have a lot of trouble with floaties; mewtwo, g&w, samus, luigi, kirby, wario (if he's even considered a floaty), ect. If there are some simple strategies that work well on most floaties OR a solid secondary that messes up most floaties, I would appreciate it.

https://youtu.be/sT-3kXii8t4 Here's a set of me playing against a really good samus player in my region. I had no idea what to do and got completely destroyed. Reading through this thread has made me learn that I should challenge (nair/fair/turnip) his projectiles instead of shielding them or trying to dodge them, and I also really need to work on edge guarding. If you have any other tips for me besides those I'd love to hear them.
 

dg-pilz-e

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Is there any chance of the original thread being updated? As a melee player who loves peach, playing pm peach is really natural to me but the only thing is that I don't know how to work any of the matchups. I mostly have a lot of trouble with floaties; mewtwo, g&w, samus, luigi, kirby, wario (if he's even considered a floaty), ect. If there are some simple strategies that work well on most floaties OR a solid secondary that messes up most floaties, I would appreciate it.

https://youtu.be/sT-3kXii8t4 Here's a set of me playing against a really good samus player in my region. I had no idea what to do and got completely destroyed. Reading through this thread has made me learn that I should challenge (nair/fair/turnip) his projectiles instead of shielding them or trying to dodge them, and I also really need to work on edge guarding. If you have any other tips for me besides those I'd love to hear them.

Alright heres my constructive feedback.

-Yea shielding those projectiles isn't bad in a pinch but don't do it all the time because he managed to punish you for it with a grab afterwards, If you can avoid it and do something to knock him off the stage then your golden. I know it's easier said then done, When i'm faced with pressure from Samus i usually will try to hit with a turnip then go in cause the the hit stun doesn't let her do anything. and you can get right close. The goal isn't to combo samus, it's to knock her off the stage and not let her back on. When she uses her morph bomb recovery I try to float out and hit her with bair or nair but it is risky cause if you miss you just lost stage control and getting back on is very hard against a good samus.

-Watching the first game you seem to approach with nair FC Dsmash a lot. Approaching in the air isn't a very advantageous option against Samus or any character really, Good mix up but it's easy to punish if done too often If you wanna do that float right on the ground and try. B-air is the projectile destroyer, Peaches bottom goes through anything (Not 100% positive against full charge shot though)

-Throughout the matches I noticed the main reason you were losing stocks to this Samus is because he controlled the middle of the stage far better, Your edge guard and ledge guards weren't very effective and it caused him to get the upper hand very quickly when you flubbed and he got back on stage. Turnips are great for the defensive game and holding the middle of the stage. but against samus if it tougher because she has a plethora of projectiles. So you have two options, Either play super defensive or play super offensive and get in her face. On Yoshi's you should have gone with the offensive strat since it's a smaller stage you could reach her quicker and she couldn't run away. Battlefield would have been to your discretion. I find myself to be a more defensive player with Peach, So games like this can take awhile.
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Not super vital but something I find that helps in this matchup is if you can catch your turnip do it, It's quicker then pulling one out again.

-Grounded turnips are better in general but aerial thrown turnips are good mix ups for changing trajectory.

For stage picks against Samus i try to stay away from platformed stages since her projectile game gets really good with missles and such.

Hope that helps!
 

JakieWinks

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Thank you so much for the advice! I have a few follow up questions/responses though.
-The goal isn't to combo samus, it's to knock her off the stage and not let her back on. When she uses her morph bomb recovery I try to float out and hit her with bair or nair but it is risky cause if you miss you just lost stage control and getting back on is very hard against a good samus.
If you watch at around 3:03 that's exactly what I tried to do, but I just got punished by it. You can see my frustration from this, and when ridiculous recoveries like that keep happening to me I usually just..give up and resort to throwing turnips because I don't wanna deal with it. It's ridiculous, I know. But I'm starting to think that the level of anger it brings me is far worse than letting them get back onstage, even Armada has told me in pm he just lets people get back on because it isn't worth it.

