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Australian Melee Power Rankings V1.5

Redact

Professional Nice Guy
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s.d got 3-0'd by ted in a mm, he was obviously far off his game, id be suprised if ted could take a game normally and its as bad as 3-0

anyone in B tier could easily place 4th at a major of someone in a tier lost to them at the right time (see: mb vs sd)

one placing isnt enough to make someone a tier, you need consistant results and an impression upon the community making htme think you are A tier, neither of which you have currently

work on it like the rest of us are (8
 

Dekar289

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Feb 20, 2007
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he beat ted at acl... last major before that was rocky i think? where he surprised everyone and came 5th iirc
 

pressokman

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Oct 28, 2008
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Aus major results.
rocky 5th
ACL 7th
Reloaded 4th

@Redact: a touney with dekar,zxv,sd,syke,kas not "anyone in b tier could get 4th" what are your major tourney results?

I agree that Marc and I are diffucult to place atm and it really is only 1 successful tournament result to rely on. I think the best way to settle this is to have blackshadow and i play all the top 5 at bam and see how many we can beat.
 

Redact

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Aus major results.
rocky 5th
ACL 7th
Reloaded 4th

@Redact: a touney with dekar,zxv,sd,syke,kas not "anyone in b tier could get 4th" what are your major tourney results?

I agree that Marc and I are diffucult to place atm and it really is only 1 successful tournament result to rely on. I think the best way to settle this is to have blackshadow and i play all the top 5 at bam and see how many we can beat.
add cao in there and I placed 5th at tpoo despite that lineup
atticus placed 5th at ACL with again cao in that lineup

also read the whole post, not the part you choose please. I didn't say anyone could in b tier could place 4th at any tourney, I said "anyone in B tier could easily place 4th at a major of someone in a tier lost to them at the right time"

notice the "IF they beat an A tier player at the right time."

S.D played terribly and every single person with half a brain will see that, ted took him 3-0 in a MM straight after your set with him.

If youre going to go based off one result, then what is the point of a PR? Why not just look at the most recent results and use that?
 

Darkwing SykeDuk

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"- The more recent the tournament, the more weight it holds in determining placement on the ranking.
- More recent wins or losses hold more weight.
- More tournament results equates to more consistency in placement."

...

"- All considerations by the panel should not be heavily dictated by the criteria, the criteria instead serving to guide the panel to the most accurate outcome."

Tourney results don't mean everything. Cronos Rainbow was voted best smasher in Aus a few years back, without winning a single tourney, and his other results wer like 25th - 7th at best.. A tier is basically anyone who is able to win a national, that's what I feel anyway. Also, A tier will be combined with the next pr/image to be a single rank aka not 1-5 like it is now. B Tier however will continue to be ranked.
 

Dekar289

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shaz was voted best smasher in that survey thing, which didn't have panelists and wasn't about skill
why not numbering a tier? i like the title of number 1 thx. ordering only half the pr is dumb dumb dumb
 

Redact

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order:

dekar
zxv
syke
s.d
kas
monkeybear
ted
redact/atticus
redact/atticus
??? (xlr8,scrubs,aussierob,kier)


gogogogoog
 

tedeth

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FAULCONNNN-BRRRIIIIDGE!!!
It might be too soon for a new one? There seems to be too many different opinions.

The fairest thing for Monkeybear might be to just not change the PR until after the next major, and then we he rips everyone's ****s off again everyone will be like "yeah he's the ****". That way he's not lower/higher than he belongs and nobody can deny or argue with his position.

I think Redact has the right idea though, for the record. :p
 

Blackshadow

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May 24, 2006
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Adelaide, Australia. Along with my Mad Duck.
I don't see how "A tiers losing at the right time" is considered criteria to not place Eric. All players on the tournament day must play through as many matches as their skill takes them to get further into the tournament, which means Eric had played just as many matches as SD, perhaps even more depending on how many friendlies each played. Fatigue also isn't quantifiable nor provable, are the panelists going to claim "bad day" every time an A tier player loses a tournament match to someone not in A tier? If you aren't playing at your best at the biggest major in Australia, perhaps you need to improve your mindset or stamina, but in no way does that reflect on other players who manage to beat you at that tournament. Eric played lots of friendlies with good players that day, and as much as friendlies have no bearing on the PR all of them would agree that he isn't a B tier player. One of those people was Dekar.

