Atlantic North Melee Circuit - Third Event TBD...

[GOTM]

What about a personalized Wii instead?

I mean, really. A cube? That's like handing out personalized 64's when the GC was out.

haha, i think that would actually be kinda cool.

Yeah I can do that.

you can, and you will. SPOC's are amazing, getem going you little ****

Bullheaded Onychomys is looking to be an awesome tourney on January 3rd in CT. I think it should be an ANMC event, what does everyone think about that?

I have to PM spawn and make sure he can follow the ANMC guidelines.

btw jfox, il hold CoTs before then most likely, but they wont be ANMC and probably not as big as normal. There's still the biweeklies for now.

thats far, i dont even know if im still gonna be on break when that happens.

as for COT, have we gotten a response yet chibo?

 

[JFox]

Gotm, u need to make it to tourneys. u were making so much progress, and then all of a sudden u just dropped off the map.

Plus, im gonna **** the balls off u.

 

[GOTM]

Gotm, u need to make it to tourneys. u were making so much progress, and then all of a sudden u just dropped off the map.

Plus, im gonna **** the balls off u.

yeah ive been like real busy =/ im going to kansas this weekend though and ill be at the anmc events.

its too much of a hassle with all the work i have right now to like go to every tournament every weekend though

 

[Kite91]

This Is Freakin Amazing Long Live Melee

 

[JFox]

Hah, just kidding.

 

[Pakman]

Yo you should have Bullheaded Onychomys as a circuit tourny.

This is going to be the winter of smash.

 

[CT Chia]

ok im starting the planning phase for CoT5 (or whatever number it turns out to be then), the giant melee only one which will be the circuit event. i think im gonna go for mid february. does anyone know of any big events already in february by any chance? also, what weekend is superbowl? i forget.

 

[JFox]

Yo chibo, the first page is a little bit hazy about what happens at the end of the circuit. Is it that the person with the most points is given the money collected, or what? Cuz it seems like the points mean nothing, unless they are what qualify you for a private tourney or something...

 

[SHDW23]

if total points are used to qualify for the final tourney, i think more consideration needs be given to when events are held. i have a position very similar to Alukard's, and if people who are in contention have to miss one tourney for a family trip or something like that because the tourney was schedule during a known popular vacation time then that doesn't seem real fair. that's not to say that if one person's going to miss an event because they're doing something else that the tourney should be postponed. but perhaps scoring could take into consideration average points per event played or something like that. a lot of stats are averages of at least _____ number of appearances (or the equivalent) maybe that would be the best scoring system. it would allow people to miss one or two events if they had too without losing a lot of places, but it doesn't allow someone to pull off a miracle 1st place in the first event and then never go to another tourney and get into the finals.

this is a great thread.

 

[CT Chia]

il update the thread soon (most likely tonight, definitely b4 first tourney) to clarify what happens at the end of the circuit, and how were going to do doubles.

as for what shdw said, the points are distributed on a scale where this shouldn't be such an issue. Obviously the more events you attend helps, but theres nothing you can exactly do if you aren't able to attend a lot of them. there is a very generous point amount given to the top players so lets say m2k goes to like 2 of 6 tourneys and does awesome, he'll still end up being top 32 or whatever at the end.

 

[Pakman]

Make the COnnecticut tourny circuit.

 

[CT Chia]

i already contacted spawn (i think thats who made the post for it) about making it anmc a while ago. he replied and seemed like he definitely wants to do it, but needed to talk to the other TO about it first. il send him a follow up PM about it

 

[SHDW23]

my concerns weren't really for m2k and the tip top players. i was more concerned for the person who's trying to qualify in the 32nd place and is unable to attend the last tournament and will therefore fall short by a couple points. if you feel that the scoring method won't allow that to happen then that's fine. but it seems that what you are proposing will not account for that.

 

[CT Chia]

I'm sorry but there's nothing we can do about that. Say there's someone who attends all tourneys and always places 32nd place, and theres one person who attends like 2 of them who also places 32nd. The first person would have more right to be there. The higher you place though, the easier it is to make it in even without attending tournies. However remember, even people that consistently place 32nd dont have that great a shot of making it in. even though there are 32 ppl moving on, there will be multiple people placing around 7th and 9th and 13th that will eventually account for a lot of the spots. try your best and hope you make it! (i hope i do somehow lol, and i cant make the 2nd event and im organizing this thing lol)

im gonna start updating the first post now

 

[Scar]

Chibo, you could drop each person's lowest score? Like a quiz average and if you miss one that's your drop.

Just an idea.

