Awkward Moments Mafia - Game over! Scum wins! Will a SD game ever see a town victory?

[th3kuzinator]

ß

inb4 asdioh

:haha i can still make jokes

: D ranmaur face

 

[Kantrip]

Kuz, this is important:[COLLAPSE="important"]

[/COLLAPSE]

 

[th3kuzinator]

...but that wasnt important at all! D :

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Count

1. Red Ryu (2) - Fynal, Armor
2. th3kuzinator
3. Fynal
4. Acrostic
7. Kantrip
8. FragMental
9. Felipe_9595
10. Armor (3) - Asdioh, Kantrip, Red Ryu
11. Asdioh

Not voting: th3kuzinator, Fragmental, Felipe_9595, Acrostic

 

[felipe_9595]

Okay. hello guys :D I will try to reread everything (Oh **** 69 pages Fffuuu). i will give my thoughts then.

 

[felipe_9595]

Ohly **** guys, What hppened in d1??? Seriously, you lynched cop o-o?????

 

[felipe_9595]

Oh and sorry for the missing characters, this keyboard haves some problems with the A letter.

 

[Asdioh]

yeah we kind of... last minute inactive lynched... he hadn't posted in 3 days and didn't have time to claim >_>

 

[felipe_9595]

Thats.... sad.

Also, the first 20/30 were a gian ... giant..gint... null sandwich.

Also, Soupa is my fos.

 

[Asdioh]

Soup's dead and flipped town.

You should at least look at the flips before reading (hoping they're in the OP..)

 

[felipe_9595]

Oh lol J replaced soupa derrrrrrrp huuuuurrrp

 

[th3kuzinator]

OK.

IM HERE AND SOBER.

HOWEVER, im also going to go out tonight (weekend, i deserve it, sorry) so i will only be here until like 7-8 tonight.

ill mostly be in the thread until then. ask me **** and ill start answering things i think are relevant.

 

[th3kuzinator]

late EBWOP: not wagoning for the sake of wagoning. Armor was one of the scummier looking players by the point I had gotten to, and I don't really remember him getting any better after that, or being wagoned at all.


Immediate thoughts on alignments:

Most likely to be town:
Kuz
Fynal
Kantrip
Asdioh

(someone will have to remind me why Kantrip is town. I believe it atm, but while rereading he didn't come across as townie as I expected. I thought Fynal looked a lot more town, in fact)



Still likely to be town but not as sure:
FragMental
July

I'm pretty sure FM is town, but I honestly can't remember why for that one either, remind me pl0x.

I also think July is more likely town, but I never trust her ever

Scummy or process of elimination'd:
Gova
Armor
Ryker

Agree with this except I would move July up to strong town, Gova/Felipe up to neutral and FM down to scum. Actually I might put Gova in strong town, idk.

My lynch pool would be the three left over in the scum category: RR/Armor/FM

 

[th3kuzinator]

@MOD: You recently asked for a new replacement in the signups thread. Is someone else replacing out?

 

[th3kuzinator]

@MOD: You recently asked for a new replacement in the signups thread. Is someone else replacing out?

that was supposed to be bolded

 

[#HBC | Acrostic]

@MOD: You recently asked for a new replacement in the signups thread. Is someone else replacing out? that was supposed to be bolded

It's comments like this that really shake my read on him. Armor definitely needs to either get his *** in this game, ESPECIALLY now, or he needs to consider replacing out. Because he is definitely going to be an end game liability along with Fragmental/Gova.

As for why not replace out? If gova replaces, that'll be our 3rd replacement already. Not sure there are that many fish in the sea, but if there are... @Mod: Request replacement

Replacements: Ryker [Red Ryu], July [Acrostic], Gova [Felipe], Armor [?]

 

[th3kuzinator]

I still do not like FragMental tbh, And I think that his reaction to Ryker's gambit is null; of course as town he would say that he didn't recieve a pm, but as scum he would be dumb to say he received a message when he didn't anyways. His response to the gambit after that was very reactive; he asked other people how they felt but he's been very reluctant to give his own reads unless provoked, especially when it comes to Ryker who was the main wagon at the time and whose gambit is something worthy of conversation.