-Watching the first game you seem to approach with nair FC Dsmash a lot. Approaching in the air isn't a very advantageous option against Samus or any character really, Good mix up but it's easy to punish if done too often If you wanna do that float right on the ground and try.

-Throughout the matches I noticed the main reason you were losing stocks to this Samus is because he controlled the middle of the stage far better, Your edge guard and ledge guards weren't very effective and it caused him to get the upper hand very quickly when you flubbed and he got back on stage. Turnips are great for the defensive game and holding the middle of the stage. but against samus if it tougher because she has a plethora of projectiles. So you have two options, Either play super defensive or play super offensive and get in her face.
I was approaching with nair dsmash a lot because I'm typically not used to approaching. THIS is why I get messed up by floaties, because I just suck at approaching and playing patiently. I play a well rounded peach that isn't defensive or offensive, so when I'm forced to be the one that approaches or forced to play defensive, I kinda get boned. Could you give me some other strategies/ways to approach with her?
Also, why is approaching in the air not the advantageous option? I find that approaching with a turnip to fair/nair/dsmash/grab works decently (to say the least). How can peach even approach on the ground? The only way I can think of is dash attack.

I asked that samus for some advice to beat him and what I'm doing wrong and he said "if you want to beat me, try to get me mad" and left....he's a weird kid. I was pretty salty about that.

I reeeeally appreciate the advice, I will definitely take this all into consideration and adjust my play. Peach players stick together! :)
 

dg-pilz-e

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Thank you so much for the advice! I have a few follow up questions/responses though.

If you watch at around 3:03 that's exactly what I tried to do, but I just got punished by it. You can see my frustration from this, and when ridiculous recoveries like that keep happening to me I usually just..give up and resort to throwing turnips because I don't wanna deal with it. It's ridiculous, I know. But I'm starting to think that the level of anger it brings me is far worse than letting them get back onstage, even Armada has told me in pm he just lets people get back on because it isn't worth it.


I was approaching with nair dsmash a lot because I'm typically not used to approaching. THIS is why I get messed up by floaties, because I just suck at approaching and playing patiently. I play a well rounded peach that isn't defensive or offensive, so when I'm forced to be the one that approaches or forced to play defensive, I kinda get boned. Could you give me some other strategies/ways to approach with her?
Also, why is approaching in the air not the advantageous option? I find that approaching with a turnip to fair/nair/dsmash/grab works decently (to say the least). How can peach even approach on the ground? The only way I can think of is dash attack.



I asked that samus for some advice to beat him and what I'm doing wrong and he said "if you want to beat me, try to get me mad" and left....he's a weird kid. I was pretty salty about that.

I reeeeally appreciate the advice, I will definitely take this all into consideration and adjust my play. Peach players stick together! :)

Ah yea, I see, I can't say Samus players do that to me and stall with morph ball from that high up most will just drop down a bi use their morph ball then grapple. and try to grapple the ledge., Maybe in that situation have a turnip in hand, and float in in front of the stage (between him and the stage,) from here you cover a lot of options, in float you and use an aerial, and if you fell like he's out of range, drop float and throw the turnip. It's all about option coverage at that point. But I won't lie I don't deal with Samus that do that so i dunno.

Sadly in this match up patience is a virtue :/

This match-up is tricky too because most of the time I think you'd be forced to approach. Apporaching with B-air is usually good because it goes through missiles, comes out quick and stays out for a bit so your covered. You gotta be semi close for this though. If you get the time to pick up a turnip don't throw right away just keep it with you, sometimes i find that players get scared when you have a turnip so they try to back off leading to you being able to move forword a bit, They'll figure it out sooner or later though so don't hold onto it for an hour lol. Throwing a turnip in front of you and moving forward isn't bad either, well placed turnip throws cause them to give up stage control and lose their position. I don't mind doing this but sometimes i just won't approach them and i'll just keep grabbing turnips. if you hit with turnip you can try for regrab (i do this A LOT, but it's preference.) If you do hit the Samus with an aerial out of float pull a turnip rather then down smash cause 80% of the time it won't hit (at least in my experience with Samus) You do want to stay close to her and not allow Samus to get fortified with missiles. A lot of approaching isn't just throwing out a move or an active hitbox to move forward, it's just your movement in general. You flubbed some wave lands and wash dashes and he was able to move in more into stuff. Try getting that stuff down pat so you can do it while listening to music while singing a song. Thats how distracted you will likely be in a tournament so practicing like that will show how you play in tourney realistically. Also watch him and wait for him to flub something and then you can make your great approach.