I know someone will also make the "travelling interstate, stayed in ****ty hotel etc etc." argument too, in which case I point out to you that Eric and I placed well at ACL despite not eating, sleeping and barely drinking for more than two days, and the tournament began 30 minutes after we got off our flight and bus ride to the venue with no rest inbetween. Does that mean we have an excuse if we lost matches we were "supposed" to win? Is there some convenient fine print I'm missing here? I can easily argue that Eric would have taken 1st at ACL if he wasn't so fatigued, and I've seen him play for more hours than many have ever played this game. Does my opinion now hold as much weight in regards to Eric's placement as Redact's (or anyone else's for that matter) of SD? No, it's ****ing irrelevant because that's not what Eric placed at ACL so it doesn't ****ing matter, and so neither does Redact's matter.

Redact said:
add cao in there and I placed 5th at tpoo despite that lineup
atticus placed 5th at ACL with again cao in that lineup
Have you or Atticus placed that highly at majors on three separate occasions, with no bad placements in between? You don't have a leg to stand on here.


Overall, all that needs to be done is either place Eric in a transitional tier or A tier. This "SD playing badly" bull**** is both irrelevant and unquantifiable, and Eric has placed highly and consistently at three major tournaments (his entire Australian smash experience), which is impossible to say about any of the other B tiers.
 

Darkwing SykeDuk

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S.D is the only person he's beaten out of A tier from all those tourney's.. Wer as S.D has beaten players like Kas, ZXV and Cao (who would easily be top 3 btw) in previous tournies. Placings is all well and good but if you come 4th by only beating 1 A rank player for the first time it doesn't hold much.
 

Redact

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But it is possible to say that any other B tier player could beat S.D that day without doubt, as ted already showed.

He has beaten ONE a tier player on ONE occasion. This does not justify him moving up to A tier.

He has consistantly placed 5th~ average. Not including the most recent result, he has one result being from 2 years ago (where i think he placed higher than dekar, ted didnt even play melee then so on), and one result where he placed lower than other A tier players.

He has shown consistancy to place well, but not consistancy on going even with A tier players.

Once he shows consistancy to beat/play even with A tier players, then he will be considered an A tier player.

I beat Syke back at Robocop, which is more recent than rocky. I beat cao at a local tourney more recently than rocky. These results are negligable because they are too old.

Monkey bears performance this year at majors:

tpoo: not present
ACL: 7th
Reloaded: 4th


the reason why we take in consistant results is exactly why we are saying his ONE win over S.D is not going to change his place. To rate people based off average performance, not one performance.

If you honestly think that single win over S.D in terrible condition should change the PR, then you REALLY need to clarify the criteria of the PR and the purpose of a PR.

S.D playing terribly is 100% relevant and very quantifiable.

If you disagree with any of this, then you need to re-evaluate your meaning of a PR and your understanding of what a PR involves
 

Blackshadow

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Fair enough Syke. What do you suggest happens to Eric's placement? In front of Tedeth is probably the most reasonable placement, I haven't seen nearly as much argument regarding that position compared to the others so I presume less people have a problem with it.
 

pressokman

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The fairest thing for Monkeybear might be to just not change the PR until after the next major, and then we he rips everyone's ****s off again everyone will be like "yeah he's the ****". That way he's not lower/higher than he belongs and nobody can deny or argue with his position.
Yea this. Like I said, I will PR match everyone in A tier at Bam so we can have "results we can rely on." I cbf trying to argue i'm better than anyone in a tier because it won't get me anywhere near as far as overwhelmingly proving it by beating some of them. Guys, it's a PR not a high school girls click. Beating more A tiers should make it very obvious to you I belong there. Until then, keep it the way it is.

Also i agree with keeping rankings for the top 5.
@ dekar and syke $10 MM at bam sheik vs marth
 

S.D

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I'm not going to john about how I played, I'll just say what everyone does when they fall short of their own expectation, I feel I could have done better.

As for Monkeybear I know he's real tight, solid player, improving really fast too. I think his result against Kas was pretty indicative of where he's at atm - that wasn't close - and while Eric could be right there by BAM I think he's just shy presently. Just above Ted sounds about right for now, although I won't be surprised if they both surpass me pretty soon and maybe stun a few others.
 

VashT.S.

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
98
I think everyone is taking this PR a little too seriously. All of these pages is regarding whether or not Eric should be A or B tier. I know this probably applies to a lot of Australians as well but Eric is still getting his "tournament legs". I am 100% confident that if everyone in A tier, including Eric, played friendlies for a few hours they would admit that he not only has a place but could possibly be the best. That's the thing with PR though, it's based on tournament ranking. Eric choked in his matches vs syke. It's really evident in the first match. By the time BAM rolls around this PR debate will seem very silly.
 
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