Just because it's a dumb action doesn't mean it's an impossibility, for future reference. Nevertheless, I could have gone along with Ryker's little gambit, but I didn't see the value in doing such. I would like to think he was acting on his earlier read of me, but I cannot discern his true motive with it.

Have you played with Ryker before/had a history with playing with Ryker as Koopa did? Also, why did you ignore the main point of July's post which stated that you were being very picky in your responses to gambit and were being very reactive? You chose to comment on something that July already said was null and then made sure you acknowledged it was null instead of addressing her actual argument on you being scum.

You should have pushed for me instead of Gova if you really feel that strongly about me being scum. I personally feel one should stick to their own perspective and strongest scumread unless it compromises the success of the town at at least garnering a flip. Which is why I suspect you voted Gova instead because of this understanding...

]FM. That's probably not realistic though, so then yeah Gova.

But regardless. Otherwise it makes your position look halfhearted, wouldn't you agree? Though you at least address Ryker here. I honestly don't know what to feel about him at this point. I want to say that seemingly "superfluous" gambit had some town intent but at the same time his reads have been sort of disjointed, especially on Gova... Very unlikely that Gova and Ryker are scum together though, looking into following posts.

This heavily reeks to me. Most of the content FM has defaulted to now is very non-committal and fence-sitty. He makes the point that July should have been pushing for her main scumpick's lynch regardless of the deadline approaching but then literally avoids commenting on how that affects his view of her alignment. Not only does he put himself in a position where he can side with either view (he says he might understand what she was trying to do even though he doesn't agree with it) he ends the point by suggesting that what she did makes her looks half-hearted. He's too afraid to make a single assertion and would prefer to passively throw the idea out in the open and hope someone else capitalizes on it. This is pretty much textbook safe scum play because it puts out information others might agree with yet doesn't actually directly involve him in conflict with July.

He uses language such as I personally believe (so if someone disagrees with him he can use that as an out) and then quickly transitions off attacking July to sympathizing with her. He then talks about Ryker and pretty much does the same thing, says Ryker is null for three sentences. Pretty much the only thing useful I gained from this chunk is the last sentence which states that he doesn't think that Gova and Ryker are mates. As helpful as knowing that he doesn't think two people are scummates is, I havn't learned **** else about anything.

I don't think I can apply the same justification for a Gova townread like Kuz did earlier...

It's very presumptuous to go along this reasoning (see: definition of WIFOM, even though this can be applied universally), don't you think? Should one be excused as scum just because they act apathetic and indifferent in every game, thus leading you to believe they are town? That's a very sloppy read to apply on such a faulty basis. I don't like this post.

Goes out of his way to debunk my reasoning on GovaTown but then doesn't say what he thinks about Gova. He just spoonfeeds us what the definition of WIFOM is and then says that my reasoning for why Gova being town doesn't make sense. He doesn't even make a solid inference from his reasoning. He also phrased the same question he did to July with "don't you think?" He's not getting his hands dirty AT ALL.

For Gova, this is a telling post for me because it seems more like town trying to get info out of their lynch for town before they are lynched instead of scumGova trying to fake it before he is lynched. So in my opinion, I do see town-intent behind Gova.

Now that's more like a reasoning I could understand for a Gova townread.

Notice he does the same thing again. Just says that he can see the reasoning for Gova town but doesn't comment on what he actually thinks about Gova. Why did he even need to comment on this? If it wasn't to say that his read on Gova changed then it would be to say that his read on J had, but J was already dead when he wrote this so literally this post is meaningless.

This is where I really started to develop a scum read on FM. When asked about RF he gives no real read on him, just says that he’s not 100% on the lynch but would be fine lynching him anyways. Gova read is the only read that has really come unprovoked so far, and like every other read it’s a town read and its very weak. I wanted more content from him and his response was that he’s already provided a good deal of reads and that they haven’t changed, which isn’t good because all the past reads were weak and poorly substantiated (actually for ones like Gova, Asdioh, etc they are completely unsubstantiated), no talk of scum reads and no input on current events in thread.