When you approach in the air it's a commitment, You can try and fade back but your momentum still pushes you forward. right into the enemy territory. Even in float its dangerous because if you wanna turn back you decelerate and then accelerate back to your max speed in float going the other way which take some time. Samus's missiles could still hit you in float if your not high enough, and a full charge shot is harder to avoid to. On the ground you have dash dance, pulling a turnip, Shield, (and all the options OoS) jumping, Spot dodge, Wave dash etc as options to move around, You lose so many options when you decide to take to the air. I'm no saying don't do it, cause I still do it too every now and then, but just know it's a ballsy approach and most of the time unless you catch them off guard you will probably lose the exchange.

Also when you float it you make it so you float backwards off stage so you can grab the ledge quick and refresh the jumps and float you have. good when the opponent is far away and your going to an edge guard. not suuppperr game changing in this matchup but a tech you can use if you need it.

I hope this helps. I'm not the most experienced in this match-up but I do play a few Samus's here. I play Kirby too and his entire game plan is to move around and put the enemy into bad positions to gimp so that just helps me out a bit haha.
 

Manaconda

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OP was last seen almost two months ago. I doubt he's going to update the original post.

If you want to talk about a specific MU then I'm sure people will post about how to deal with it. If you want MU numbers, I doubt any accurate agreement could be reached, especially this early in the new update.

Edit: These boards are deader than the Melee Peach Boards, lmao.
 
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JakieWinks

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Yeah, I realized the pm peach boards are really dead lmao. I wasn't really thinking MU numbers, just a general idea of who holds the advantage or more importantly what to do in each matchup.

However I've pretty much learned that to whichever characters aren't in melee that you can look up the MU, you just use turnips against. Turnips are my counter to pm jank. :p
 

dg-pilz-e

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How do you guys Deal with Meta Knight? His range on his sword i'm having problems with, turnips can only do so much.
 

MTL Kyle

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It's hard to keep this board alive when the only reason to play Peach in this game is because you play Peach in Melee.

She is just not supposed to be viable in PM lol
 

JakieWinks

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How do you guys Deal with Meta Knight? His range on his sword i'm having problems with, turnips can only do so much.
A bit late here, but I pretty much verse him like he's a marth with multiple jumps. Watch out for fsmashes and bairs. Careful on his shield as nair oos is really good. Turnips are one of the few ways to actually get in. Dsmashes seem to do me a lot of work too (though I'm not sure if that's just my skillful use of it).

Oh yeah, another thing that I learned was great against meta knight is gimping him with turnips or possibly bair/nair. If you hit him at all during his side b or neutral b, he loses him jumps. If he decides to recover with anything besides up b (or maybe even with up b, my MK knowledge isn't very exact lmao) you can throw a turnip at him and it will burn his jumps. Take advantage of this.

That's all I can tell you unfortunately, I've only played a couple good meta knights. Just get into the mindset of playing against a marth, so basically go crazy with turnips and play careful because you can get punished.
 
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What do you guys do against squirtle? I have a hard time getting in because his movement is incredible and way faster than Peach's.
The first step is understanding that "getting in" is not the priority you think it is.

Squirtle is fast but you can quickly cover yourself in hitboxes, so that's your ticket to shutting down anything he tries to do in close quarters. If he gives you too much space then you can go for the turnip pull, but understand that he can turn around and put a hitbox in your face at a moment's notice. A good Squirtle is going to space you out and try to get you to commit to unsafe actions. Don't give in to the temptation of pressing buttons when you shouldn't.