 

[Pakman]

Chibo, you could drop each person's lowest score? Like a quiz average and if you miss one that's your drop.

Just an idea.

I think with 4 or more tournaments that is a GREAT idea.

 

[CT Chia]

updated first post

if the scores were your average placement thats actually an awesome idea, but thats not how this circuit works (maybe il do that in the future?)
lets say at the 6 events you place:
3rd 3rd 5th 7th 9th 17th
From each tourney you would have these points - 25 25 12 10 8 2 giving you a total of 82 points.
if you wanted to drop the 17th place, all that does is give you 2 less points lol.

dropping a tourney doesnt work in a point based system, only a average based system

edit: im actually really intrigued in doing an average points based system. it would not work at all for doubles, but it would be great for singles.

 

[Scar]

Right but you only count everyone's top 5 out of 6 tourneys.

 

[GOTM]

Right but you only count everyone's top 5 out of 6 tourneys.

that would work

 

[phish-it]

^^ But what about people who attend less then that? They wouldn't have their places dropped, and by dropping your own it would onl decrease your chances of getting in. (Realisticly, that would only be a problem if say you attend 5 tournies and always place 17th/25th).

I still think just the cumilitive points works best for something like this.

 

[Pakman]

What if you got like all 3rd place, but missed a tourny. And some other guy who places well but never got over 3rd place goes to all of them. The guy who consistently got 3rd place should be seeded 3rd (or possibly higher) and dropping the lowest tournament does this.

You are asking a lot of people if you want them to show up to all 6 tournaments. There are some things you just can't avoid. Weddings, family events and other stuff that can come up. For example, Mogwai can't make it to No Johns this weekend. Assuming he goes to the other 5, he might be unfairly left out of the final round.

Dropping the lowest is called trimming. It makes results more accurate by taking out fringe data that can heavily affect results. If someone was playing bad because he was sick, or if someone misses a tourny they can make it up by not missing another one.

I agree that participation is important. Otherwise, I would suggest only taking like the top 3 out of six, but like I stated before, expecting everyone to show up to 6 tournaments is not feasible. Things come up.

Lastly I wanna talk about mathematics.
Assuming everyone has the same number of tournaments attended, the average and totals rank everyone in the same order.

Example: Three tournaments were held
Player 1 has scores A1 B1 and C1 Total score A1 + B1 + C1 = T1 AVG1=T1/3
Player 2 has scores A2 B2 and C2 Total score A2 + B2 + C2 = T2 AVG2=T2/3
Player 3 has scores A3 B3 and C3 Total score A3 + B3 + C3 = T3 AVG3=T3/3

Ranking T1, T2 and T3 is the same as Ranking T1/3, T2/3 and T3/3.

 

[CT Chia]

theres either two things im thinkn of now

1. either keep the ranks the same. the points are spread out enough that even doing well at few of them is still beneficial, for instance, getting 3rd place four times gives you 100 points. getting 4th place 5 times gives you 75 points. the first person still benefits, even more so if the 2nd person attended a 6th tournament and got 4th.

2. use the average system but work it like this. there will probably be 6 events (the current 5 and bullhead if it gets confirmed), and only take the top 4 point values for each player. if you attend all 6, then you get to drop two. if you miss one cause you can't make it and attend 5, you still get to drop your lowest score. if you attend 3, then we could either only average the 3, or count your lowest score twice. the only problem with this plan is say that someone like m2k goes to one tourney and gets 1st and doesnt attend any others. that means his avg score is 45, which is also a perfect score and guaranteed first seed all from attending only one event.

im still leaning towards the points system, but something else is definitely possible

 

[Pakman]

theres either two things im thinkn of now

1. either keep the ranks the same. the points are spread out enough that even doing well at few of them is still beneficial, for instance, getting 3rd place four times gives you 100 points. getting 4th place 5 times gives you 75 points. the first person still benefits, even more so if the 2nd person attended a 6th tournament and got 4th.

2. use the average system but work it like this. there will probably be 6 events (the current 5 and bullhead if it gets confirmed), and only take the top 4 point values for each player. if you attend all 6, then you get to drop two. if you miss one cause you can't make it and attend 5, you still get to drop your lowest score. if you attend 3, then we could either only average the 3, or count your lowest score twice. the only problem with this plan is say that someone like m2k goes to one tourney and gets 1st and doesnt attend any others. that means his avg score is 45, which is also a perfect score and guaranteed first seed all from attending only one event.

im still leaning towards the points system, but something else is definitely possible

Did you read my post? Dropping points from an average system and dropping points from a total points system mathematically rank the players in the exact same order. You can keep everything the same (meaning using a total points system) and drop the lowest score and players would be ranked the same as if you had used an average system.