I can accept this reasoning quite easily, though I don't ever recall you asking me to EXPOUND, just that you desired my reads. It's been a while though, so maybe I'm just remembering quite erroneously... And it's not as if I can elaborate very concretely on such grounds to begin with; it was D1 and I only had slight "vibes" to work with that early, if you will.

July pretty much hits the nail on the head with this accusation. All his reads have to be dragged out of him and, even then, everything that he actually posts says absolutely nothing. Just elaborate reasoning for why he's null on everything. In response to this, FM first starts off my saying she has a point, but then tries to say she's exaggerating, but then finishes that maybe he's just remembering wrong.

...

Do I really have to keep going?

FM made it quite clear that he didn’t want to discuss current events because they were “boring” and “drawn out” in respect to RF, but the discussions about RF going on in the thread were important and refusing to take part in it but then voting RF just to get a flip just isn’t logical to me. He then says in the same post in which he votes that he doesn’t get the best vibes from the RF wagon, but he’s willing to go along with I anyways and it all just seems so passive and it’s not just that he doesn’t know who to vote, but he doesn’t seem to want to scumhunt and is thus perfectly content just letting the RF wagon ride and propose no one else to be looked into despite that mild contention to the wagon.

And you were perfectly content to vote Gova or Ryker instead of me, your prominent scumread. Why ride those other wagons, just because you didn't have enough time? Also, I'm quite a difficult player and will lose interest if I'm not having fun. That's all I meant on the RF subject with those words. And I personally like a concrete flip before developing my reads further, I am definitely not an earlygame player and won't pretend to be such.

This reeks so bad. FM tries to defend against July saying he wagoned on someone that he thought was unjustly under pressure by saying she wagoned on someone that wasn't her main scumpick under time constraints. The two are very different things and its gross that he tried to justify his actions by bringing up an entirely different scenario.

He then goes on to defend against everything else by attributing it all to his playstyle.

The entire things reeks of deflection.

The last part I still stand by the fact that FM did not put himself out there AT ALL, he addresses only what he wants to, gives reads only when provoked, and makes as few connections as possible.

Pretty much exactly what I am getting at.

Overall, Kuz looks a bit iffier to me but I honestly think he's just using flawed reasoning and nothing more for just that read in particular, he's still slightly town. Gova is being lax as ever so I still have a townread, however I feel Ryker would be more likely scum then Gova for his inconsistency. July is... Interesting to say the least, I feel she's been too focused on tunneling me but her backing for the vote is mostly articulated reasonably. I find Armor to be worse than Gova at the moment, mostly background (yay hypocrisy!) posting in my eyes. Asdioh and Kantrip still look townish to me for their continual contribution and I just don't notice any scum intent in their posts. Fynal... Eh, not sure. I like some of his content but at other times I get a bad gut feeling about him for whatever reason. I'll have to pay attention to him more.

...

Kuz - iffier for dumb reasoning but its probably nothing and im probably wrong so hes still probably town.

Gova - Hes pretty lax so he's town.

Ryker - He would more likely be scum than Gova. Wtf am i reading . jpg.

He just said he thinks Gova is town so I literally have no idea what this makes his read of Ryker, then. He could be more likely to be scum but still be town in his eyes. Its just like July has said, he tries to makes as few hard stances/connections as possible.

July - Interesting. Not town or scum, just interesting. Details what she has done but said nothing about her alignment.

Armor - Worse than Gova. (Again, WTF does this even mean?)

Asdioh - town

Kantrip - town

Fynal - I like some of his stuff but I don't like some other things. Over all I have no idea.

---

So in grand total we have no scumpicks a few town reads and a lot of unknowns.

This is literally one of the grimiest posts I have ever seen in my history of playing mafia. Even in a post directly trying to refute July saying that he says nothing committal, he says nothing committal. As I explained above, the entire thing just reeks of fence sitting/reactive play/deflection/miscontrued arguments/hypocrisy/and overcautious play.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Vote: FragMental

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Kuz, who would you rather see go between FragMental and Gova?

That should be obvious by now, but I think Gova is town and FM is my #1 pick.