Read this to get an idea of how the matchup looks from their perspective.

Does anyone have Rob MU knowledge? I literally have no strong clue what to do in the MU.
Really depends on the ROB. Top level play is pretty hard for Peach to deal with, but a lot of ROB players do bad things like boost fair high on shield that you can pick out and punish. Either character offstage should theoretically be a stock, but Peach has to work hard for her edgeguards here (lots of precise option coverage with turnips and aerials etc). You can try to abuse the top if you get control of it, but throwing it upwards to put it out of his reach isn't a bad idea either and is usually my preferred option for characters with poor glide tosses. Do you have any footage?
 
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JakieWinks

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The first step is understanding that "getting in" is not the priority you think it is.

Squirtle is fast but you can quickly cover yourself in hitboxes, so that's your ticket to shutting down anything he tries to do in close quarters. If he gives you too much space then you can go for the turnip pull, but understand that he can turn around and put a hitbox in your face at a moment's notice. A good Squirtle is going to space you out and try to get you to commit to unsafe actions. Don't give in to the temptation of pressing buttons when you shouldn't.

Read this to get an idea of how the matchup looks from their perspective.
Ahh, so it seems that being in the air floating is really a bad spot for peach to be in in this MU. I mean, the main way I "get in" is with turnip->float cancel fair so that explains why I had such a tough time. If I ever have to face this squirtle again (his tag is dirtboy, I'm pretty sure he's like in the top 3 squirtles in pm) I'll be sure to stay grounded, keep my space, and avoid bubbles. Dirtboy bubbles A LOT, I'm not sure whether that's a normal squirtle thing but damn was it annoying. Thank you for the advice!
 
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Gadiel_VaStar

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The first step is understanding that "getting in" is not the priority you think it is.

Squirtle is fast but you can quickly cover yourself in hitboxes, so that's your ticket to shutting down anything he tries to do in close quarters. If he gives you too much space then you can go for the turnip pull, but understand that he can turn around and put a hitbox in your face at a moment's notice. A good Squirtle is going to space you out and try to get you to commit to unsafe actions. Don't give in to the temptation of pressing buttons when you shouldn't.

Read this to get an idea of how the matchup looks from their perspective.


Really depends on the ROB. Top level play is pretty hard for Peach to deal with, but a lot of ROB players do bad things like boost fair high on shield that you can pick out and punish. Either character offstage should theoretically be a stock, but Peach has to work hard for her edgeguards here (lots of precise option coverage with turnips and aerials etc). You can try to abuse the top if you get control of it, but throwing it upwards to put it out of his reach isn't a bad idea either and is usually my preferred option for characters with poor glide tosses. Do you have any footage?
No no footage atm I might be able to find some recent ones
 

Kneato

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Matchup from:peach:'s Perspective (+3 has Peach winning)

+3::dedede::popo::yoshi2:
+2:
:sonic::bowser2::dk2::squirtle::ness2::pikachu2::charizard::snake:
+1::wario:
0::gw::metaknight::olimar::zelda::luigi2::falco::sheik::jigglypuff::ivysaur::mario2:
-1::kirby2::ganondorf::zerosuitsamus::mewtwopm::fox::marth::falcon:
-2::rob::link2::samus2:
-3::toonlink::lucas:

?::wolf::ike::lucario::pit::roypm:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?
 

Dad?!?

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I'd say Peach has a positive matchup against Ganon. Turnips are really good, and she's pretty good at comboing and edgeguarding him. It's got to be at least +1.
 

NOTMalachi

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Where did this list come from? Is it that community mu chart?

Anyway I disagree with most of these placing and would be interested in the logic behind them.
 

NOTMalachi

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Yeah I made one a while back. Its on my computer...somewhere. I'll look for it when I get home.

Edit: Found it


Sidenote: Does anyone actually think the lucas MU is 7-3?
 
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KACHOW!!!