Its not like school where the actual score matters. What matters more is the ranking of scores.

 

[Scar]

I would disagree with a complete average, I think the point of the ANMC is for all of us to come together as a community and the people who do the most get rewarded slightly. If someone can get 1st at a tourney, not go to any of the others and still be invited to the final event then that's fine, but I don't think it should be encouraged.

@ Phish-it, I think skill and frequent attendance should both be rewarded, but skill takes precedence. So the idea of dropping one or two lowest scores from everyone's total is a nice balance.

Attending only one or two of the events should not be rewarded, which a complete average system would do.

 

[CT Chia]

the way the averaging system works different is incase someone misses an event. hypothetically lets say person 1 attends 6 tournies and person 2 attends 4 tourneys and they get these scores:

person1:
2(35) 2(35) 5(12) 4(15) 3(25) 7(10)

person 2:
3(25) 3(25) 5(12) 2(35) 4(15)

on a total score system, person 1 has 132 points, and person 2 has 112. That's a pretty large gap for 2 people who arguably close in skill level. because person 2 missed a tournament, that really hurts their overall placement.

on a average system, without dropping scores, person 1 has an avergae of 22, and person 2 has a average of 22.4. The scores are much closer like they should be. And one of the advantages of a average system, is being able to drop lower scores because people may have bad days, cant attend tournies, etc. if each players top 4 scores are used, person 1 has 27.5, and person 2 has 25. these arguably provide the most accurate placings.

so if we do 6 tourneys and accept the top 4, the results would be quite accurate I think. the only problem is for people that attend less than 4 tournies, how do we mandate this? do we have a rule that you can only be eligible for the final event if you attend atleast 3 tournaments? and for people that attend the bare minimum (3), to give them a 4th score we count their lowest score twice.

edit: after seeing scars post, this goes along well with the suggestion i made in the last paragraph that people have to attend atleast 3 tournies to be eligible.

btw, the NO JOHNS biweekly is going to be a features tourney on AiB!

 

[Pakman]

Here is my proposal (basically EXACTLY what Scar suggested before). We have N tournaments. We will drop the lowest M scores. Add up everyone's best N-M scores. If someone misses more than M tournaments, he gets zeros added in.

My suggestion is for every 3 or 4 circuit tournaments, discount 1 lowest score. So for a 6 tournament season drop one or two of the lowest scores and just grab the total. If you don't go to a tournament or do not place where you can get points, you get a zero.

To Chibo: I do believe attendance should be rewarded in some way. Your example in my system would look like

person1:
2(35) 2(35) 5(12) 4(15) 3(25) 7(10) -> drop lowest 2 = 2(35) 2(35) 4(15) 3(25) = 110

person 2:
3(25) 3(25) 5(12) 2(35) 4(15) N/A(0) -> drop lowest 2 = 3(25) 3(25) 2(35) 4(15) = 100

Because person 1 had a larger pool of values, his top 4 scores were better than person 2's top 4, but person 2 is still looking pretty good. In this example attendance is a huge factor.


I don't like the idea of an average because people who don't show up are rewarded and people who are just playing bad or are sick are getting screwed. Dropping the lowest scores treats both the guy who misses out and the guy who was just playing badly.

The only people that dropping low scores affect badly are people who are consistent. They lose the largest percentage of their points to the dropped scores compared to someone who gets a few really good places but screws up at two tournaments. IMO this would be a rare occasion and the streaky person would probably be considered comprable in skill to the consistant guy meaning on his good days he is better and on his bad days he is worse. This would probably come out in the average too.

 

[CT Chia]

i like it, 6 tournies, add up your top 4. everyone else agree?

updated rules on the front page for tourney hosts and tourney attendees. a lot of it is assumed already, but just stating it. i however cant stress enough how important accurate results are for the anmc tournies. its very important as i have to keep track of everything.

 

[Scar]

Yeah I def like that system, especially because what if the last tourney where person 1 went and got 7th and person 2 missed had a TON of really good people?

Person 1 basically gets screwed for even going, just like the test I just took today, I didn't know it was going to be hard as balls, I should have just skipped it and had it not even factor into my average.

Also everyone listen to Chibo, DO NOT LOSE YOUR RESULTS! We need the top 32 players to be reported to him, otherwise the whole thing is going to be stupid.

 

[Pakman]

Why can't that stuff be handled by TIO?