 

[th3kuzinator]

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13419978&postcount=709

This gave me the indication Kuzi was agreeing.

No, Asdioh is right. I am saying that Gova's apathetic nature is more of a town tell than a scum one.

 

[th3kuzinator]

The rest of what I missed is pretty much the same stuff as what I already commented on. People going back and forth between RR and Armor and FM sitting there throwing out non-committal one liners all over the place, agreeing with whatever the popular lynch wagon looks to be and only commenting on changes to his reads when someone becomes townier. He never comments on any of his scumreads and when he wants to push someone be just passively lists them as one of his scumpects and says he would be okay with their lynch. He never actually doesnt any dirty work to push them. Like at all.

inb4 he tells me thats just his playstyle.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Town

Kuz
Asdioh
Kantrip
Fynal
Acrostic

Null

Gova

Leaning Scum

Armor
Red Ryu

Scum

FragMental

I think the scumteam is FM/one of Armor or RR. Armor and RR can't be a scumteam as I've already stated time and time again, but I think one of them is and their mate is FM. I'd rather not take a stab in the dark of which is scum between Armor and RR but take the sure mate instead. Once we have FM's scumflip we can take out time finding his mate but we may actually be in trouble if we ML between Armor and RR. If for some reason scum aren't within those three (which I highly suspect they are), Gova would be my next pick. Everyone else is pretty solidly townie for me.

Luckily Sword gave us a deadline extension for Felipe replacing in so we have time before deadline. This switch can and will happen.

 

[th3kuzinator]

If I missed anything or anyone still has questions, I'll be here until the early evening.

 

[Armor]

Hmm. FM for having little content? FM's had much more content than you, and more than Gova as well. Elaborate on Acrostic, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "Soup content and read on FM."

Straight up, no. As of this post, FM has 7 more posts than I do, INCLUDING joking with TTK (not sure if she actually got anything from that, honestly.) She doesn't have "much more content", she has about the same content and a little more fluff.
AHAHA, in that post, I had forgotten who Acrostic replaced, and said Soup, but he replaced July. Feel the need to repeat: I'm an idiot. I should probably reread the game every time I post. As for Acrostic, this obvtown read on FM (entirely baseless) makes me suspicious of both of them.


O_O A wild Kuz appears! That analysis post on FM... good stuff.

@Kuz: Isn't it a little suspicious Acrostic called FM "obvtown by consensus" after a re-read, when the only one who called FM town was Ryker(someone correct me if I'm wrong.)
Can see the FM/RR/Acrostic scumteam!!! Then kuz points to Acrostic's slot calling FM scum. Slight loss of confidence. Anyway, would be fine with her or RR lynch toDay, but there's time for debate.

 

[Kantrip]

Wow kuz, thanks for that case. However, I'm not sure if I'm feeling a FM lynch for toDay.

Hmm, remind me again why RR and Armor aren't a scumteam?

Well Armor, I personally don't think ANY of your posts have really given any good reads or cases WITH reasoning. FM has at least a few of these.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Remind me where FM has any posts with cases and or reasoning? I can't seem to remember any independent initiative from him this entire game.

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Kantrip: Why aren't you feeling a FM lynch? Do you just think Armor is a scummier candidate? If so, what is your read on FM and what are your thoughts specifically on what I've said.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hmm, remind me again why RR and Armor aren't a scumteam?

@FM, thirdkoopa: If I told you I had mod confirmed information the fictitious lunatic was scum would you lynch him based of my word on the assumption that I would throw myself on the noose if I was lying?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13353948&postcount=59
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13357040&postcount=117
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13357097&postcount=119

 

[Kantrip]

Hmm, I see. Are you set on RR and Armor not being a scumteam? Because if this is true then the FM lynch is in fact a good idea.

I was going off the idea that I thought Armor and RR could be a scumteam, and I thought they were more scummy than FM.

I like your case though, and your point is a good one. If Armor and RR aren't a scumteam, I would nail the scum team as either Armor + FM or RR + FM.

You also have both Gova and Acrostic listed in your reads. Didn't Acrostic replace in for Gova?