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I haven't seen much discussion of snake's peach match up, and being a crappy low level snake, I am now going to try to illucidate the snake/peach matchup with my incredibly dumb brain that lacks proper knowledge of the match up. One of my main training partners who doesn't compete in tourneys, nor does he know much special stuff about peach causes problems for me in general when I'm snake. But sometimes snake feels like he has a good advantage against Peach. I want to call it 60-40 in snake's favor. That's because snake relies on long stringy combos, which peach is too light for him to get the milage out of his combos that he gets on other characters of mid to high weight. When I'm off the stage and peach is edge guarding me it can be a really bad situation for snake because my cypher doesn't have enough priority to get through peach's down smash. So I basically have to use c4 to blow myself up, but even then, if I don't somehow get above peach and safely land on the stage (which is a big if) I'm somewhat boned. Thats because yeah, I can blow myself up a million times, but peach can much more easily spam downsmash forever.

That being said, Yes, Peach is hard to combo, yes peach can float over my mines (and if the player is keeping track of what I'm doing they won't just float into, say, a downsmash proximity mine set on one of the fall-through platforms on battlefield), but in essence, Peach has a 70% chance of killing me outright if I've lost nuetral and I'm trying to get back to the stage. When she's not ready to spam downsmash, all she has to do to catch my high recovery is short-hop fair to slap me back into the same situation I was just in. If the peach is actually worth their salt they'll just pull a stitch and z-drop it onto me on the way up or something and I'm dead. BUT when snake has peach stuck and he's won the neutral and pushed her basically anywhere near the top of any stage (even dreamland to some extent) then she's either dead or about to die. Like yeah, she's hard to combo in the air, but if snake is smart about it with his downthrow psuedo techchase peach can easily be destroyed. A good example of snake being bad for peach at even mid percent is that according to Cicyphis's downthrow tech-chase guide on snake, peach dies to up-throw C4 (when she's been stuck) at roughly 89% when DI'd properly.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xOka4oxmmMRbKhfGJ9c/edit?pli=1#gid=2084692387

Point being, I'm not a great or super knowledgable snake player, but I've had peach problems, and peaches I've played have had snake problems, but it seems that in a game that's primarily about winning neutral then converting that into a kill, it seems like the volley of projectiles snake can constantly unleash to keep peach at a distance is quiet effective. If you're playing peach, grab snake, that should ruin his day (again, I'm not super-knowledgable, so if any other snake or peach players disagree with anything i've said here, please mention my name and quote me where I'm wrong, because I'd be interested to know what you have to say).
 

Dad?!?

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I haven't seen much discussion of snake's peach match up, and being a crappy low level snake, I am now going to try to illucidate the snake/peach matchup with my incredibly dumb brain that lacks proper knowledge of the match up. One of my main training partners who doesn't compete in tourneys, nor does he know much special stuff about peach causes problems for me in general when I'm snake. But sometimes snake feels like he has a good advantage against Peach. I want to call it 60-40 in snake's favor. That's because snake relies on long stringy combos, which peach is too light for him to get the milage out of his combos that he gets on other characters of mid to high weight. When I'm off the stage and peach is edge guarding me it can be a really bad situation for snake because my cypher doesn't have enough priority to get through peach's down smash. So I basically have to use c4 to blow myself up, but even then, if I don't somehow get above peach and safely land on the stage (which is a big if) I'm somewhat boned. Thats because yeah, I can blow myself up a million times, but peach can much more easily spam downsmash forever.

That being said, Yes, Peach is hard to combo, yes peach can float over my mines (and if the player is keeping track of what I'm doing they won't just float into, say, a downsmash proximity mine set on one of the fall-through platforms on battlefield), but in essence, Peach has a 70% chance of killing me outright if I've lost nuetral and I'm trying to get back to the stage. When she's not ready to spam downsmash, all she has to do to catch my high recovery is short-hop fair to slap me back into the same situation I was just in. If the peach is actually worth their salt they'll just pull a stitch and z-drop it onto me on the way up or something and I'm dead. BUT when snake has peach stuck and he's won the neutral and pushed her basically anywhere near the top of any stage (even dreamland to some extent) then she's either dead or about to die. Like yeah, she's hard to combo in the air, but if snake is smart about it with his downthrow psuedo techchase peach can easily be destroyed. A good example of snake being bad for peach at even mid percent is that according to Cicyphis's downthrow tech-chase guide on snake, peach dies to up-throw C4 (when she's been stuck) at roughly 89% when DI'd properly.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...xOka4oxmmMRbKhfGJ9c/edit?pli=1#gid=2084692387