 

[SHDW23]

i was going to propose the system settled on, but i had to go to class, and you guys beat me too it. I like it much better than the pure average or the pure points. thanks for taking the time to consider my concerns. i understand and agree with the point that attendance should be rewarded. maybe not for this year (since it would take a lot of working about) but in the future a bonus points system could be devised that would give a small, but desirable bonus to the people who attended all or a vast majority of the events. but for the first go round, the current scoring system is more than sufficient.

 

[Scar]

The results or pools? For pools tio is just too hard to use, it's hard to switch them around, it's hard to do a lot. I wish he could rewrite it to be sort of like a graph where you can move people around freely, you can only switch people from one pool into another. Assigning each person to a pool would be way easier.

The results... well smashers seem to lose them a lot. Which sucks.

 

[CT Chia]

il update the first post with the new system in just a lil bit (i just got back from work)

tio is good enough for pools, i still use it at all my tourneys. i guess its not completely needed, but i would REALLY like pool data on tio also. this way, incase theres a dispute in matchups, we can always refer back to it, and also i can see everyone who attended the tourney. if im just given singles brackets, yea il have the points for everyone that deserves them, but I also kind of want to keep track of who actually attended each tournament.

if worse comes to worse, save your pool sheets, give them to me, and il digitize them. or i dont really mind putting them into tio, i should be at every anmc event (except spoc) so i can always handle the tio stuff there (getting pools in there, having doubles input properly, etc)

and yea the reason i want it all on tio also is so the data can be uploaded to AiB and ppl can pull up the brackets for any event. i kind of wanna keep the stat tracking on this thing rock solid, it will really show through in the end and i think people will appreciate the work put into this.

 

[Warrior of Zarona]

I also approve of the system.

 

[Ken34]

sounds good....post up some results someone after this has ended.

 

[Pierce7d]

Sounds brilliant IMO.

 

[Alukard]

I have the results thank god my sister is smart and amazing she saved it while she was using it =D

i'm sooo tired -______-'

thanks everyone for coming ... scar wats our record now ?? sheesh i think 3 to 1 ... ur leading ... i can't do samus vs cf anymore u kno all my tricks ... even my CP stage (i'm only a bag of tricks ... XD )

i still <3 u tho

 

[Venom NY]

gimme my points son also get at me and alu getting 5th ^___^ definetly our second tourney in months literally MONTHS like 5 i definetly need to get my flow back lol
edit: aloot of shoutouts later alukards biweekly was godly

 

[CT Chia]

i already have the results alukard, i snagged em with my usb drive at the end of the night. im readying all the anmc results stuff now

 

[CT Chia]

NO JOHNS Biweekly Point Distribution

Results Thread

Singles

Mew2King 45
Jman 35
Teh_Spamerer 25
Scar 15
Eggm 12
Reno 12
DJ Nintendo 10
Linguini 10
CopyCat 8
Heart Break Kid 8
Teczero 8
Vanz 8
Alukard 4
BrawlLover 4
Phish-It 4
Velocity 4
Awsmsean 2
DC Scribz 2
Gmoney 2
Hax 2
Oorah 2
Pakman 2
RyanK 2
UltimaScout 2
Ceon 1
Dot Eater 1
Eazy 1
Javier 1
Kwan 1
N64 1
Triad 1
Zack 1
Aesir 0
Arcturus 0
Chaos 0
ChiboSempai 0
DeathKnight 0
Epic 0
J122 0
JFox 0
Kite 0
Matt L 0
Milos 0
Old Man Finnegan 0
Ritz 0
SK47 0
Stric9 0
Swords 0
Trademark 0
Tru 0
Tyrant 0
Xell 0

Doubles

Mew2King 45
Cactuar 45
Jman 35
Eggm 35
Teh_Spamerer 25
DoYoung 25
Teczero 15
Linguini 15
Heart Break Kid 12
Reno 12
Dionis 12
Alukard 12
CopyCat 10
Phish-It 10
Pakman 10
Scar 10
Oorah 6
DC Scribz 6
Gmoney 6
RyanK 6
DJNintendo 6
Zro 6
Matt L 6
Javier 6
Vanz 2
JFox 2
Kwan 2
N64 2
Dot Eater 2
Velocity 2
UltimaScout 2
SK47 2
J122 0
DeathKnight 0
Triad 0
BrawlLover 0
Old Man Finnegan 0
Tyrant 0
Ritz 0
Milos 0
Arcturus 0
Ceon 0
Xell 0
Epic 0



Singles Excel Sheet
Doubles Excel Sheet

 

[Alukard]

yayyy i got me some puntos =D