 

[Kantrip]

Wait nevermind

 

[th3kuzinator]

@Armor: I'm more inclined to think that its a two man scumteam with an indy faction than a three man mafia team. At the moment I think its RR/FM but I am also strongly considering the possibility of you being FM's mate. What I find weird about RR and FM is that Ryker did that cop inno on FM and, even after FM renounced it, Ryker still maintained his weird town read on him. I've talked with Ryker a lot about mafia theory and that seems right up his alley for the type of ballsy distancing he might pull on a scummate.

In the even of FM flipping scum, RR would defiantly be next. I think Acrostic is a complete other issue and I still have yet to see someone make any adequate points against either him or his predecessor. I heavily agree with pretty much everything July has posted (and had a large town read on that slot when she was play) and Acrostic has done nothing to change that.

 

[Armor]

Well Armor, I personally don't think ANY of your posts have really given any good reads or cases WITH reasoning. FM has at least a few of these.

Don't really think she has any of those(feel free to prove me wrong), but even assuming she had just a few of those, does that create such a gap between us? Enough to call her obvtown and me obvscum? The point I'm trying to make is that any townread on her is massively unjustified, and frankly, suspicious.

Hmm, remind me again why RR and Armor aren't a scumteam?

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13353948&postcount=59
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13357040&postcount=117
http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13357097&postcount=119

[Kentucky drawl:] I dun' getit

 

[Kantrip]

Yeah you're right Armor. I looked back for posts FM had with substance (and there were less of them than I thought there were), and they were all just answering questions. No self-motivated scumhunting, no self-initiated reads or stances, no... content.

Unvote

Vote: FragMental

 

[th3kuzinator]

Hmm, I see. Are you set on RR and Armor not being a scumteam? Because if this is true then the FM lynch is in fact a good idea.

I was going off the idea that I thought Armor and RR could be a scumteam, and I thought they were more scummy than FM.

I like your case though, and your point is a good one. If Armor and RR aren't a scumteam, I would nail the scum team as either Armor + FM or RR + FM.

You also have both Gova and Acrostic listed in your reads. Didn't Acrostic replace in for Gova?

Yes I am set on that because I think its pretty clear that when you read the interaction (be my guest, read pages 1-3 again) and not just the isolated posts, that Armor jumped at the thought of me revealing info that would condemn RF. This would not bother me the other way around because RF would be experienced enough to bus his mate in an instant for appearances, but I don't think Armor could have acted that quickly and genuinely if he was mates with him. He would be worried about his scummate getting condemned.

And thats why FM is a great lynch. After his scumflip we can take out time and read back looking his connections and judge which of RR/Armor is more likely to pop scum. As it is, if we lynch wrong inbetween those two we will have nothing to go on tomorrow and be in a pretty bad situation with numbers (assuming different scenarios of scum).

Acrostic replaced in for July.

 

[Fynal]

Sup kuz

Like the FM case. Feel similar about armor, still want armor more toDay.

My gut still insists ryker is scum but my reasons are wifomier than I'd like

Well it looks like I'll actually be home before the new and improved deadline. One of these recent posts gave me an idea, got something to look at when I have my usable medium of posting back

 

[Fynal]

Biggest ninja ever, gawd this is so slow to type

 

[Kantrip]

Lol mobile devices

I'm gonna go read page 1-3 again and try to see where you're coming from.

 

[th3kuzinator]

Sup fynal, how's ohio?

Vote FM with me. You won't be dissapoint.

 

[Kantrip]

Okay I see what you mean with how Armor reacted to your mod-confirmed smoke signals. I wouldn't put the possibility completely out of my mind, but I agree that Red Ryu and Armor are not a scumteam.

 

[Fynal]

Ohios actually been really nice. Spent 4 hours this morning playing gauntlet 2 on my uncle's old NES

BLUE WIZARD IS ABOUT TO DIE!!!!!!111!!1

Ok

vote: fm

Will def switch to RR or armor if stuff goes that way

Also a bunch of kantrips most recent posts, like 1069, have like exactly matched my thought process. Good stuff dude.