Point being, I'm not a great or super knowledgable snake player, but I've had peach problems, and peaches I've played have had snake problems, but it seems that in a game that's primarily about winning neutral then converting that into a kill, it seems like the volley of projectiles snake can constantly unleash to keep peach at a distance is quiet effective. If you're playing peach, grab snake, that should ruin his day (again, I'm not super-knowledgable, so if any other snake or peach players disagree with anything i've said here, please mention my name and quote me where I'm wrong, because I'd be interested to know what you have to say).
I don't think dsmash on the ledge works if you let go of the cypher at the lowest point you can grab the ledge. Also, you can generally interfere with that plan with grenades and tech the dsmash if you get hit.
 

KACHOW!!!

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D Dad?!? So are you saying snake should up b outside of the range of peach's downsmash and then pull a grenade?
"Also, you can generally interfere with that plan with grenades and tech the dsmash if you get hit."
So how does that work/ what am I supposed to do as snake?
 

Dad?!?

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Peach generally hits you at a ~45 degree angle, so when you're off stage you have time to pull grenades as you fall (see 1:40 in the first prof/armada video).
 
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Here's a small tip for Peach player's going up against Snake:

Use neutral B when the Snake waits for a grenade to explode in shield. If you're close enough to trigger the counter, it's a guaranteed shield break. You shouldn't use this option terribly often, though, as Snake can get around this by rolling behind you.
 
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Kneato

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Matchup from:peach:'s Perspective (+3 has Peach winning)

+3::dedede::popo::yoshi2:
+2:
:sonic::bowser2::dk2::squirtle::ness2::pikachu2::charizard::snake:
+1::wario:
0::gw::metaknight::olimar::zelda::luigi2::falco::sheik::jigglypuff::ivysaur::mario2:
-1::kirby2::ganondorf::zerosuitsamus::mewtwopm::fox::marth::falcon:
-2::rob::link2::samus2:
-3::toonlink::lucas:

?::wolf::ike::lucario::pit::roypm:

What do you guys think? Anything wildly inaccurate? What about the unknown matchups?
It's from the (outdated) community matchup chart. I'm going from thread to thread getting info to try to update it.

I'll take the chart you made as feedback
 
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How does peach deal with link?

Also I keep hearing that peach does well against pika, can someone explain why?
 
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fsmile

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Trying to revive this thread.
In response to the outdated match-up thread posted by Kneato: can someone explain to me why this chart and others in this thread consider the Charizard match-up in Peach's favor?

Going through his moves:
-His jab has good range, is decently fast and with its big, sweeping arc in front of him beats most, if not all of your aerial approaches options.
-Down- and forward-tilt give him really good grounded, defensive options, which, owing to their range, shut down Peach's grounded approaches.
-His multiple jumps and glide allow him to challenge her off-stage where she would normally be safe versus other characters. His down-, forward- and neutral-air have good range and give him good killing tools off-stage.
-Furthermore, up-tilt, up-air and up-smash allow him to juggle, platform-camp and vertically kill floatier characters with relative ease.
-To make things worse, his grab out-ranges Peach's. He has a decent down-throw tech-chase game, and up-throw (on small stages) can kill as early as 80% and can't be teched.
-Lastly, his good crouch-cancel can put Peach in a really bad spot, if she goes for dash-attacks or instant-float cancelled aerials at lower percents.

Of course, Peach isn't completely without options here either:
-Her turnips seem to be really important in this match-up for just about everything, from spacing, to approaching, to edge-guarding.
-Her edge-guards can be super powerful, allowing you to kill him relatively early, provided she manages to limit (say with a turnip) or read her opponent's recovery. This isn't all that easy though, because of his multiple jumps, glide, fire-glide and super-armor on his up-b. However, where normally her neutral-air and forward-air would work well against other characters off-stage, Charizard's aerials simply out-range Peach's, making off-stage plays difficult and dangerous.
-Lastly, Charizard's floatiness and multiple-jumps make him hard to combo and kill, often resulting in him living past 150%.

EDIT:
Overall, it feels like a worse Marth match-up: better range, better aerials (versus Peach specifically) and better off-stage game. I would put this match-up to a '-2' instead of a '+2', to be honest. But maybe I am missing something really crucial and obvious - I am just a lowly scrub after all.
 
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Queen

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fsmile fsmile
It's been a while since I last got to play Project M and even longer since I've played a Charizard, but I might have some insight that is useful to you.

When I fight against Charizard, I try to take advantage of how slow he is and remain aware of how much space/range he controls with his moves. I approach Charizard with the perspective that he is a zoning character. However, he is not as good at zoning as Peach is, in my opinion. However, he controls larger zones than Peach does and he is quite reliant on that. Baiting Charizard into unfavorable positions is the name of the game. Peach needs to use her greater mobility and turnips to really put pressure on Charizard.

Actually approaching Charizard is a pain in the ass for the reasons you've elucidated earlier. You basically need to be an illusionist or a clairvoyant in order to approach successfully. I like baiting forward tilts so that I can short hop backwards into a small float and then f-air his extended head, for instance, but sometimes they catch wise so, like always, mixing things up is crucial.

So far as I'm concerned, a Charizard in the air is my favorite Charizard. So many of his aerials hit high relative to his body so coming from below is ideal. Peach can n-air through Charizard's n-air pretty easily, in my experience. Turnips while Charizard is airborne are also quite delicious since they interrupt whatever he's doing or you force him to commit to some option you can take advantage of. When Charizard is at lower percents, I like to turnip into f-air, land and clip him with either an u-tilt or an f-tilt potentially into either a u-air or f-air to set up for the edgeguard.

As a disclaimer, these thoughts are pretty scattered and based on some pretty limited information and experience. I hope it helps you, but if it doesn't I'm always up for more discussion.
 
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McWaffles

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Sorry for the interruption dudes, but do you have any advice against Ness? My friend @Onett Boy plays him and he repetitively beats me with him. Any help? Thanks.
 

fsmile

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Queen Queen
Thanks for the response. You're right: you seem to have to play a bait-and-punish heavy game against Charizard. This can become problematic though when you have to face a campy and defensive Charizard. Hence, I have been reading up on related content and experimenting in the meantime:

Armada made a whole bunch of points in his Peach-Marth-Guide that either directly relate or can be extended to the PM Charizard match-up.
The key points to take away from that guide, without going into much detail:
-be cautious when pulling turnips: don't go for unsafe pulls, as Charizard can close the gap relatively quickly and punish Peach hard.
-bad dash-attacks on shield or crouch-cancels when Charizard is grounded.
-full-height float-cancels, which put you right in Charizard's tilt, up-smash and up-tilt. Furthermore, full-height f-air on shield is not safe as it comes out too early.
-don't ever be above Charizard, f-tilt / smash and all his aerials will wreck your day
-d-tilt on shield can be good (but is punishable, so use it primarily when his shield is already low)
-make intelligent use of turnips: spamming has its place, but having a turnip in hand can be life-saving

In addition, there are a number of things I noticed:
-Charizards like to glide (either normally or fiery) to the ledge when recovering. In either case, a low-float d-air to neutral-air covers that option, unless they SDI every hit away or down
-should the lizard opt to not glide to the ledge but instead attempt to challenge your float directly with a fire-glide, neutral-air beats it hard, which will leave him offstage without any jumps
-owing to his size, down-throw to re-grab works really well. Dash-attack can cover DI behind (or at least seems to)
-his DACUS is dangerous and fast. Be wary of your spacing when going for higher floats.

EDIT: spelling mistake
 
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